DaSorcerer7
Member
Seems so, I was hoping Arkham would return to clear up some stuff.
Rumor: Wii U final specs
- Thread starter EatChildren
- Start date
Seems so, I was hoping Arkham would return to clear up some stuff.
I was about to say 60MB/s is unrealistic. Generally with USB you're more or less looking at half of the theoretical bandwidth, but there's other factors like drivers and hardware implementation that can change the real world performance. Like OS X used to suck with USB 2.0 drive performance and got like 15MB/s when Windows was getting around 30MB/s, but one of the updates later on fixed that, and I think later hardware revisions (past the early USB 2.0 models) had a little better performance as well.
And for reference I have some old text files from when I installed my current SSD and 1TB (2.5") drives, I did some benchmarks with a USB dock before sticking them in (albeit not averaged out so there's some weirdness):
Code:
SSD USB
Sequential
Uncached Write 29.94 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 24.83 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 7.15 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 33.72 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random
Uncached Write 7.97 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 26.72 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 5.50 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 32.32 MB/sec [256K blocks]
SSD SATA (3Gbps drive, not the fastest one either obviously)
Sequential
Uncached Write 212.17 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 175.94 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 29.19 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 194.71 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random
Uncached Write 88.25 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 182.78 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 12.76 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 149.14 MB/sec [256K blocks]
HDD USB
Sequential
Uncached Write 30.89 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 28.82 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 7.28 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 33.64 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random
Uncached Write 2.02 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 30.11 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 0.48 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 17.03 MB/sec [256K blocks]
HDD SATA (keep in mind it's a 2.5" drive)
Sequential
Uncached Write 46.40 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 81.78 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 35.68 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 95.31 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random
Uncached Write 1.82 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 34.71 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 0.47 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 23.28 MB/sec [256K blocks]If it exists, the supposed 512MB SLC might be able to be used as a big ass disk buffer/cache. Not that it'd be super fast but it'd be fast enough to help out the usual storage media.
And yeah I wouldn't expect super fast speeds from the 8-32GB on board. It'd probably be similar to what you'd get on an iPhone or something, like it might not even be able to saturate USB 2.0.
Isn't the 512MB used strictly for OS install ? Well there could be a file reserved space for some kind of buffer/pagefile.
I really like the idea that nintendo doesn't call it DLC, or any other cooky hype word, it calls it simply "add-on content", in advertisments. They know it it's a whole new structure and a business model 100 times friendlier to the consumer and it won't saturate the games with low-quality low-effort content effecting the experience negatively overall, games which have their gameplay built around getting extra content to get the full experience are not the kind of games I will ever play.
Trying to be different in all aspets of the industry is the biggest advantage nintnedo has had.
All other philosophy influences can hopefully revive the stagnant western industry away from premiumized crappy X360-style DEE-EL-SEE-very-annoying-term-feels-like-a-13-old-would-though-it-up 3-maps for 15$.
Trying to be different in all aspets of the industry is the biggest advantage nintnedo has had.
All other philosophy influences can hopefully revive the stagnant western industry away from premiumized crappy X360-style DEE-EL-SEE-very-annoying-term-feels-like-a-13-old-would-though-it-up 3-maps for 15$.
KojiKnight
Member
Back on the topic of how/when we'll know the full Wii U specs... This is how it'll likely go.
Step 1: Opening the Wii U. You can be sure not every part is going to be custom. Serial numbers for things like the flash RAM and actual RAM will likely be stock parts and those WILL be just as simple as googling to get our answers on those. Probably the same for less interesting parts too like bluetooth module/wifi adapter/etc.
Step 2: The tear down. A couple days-weeks after release we'll have a more technical tear down by companies that specialize in it. They'll be full on desoldering/dissecting chips and some of the information they give will be released. We might get SOME info from the graphics and CPU here. You can't get speed/feature support/shader count directly from this, but you may (if they decide to release it) get voltage readings for each component that will help infer, pin layouts, etc
Step 3: RAM/chip dump. Anywhere from a few weeks to a few years is when you can start getting more interesting information. Once a full RAM dump can be had of the system you can start figuring out how the system actually works... but this takes a long time to analyze, especially if there is any sort of protected or encrypted portion of memory (there will be). At the same time other chips will be analyzed/dumped as well such as the FLASH chips, but they'll likely be less interesting at first since they will assuredly be encrypted per-system with their keys also encrypted.
