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[FunkMiller]

Your opinions are based on the belief that Ukraine can outright win this war and chase the Russians back to Russia. My opinions are based on the belief that Ukraine can not do that. That's all there is to it, no need to indulge in conspiracy theories or call people authoritarian.

What is about the lightning fast, super successful Kharkiv counter offensive, the consistent retaking of Ukrainian towns in the Kherson oblast, the vast array of western weaponry and training, the fighting will of the Ukrainian army, and the full throated support of every free nation on Earth, that makes you think they won’t win?

 

[Tams]

Of course they'll be punished, they have to bring something to the table for the peace deal to happen.

I didn't know that Peace wears boots.

Gaining territory would make any punishment moot. They'll have got what they wanted.

Peace requires goodwill on both sides. We've seen what current Russian goodwill is like. It's only a temporary state anyway, as most of what prevents war is the threat of it being terrible for the attacker. Why do you think almost every country has an armed forces? And those that don't (or very minimal ones) live under powerful allies' umbrellas?

Again, you are either a troll or a naïve idiot.

 

[Sybrix]

Putting my despot Total War hat on......

If i were China, wouldn't now be the best time to cut ties with Russia completely and move into their eastern territory to expand Chinese dominance?

 

[FunkMiller]

Putting my despot Total War hat on......

If i were China, wouldn't now be the best time to cut ties with Russia completely and move into their eastern territory to expand Chinese dominance?

Maybe a bit soon. If Xi has any sense, he'll continue with his verbal only support of Russia until such time as Putin has to come begging for help. No real need to launch an actual military invasion, when an economic one will be easier. Let's not forget the Chinese army is completely untested in conflict.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

What is about the lightning fast, super successful Kharkiv counter offensive, the consistent retaking of Ukrainian towns in the Kherson oblast, the vast array of western weaponry and training, the fighting will of the Ukrainian army, and the full throated support of every free nation on Earth, that makes you think they won’t win?

I think they're ultimately too weak without foreign boots on the ground, especially now that Putin has ordered reinforcements. The part about the "full throated support of every free nation on earth" is simply not true, btw. You could argue that The West™ is fully supportive, but even there the level of support varies a lot by country.

 

[LimanimaPT]

This situation is becoming out of control. I'm really starting to get worried.
I really can't see a way out of this. I think a peace deal where Ukraine accepts the invasion and gives land to Ruzzia can't be accepted. This invasion CANNOT BE REWARDED by any means. On the other side, I don't see Ruzzia retreating and accepting defeat, which will probably lead to an escalation of the war.
Thounsands of people have already died, and I fear hundreds of thounsands more will die, including innocent civilians, when I think about the children that are goin thru this, I feel like crying.
Putin was completely wrong for thinking that he could take Ukraine in a week and that the people would welcome him with open arms. He dug a hole from where he can't escape now, and I fear he will try to bomb the way out of this hole.
I feel so much hatred for Putler that I can't put it into words...

 

[Tams]

I think they're ultimately too weak without foreign boots on the ground, especially now that Putin has ordered reinforcements. The part about the "full throated support of every free nation on earth" is simply not true, btw. You could argue that The West™ is fully supportive, but even there the level of support varies a lot by country.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think they're ultimately too weak without foreign boots on the ground, especially now that Putin has ordered reinforcements. The part about the "full throated support of every free nation on earth" is simply not true, btw. You could argue that The West™ is fully supportive, but even there the level of support varies a lot by country.

The thing is, none of what you say here is in any way backed up by any actual evidence. It's like you're willfully dismissing what's actually going on in front of your eyes. I think a lot of the reason why folks are getting mad at you in this thread is because you're constantly basing your opinion on nothing more than Kremlin talking points, and the image of Russia that the world used to have before this war began. It's like you're having real trouble accepting what Russia actually is.

And I don't know any democratic, free country in the world that doesn't support Ukraine.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I think they're ultimately too weak without foreign boots on the ground

They like to say that a lot on russian television...

 

[winjer]

Russian negotiations are always made in bad faith.
Their strategy always starts by making huge demands. That of course the other side can't accept.
Then they claim the other side is antagonistic and doesn't want to negotiate.
Eventually the settle to a partial deal, of the initial demands and claim they are doing it because of peace.
But the thing is, even a partial deal, out of unreasonable initial demands, is a win for Russia, because they started with nothing and got something for their invasion.
We cannot continue to accept this mafia style of negotiations. Either this stops now with Ukraine, of Russia will continue to try this tactic with it's neighbors.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

By the way, all this bullshit is distracting us from the Kherson front.

