I know, but imagine the faces of the people that say next gen will be like this gen Wii vs PS3/360.
Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
I know, but imagine the faces of the people that say next gen will be like this gen Wii vs PS3/360.
Proelite
Member
So many faces.
Thing is I can see someone like MS doing something like this:
- Uber powerful console that makes our gonads explode just turning it on
- Charge us $450-$500 for all the bells and whistles
- Have an optional $2-300 version with subscription model for a couple of years
That way the core nutters like us will go "Fuck yeah, $450 is nothing for that baby!" and the more casual/mainstream consumer (who will want it for the all in one media system) will go "Oh yeah, I can afford that"
And it all ends up with Wii U looking like a pocket calculator in comparison. Sony just bleeds money again and eventually gives up the console business.
Either way I think there's still going to be a lot of perturbed faces when we see what each system can actually do, graphics wise.
People are expecting too much from the next gen of consoles imo.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
MS will probably offset the Xbox Next by making the subscription model more standard than it is now. If I had the option of paying 99 a year for my Xbox + Xbox Live for 6 years I wouldve done it in 2006.
crazy monkey
Banned
600 bums lol
Thing is I can see someone like MS doing something like this:
- Uber powerful console that makes our gonads explode just turning it on
- Charge us $450-$500 for all the bells and whistles
- Have an optional $2-300 version with subscription model for a couple of years
That way the core nutters like us will go "Fuck yeah, $450 is nothing for that baby!" and the more casual/mainstream consumer (who will want it for the all in one media system) will go "Oh yeah, I can afford that"
And it all ends up with Wii U looking like a pocket calculator in comparison. Sony just bleeds money again and eventually gives up the console business.
Totally possible, agreed. I keep forgetting about the subscription route.
I really don't think I'd buy one this time round though. That hypothetical gonad-exploding uber-console is going to consume more electricity than Zeus' beard trimmer. I'm just not down with that anymore. (except for my monolithic PC; that could run on Polar Bear tears for all I care)
Bearded Dudebro
Member
I'd do it now as long as they provide you with a replacement if your console stops working, kind of like the cable company, since you're locked in a contract with them.
bgassassin
Member
Mmmmm... nah. Most, if not all, of the ones thinking E6760 aren't even that familiar with it. And I base that assessment on other boards besides this one.
But IGN is the only one that's ever proposed a "weak" GPU in Xbox 3 though.
B3D. And even then I said I needed to know more before making any conclusions.
XtremeXpider
Member
Any possibility of seeing an "APU+GPU" configuration?
what about that leaked pdf saying 4-6 better than 360?
XtremeXpider
Member
Really very old doc.
oh,how old was it exactly?
XtremeXpider
Member
Looks like a 2010 doc.
bgassassin
Member
If we do, I don't see any performance gain from that. To me it would be like some have said where the GPU in the APU would be used for video applications and the like.
As spider already said that one is from 2010, but even then that one seemed to indicate it still would have had a little more raw power compared to what I'm expecting from GPU7. Should have added the context about being in comparison to Wii U in the other post.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I'm expecting next gen console performance to be roughly on par with 2013 budget gaming PCs. Not sure if that's overly optimistic or not.
I also suspect that what's in the Wii U isn't as important as the clock speeds they have it running at. Heat dissipation had to be a concern. That is a tiny console.
OK I must have missed that and it must have been a recent change for you because just this (last?) week you were still going 600ish GFLOPS. What has made you think this might have changed? <goes back to B3D>
bgassassin
Member
Haha. We're talking about Xbox 3.
superchunk
Member
But, why not just get the pro model?
Nintendoland, gamepad charging stands, and the digital discount along make up the extra $50, let alone it also comes with the 32GB internal which will be much faster as well.
GET THAT TALK OUT OF THE WII U THREAD!
It's possible he doesn't want NintendoLand and/or wants white. I've ummed and ahhed about it too because everyone says black is a fingerprint magnet, but if I add up White + NintendoLand (I think my kids and family will enjoy it) and throw in a 32GB SD, it's about the same as buying separately. Then I also get stands (Not a major) and 10% rebate.
XtremeXpider
Member
I was thinking about GPGPU, physics (like Physx) on the APU and not GPU.
But well, as AzaK said, this thread is for Wii U
I'm measuring my expectations in old fashioned sayings and proverbs:
- CPU clock higher than the mountains they face
- More RAM than you can shake a stick at
- Too many FLOPS (which can spoil the broth)
- At least one gpu (which is worth two in the bush)
And if this doesn't please everyone? Well, an ass in Germany is a professor in Rome.