Step 4: Finding and running exploited code. Once you, eventually, figure out how the system does what it does and how it does it, that's when you can start looking for exploitable points. This is another step that could happen in either a short time (like on the Wii where the Trucha exploit was discovered) or years (like on the PS3 where it took awhile to find out Sony didn't properly randomize their codes, and their chain of trust had several big flaws). Once you have an exploit and you can start running code, THAT is when you can basically start "asking" the system about itself (more like running a chain of tests and seeing what the results are).
Step 5: Reverse engineering. While you could say steps 3 and 4 are part of that process, it's here that you can start testing code and writing your own code to mimic the responses you get back. This will eventually get you the super low-level info you need to do things like write an emulator, etc.
Only by that point are you going to have exact details latency between components and exact mhz/RAM timings/etc...
Or, of course, we could get a confirmed internal design document leak from Nintendo... that would be nice
Step 1: Opening the Wii U. You can be sure not every part is going to be custom. Serial numbers for things like the flash RAM and actual RAM will likely be stock parts and those WILL be just as simple as googling to get our answers on those. Probably the same for less interesting parts too like bluetooth module/wifi adapter/etc.
Step 2: The tear down. A couple days-weeks after release we'll have a more technical tear down by companies that specialize in it. They'll be full on desoldering/dissecting chips and some of the information they give will be released. We might get SOME info from the graphics and CPU here. You can't get speed/feature support/shader count directly from this, but you may (if they decide to release it) get voltage readings for each component that will help infer, pin layouts, etc
Step 3: RAM/chip dump. Anywhere from a few weeks to a few years is when you can start getting more interesting information. Once a full RAM dump can be had of the system you can start figuring out how the system actually works... but this takes a long time to analyze, especially if there is any sort of protected or encrypted portion of memory (there will be). At the same time other chips will be analyzed/dumped as well such as the FLASH chips, but they'll likely be less interesting at first since they will assuredly be encrypted per-system with their keys also encrypted.
Step 4: Finding and running exploited code. Once you, eventually, figure out how the system does what it does and how it does it, that's when you can start looking for exploitable points. This is another step that could happen in either a short time (like on the Wii where the Trucha exploit was discovered) or years (like on the PS3 where it took awhile to find out Sony didn't properly randomize their codes, and their chain of trust had several big flaws). Once you have an exploit and you can start running code, THAT is when you can basically start "asking" the system about itself (more like running a chain of tests and seeing what the results are).
Step 5: Reverse engineering. While you could say steps 3 and 4 are part of that process, it's here that you can start testing code and writing your own code to mimic the responses you get back. This will eventually get you the super low-level info you need to do things like write an emulator, etc.
Only by that point are you going to have exact details latency between components and exact mhz/RAM timings/etc...
Or, of course, we could get a confirmed internal design document leak from Nintendo... that would be nice
SLIGHT TANGENT from the previous page about the 360 being $450 or less and being "a beast" --for a console.
totally doable for a computer today to be a "relative" beast. again this is just pricing a full computer - no mouse, keyboard or monitor. but a computer that is reasonably strong- now- for a discount price
1. using amd chips
2. the new trinity apu
3. with kinect
now this is all Retail pricing but a complete computer setup.
450-50 for kinect, which means we can spend 400 for a "console" retail.
amd a10-5800 -~122 retail(msrp)- built in 7660 video card
mobo 55
now we are @177+-
223 left
ram pc1866 ddr3- 8 gig- 46
hdd 500gig - 70
12xbluray 55
171 left 52 dollars
case 50
total price with kinect- RETAIL COMPUTER- $448
as we can see above- it is doable.
that said, i'm am getting the wiiu and will love it i bet
.
my kids want skylanders giants, and CoD:Blops2-Rayman Legends- so far.
totally doable for a computer today to be a "relative" beast. again this is just pricing a full computer - no mouse, keyboard or monitor. but a computer that is reasonably strong- now- for a discount price
1. using amd chips
2. the new trinity apu
3. with kinect
now this is all Retail pricing but a complete computer setup.