Reportedly the new defensive line is set at Mylove, which is deep enough that Ukraine could theoretically connect with the Inhulets bridgehead and isolate the entire northern section of the russian defensive line.

As always, grain of salt and all that, but if it pans out it means the next push will reach the Nova Kharkova bridge and at that point the only logistics left will be through Kherson itself.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The thing is, none of what you say here is in any way backed up by any actual evidence. It's like you're willfully dismissing what's actually going on in front of your eyes. I think a lot of the reason why folks are getting mad at you in this thread is because you're constantly basing your opinion on nothing more than Kremlin talking points, and the image of Russia that the world used to have before this war began. It's like you're having real trouble accepting what Russia actually is.

Time will tell who is right, I sadly don't expect a peace deal anytime soon.

And I don't know any democratic, free country in the world that doesn't support Ukraine.

Support is different than full throated support. Of course most countries in the world are condemning the war, but much fewer countries are actually doing something about it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Time will tell who is right, I sadly don't expect a peace deal anytime soon.

We’re right. Because we’re basing our opinions on the facts coming out of Ukraine.

You might want to ask yourself what you’re basing your opinions on and why.

 

[Ironbunny]

Support is different than full throated support. Of course most countries in the world are condemning the war, but much fewer countries are actually doing something about it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

 

[Bernd Lauert]

We’re right. Because we’re basing our opinions on the facts coming out of Ukraine.

I hope you're right, I just don't see it.

You might want to ask yourself what you’re basing your opinions on and why.

I base my opinions on what's happening in Ukraine.

 

[Tams]

Time will tell who is right, I sadly don't expect a peace deal anytime soon.

Support is different than full throated support. Of course most countries in the world are condemning the war, but much fewer countries are actually doing something about it.

Alright Neville, back into your coffin. It's not Hallowe'en yet.

Actually, that's besmirching his name. At least Chamberlain had the nous to start preparing Britian for war, even if he did get that silly piece of white paper.

 

[DJ12]

We’re right. Because we’re basing our opinions on the facts coming out of Ukraine.

You might want to ask yourself what you’re basing your opinions on and why.

Trolls gonna troll. Regardless of the topic.

 

[FunkMiller]

I base my opinions on what's happening in Ukraine.

Clearly, you’re not. You don’t think Ukraine can win.

They just retook Lyman. They’re retaking town after town in Kherson. Russia cannot counter. Mass surrenders. Huge Russian death toll and equipment destruction.

Where are you getting your information?

 

[Ironbunny]

Where are you getting your information?

This is the problem I see with most of the posters who come to this thread saying Ukraine cant win this. They dont post anything to back it up. Others for them are either stupid, naive, real-life COD wannabes, dont know history, keyboard warriors etc. Yet theres nothing to show from the other side of the lane.

 

[MisterFalcon]

There is still a core of (mostly American) true believers like Scott Ritter and Larry Johnson who are convinced Russia is winning big time, that Ukraine is losing so many troops for the ground Russia lets them take that it will all be over soon.
It would be hilarious if, through Tucker Carlson, this gets to Putin and he chooses to believe that over what is coming out of Russia where the ultranationalists are crying bloody murder over how terribly things are being commanded.

 

[RJMacready73]

There is still a core of (mostly American) true believers like Scott Ritter and Larry Johnson who are convinced Russia is winning big time, that Ukraine is losing so many troops for the ground Russia lets them take that it will all be over soon.
It would be hilarious if, through Tucker Carlson, this gets to Putin and he chooses to believe that over what is coming out of Russia where the ultranationalists are crying bloody murder over how terribly things are being commanded.

Yeah but those are all fucking morons to be fair

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

There is still a core of (mostly American) true believers like Scott Ritter and Larry Johnson who are convinced Russia is winning big time, that Ukraine is losing so many troops for the ground Russia lets them take that it will all be over soon.
It would be hilarious if, through Tucker Carlson, this gets to Putin and he chooses to believe that over what is coming out of Russia where the ultranationalists are crying bloody murder over how terribly things are being commanded.

Ritter and Carlson feature often on russian television, and Ritter has even given them interviews through RT.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

He's got the big picture right. The war is not ending with one side winning, so a peace deal has to be made.

It would be dumb. Right now, Ukraine is kicking Russia's teeth in, and they have the tactical advantage of very soon controlling Russia's supply lines. They've proven capable of fighting smart. They have smaller numbers, but a single UA soldier is worth dozens of the fodder Russian is throwing at the frontlines. The US would very not be in favor of a quick peace deal at this point, because they're currently depleting both Russia's military and economy by proxy. They'll be paying for the military weapons anyway, so might as well put them to good use. Not to mention all the intel they're gathering on Russia's military and its complete incompetence.

