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[IDKFA]

No I'm not. Only person who is off base is Putin. You can't for certain know what he will do.

My postulation is that he nukes Ukraine, and preserves his military. With a shell of a military, plus free agency to nuke non-NATO nations who knows where he'd stop - certainly not you.

My question to you is do you think he doesn't nuke Ukraine if he loses his ability to effectively fight a conventional war at scale? If the answer is yes, then the same will be true for other non-NATO targets (whether he does or doesn't, won't matter, cause then it's not a matter of now but eventually).

He's not going to use nuclear weapons on Ukraine. It would be pointless and not assist Russia in anyway. Even if Russia losses, they're not going to nuke Ukraine out of spite.

 

[Bojji]

Good to see all the ‘won’t somebody think of the Russian soldiers’ bullshit has dried up around here.

From now on, we need a concerted effort to utterly destroy Russia economically. There has to be punishment for this. Severe punishment. And yes, that may mean Russian citizens dying from social unrest and other things caused by the sanctions.

I’m sorry, but this atrocity cannot go unanswered. We cannot and should not engage Russia in war, but we should suffocate it to death over the next few years or decades. Every western nation should be bent towards this goal, to make sure this can never happen again.

In first days when they were actually targeting mostly military targets most civilian causalities were by mistake. But after Putin realized this war won't be quick they are deliberately destroying civilian buildings and attacking innocent people/children, worst case scenario for Ukraine:

Tank shooting man on the street:

Shocking moment 'Russian tank shoots and kills elderly man in street'

Video purports to show an elderly Ukrainian man walking along down an empty street in the besieged port city of Mariupol, before a Russian military vehicle opened fire and killed the civilian.

www.dailymail.co.uk

And casually shelling apartment buildings...

And this theatre now... they know civilians were inside. Soldiers following orders when they know their actions will kill/harm Innocent people deserve only death.

Almost 2 milion people from Ukraine in Poland alone, already much bigger number than when Europe was flooded in 2015:

The 2015 European migrant crisis, also known internally as the Syrian refugee crisis, was a period of significantly increased movement of refugees and migrants into Europe in 2015, when 1.3 million people came to the continent to request asylum, the most in a single year since World War II.

2015 European migrant crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[GymWolf]

No one is dumping caviar on no one.

I was quoting the chappelle sketch.

 

[GymWolf]

And 100 are coming... they need more, but this is a good start.

So putin is ok with us sending drones?? How is that different than sending soldiers? Aren't drones way more deadlier than soldiers?

I mean i'm ok with putin being a dumbass and not menacing to release nukes for this, but i fail to see how he is ok with this type of intervention from foreign countries but "direct" help is a big nono...

 

[Dr.D00p]

So putin is ok with us sending drones?? How is that different than sending soldiers? Aren't drones way more deadlier than soldiers?

I mean i'm ok with putin being a dumbass and not menacing to release nukes for this, but i fail to see how he is ok with this type of intervention from foreign countries but "direct" help is a big nono...

Its nothing new. The West and Russia have been fighting proxy wars and killing each others soldiers since the 1950s

American supplied weapons against Russian troops in Afghanistan (1980-88) and Russian supplied weapons & training used against American troops in the Sandbox,for the last 20yrs.

 

[M1chl]

Guys, be wary of propaganda. The easiest way to foster emotion on a subject is to say "chikdren". People can be destroying each other in the street but once you mention children, everyone starts paying attention. This is war. What if I hid troops in a building marked children and there were no kids in the building.

Don't get me wrong, I think Putin's a douche for this nonsense, but we need to think real careful about what our next moves are. We don't want to get pulled full force into this. It sucks for everyone involved and eventually Putin will get his my guess is from "accidental" friendly fire..

Edit: I would pay to see him fight Elon...

There were videos from that Theatre before it was bombed, it was full of civilians. And as you might saw, West gives zero fucks about joining the conflict.

Vinay Menon: Elon Musk gives the world a crash course in how to troll and control Vladimir Putin

This week Musk tweeted a trilingual taunt at the Russian president and incredibly, some of Putin’s thuggish BFFs are now taking the bait.

www.thestar.com

...incredibly, some of Putin’s thuggish BFFs are now taking the bait.
On Tuesday, Musk shared a Telegram message from “Ramzan Kadyrov, head of Chechen Republic!”
Let’s ignore the sexism-slash-homophobia-slash-toxic masculinity. But think about what just happened. This Kremlin-backed sociopath is in a war theatre and Elon Musk has got under his skin to the point where he is penning Unabomber-length manifestos.
This is grim geopolitics reduced to a manufactured celebrity feud. And it’s cathartic.