450-50 for kinect, which means we can spend 400 for a "console" retail.
amd a10-5800 -~122 retail(msrp)- built in 7660 video card
mobo 55
now we are @177+-
223 left
ram pc1866 ddr3- 8 gig- 46
hdd 500gig - 70
12xbluray 55
171 left 52 dollars
case 50
total price with kinect- RETAIL COMPUTER- $448
as we can see above- it is doable.
that said, i'm am getting the wiiu and will love it i bet
.my kids want skylanders giants, and CoD:Blops2-Rayman Legends- so far.
SLIGHT TANGENT from the previous page about the 360 being $450 or less and being "a beast" --for a console.
totally doable for a computer today to be a "relative" beast. again this is just pricing a full computer - no mouse, keyboard or monitor. but a computer that is reasonably strong- now- for a discount price
1. using amd chips
2. the new trinity apu
3. with kinect
now this is all Retail pricing but a complete computer setup.
450-50 for kinect, which means we can spend 400 for a "console" retail.
amd a10-5800 -~122 retail(msrp)- built in 7660 video card
mobo 55
now we are @177+-
223 left
ram pc1866 ddr3- 8 gig- 46
hdd 500gig - 70
12xbluray 55
171 left 52 dollars
case 50
total price with kinect- RETAIL COMPUTER- $448
as we can see above- it is doable.
that said, i'm am getting the wiiu and will love it i bet
my kids want skylanders giants, and CoD:Blops2-Rayman Legends- so far.
Well, I certainly applaud your effort with this post. But unfortunately it does not quite work that way with consoles. First off, these CPUs and GPUs are highly customized so using retail chips (no matter how equivalent they may or may not be) is not all that accurate. Secondly, console RAM is much different and far more expensive than PC RAM. I know that doesn't make sense, but it makes a difference. Perhaps some of the more experienced posters here can explain this far better than I could even try to. Thirdly, I have no idea what a console case costs, but you cannot take a PC case and use it as a valid comparison. A console case has to find a way to keep the components cool (and keeping a 7660 cool would be costly), all the while being smaller than a PC case and not sounding like a Boeing. Additionally, you did not include a controller and you also have to factor in things like packaging, shipping and other supply chain logistics.
Overall though, I can see you put some thought and work into this, instead of people who scream "I can get 24GB of RAM off of newegg for like $10, lol Nintendo!", so thanks for posting it.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yes but a console manufacturer doesn't have to do that do they. They could just use off the shelf parts. Bought in huge volume, manufactured in a thermally efficient case with a custom boot prom and it would still be a pretty impressive console.
Wasn't the original Xbox essentially that. A PC in a custom case.
And it was horribly inefficient and bottlenecked. I fail to see your point. Plus MS lost billions on it, so I do not really think that is a road anyone should go down again.
Consoles use the same types of RAM as are used in desktop PCs - but chips designed for graphics card memory (which are more expensive than regular RAM intended for regular system memory).
That was it, thank you. I am having some trouble with gall stones atm, so my brain is not working very well.
Indeed, I wonder what 8GB of GDDR5 would cost :O
Five Hundred Ninety Nine US Dollars.
Hey gaf. I've been wondering and discussing whether or not one may be able to watch Netflix on the TV while playing a game on the controller, all being done through the Wii U.
We're pretty sure you can utilize the Internet while playing a game (chat, browser, miiverse) so access is there.
I assume the browser can stream video, and video chat is known, so streaming video is there (while playing a game?)
Netflix is part of Wii TVii, so it may be an accessible part of the OS.
And there's more than enough OS memory, it seems... But will it require dedicated processing power?
Why can't it happen?
We're pretty sure you can utilize the Internet while playing a game (chat, browser, miiverse) so access is there.
I assume the browser can stream video, and video chat is known, so streaming video is there (while playing a game?)
Netflix is part of Wii TVii, so it may be an accessible part of the OS.
And there's more than enough OS memory, it seems... But will it require dedicated processing power?
Why can't it happen?
I just think because Nintendo decided not to do it. It would steal "grunt" from the main game and would require some form of multitasking OS which might not be in Wii U.