Projectjustice
Banned
shinra-bansho
Member
Microsoft released a console in 2005 for $300 that will play Assassin's Creed III this year and games that come out in 2013.
I'm really not sure where this idea that gets perpetuated comes from that they can't release a powerful technological advancement at a reasonable price and achieve good return on investment.
I'm really not sure where this idea that gets perpetuated comes from that they can't release a powerful technological advancement at a reasonable price and achieve good return on investment.
I certainly don't have that idea. I just don't think talking about 2-3 TFLOPS is sensible. Could be wrong of course.
And, diminishing returns yadda yadda....
Probably from the fact MS bleed money for years.
slade
Member
A fool and his money.....
XtremeXpider
Member
2-3tflops are not impossible, and maybe they (MS) are using some new kind of memory:
HMC = Hybrid Memory Cube
shinra-bansho
Member
I think current speculation places them at 1.5-2 TFLOPS.
It's not that I don't believe in diminishing returns, it's that I don't think we've hit that plateau yet. I still expect "Wow." moments.
Meanwhile, it's interesting what exactly happens if and when that plateau is hit.
Does Nintendo shoehorn in a new control scheme every generation? My general impression is that the traditional market didn't particularly care for motion control and won't particularly care for a touchscreen; while the expanded audience is incredibly fickle.
Loss-leading for an overall profitable venture. That and XBOX was bundled in a division with multiple tremendous moneysinks including Microsoft KIN and Zune, which obscure what degree of loss the 360 was actually making.
addyb
Member
Even in the unlikely event the wii u fails i still applaud Nintendo for trying to be different and offering new gaming experiences with the gamepad controller. Dont get me wrong i love my PS3 and 360 but i know full well the PS4/720 are just going to give me more of the same games....just in 1080P!! which is all well and good but ive been having that experience via my pc for sometime now.
Touch screens are both well established and popular pretty much everywhere nowadays in consumer electronics. You call the Casual market fickle, but Nintendo doesn't solely rely on them, the Wii in the US had nearly as high of an attach rate as the PS3, are PS3 gamers fickle too? 1.5-2 TFLOPS, so between 2.5 and 3.5x stronger than what wii-U is rumored to have? Ports will most likely be very possible in most cases then, whether or not the pub decides to or not is another story.
Keep in mind that MS is likely to bundle next gen kinect wtih every single system, and if they do they will have to be a bit conservative with the innards to keep the price under control. Wow moments, sure, but I doubt they will be like wow i'm going from MGS2 to MGS4 level, or anything like that.
Wasn't Nintendo doing some sort of memory cube R&D years and years ago?
My concern with Nintendo's obsession over new control schemes is that we end up losing really good ones. We lost the regular controller with the Wii Remote, even though it was great for what it did. If the GamePad proves awesome with it's dual screens, will we lose that? I hope not.
Thing is, are they actually in the black now after all these years? I know they're making profit now but when we look overall are they?
Apophis2036
Banned
I think people have to be realistic regarding Wii U.
I would expect a 2Ghz CPU and a 500GFLOP GPU, if it's any better than that then fantastic, when you are trying to sell a console for a profit at $300 while keeping the tech inside such a small and low powered box it's never going to be an astounding visual leap over this gen imo, esp when you factor in the extra $30 - $40 the tablet controller is costing to make.
Nintendo games will look great and for me at least that is all that matters.
Im really surprised to be reading that PS4 is 'rumoured' to have a more powerful GPU than the 720, esp considering Sony's financial state.
Last rumours i heard on here were -
PS4 -
AMD Jaguar CPU.
2GB Ram (Dev's pushing for 4GB).
1.8TFLOP GPU.
720 -
AMD Jaguar CPU.
4-6 GB Ram (More Ram for possible Windows 8 integration).
1.5 TFLOP GPU.
Has anyone heard whether Sony and MS's next consoles will be GPGPU based systems ? because if they are not then the Wii U's CPU could prove to be a large problem when porting next gen multiplatform games.
I would expect a 2Ghz CPU and a 500GFLOP GPU, if it's any better than that then fantastic, when you are trying to sell a console for a profit at $300 while keeping the tech inside such a small and low powered box it's never going to be an astounding visual leap over this gen imo, esp when you factor in the extra $30 - $40 the tablet controller is costing to make.
Nintendo games will look great and for me at least that is all that matters.
Im really surprised to be reading that PS4 is 'rumoured' to have a more powerful GPU than the 720, esp considering Sony's financial state.
Last rumours i heard on here were -
PS4 -
AMD Jaguar CPU.
2GB Ram (Dev's pushing for 4GB).
1.8TFLOP GPU.