Putin keeps setting the rules of engagement. And the West keeps skittishly detailing everything that is “not on the table.” This is pure insanity. That table should be an invisible funhouse of possible horrors that haunts Putin. Nothing should be off the table. Why is the West kowtowing to the aggressor in this immoral equation?
Why are we cautiously reacting to Putin instead of scaring the daylights out of him?
And that brings us back to the second paragraph in this column.

The more I think about it, the more I believe Musk is giving the West a crash course in how to deal with a brutal dictator. You challenge. You mock. You show strength. You pencil in your own red lines. You ridicule. You let it be known you are in control.
Elon Musk is never going to have a fist fight with Vladimir Putin.
But it’s time for the West to make it clear it is ready to rumble.

Did the author jerked off the whole time over Elon's poster? It's cringy. Because I am sure that brutal dictator, especially someone from KGB is going to be super triggered over some mean shit said about him... Some terminally online people are truly lost. Kadyrov is also some idiot, who aside from his units, have zero power over this conflict. It's this childish perception that people like Putin can be influenced by strong words, which pretty much got us into this conflict.

 

[Wildebeest]

So putin is ok with us sending drones?? How is that different than sending soldiers? Aren't drones way more deadlier than soldiers?

I mean i'm ok with putin being a dumbass and not menacing to release nukes for this, but i fail to see how he is ok with this type of intervention from foreign countries but "direct" help is a big nono...

Putin isn't fine with it and threatened extreme consequences for nations which send military aid to Ukraine. Nato has its own red lines based on what it thinks will escalate conflict too much, but this isn't it, apparently. Putin's own comments are not rational, as they add up to not much more than terrorist threats from a failing dictatorship run by a deranged war criminal. But they do threaten our security.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't think there is an easy way out of this but let's focus our punishment and anger on political leaders and military personnel. This line of thinking leads to bad places.

My point is that to suitably punish Russia for this, it will require the suffering of those that don’t deserve it. I don’t like it anymore than you do, but it’s inevitable. The whole world has to know this kind of atrocity cannot be done without severe consequences. People who don’t deserve it will have to suffer for Putin’s crimes. And it will be his fault, and his fault alone.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Did the author jerked off the whole time over Elon's poster? It's cringy. Because I am sure that brutal dictator, especially someone from KGB is going to be super triggered over some mean shit said about him... Some terminally online people are truly lost. Kadyrov is also some idiot, who aside from his units, have zero power over this conflict. It's this childish perception that people like Putin can be influenced by strong words, which pretty much got us into this conflict.

Even mentioning an opinion on Musk's post seems to trigger people to make outlandish aspersions.

SpaceX providing internet is more of a concern strategically, but these dictators/fascists equate fear with respect. In view of that a better takeaway is that Musk showed that an individual can draw attention from those attacking Ukraine by exploiting that vulnerability.

 

[BigBooper]

Putin isn't fine with it and threatened extreme consequences for nations which send military aid to Ukraine. Nato has its own red lines based on what it thinks will escalate conflict too much, but this isn't it, apparently. Putin's own comments are not rational, as they add up to not much more than terrorist threats from a failing dictatorship run by a deranged war criminal. But they do threaten our security.

You have no idea if Putin's comments or his actions are rational because you don't know what his goal is. Misinformation and misdirection can be very useful in certain circumstances.

 

[M1chl]

Even mentioning an opinion on Musk's post seems to trigger people to make outlandish aspersions.

SpaceX providing internet is more of a concern strategically, but these dictators/fascists equate fear with respect. In view of that a better takeaway is that Musk showed that an individual can draw attention from those attacking Ukraine by exploiting that vulnerability.

The article was pretty outlandish, I agree. I don't think that article, or at least what you have quoted have anything to do with Starlink and how Musk truly helps Ukraine...

 

[funkygunther]

Even mentioning an opinion on Musk's post seems to trigger people to make outlandish aspersions.

SpaceX providing internet is more of a concern strategically, but these dictators/fascists equate fear with respect. In view of that a better takeaway is that Musk showed that an individual can draw attention from those attacking Ukraine by exploiting that vulnerability.

it plays into the narrative of the power of single autocrats ("there are two possible outcomes") and is a standard puff piece written for gossip column clicks but really the Musk thing is a boring distraction from the actual situation and will be forgotten in days like the fluctuating weights of celebrities

 

[Wildebeest]

You have no idea if Putin's comments or his actions are rational because you don't know what his goal is. Misinformation and misdirection can be very useful in certain circumstances.