I think it's an oversight to be honest. If they are expecting people to use the system for media, they need to expect them to also want to do other things as well. I mean, after all their whole thing is about the two-screen strategy.
Shin Johnpv
Member
XDR found in the PS3 has never been used in a desktop PC. Plus I don't think the 1tsram of the GC and Wii have ever found their ways into a desktop system. Not all of it is the same.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
It still produced some of the best looking games of its generation and did the job for MS in terms of building a foundation of what was to come.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
More losses?
Kidding aside, xbox was the most non-console device that ever got released in the console space.
And it could have produced even better looking games with less money lost if it wasn't such a poorly designed pile of crap. Imagine what it could have done if it had a better CPU and better memory bandwidth. The single memory pool was a great idea, but it was gimped by a shoddy bus. Plus, it had a freaking celeron in it.
Can you imagine what the Gamecube engineers could have done with the Xbox's budget?
XDR was never adopted for desktop systems because Rambus failed with all their efforts to appeal to pc manufacturers and consumers. They certainly tried to get their product into computers all around the world.
Pseydostatic RAM like 1T-SRAM, CellularRAM and PSiRAM was incorporated in handsets all around the world.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
The point still stands. You can use off the shelf parts to build a gaming console.
I'd still prefer that then some of the more esoteric designs we have today.
ARGH! No OS! NO OS!450-50 for kinect, which means we can spend 400 for a "console" retail.
amd a10-5800 -~122 retail(msrp)- built in 7660 video card
mobo 55
now we are @177+-
223 left
ram pc1866 ddr3- 8 gig- 46
hdd 500gig - 70
12xbluray 55
171 left 52 dollars
case 50
total price with kinect- RETAIL COMPUTER- $448
as we can see above- it is doable.
that said, i'm am getting the wiiu and will love it i bet
my kids want skylanders giants, and CoD:Blops2-Rayman Legends- so far.
Quite a bit. This is one problem with the pricing of that PC. Games use graphics card RAM for some stuff and desktop RAM for other stuff. If it used all desktop RAM, games would probably run like crap. The increase in price is likely offset by the fact that an order for tens of millions of parts will net you a pretty significant discount though.
I nearly died from gall stones a few years back, so hope that all works out ok. When they're bad, it's literally the worst pain you will ever feel. Kept passing out non stop for a whole day. Not fun.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Rambus being a failure or not doesn't change the fact that XDR was never implemented in desktop systems, and a handset is not a desktop system.
To say it's all the same as what's in a desktop PC system is disingenuous and wrong. They're still different types of ram, with different pricing structures than what shows up in desktop PCs.
I tried to say that while future consoles are certainly going to use memory that is also found in current desktop systems, they are going to go for graphics memory, which isn't purchasable by the end-user - so (unless Sony and MS are going for a split pool) comparisons to RAM sticks that are found at retail don't mean much.
Whatever fills your twinkie man.
Mine is nowhere near that bad, glad it turned out OK for you.
ARGH! No OS! NO OS!
Ubuntu is FREE ;-)
I'm not using it since all that Unity crap started
Well this reads as if Nintendo has definitely made that decision. As far as I know it's still up in the air as far as announced features go. What I'm wondering is if there is anything holding it back, on the tech side. Is it feasibly possible?
I'll try and find the link, but it's not up in the air, they have stated that you can't watch a movie via Wii U Netflix and game at the same time.
Edit: Here it is
SpoonyBard
Banned
It wouldn't really make sense to make that possible for full Wii U games, that are made to use the system resources fully. Maybe for Virtual Console games...
specialguy
Banned
It wasn't "bottlenecked" or inefficient, that I know of. It was also way more powerful than any other console of that gen, while we're at it.
MS lost money on it because they were stupid and Intel and Nvidia owned the CPU and GPU IP. So basically MS was at their mercy on pricing (why MS didn't realize this would happen before the fact is another story). You might remember a story back then about MS and Nvidia going through an arbitration battle over pricing at one point.
This is also why once MS cut ties with Xbox in 2005, they really buried the thing ASAP. At that point they had realized it was forever a hardware money pit. They simply stopped manufacturing them.