A peace deal now is a defeat for Ukraine. Fuck that, and fuck Russia. At this rate, Ukraine will be able to take back Crimea. It might not be easy, but they have the backing to do it. And Russia will end up committing even more resources to the defense, further hurting them. The only peace deal is Russia getting the fuck out of all of Ukraine, including Crimea.

 

[BigbyTheSheriff]

 

[Ironbunny]

Well Scott Ritter thinks Bucha was done by Ukraine and ruZZia is not aiming at civilian areas...like Mariupol.

 

[Ironbunny]

Posturing with nuclear weapons speaks of ruZZias weakness not strength.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Clearly, you’re not. You don’t think Ukraine can win.

They just retook Lyman. They’re retaking town after town in Kherson. Russia cannot counter. Mass surrenders. Huge Russian death toll and equipment destruction.

Same thing happened the other way round a couple of months ago. It's not a good argument.

 

[FunkMiller]

Same thing happened the other way round a couple of months ago. It's not a good argument.

What happened a couple of months ago? Are you claiming Russian victories?

 

[Ironbunny]

This is what these vatniks always do. They move their own people to stolen lands. How do you negotiate peace deal with these cunts?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

This is what these vatniks always do. They move their own people to stolen lands. How do you negotiate peace deal with these cunts?

Ohh don’t you see? We’re innocent Russians defending innocent Russian people that happen to be on other countries because we sent them there.

 

[Ironbunny]

 

[FunkMiller]

There is still a core of (mostly American) true believers like Scott Ritter and Larry Johnson who are convinced Russia is winning big time, that Ukraine is losing so many troops for the ground Russia lets them take that it will all be over soon.
It would be hilarious if, through Tucker Carlson, this gets to Putin and he chooses to believe that over what is coming out of Russia where the ultranationalists are crying bloody murder over how terribly things are being commanded.

It’s so weird to hear this from outside the US. That members of a country that has always seemed so patriotic would be actively supporting the direct enemy, simply due to political differences.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

What happened a couple of months ago? Are you claiming Russian victories?

What a weird question.

 

[FunkMiller]

What a weird question.

Why is it a weird question? You said the same thing happened a couple of months ago the other way around, in response to my post about Ukrainian victories.

So, you’re obviously claiming that there have been recent Russian victories in the last two months. Can you supply evidence of this?

 

[TheGrat1]

Imo, Russia can't be defeated without direct involvement of NATO soldiers. So the only other solution is a peace deal.

They do not have to be "defeated" in that they unconditionally/conditionally surrender. They simply have to be forced to withdraw due to the war being unsustainable. That is what the sanctions are for.

 

[Tams]

What a weird question.

Ah, a classic. Avoiding answering the question and trying to cast doubt on the integrity of the asker because you know you don't have an answer (or at least one that would stand up to scrutiny).

You also haven't answered my questions from earlier; just accused me of being mean to you. Diddums.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Why is it a weird question? You said the same thing happened a couple of months ago the other way around, in response to my post about Ukrainian victories.

So, you’re obviously claiming that there have been recent Russian victories in the last two months. Can you supply evidence of this?

I'm obviously talking about the first few months of the war. Or are we now acting as if nothing happened?

 

[Tams]

I'm obviously talking about the first few months of the war. Or are we now acting as if nothing happened?

That's not an answer.

Come on, that's your second attempt. You can surely show us some evidence of massive Russian gains and Ukrainian losses in the last couple of months. We'll be generous and even let you go back to July!

 

[FunkMiller]

I'm obviously talking about the first few months of the war. Or are we now acting as if nothing happened?

So… *seven* months ago, then. Try to be a bit more accurate.

And you’re comparing a Ukraine with zero NATO equipment and training, against a Russian army at full force then… to a heavily armed and well trained Ukrainian army, against a weakened and demoralised Russian army now.

Hardly a great bit of evidence to back up your claims that Ukraine can’t win, is it?

What evidence can you supply to us that backs up your opinion that Ukraine cannot win this war? Genuinely interested to see it.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So… *seven* months ago, then. Try to be a bit more accurate.

Yeah, it's been half a year.

And you’re comparing a Ukraine with zero NATO equipment and training, against a Russian army at full force then… to a heavily armed and well trained Ukrainian army, against a weakened and demoralised Russian army now.

