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Russia begins Invasion of Ukraine

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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Fantastic post, this is the sort of objective thinking I've been trying to promote this whole time in the thread. It's fascinating to see this binary response to the conflict right across the whole internet.



So many responses reek of the same tribalistic response to every single other issue that occurs in the world. From Trump/Biden to race issues to covid. Covid has brought out some of the most egregious examples where someone questioning vaccines or government response is instantly being vilified as anti vax or covid skeptic etc and here we are yet again. People have drawn lines in the sand and if you don't subscribe to this tribes beliefs then you are terrible or you are cheering on the "enemy" therefor you must be vilified and ostracized.

It's a reductive and basic way of looking at an incredibly complex event and proves that people are reacting out of pure emotion as opposed to engaging in logical conversation. So, props to you sir. We need more people using rational thinking like you've shown in your reply.
Some of you must be great to chat at parties:

Mary: Hey everyone, my daughter has been doing great in soccer. She scored 3 goals yesterday!

You: Wrong. I heard from people she scored two. I don't believe you unless you got video proof.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Let’s just be real here. In full scale nuclear war, everyone in the northern hemisphere is fucked.
Oh yeah, but the original question was what do they have operational. Well, the bare minimum we can expect to for sure hit us would be the SLBMs. That’s…one prong of the nuclear triad.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Ukraine/Russia conflict isn’t the worlds issue, you’re made at Syria for its government nothing wrong with that, want China to clean up its house (slaves, minimum wage etc.) this whole thing feels like dusting off a news article from 2014, how is it every election Putin wins overwhelmingly let me remind you the Russian people already elected Putin.
Putin literally murders or imprisons any strong opposition candidates.
 

RAÏSanÏa

Member
Let’s just be real here. In full scale nuclear war, everyone in the northern hemisphere is fucked.
It's imaginable the planet for current human life may be monstrous for awhile. So many cancers.
Still, life on Earth may survive another extinction event and new forms of advanced life crawl from ooze.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Interesting to see that Zelensky has asked for talks with Putin. Not really sure what to make of this. I know he wants to end the war and end the suffering of his people, but both Putin and Zelensky have totally different visions for Ukraine that I can't see what the middle ground would be?
 

Teslerum

Member

Russia on evacuating civilians - with possible temporary ceasefire​

Following peace talks between Russian and Ukrainian officials, the two sides have agreed to provide humanitarian corridors to evacuate civilians.
A Ukrainian official said the agreement involved a possible temporary ceasefire during the evacuations.
The Ukrainian side said it did not get the results it had wanted - having gone into the talks hoping for a full ceasefire and Russian withdrawal - but this could signal a positive step.
Russian negotiators have also confirmed that both parties have agreed to support humanitarian corridors and to the possibility of a ceasefire around those areas.
They added that Russia thinks the talks have led to substantial progress.
Officials have agreed to hold a third round of talks soon.
 

Sakura

Member
Interesting to see that Zelensky has asked for talks with Putin. Not really sure what to make of this. I know he wants to end the war and end the suffering of his people, but both Putin and Zelensky have totally different visions for Ukraine that I can't see what the middle ground would be?
I think Zelensky has just been kind of asking for and saying anything. Like the no-fly zone, surely he knows it wouldn't happen.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Iran is talking about how they can boost oil production quickly if sanctions are dropped. The market likes those noises, and the prices of oil are coming down from the recent peak. According to Reuters and MSN.
 

Rest

All these years later I still chuckle at what a fucking moron that guy is.
Ukraine/Russia conflict isn’t the worlds issue, you’re made at Syria for its government nothing wrong with that, want China to clean up its house (slaves, minimum wage etc.) this whole thing feels like dusting off a news article from 2014, how is it every election Putin wins overwhelmingly let me remind you the Russian people already elected Putin.
You forgot the /s dude.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
Iran is talking about how they can boost oil production quickly if sanctions are dropped. The market likes those noises, and the prices of oil are coming down from the recent peak. According to Reuters and MSN.
Highly doubt the US/West would do it, but they have a pretty big leverage point here to drop sanctions with an agreement around nukes but provide assurances to acquire X gas. It's an opportunity fort he US/Europe if folks are willing to have the right conversations.
 

chromhound

Gold Member
Ukraine/Russia conflict isn’t the worlds issue, you’re made at Syria for its government nothing wrong with that, want China to clean up its house (slaves, minimum wage etc.) this whole thing feels like dusting off a news article from 2014, how is it every election Putin wins overwhelmingly let me remind you the Russian people already elected Putin.
You can't be serious ?

michael-jordan-laughing.gif
 

LordCBH

Member
Ukraine/Russia conflict isn’t the worlds issue, you’re made at Syria for its government nothing wrong with that, want China to clean up its house (slaves, minimum wage etc.) this whole thing feels like dusting off a news article from 2014, how is it every election Putin wins overwhelmingly let me remind you the Russian people already elected Putin.

Russian elections are about as legitimate as North Korean elections.
 

Wildebeest

Member
Highly doubt the US/West would do it, but they have a pretty big leverage point here to drop sanctions with an agreement around nukes but provide assurances to acquire X gas. It's an opportunity fort he US/Europe if folks are willing to have the right conversations.
I think the implication is that the Russia is offering to use their influence to get a nuclear deal with Iran in exchange for less pressure from the US.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
I think the implication is that the Russia is offering to use their influence to get a nuclear deal with Iran in exchange for less pressure from the US.

