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[JordanN]

Care to be more specific? What exactly is far ahead? Real-time global illumination? Are there dynamic shadows on everything?

The lack of shimmering when it comes to self shadows and shadow maps. The rest is rather cool radiosity effects.

 

[PogiJones]

There are no social or casual or hardcore gamers. There are gamers. That's the only audience that matters, not just the subset who care about power.

I think people are way too enthusiastic about decrying the labels. Yeah, they're not perfect. But the fact is, the labels are helpful, and somewhat accurate, for the most part. For example, there are some middle-aged women that get so into Bejeweled that you'd have to call her a hardcore player of Bejeweled. Yet, if you tell someone Bejeweled is a casual game, people in general know what you're talking about: an easy-to-pick-up game that's a good time-kill between meetings.

A lot of games are blurry, or don't fit well into either category, but when it comes to publishers, "gamers" are NOT "the only audience that matters." Bejeweled will do better on an iPhone than it will on a PS3, because most people play the game casually. Minecraft, as you pointed out, is more of a hardcore game, because people don't just play it casually as much, even if some of the audience would traditionally be classified as casual.

If you don't like the term "hardcore" because it strokes the egos of people who are no better than other people, try enthusiast, or something similar. But the classifications themselves are too useful at the moment to toss out the window and pretend that gamers don't have subsets with different audiences interested in different things.

 

[AzaK]

Good answer, whats the creature on your avatar? Its kind of funny

I guess I was far too conservative with Halo 4's budget.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497152

No way in hell is Zombi U's budget close to this.

 

[Backfoggen]

Care to be more specific? What exactly is far ahead? Real-time global illumination? Are there dynamic shadows on everything?

I think this thread needs more pics. All you see is Kameo, PDZ and Gun screens from time to time, lol.

 

[Stewox]

Wii U isn't going to get that drastic of a change in the coming years. Since it's more or less within this cycle of hardware generation tech wise.

yawn, sigh.

 

[Canis lupus]

It's not going to matter how much more powerful the new Xbox and PS4 are. Gamers have different priorities these days. They're playing Minecraft and Angry Birds instead, and frankly, I don't blame them. Year after year, home console games with their increasingly prettier visuals have only managed to get increasingly stale. Console game sales haven't been in a steady decline because the graphics need an upgrade. It's because the games do. Making games more like CGI movies is only going to make them less like games.

You couldn't be more wrong. Jumping ship from making a €60 game to a €0.50-15 one is not an upgrade. There are different type of gamers. The people who play Angry Birds are not previous gamers who left homeconsole gaming.

 

[Xun]

I bet instead of getting PSP ports like the Wii got, the Wii U will get Vita ports.

I can really see it happening.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Awesome, I'll finally get a chance to play Gravity Rush then.

 

[Canis lupus]

Awesome, I'll finally get a chance to play Gravity Rush then.

SCE Japan Studio.

 

[frankie_baby]

I bet instead of getting PSP ports like the Wii got, the Wii U will get Vita ports.

I can really see it happening.

There won't be any vita games to port to it

 

[BDGAME]

A doubt, what has in that demo that can be considered above the current generation?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

 

[Stewox]

You couldn't be more wrong. Jumping ship from making a €60 game to a €0.50-15 one is not an upgrade. There are different type of gamers. The people who play Angry Birds are not previous gamers who left homeconsole gaming.

Exactly. This is most important point michael pachter has yet to learn. I'am a PC power user + prog. college, i am a hardcore nintendo fan, there is no remote chance i would start playing mobile one day just out of nothing. I rather play nothing. I am a customer who waits for applicable offerings, i do not jump to cheap latest trends every week, i dont play more than 3-4 games per year bc my life sustainability does not depend on daily entertainment fix, for example i would want a kind of game like original crysis, just better and improved, editor enhancements etc, not changing whats not broken, i am willing to pay premium for that.

 

[Alexios]

A doubt, what has in that demo that can be considered above the current generation?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

Pretty much everything, even if it includes tech that's doable right now it's not doable within that context, ie, the given polycount of the scene, the amount of dynamic light sources, etc. At least not in an actual game environment (which this wasn't).

 

[Backfoggen]

A doubt, what has in that demo that can be considered above the current generation?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSXyztq_0uM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=31VNjoPYILw#t=13s
If you want names of techniques, pretty much everything that is listed under DX11 plus some more.

 

[BDGAME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=31VNjoPYILw#t=13s
If you want names of techniques, pretty much everything that is listed under DX11 plus some more.