The Russian army wasn't even close to full force back then. That's the entire reason why they lost so much territory in April, they were spread way too thin. They tried to blitz the entire country and failed.

What evidence can you supply to us that backs up your opinion that Ukraine cannot win this war? Genuinely interested to see it.

Just by looking at the number of available soldiers on both sides, I don't see how Ukraine is supposed to retake everything.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Both Russian and Ukrainian milbloggers are reporting that the invading orc forces in Kherson have retreated from the northern defensive line.

This means potentially everything north of the inhulets river has been liberated as they both mention Davidy Brid as one of the towns the orcs are victoriously regrouping away from.

Edit: it’s inhulet bridgehead, not inhulet river. Apologies.

 

[Deyjandi_Von]

Damn, I came into this thread today because I thought that something had happened due to all the new posts. Imagine my disappointment when all I find is more bad takes than there are missing Russian uniforms.

 

[Trunx81]

Can someone explain to me how Russia can be a threat to whole Europe, while we also belittle every strategic choice their army is doing? Isn’t this a paradox?

 

[FunkMiller]

The Russian army wasn't even close to full force back then. That's the entire reason why they lost so much territory in April, they were spread way too thin. They tried to blitz the entire country and failed.

Just by looking at the number of available soldiers on both sides, I don't see how Ukraine is supposed to retake everything.

So, by your reckoning, Ukraine is going to lose to a country that fucked up its initial invasion plans, and couldn't even hold onto territory for a few weeks, despite having an overwhelming advantage in manpower and equipment during the first days of the war. They failed - as you rightly say - at the point where they had the most advantage of the entire conflict.

Further, you are now claiming that a Ukrainian army funded, equipped and trained by NATO cannot defeat a Russian army that may have more men to throw at the conflict, but they are untrained conscripts, armed with forty year old rifles, and being given tampons to staunch blood flow from wounds.

None of this is really helping your cause, is it?

 

[FunkMiller]

Can someone explain to me how Russia can be a threat to whole Europe, while we also belittle every strategic choice their army is doing? Isn’t this a paradox?

They are comprehensively not a threat to Europe.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

So, by your reckoning, Ukraine is going to lose to a country that fucked up its initial invasion plans, and couldn't even hold onto territory for a few weeks, despite having an overwhelming advantage in manpower and equipment during the first days of the war. They failed - as you rightly say - at the point where they had the most advantage of the entire conflict.

I never said they're going to lose. I'm expecting a several year long stalemate. And Russia is still holding on to a lot of territory.

Further, you are now claiming that a Ukrainian army funded, equipped and trained by NATO cannot defeat a Russian army that may have more men to throw at the conflict, but they are untrained conscripts, armed with forty year old rifles, and being given tampons to staunch blood flow from wounds.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm claiming. I just wouldn't frame it that way (NATO supersoldiers vs barbarians with sticks), this isn't Hollywood.

None of this is really helping your cause, is it?

What would that cause be?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I never said they're going to lose. I'm expecting a several year long stalemate.

That’s the thing there is no stalemate. Ukraine is liberating territory every day. Just right now Russians are abandoning one third of their claim west of the Dnieper.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Can someone explain to me how Russia can be a threat to whole Europe, while we also belittle every strategic choice their army is doing? Isn’t this a paradox?

Russia can (even without nukes) do a lot of damage if they choose to. Blowing up the Norwegian gas pipelines and torpedoing a few LNG tankers would be quite damaging and Russia can simply deny doing it, blaming the US as always.

 

[FunkMiller]

I never said they're going to lose. I'm expecting a several year long stalemate. And Russia is still holding on to a lot of territory.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm claiming. I just wouldn't frame it that way (NATO supersoldiers vs barbarians with sticks), this isn't Hollywood.

Your comment:

Your opinions are based on the belief that Ukraine can outright win this war and chase the Russians back to Russia. My opinions are based on the belief that Ukraine can not do that. That's all there is to it, no need to indulge in conspiracy theories or call people authoritarian.

You clearly stated you didn't think Ukraine could win.

And you are claiming that NATO backed Ukraine cannot beat Russia... with absolutely no evidence to suggest this is true, so what's the point in even saying it? Again, what evidence do you have of this?

This conversation is pointless, unless you can back anything you're saying up with anything other than your own brain farts.

 

[Bragr]

War is an extremely good way of winnowing out the true psychology of people, who would otherwise be able to keep it hidden. A subject that visceral, immediate and serious has a distinct way of sorting out the men from the boys, the weak from the brave, the selfless from the entitled, and the sensible from the fucking stupid.

Its a twitter post, stop being so dramatic.