720 -
AMD Jaguar CPU.
4-6 GB Ram (More Ram for possible Windows 8 integration).
1.5 TFLOP GPU.
Has anyone heard whether Sony and MS's next consoles will be GPGPU based systems ? because if they are not then the Wii U's CPU could prove to be a large problem when porting next gen multiplatform games.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
A current budget gaming PC is basically a 30 GFlops processor and 1.5 TFLOPS GPU, not that that really means anything. Current gen console ports can run comfortably at that kind of hardware at med/high settings, 1080p/60fps. I would expect the same IQ for straight cross generational ports and 720p/30fps for titles with upgraded graphics.
I heard on GAF that they are using GPGPU's.
shinra-bansho
Member
Publishers will always consolidate around whatever genres the market dictates - whether that be FPS due to the success of CoD and Halo or dance and sport games due to the millions who bought Just Dance and Wii Sports.
I really don't see how that translates to the traditional market seeing it as a necessary feature in traditional games.
A lot of them could be. I don't see why a high attach rate can't be achieved with games targeted towards a casual market or bridging titles with cross-demographic appeal.
I see it as far less likely though that the rise of the iDevice will capture the demographic buying Call of Duty and Halo than it will that buying Deca Sports and Chicken Shoot.
Games will go where publishers believe there is an audience for them sufficient to justify the opportunity-cost of devoting development resources - whatever the differentials between platforms.
The inclusion of Kinect 2.0 as standard and the associated cost is the one thing I see limiting how much Microsoft can devote to it's silicon budget - not the vaunted idea that power and affordability are mutually exclusive.
On the 360 venture, most certainly.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Pretty much what I've been assuming.
The Wii U will be to the current gen consoles as the PS4 and 720 will be to the Wii U.
Which isn't a bad way to look at it but at the moment games are upported, whereas the issue will be can they be downported from 720/PS4 to Wii U?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Definetly.
I'm pretty sure that 2013 will have a couple of games designed with the Wii U in mind but in the processes also downported to the 360/PS4.
I'm sure that'll happen for the Wii U once 720/PS4 comes out, and the question is whether it'll be a case of down ports (from the latter to the former) or up ports (vice versa).
bgassassin
Member
I was thinking about GPGPU, physics (like Physx) on the APU and not GPU.
But well, as AzaK said, this thread is for Wii U
The APU in this case most likely wouldn't be good enough for something like that.
Fixed.
I guess it depends on the game, and how much the Wii-U really catches on. If it is a huge hit we could see some Wii-U centric development, especially from some mid sized and smaller publishers that see the financial benefit of making a Wii-U game based on upgraded x360/ps4 engines than investing in ground up development on the other two. AAA Western games will probably be downported if they end up on the Wii-U though, that much is pretty certain, these studios have been talking up the graphics arms race for too long for their customers to accept a game whose graphics lag behind the other big games made ground up for PS420.
snowdog1971
Banned
Sorry if old news, but IGN have details of Darksiders 2 on the U, I'm a poet, and don't I know it lol.
That extra content explains the 5 hours bonus content shown on the banner on the cover.
Hope this sells a shitload because Vigil appear to have put some real effort into this.
Day one for me, I loved the first one.
That extra content explains the 5 hours bonus content shown on the banner on the cover.
Hope this sells a shitload because Vigil appear to have put some real effort into this.
Day one for me, I loved the first one.
lostinblue
Banned
^ I want a collectors edition or I'm gonna sway towards the X360 ver.
snowdog1971
Banned
Just having the inventory and stuff available without pausing the game is enough to make it a game I'm getting on day one before I start thinking about the DLC and 5 hours worth of extra content. There isn't a GOTY Edition for the 360 yet, is there..?
For those who have contacts with Wii U development kits can you answer the following questions:
Is the Wii U's 2GB of ram unified like that of the Xbox 360s?
In regards to the Wii U's CPU, does it outperform the Xbox 360 and PS3's counter parts at tasks which don't require high flotation point aka APU/SMID routines?
Is it possible that one reason Nintendo have not provided clock speeds for the hardware because they may still be adjusting and tweaking the console? I know Nintendo very late in the Gamecube's development did a similar thing. Could Nintendo still be testing thermal and TDP characteristics as well as over all performance?
Are the developers happy with the power and capabilities of the Wii U. Do they believe they could make games on this hardware which clearly would surprass the visual capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3?
Nintendo and its hardware partners appear to have invested significant time and financial resources into engineering the Wii U to be as small and have the lowest TDP as possible. Is it possible its deploying architecture and technology such as stacked and 3D chips?