With 360 MS owns all the IP, they can go fab it wherever they want, prices fall, just like every other non-Xbox console in history.
So yeah they lost billions on it, but not necessarily for the reasons you claim.
Um, all of them?
Trevelyan9999
Banned
As expected, the closer to the Wii U launch the less interested people are in the specs of this thing. The games are what is on everyone's mind since September 13th.....
He was refering to cyberheater's suggestion of using off-the-shelf parts, existing components designed and owned by other manufacturers... which, as you've pointed out, is the reason why MS lost tons of money last generation.
specialguy
Banned
actually seems like neogaf hype is kind of dying away for the thing for me *shrug*. no more wild, fast moving official wii u speculation threads for example.
on the greater forum it seems like only maybe 1 in 10 or 20 threads on page 1 is about the wii u or wii u software at any time.
i mean it'll still be hyped dont get me wrong, but some spark seems missing...a lack of hardware power imo.
I do expect a uptick in hype as we get nearer and into launch dont get me wrong, that's inevitable. But lately it seems to be in a lull.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
lightchris
Member
There are (low end) cards on PC which use DDR3, for example GeForce GT 640s or some Radeon 7750s. Of course you can't clock it as high as GDDR5 and it isn't enough for faster GPUs. But, depending on the bandwidth needs of game, it isn't automatically crappy. For Witcher 2, the GDDR5 version of the 7750 is only 10% faster.
For Wii U, DDR3 might be enough for the whole system (and then we have eDRAM..).
Btw., prices for cards with 2 GB GDDR5 start at 110. For the whole card. So that's the upper bound of what it could cost (should be a lot less of course).
I think it's more that people have decided whether or not they've 'seen enough' and now there's very little left to discuss. Barring some concrete info, that is.
I think he's right. There's no 'Killzone GIFs' to stir up hype. It's not like people are drooling over screenshots of incredible looking Wii-U games eagerly anticipating the launch.
Obviously this is only applicable to an enthusiast forum and has no bearing on the hype of the wider audience.
I think it's a combination of a number of things.
We know what titles are coming at launch
None of them are graphical showcases even though we know the machine is pretty grunty
There's been no announcement of a big hitter 1st party coming in 2013
There's lots of third party games we want but don't know if they are coming
Nintendo is keeping the lid on MiiVerse the OS and online still
There's been no ads on TV
I know you mention power because that's been your schtick since forever, but it's not that, it's hype in general is relatively low. Nothing like the E3 build ups we had in the WUSTS.
perfectchaos007
Member
I have definitely noticed a lack of hype for the WiiU, and the small bump in graphics compared to PS360 have nothing to do with it. Bottom line, is people simply aren't excited for a new Nintendo console. The Wii hype in 2006 was insane. Everyone was talking about it at the highschool lunch tables, forums were a buzz, parents knew what it was long before launch. The Wii U isn't getting that. Why? Well, I think it boils down to innovation. Everyone knew that the Wii would have last gen graphics compared to the 360 and PS3, but no one really cared. A revolution was coming. Everyone was so hyped to get their hands on 1:1 (lol retrospect) motion control gaming. The innovation of the Wii was what had everyone buzzing.
Wii U is taking that same path by having near current gen graphics coupled with a new innovative way to play. What's different this time around is that fewer people are seeing this type of control as revolutionary as motion controls were in 2006.
Nintendo was hoping that the gamer public would see WiiU and start the WOM advertising just like they all did for Wii, but that hasn't happened. The "WOW" factor that the WiiU has generated is substantially lower than the Wii was in 2006. I think we can all sense that. I think the system will sell very well in the early going just like any other new system, but I don't think the system will be nearly sold out for the first 3 years like the Wii was unless Nintendo releases all their flagship titles early and often along with some killer 3rd party offerings. Either that, or Nintendo will have to show off the WiiU in a better way than Nintendo Land. WiiSports was amazing, and I was so anxious to give it a try back in 2006...Nintendo Land not so much
Wii U is taking that same path by having near current gen graphics coupled with a new innovative way to play. What's different this time around is that fewer people are seeing this type of control as revolutionary as motion controls were in 2006.