I don't agree. When it comes to this sort of escalation, clarity is very important as the stakes are so high as things could spiral out of control very rapidly. What Putin has done is cross massive red lines himself and threaten people with extreme terrorist acts for crossing his own "invisible red lines" after the fact. It is not a rational use of red lines given the stakes.

The fact is we do know what his goal is, and it isn't rational. He wants to regain all the territory "lost" by the Soviet Union, divide and fragment the west, and restore his beloved Russia to the state of being a massive empire that makes everyone in the world tremble in fear.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

The article was pretty outlandish, I agree. I don't think that article, or at least what you have quoted have anything to do with Starlink and how Musk truly helps Ukraine...

It's difficult to quantify a distraction. If Kadyrov is worried about Musk for part of the day then that is part of the day he isn't thinking about kidnapping Ukrainian children. Is that simple enough?

 

[BigBooper]

I don't agree. When it comes to this sort of escalation, clarity is very important as the stakes are so high as things could spiral out of control very rapidly. What Putin has done is cross massive red lines himself and threaten people with extreme terrorist acts for crossing his own "invisible red lines" after the fact. It is not a rational use of red lines given the stakes.

The fact is we do know what his goal is, and it isn't rational. He wants to regain all the territory "lost" by the Soviet Union, divide and fragment the west, and restore his beloved Russia to the state of being a massive empire that makes everyone in the world tremble in fear.

If you remember, President Obama demonstrated himself that public red lines are meaningless when it comes to actual political dealings.

You only know what he wants you to think or what others want you to think. You don't know what he thinks.

 

[funkygunther]

It's difficult to quantify a distraction. If Kadyrov is worried about Musk for part of the day then that is part of the day he isn't thinking about kidnapping Ukrainian children. Is that simple enough?

that is simple and also not how thinking works

 

[M1chl]

It's difficult to quantify a distraction. If Kadyrov is worried about Musk for part of the day then that is part of the day he isn't thinking about kidnapping Ukrainian children. Is that simple enough?

Except I really don't think that is happening, if anything this guy out of spite, will be even more cruel. However I don't truly believe that someone like Kadirov actually went on some field action.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

that is simple and also not how thinking works

Time is an indicator. The time you took to answer indicates how your thought process works - reflexively.

 

[Wildebeest]

If you remember, President Obama demonstrated himself that public red lines are meaningless when it comes to actual political dealings.

You only know what he wants you to think or what others want you to think. You don't know what he thinks.

I'm just going by what Putin says and does, but perhaps there is some deep secret within him that I don't know. The mysteries of the universe buried deep inside old Pooty Poots the mad clown, stranger things have happened.

 

[funkygunther]

Time is an indicator. The time you took to answer indicates how your thought process works - reflexively.

in your and the gossip journalist's imagination of Kadarov and Musk anything can be true

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

Except I really don't think that is happening, if anything this guy out of spite, will be even more cruel. However I don't truly believe that someone like Kadirov actually went on some field action.

That's a good point that they might try to be more cruel which might make them take more risks. That could help Ukraine also.

The fascist minions also read it and the responses which could have an effect on them too.

 

[M1chl]

That's a good point that they might try to be more cruel which might make them take more risks. That could help Ukraine also.

The fascist minions also read it and the responses which could have an effect on them too.

My point at first, really wasn't about Elon Musk specifically, you can swap out to any other western figure. My problem with the article, is the notion, that some shit talk, will make them double think. It's totally different world out there and why it matters in my opinion, is that this sort of notion is what leads to complacency of Kremlin rising to disctatorship. Even someone like Merkel said that North stream 2 have zero politics behind it, that it's simply a "good deal to Europe"...

 

[Tams]

I think it would be closer to something Tito or Xi Jin Pin have said. After all, China IS preparing their youth for war.


For ICBMs, the order has to go through only 3 people: Putin, Lavrov and a General in Kremlin. Each of 3 has one key to a system that only works when 3 keys are combined.

The thing is that right now, Lavrov is 120% with Putin, andI think the russian general is also aligned with him, so it's not out of the question for the 3 of them to "push the button".

If they 'push the button' then they are all dead.

Either a retaliatory nuke gets them, other massive strikes gets them, one of their own assassinate them, or they are hunted down like wild animals by the West. No bunker in the Urals will save them from the revenge that would be sort. And their families and anyone close to them would suffer similar fates.