Thanks. Since Wii U is not a full DirectX 11 machine, that kind of visuals will not be seen on Wii U.

But Wii U is a full DirectX10 like console. Looks what it can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aPvedU7cI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxFd_kNoDoE
Compare DX9 vs DX10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6NCmOgQts0

And Wii U don't stop in DirectX10.x it has some future of Direct X11, no? At least all the futures that Unity 4 use.

Look that way, that first gen of Wii U games don't use all the advantages that new hardware bring over the current gen. Am I right ?

 

[frankie_baby]

Thanks. Since Wii U is not a full DirectX 11 machine, that kind of visuals will not be seen on Wii U.

But Wii U is a full DirectX10 like console. Looks what it can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aPvedU7cI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxFd_kNoDoE
Compare DX9 vs DX10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6NCmOgQts0

And Wii U don't stop in DirectX10.x it has some future of Direct X11, no? At least all the futures that Unity 4 use.

Look that way, that first gen of Wii U games don't use all the advantages that new hardware bring over the current gen. Am I right ?

Direct x is a Microsoft API so wii u doesn't support it at all, as things stand we don't know exactly what the chip will support it "could" be quite possible the wii u GPU supports all features of directx11 but not in the same way directx11 does them

 

[SpoonyBard]

Thanks. Since Wii U is not a full DirectX 11 machine, that kind of visuals will not be seen on Wii U.

But Wii U is a full DirectX10 like console. Looks what it can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7aPvedU7cI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxFd_kNoDoE
Compare DX9 vs DX10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6NCmOgQts0

And Wii U don't stop in DirectX10.x it has some future of Direct X11, no? At least all the futures that Unity 4 use.

Look that way, that first gen of Wii U games don't use all the advantages that new hardware bring over the current gen. Am I right ?

I hate nitpicking as much as anyone, but Wii U will not do any kind of direct-x. It will use Nintendo's own implementation of OpenGL, which looks like is somewhere between DX10.1 and 11 in terms of features. Plus some legacy Wii/GC features, which aren't necessarily very useful any longer...

 

[BDGAME]

Ok, I believe we can stop with that "don't use DX" thing. I know Wii U will not use DX, but DX is a easy way to reffer the futures that and others machines can do, no?

And like I say, that first gen games don't seem to be using that extra potential.

 

[MadeInBeats]

I bet instead of getting PSP ports like the Wii got, the Wii U will get Vita ports.

I can really see it happening.

Already happened. Soon as developers seen how big of a flop the Vita is, they couldn't wait to port them over to Wii U.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

Is there a reason why uncharted 2(2009 non super high budget ps3 game) looks better than any Wii u game ( including the tech demos) this far? How come none of the ports look better than their ps3/360 counterparts. I had Tony hawk American wasteland and gun at 360 launch and they at least ran at a higher frame rate/ resolution with more detailed textures. And they were the definition of a direct port.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Is there a reason why uncharted 2(2009 non super high budget ps3 game) looks better than any Wii u game ( including the tech demos) this far? How come none of the ports look better than their ps3/360 counterparts. I had Tony hawk American wasteland and gun at 360 launch and they at least ran at a higher frame rate/ resolution with more detailed textures. And they were the definition of a direct port.

This is a joke post isn't it?

 

[SpoonyBard]

Ok, I believe we can stop with that "don't use DX" thing. I know Wii U will not use DX, but DX is a easy way to reffer the futures that and others machines can do, no?

And like I say, that first gen games don't seem to be using that extra potential.

DX9 feature game engine running with DX11 feature hw is still a DX9 feature engine... Too bad there's no Rogue Leader or Soul Calibur, er, caliber launch game showing what the hw can really do.

Speaking of Dreamcast, some Dreamcast games were very obvious PS1 ports, and only had improved IQ basically differentiating the two versions. Of course the leap in IQ was huge back then, and we are unlikely to see anyting similar in near future.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

This is a joke post isn't it?

Idk. You tell me.

 

[tkscz]

Ok, I believe we can stop with that "don't use DX" thing. I know Wii U will not use DX, but DX is a easy way to reffer the futures that and others machines can do, no?

And like I say, that first gen games don't seem to be using that extra potential.

Your best bet then is to use openGL. From what's been rumored, the WiiU will use openGL 3.3, which is forwards compatable with some features in openGL 4.0. What we don't know is which features.

 

[frankie_baby]

Ok, I believe we can stop with that "don't use DX" thing. I know Wii U will not use DX, but DX is a easy way to reffer the futures that and others machines can do, no?