Nintendo was hoping that the gamer public would see WiiU and start the WOM advertising just like they all did for Wii, but that hasn't happened. The "WOW" factor that the WiiU has generated is substantially lower than the Wii was in 2006. I think we can all sense that. I think the system will sell very well in the early going just like any other new system, but I don't think the system will be nearly sold out for the first 3 years like the Wii was unless Nintendo releases all their flagship titles early and often along with some killer 3rd party offerings. Either that, or Nintendo will have to show off the WiiU in a better way than Nintendo Land. WiiSports was amazing, and I was so anxious to give it a try back in 2006...Nintendo Land not so much
That's why i was dying to get registered asap, some issues prolonged it past E3 2012. It stoked me one day just there it was the email.
For me personally also, the hype goes away, but still im totally looking forward when this gets opened, that pressure will be gone but it will just get more relaxed an a lot more interesting.
I want to see some wireless external antenna mods for the GamePad controller range extensions.
frankie_baby
Member
Are you living under a rock or something? Yeah the hype ain't at wii levels but so what nothing ever has been or will be, it really was that insane, wii u hype though is there and its pretty huge I've heard many people (big time gamers and otherwise) talk excitedly about getting a wiiu and as we all know in america preorders are selling out everywhere
Yeah there's a lack of hype
Chû Totoro
Member
Yeah sold out on almost every retailer two months before launch is "no hype"...
perfectchaos007
Member
Since pre-orders existed at retailers I can't remember a time when a console wasn't sold out well before launch. PS3's were going for over $1000 on ebay for its first couple of months because they were sold out everywhere. The system will be sold out from launch until well after Christmas. That's a given. What it does after that of course is speculation, and depending on how well the new innovation is received will determine its success going into Holiday 2013. Nintendo still has some work to do to "wow" everyone about WiiU like they did with Wii, fortunately for them they still have time.
This is spot on. As strange as it may sound, but Nintendo took the safe route with WiiU. And I don't think that they quite understood the strengths of their individual products, just trying mashing it all together in one product.
frankie_baby
Member
Er no, ps3 was not going for over $1000 on eBay for months after launch, yeah it sold out day 1 but stock was plentiful after that, some Sony exec was going round saying he'd give people $1200 if they could find one on shelves which was then followed by pics of stacks of the things in shops everywhere
SpoonyBard
Banned
Yeah, PS2 was sold out at first, PS3, nope.
frankie_baby
Member
How do you mean?
WiiU is a much more down-to-earth and mainstream solution. People that are claiming it is revolutionary or claiming Nintendo thinks it is revolutionary are simply mistaken. As a result, the hardware itself is less outspoken. The strength of WiiU as a result will depend much more on the software. Remember the Wii TGS controller reveal and the video. You could see NOTHING(no game footage) but people with a controller, working on nothing but imagination. Use it as a gun, use it as a (light)sabre, use it as a dentist drill, as a tennis racket etc... You didn't have to see any of the software, you could just imagine it. This is completely different for WiiU. Due to nearly a decade of DS games, you know what to expect of a touchscreen controller in dual screen setup. So like i said, it's about the software. And THAT's where Nintendo is dropping the ball this time around. Sure, i'm hyped to play some third party games such as ACIII, but most of the other games (ME3, DSII, Batman...) are "old" ports. Nintendo's own games? Nothing there either (they refuse to talk about anything outside of the launch window). Online infrastructure, has not been outlined. The OS? Miiverse... has been somewhat revealed.
In contrast to Wii, i think people have to experience it to see how GOOD it works (browsing on the controller, playing while watching TV, netflix on the controller, universal tv remote features) on top of the fact that no games have shown off the extra power it is supposedly packing. With the Wii, people had to experience it to find out it didn't really work all that well (the motion controls).
Nintendo doesn't understand the the strengths of their individual products... Say that a couple of times out loud and hear how asinine it sounds.
If you can't imagine gameplay options with a device it's your own problem, people who whine about not seeing any stuff want not imagining it probably don't understand the tech anyways so I could care less for opinions like this, what's the point of whining until it gets done, it will be done great no matter what you do in the mean time, just sit back, relax, it's not worth the nerves to worry about imagining things, it's not worth discussing if you're discussing just to express upset and relieve anger. The console is not even out.