And I wouldn't put it past the West persecuting the Russian people themselves for having let it get that far. The thirst for revenge and blood would be immense.

That's not even getting into what China, India, and Brazil would do.

 

[FunkMiller]

someone like Merkel said that North stream 2 have zero politics behind it, that it's simply a "good deal to Europe"...

Of course what she meant was that it was a good deal for Germany.

The EU has been a racket for the Germans and the French from its inception. Perhaps this latest horror will change things for the better.

 

[Papacheeks]

There were videos from that Theatre before it was bombed, it was full of civilians. And as you might saw, West gives zero fucks about joining the conflict.


Did the author jerked off the whole time over Elon's poster? It's cringy. Because I am sure that brutal dictator, especially someone from KGB is going to be super triggered over some mean shit said about him... Some terminally online people are truly lost. Kadyrov is also some idiot, who aside from his units, have zero power over this conflict. It's this childish perception that people like Putin can be influenced by strong words, which pretty much got us into this conflict.

The west does not want a war with China which getting involved with Russia will lead to.

 

[ShadowNate]

At least this is something

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

My point at first, really wasn't about Elon Musk specifically, you can swap out to any other western figure. My problem with the article, is the notion, that some shit talk, will make them double think. It's totally different world out there and why it matters in my opinion, is that this sort of notion is what leads to complacency of Kremlin rising to disctatorship. Even someone like Merkel said that North stream 2 have zero politics behind it, that it's simply a "good deal to Europe"...

Agree that it won't make the enemy rethink their grand scheme, at best it could contribute to foggy thinking.

Nordstream brings to mind where the opinion piece concludes

Putin keeps setting the rules of engagement. And the West keeps skittishly detailing everything that is “not on the table.” This is pure insanity. That table should be an invisible funhouse of possible horrors that haunts Putin. Nothing should be off the table.

using the invisible funhouse to upset enemy control of the tempo of escalation seems a reasonable consideration to include in the counterattack.

Western figures getting involved is just a part of the funhouse. It's even reasonable to expect film, music, and tv are likely going to have something to offer in shittalk both overt and subliminal in the coming months. They're secure in the knowledge that the content is already being encouraged to be pirated and watched in Russia by their own leadership. There's no financial discouragement. Films for the 5th Column!

 

[M1chl]

Agree that it won't make the enemy rethink their grand scheme, at best it could contribute to foggy thinking.

Nordstream brings to mind where the opinion piece concludes

using the invisible funhouse to upset enemy control of the tempo of escalation seems a reasonable consideration to include in the counterattack.

Western figures getting involved is just a part of the funhouse. It's even reasonable to expect film, music, and tv are likely going to have something to offer in shittalk both overt and subliminal in the coming months. They're secure in the knowledge that the content is already being encouraged to be pirated and watched in Russia by their own leadership. There's no financial discouragement. Films for the 5th Column!

No I agree, that people should shit talk these people (because opposition to that, is quite scary), but I doubt that it has really any meaningful impact on them and how they handle things.

 

[Thaedolus]

Lavrov apparently was recalled halfway on his flight to Beijing…

 

[Doctor Manhattan]

*fingers crossed*
Please just be a gathering for a spa session.
Please just be a gathering for a spa session.
Please just be a gathering for a spa session.

 

[Ar¢tos]

This is shitty :

Leroy Merlin is not leaving Russia and has blocked Ukrainian corporate accounts

Ukrainians were promised to restore access after 15 March 2022, but it did not happen.

en.lb.ua

I used to go there often, I guess i won't go back there again.

 

[Thaedolus]

The weapons aid has been super effective. Let’s hope it makes Russia back down not double down. (They’ll double down)

 

[Cyberpunkd]

So putin is ok with us sending drones?? How is that different than sending soldiers? Aren't drones way more deadlier than soldiers?

I mean i'm ok with putin being a dumbass and not menacing to release nukes for this, but i fail to see how he is ok with this type of intervention from foreign countries but "direct" help is a big nono...

Because by giving the equipment you leave it for Ukrainians to decide - "guns don't kill people" argument

If you send troops (which would be under German, US, etc. command) you have another country ordering soldiers to fire on the Russians, effectively declaring war against Russia.

Russia does the same thing with trying to get equipment from China.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

This is shitty :

Leroy Merlin is not leaving Russia and has blocked Ukrainian corporate accounts

Ukrainians were promised to restore access after 15 March 2022, but it did not happen.

en.lb.ua

I used to go there often, I guess i won't go back there again.