And like I say, that first gen games don't seem to be using that extra potential.

But its a bit unfair to keep referring to a chips directx level if its being used in a system that doesn't actually support directx it is quite possible if you plonked the wii u GPU into a PC graphics card and it would support direct x10, however it is also possible the chip may support some or even all directx11 features but not in the right way to be compatible with Microsoft's api but then it doesn't need to be anyway

 

[ugoo18]

Wow, I had no idea. I didn't hear about any of those emulators until well into the PS2/Xbox/GC generation.

I actually just checked and there are already working emualtors for the 360 and PS3 as well so I guess it's nearly as bad of a situation as I thought.

Wait what, since when?

 

[KojiKnight]

Ok, I believe we can stop with that "don't use DX" thing. I know Wii U will not use DX, but DX is a easy way to reffer the futures that and others machines can do, no?

And like I say, that first gen games don't seem to be using that extra potential.

The correct way to refer to shader features is by shader model if you're going to do that We also don't know what shader model Wii U supports or it's directX equivalent "power level".

(edit) Ugoo: I'm not sure about 360, but there IS a very very basic very early PS3 emu that is much more proof of concept than anything. It can play some very basic 2D homebrew partially and slow, but it does work. I'll do another edit/post with the name.

 

[NBtoaster]

But its a bit unfair to keep referring to a chips directx level if its being used in a system that doesn't actually support directx it is quite possible if you plonked the wii u GPU into a PC graphics card and it would support direct x10, however it is also possible the chip may support some or even all directx11 features but not in the right way to be compatible with Microsoft's api but then it doesn't need to be anyway

People just mean it has hardware/API of that directX level. Support for techniques and functions introduced and used on that version of directX. Like all consoles it will have support for things beyond it's DX equivalent.

 

[KojiKnight]

rpcs3 is the name of the PS3 emu. As mentioned it's still really early and can only handle really simple 2D ps3 demo and does that slowly, but it does work. Much more proof of concept at this stage than anything else.

(edit) The link is a simple google code page, it's safe to click.

 

[NBtoaster]

The correct way to refer to shader features is by shader model if you're going to do that We also don't know what shader model Wii U supports or it's directX equivalent "power level".

There are rumors, like in the OP

 

[brochiller]

rpcs3 is the name of the PS3 emu. As mentioned it's still really early and can only handle really simple 2D ps3 demo and does that slowly, but it does work. Much more proof of concept at this stage than anything else.

(edit) The link is a simple google code page, it's safe to click.

I can't imagine there are many cpu's right now that could handle a PS3 emulator at any sort of respectable framerate.

 

[KojiKnight]

I can't imagine there are many cpu's right now that could handle a PS3 emulator at any sort of respectable framerate.

I can't imagine there will be one in the next 5-10 years honestly, at least not able to handle it in real time.

 

[Apophis2036]

It was absolutely not. Sonic Adventure and VF3TB looked like higher res Tekken 3 and Banjo Kazooie.

Unless you're talking about the US launch a year later, by which time much, much better looking games were out. Goddamn SC and DOA2 did blow my mind.

My point being an era of launches being a year apart in different territories and less than one year dev cycles is a different time.

Also the Dreamcast was the PS3 of the gen, far too powerful for when it was launched and so assisted in near-bankrupting the company.

It also took PS3 and 360 untill their second Winter to get Uncharted and Gears, people should give the system time, jesus...

 

[blu]

Re the japanese garden demo: it does not matter if every single technique used in the demo is individually doable on the ps360 - fact of matter is, not many ps360 games demonstrate this level of lighting fidelity (read: quality of pseudo-GI as demonstrated by the time-of-day and atmospheric condition changes), and *none* show that in independent camera views, as the demo does on the TV and on the gamepad, simultaneously. So instead of going the traditional 'Meh, what does this demo do anyway?' one can make an actual point by showing ps360 footage of similar things, done on a similar scale. Until then, it's all pointless sophistry- my 6502 can do everything a ps360 can do. Just not on the same scale/at the same rate. Whether that impresses me, you or anybody else is irrelevant.

 

[brochiller]

Did we ever find out who made that bird demo?

 

[this_guy]

I bet instead of getting PSP ports like the Wii got, the Wii U will get Vita ports.

I can really see it happening.

So no games?

 

[frankie_baby]

Did we ever find out who made that bird demo?

Wasn't it epic? Or is my memory playing tricks on me

 

[brochiller]

Wasn't it epic? Or is my memory playing tricks on me

That was a rumor, but I never heard it confirmed.