Does the Wii U's RAM have lower latency and higher bandwidth then the Xbox 360 and PS3? If so roughly how much.
Why does one of the CPU cores have a higher amount of cache then the second? It's clearly a primary core, but what does it offer over the other two?
What kind of data throughput in megabytes per sec are you seeing from the USB2 ports?
How customised does the GPU appear to be vs the R700 architecture? I would have thought Nintendo would use more modern ALU and tesselators given the increased performance per watt.
I'm hedging my bets that Nintendo have used 3D intergrated circuits for the Wii U. Although its a tech that is not mainstream and still in its infancy, the TDP and performance benifits it offers are significant. What are your thoughts on this? TSMC and IBM have both invested into 3D stacking, And TSMC is rumored to be involved in the Wii U..
Is the Wii U's 2GB of ram unified like that of the Xbox 360s?
In regards to the Wii U's CPU, does it outperform the Xbox 360 and PS3's counter parts at tasks which don't require high flotation point aka APU/SMID routines?
Is it possible that one reason Nintendo have not provided clock speeds for the hardware because they may still be adjusting and tweaking the console? I know Nintendo very late in the Gamecube's development did a similar thing. Could Nintendo still be testing thermal and TDP characteristics as well as over all performance?
Are the developers happy with the power and capabilities of the Wii U. Do they believe they could make games on this hardware which clearly would surprass the visual capabilities of the Xbox 360 and PS3?
Nintendo and its hardware partners appear to have invested significant time and financial resources into engineering the Wii U to be as small and have the lowest TDP as possible. Is it possible its deploying architecture and technology such as stacked and 3D chips?
Does the Wii U's RAM have lower latency and higher bandwidth then the Xbox 360 and PS3? If so roughly how much.
Why does one of the CPU cores have a higher amount of cache then the second? It's clearly a primary core, but what does it offer over the other two?
What kind of data throughput in megabytes per sec are you seeing from the USB2 ports?
How customised does the GPU appear to be vs the R700 architecture? I would have thought Nintendo would use more modern ALU and tesselators given the increased performance per watt.
I'm hedging my bets that Nintendo have used 3D intergrated circuits for the Wii U. Although its a tech that is not mainstream and still in its infancy, the TDP and performance benifits it offers are significant. What are your thoughts on this? TSMC and IBM have both invested into 3D stacking, And TSMC is rumored to be involved in the Wii U..
lostinblue
Banned
It's not about content, it's about tin case, artbook, goodies and the like.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
600 GFLOPS for the Wii U GPU doesn't necessarily mean anything if the performance is similar to a TFLOP GPU does it?
My point is that the Wii U is Nintendo's next-gen sequel to the Gamecube in terms of power/performance. Competitive yet when taken advantage of it's custom features can make it seem like a powerhouse.
My point is that the Wii U is Nintendo's next-gen sequel to the Gamecube in terms of power/performance. Competitive yet when taken advantage of it's custom features can make it seem like a powerhouse.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
And I say... in the right hands even a 360 can sing beautifully.
I don't think WiiU is that much more powerful than a 360. I also don't think that matters in the slightest to more than a few. This forum just tends to be a very vocal minority. But we should know that anyway.
Wii's, PS2's, PS1, SNES, NES. None of those consoles can point to visual acuity as the reason for their success. One was just a hell of a lot weaker than some thought would be acceptable.
If you've got the "hook" it doesn't really matter. This past gen just showed how little importance the market puts on technical excellence.
I think that is a bit much, dont you? I mean, when exactly did Nintendo "shoehorn" in a new control scheme? If you look at the evolution of Nintendo console controllers, nearly all of them have been evolutions to fit the need for that generations games.
Examples
The SNES controller added more buttons. I think we can all agree there was a need for console controller with more than 3 buttons(MegaDrive).
The N64 controller primarily added an analog stick. This again was an obvious need for that generation, not to mention analog sticks on controllers have been on every new console since.
The Gamecube controller- basically just a Nintendo-centric dual analog controller save for the analog L/R triggers.
The Wii is the obvious move to a new controller rather than just an evolution/improvement of previous controllers.
The Wii U controller- more or less an evolution to traditional dual analog style controllers. It's not even a new concept. The Dreamcast put a screen in the middle of your controller 14 years ago. Nintendo is just taking advantage of current technology to make better use of the idea. Had the technology been there, you can guarantee Sega would have done the exact same thing with the screen.
I dont really get why some people seem perturbed by a screen in the middle of the controller. This has been an evolution I've been dreaming about since I was a little kid. It just seems natural to me that this is where controllers were headed.
Sorry to get off topic....