Same, but they will probably fold under public opinion when this blows up.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

China will never openly support Russia, it is in their interest for the country to bleed in Ukraine, since they make them more and more reliant on China.

The best scenario for China is for Russia to wage a war long enough to have to rely on the Chinese, and then lose, since this will rid China of any repercussions.

 

[Aggelos]

 

[Thaedolus]

 

[Wildebeest]

I don't even any more.

 

[Celcius]

That was really well said, go Arnold!

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

I guess to the surprise of nobody:

 

[nemiroff]

My mother-in-law's town was occupied by the Russians very early on, and for that reason it has been relatively quiet there for a while. But interestingly enough the last two days things have changed, there has been shooting in and around the town now, a lot of movement going on. Which might mean that the Ukranians are starting to fight back at places previously thought "lost" (at least that's what I thought).

I don't know, I should be careful to not extrapolate too much.. But I mean, I thought Russia would waltz all over Ukraine in the matter of a couple of days, but no, I'm surprised over how slow Russia has been advancing. Of course we all know this makes it especially dangerous time now because the Russians are getting increasingly frustrated, and we've clearly seen that in their careless shelling of civilian targets. So unfortunately I guess civilian casualties is most likely is going to continue to increase, perhaps tenfold.

 

[chromhound]

 

[Sakura]

The weapons aid has been super effective. Let’s hope it makes Russia back down not double down. (They’ll double down)

I'm not really an expert on military stuff, so how does 20~k casualities mean the Russian forces are nearly spent? Isn't that like 1/10th of their forces there? And now we hear about how they are bringing in 40k mercenaries (not that I expect a lot out of them...).

 

[Tams]

Zelenskiy has been really hitting the West hard these last couple of days.

He does his homework on what will most likely get them to do something. Playing on Churchill's words with the British Parliament. Appealing to Americans' love of freedom. Shaming the Germans for not standing up for they proclaim to lead. And in all those addresses, it really does seem to have hit some politicians quite hard.

A cynic may say he's using them. I mean, yes, he his. But if I were him and my country was being destroyed, I'd do the same (just certainly not with the same skill).

 

[chromhound]

And now we hear about how they are bringing in 40k mercenaries (not that I expect a lot out of them...).

most of these mercenaries will not even fight lol. They will mostly seek asylum

 

[speckz]

 

[DrAspirino]

Zelenskiy has been really hitting the West hard these last couple of days.

He does his homework on what will most likely get them to do something. Playing on Churchill's words with the British Parliament. Appealing to Americans' love of freedom. Shaming the Germans for not standing up for they proclaim to lead. And in all those addresses, it really does seem to have hit some politicians quite hard.

A cynic may say he's using them. I mean, yes, he his. But if I were him and my country was being destroyed, I'd do the same (just certainly not with the same skill).

And to the surprise of no one, none of those leaders or countries will do a thing, since doing so will immediately result in WW3.

As Charles de Gaulle said (and I quoted some posts before) : "Nations have no friends. Only interests."

 

[speckz]

I guess to the surprise of nobody:

 

[Loki]

Has anyone in here been critical of Biden's enormous military aid package to Ukraine yesterday? I'm American, and I'm wondering why we did that. Regardless of whether Ukraine is in the right here, or deserves aid/compassion (which they do), this could and likely will be perceived by Putin as a bright red line which essentially constitutes an all but formal declaration of war by the US. Remind me how that is good for the American people again? This is almost assuredly going to cause an escalation on Putin's part, and we shouldn't be this cavalier against a nuclear power which has an increasingly unhinged authoritarian at the helm who has had no qualms in recent months raising the specter of nukes.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

Has anyone in here been critical of Biden's enormous military aid package to Ukraine yesterday? I'm American, and I'm wondering why we did that. Regardless of whether Ukraine is in the right here, or deserves aid/compassion (which they do), this could and likely will be perceived by Putin as a bright red line which essentially constitutes an all but formal declaration of war by the US. Remind me how that is good for the American people again? This is almost assuredly going to cause an escalation on Putin's part, and we shouldn't be this cavalier against a nuclear power which has an increasingly unhinged authoritarian at the helm who has had no qualms in recent months raising the specter of nukes.

Fuck Putin and what he thinks. I doubt Putin will escalate. He's all talk and sends his own people to die for a bullshit cause. When he 'escalates', he knows he'll end up dead.