 

[Xun]

Already happened. Soon as developers seen how big of a flop the Vita is, they couldn't wait to port them over to Wii U.

Oh?

 

[Windom Earle]

Re the japanese garden demo: it does not matter if every single technique used in the demo is individually doable on the ps360 - fact of matter is, not many ps360 games demonstrate this level of lighting fidelity (read: quality of pseudo-GI as demonstrated by the time-of-day and atmospheric condition changes), and *none* show that in independent camera views, as the demo does on the TV and on the gamepad, simultaneously. So instead of going the traditional 'Meh, what does this demo do anyway?' one can make an actual point by showing ps360 footage of similar things, done on a similar scale. Until then, it's all pointless sophistry- my 6502 can do everything a ps360 can do. Just not on the same scale/at the same rate. Whether that impresses me, you or anybody else is irrelevant.

Because tech demos should be compared to actual games.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Oh?

Well, to be fair it's only at rumour status at the moment: http://gimmegimmegames.com/2012/07/rumor-ps-vita-projects-being-moved-to-wii-u/

Rumours shouldn't be mixed and mangled with the factual in my book, so we'll leave it there were it belongs for now.

Should be good as download titles on the uPad though. Maybe £15-£20 for good Vita retail games? Certainly seems like the perfect platform to port them to doesn't it.

Because tech demos should be compared to actual games.

For what it's worth, Nintendo have a good history of honest and moddist tech demos. It's fair to say the proof is in the pudding and until it's seen in a game sold to the public you'll reserve comment, but that works the other way round too.

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

It also took PS3 and 360 untill their second Winter to get Uncharted and Gears, people should give the system time, jesus...

Resistance, fight night, kameo,perfect dark, condemned, and even direct ports like gun and American wasteland shitted on what ever on PS2/GC/Xbox.

 

[MadeInBeats]

Resistance, fight night, kameo,perfect dark, condemned, and even direct ports like gun and American wasteland shitted on what ever on PS2/GC/Xbox.

Because the architecture was totally, totally, totally different. SD to HD. You can't understand these things? Really?

 

[Lonely1]

Wii U isn't going to get that drastic of a change in the coming years. Since it's more or less within this cycle of hardware generation tech wise.

Is a lot less than more.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Because the architecture was totally, totally, totally different. SD to HD. You can't understand these things? Really?

It's 9thwonder.

 

[lednerg]

You couldn't be more wrong. Jumping ship from making a €60 game to a €0.50-15 one is not an upgrade. There are different type of gamers. The people who play Angry Birds are not previous gamers who left homeconsole gaming.

Not what I'm talking about.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Because the architecture was totally, totally, totally different. SD to HD. You can't understand these things? Really?

What do you mean with "architecture"? He is right. The jump is not as big as from PS2-PS3: On games were no changes have been made, they had no problems to increase resolution. But that's not were it ended. They also launched with games that had increased resolution and increased effects. On Wii U right now we have multiplat games without increased resolution and without increased effects.

I guess I was far too conservative with Halo 4's budget.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=497152

No way in hell is Zombi U's budget close to this.

The interesting question is: Will any Wii U exclusive come close to a budget like Halo 4? I don't think so. Yet people are still expecting a similiar jump like PDZ to Halo 4 on the Wii U.

 

[Lonely1]

The interesting question is: Will any Wii U exclusive come close to a budget like Halo 4? I don't think so. Yet people are still expecting a similiar jump like PDZ to Halo 4 on the Wii U.

Mario Galaxy and MP3 look amazing relative to their hardware. Also, NextBox & Ps4 downports.

 

[lightchris]

Re the japanese garden demo: it does not matter if every single technique used in the demo is individually doable on the ps360 - fact of matter is, not many ps360 games demonstrate this level of lighting fidelity (read: quality of pseudo-GI as demonstrated by the time-of-day and atmospheric condition changes), and *none* show that in independent camera views, as the demo does on the TV and on the gamepad, simultaneously. So instead of going the traditional 'Meh, what does this demo do anyway?' one can make an actual point by showing ps360 footage of similar things, done on a similar scale. Until then, it's all pointless sophistry- my 6502 can do everything a ps360 can do. Just not on the same scale/at the same rate. Whether that impresses me, you or anybody else is irrelevant.

Is any good footage of the demo out there?
Sadly, from what I saw back then I had a very hard time judging anything because of the low video quality.

 

[Durante]

Because the architecture was totally, totally, totally different. SD to HD. You can't understand these things? Really?

It was totally different, but more importantly, also totally faster.