That's one way of seeing it. As I said, it is an opportunity for the West to actually swoop in and peel them away (e.g. drop sanctions, sign energy pact, have Iran drop nukes).
 

Toots

Gold Member
In fact, Putin isn't even trying to put up any coy pretext to it beyond
You re right. And in a weird way, i think that why we need to be careful. He gives us so many reason it is easy to hate that crazy dictator, « his » army, and even « his » people. i know im kind of reaching but i recently heard in the subway two very inoffensive women speaking russian and i felt weirdly uneasy. I had to remind myself that those women were not responsible at all for putin behavior, and that they might even have fled Russia to escape that despot (they didn’t look wealthy either)… i don’t want to sound like a dollar store Yoda, but revel in hatred we must not, even if justified (moreso if justified?).

Then again i know this thread is more of a news feed than discussion about war or society in general (that is the way i use it anyway), so i’ll stop there but i felt i had to say it… though you can argue that in my post, which was supposed to tell everyone not to judge each other harshly, i couldn’t even manage not to be somewhat antagonistic… we need to work on ourselves (well i do).
 

BlackM1st

Banned
I'm not informed about who has more nukes, but i bet china beats russia by a landslide...
Not even close. CN nuclear power is tiny compared to Russian capabilities. That's why CN refuses to be a part of any nuclear agreements. Both US and RU owns like 95% of all nuclear weapons.

Currently Russia has a way more sophisticated nuclear capabilities than US too.

Both in delivering the first hypersonic strike:



And in case of retalliation even after being hit first:


Perimeter ensures the ability to strike back, but it's no hair-trigger device. It was designed to lie semi-dormant until switched on by a high official in a crisis. Then it would begin monitoring a network of seismic, radiation, and air pressure sensors for signs of nuclear explosions. Before launching any retaliatory strike, the system had to check off four if/then propositions:

Literally a semiautomatic DOOMSDAY system. Just think about it for a moment.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Not even close. CN nuclear power is tiny compared to Russian capabilities. That's why CN refuses to be a part of any nuclear agreements. Both US and RU owns like 95% of all nuclear weapons.

Currently Russia has a way more sophisticated nuclear capabilities than US too.

Both in delivering the first hypersonic strike:
You linked an article talking about hypersonic anti-ship missiles and are equating that with the delivery system of nukes. The fucking russians don't even have GPS on their god damn trucks I seriously doubt they converted their entire nuclear weapons program into hypersonic delivery without any intelligence agencies knowing about it.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
You re right. And in a weird way, i think that why we need to be careful. He gives us so many reason it is easy to hate that crazy dictator, « his » army, and even « his » people. i know im kind of reaching but i recently heard in the subway two very inoffensive women speaking russian and i felt weirdly uneasy. I had to remind myself that those women were not responsible at all for putin behavior, and that they might even have fled Russia to escape that despot (they didn’t look wealthy either)… i don’t want to sound like a dollar store Yoda, but revel in hatred we must not, even if justified (moreso if justified?).

Then again i know this thread is more of a news feed than discussion about war or society in general (that is the way i use it anyway), so i’ll stop there but i felt i had to say it… though you can argue that in my post, which was supposed to tell everyone not to judge each other harshly, i couldn’t even manage not to be somewhat antagonistic… we need to work on ourselves (well i do).

I think you can just say that... Russians are not a monolith, and Russian people are as much a victim here as anyone. We shouldn't let our fears turn us into animals and begin to bigot or generalize about Russian people here in the US or elsewhere.

In a geopolitical context, however, saying Fuck Russia or Fuck Putin is fine - but your point is completely true. I actually know a few Russians, and they are strongly supportive of Ukraine (and deeply embarrassed). No reason to ostracize them.

I also don't think anyone here is doing that but it's worth saying out loud - so thank you.
 

BlackM1st

Banned
You linked an article talking about hypersonic anti-ship missiles and are equating that with the delivery system of nukes.

Whole? No. Who said anything about the entire forces?


Underwater capabilities:

https://eurasiantimes.com/russias-record-breaking-submarine-armed-with-putins-super-weapon/

The fucking russians don't even have GPS on their god damn trucks I seriously doubt they converted their entire nuclear weapons program into hypersonic delivery without any intelligence agencies knowing about it.


Sure bro, whatever makes you sleep better. Russia is weak, that's why we all here after all!
 

betrayal

Banned
Reads like both sides concern trolling that doesn't provide any support for the claims being made while obfuscating with emotional reasoning.

That's true, of course, but the problem is Western bias.

When Russia trolls, the media generally portray it as a lie. Obviously, there are reasons why this is the case in Russia.

But the thing is, when Ukraine trolls, the media automatically presents it as fact.
 

Gp1

Member
Did you guys saw the last Putin speech?

The focus was completely domestic. Saying that Russia is fighting neonazi terrorists (something that simply don't work with the west anymore), tried to create a war hero and promised to raise soldiers salaries and compensation etc.

The man is afraid to lose internal support.
 

BigBooper

Member
That's true, of course, but the problem is Western bias.

When Russia trolls, the media generally portray it as a lie. Obviously, there are reasons why this is the case in Russia.

But the thing is, when Ukraine trolls, the media automatically presents it as fact.
It's constant, everywhere. Even the post right above yours, a reporter tweeting a headline that is barely like the video he is sharing. No one is reflecting.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. – Mark Twain
 
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