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[funkygunther]

I'm not hung up on anyone, I'm talking to several people. It was just an example why people don't want to engage in the thread. More to come, likely.

you said something stupid and now you're looking for any reason other than the stupid thing you said for why you're getting the responses you're getting?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

you said something stupid and now you're looking for any reason other than the stupid thing you said for why you're getting the responses you're getting?

How is it stupid?

 

[funkygunther]

How is it stupid?

you said:

Elon is right

he's not, as has been explained yet you fail to engage with that...and then you pivot to being a Musk-whisperer to tell us what he actually means (ie what YOU actually mean)

 

[Brazen]

Imo, Russia can't be defeated without direct involvement of NATO soldiers. So the only other solution is a peace deal.

Your opinion is either ignorant of the recent weeks and differs from what top military leadership from Ukraine, US, and the UK are saying. Russia's already lost the war, logistically. There is no path to victory for them in Ukraine.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Your opinion is either ignorant of the recent weeks and differs from what top military leadership from Ukraine, US, and the UK are saying. Russia's already lost the war, logistically. There is no path to victory for them in Ukraine.

Russia can always escalate further, but probably won't. That's why I previously said that a several year long stale mate with tens of thousands of deaths is the "alternative" to a peace deal.

 

[akimbo009]

I'm not hung up on anyone, I'm talking to several people. It was just an example why people don't want to engage in the thread. More to come, likely.

Well ...

A/ you're wrong, Ukraine can win - you lose

B/ You totally are hung up. I've sadly or otherwise have been in this thread since day one.... Whether I enaged with you or not, I've engaged with your shitty ilk who think Ukraine should roll over. I supported them when we had no idea until the narrative has started to be written. It's been a debate, and engaged discussion. Just cause you're weird and shitty position has been outside-in doesn't mean it's not been "engaged".

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Well ...

A/ you're wrong, Ukraine can win - you lose

I disagree.

B/ You totally are hung up. I've sadly or otherwise have been in this thread since day one.... Whether I enaged with you or not, I've engaged with your shitty ilk who think Ukraine should roll over. I supported them when we had no idea until the narrative has started to be written. It's been a debate, and engaged discussion. Just cause you're weird and shitty position has been outside-in doesn't mean it's not been "engaged".

I don't want Ukraine to roll over, there needs to be a proper deal which guarantees the integrity of the border. That's why Elon's specific plan isn't good enough imo.

 

[Brazen]

That's why I previously said that a several year long stale mate with tens of thousands of deaths is the "alternative" to a peace deal.

The last peace deal (treaty) didn't prevent this war which has costed us hundreds of thousands of lives. You can't make peace with someone or a force that has no good will towards you.
Your next peace deal, made right now, will be no different in staying Russia's hand.

I disagree.

 

[MisterFalcon]

I don't want Ukraine to roll over, there needs to be a proper deal which guarantees the integrity of the border.

Maybe the leaders come to Budapest where they sign a document to guarantee the borders. That will do the trick.

Maybe also make sure Ukraine gets no foreign military aid as not to provoke Russia.

 

[Rentahamster]

I don't want Ukraine to roll over, there needs to be a proper deal which guarantees the integrity of the border.

1. You're endorsing a plan that would effectively make Ukraine roll over and legitimize Putin's ill-gotten gains.

2. You haven't addressed how and why your ideas would guarantee the integrity of the border when it didn't work all those other times in the past. How is your idea different and why should we have confidence that it would work when we have lots of historical precedent that says it won't?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The last peace deal (treaty) didn't prevent this war which has costed us hundreds of thousands of lives. You can't make peace with someone or a force that has no good will towards you.
Your next peace deal, made right now, will be no different in staying Russia's hand.

The last deal kinda-sorta worked for 7 years until escalations started to happen. The new deal needs to be better. Easier said than done, I know.

 

[Brazen]

The new deal needs to be better. Easier said than done, I know.

Ukraine will/is making it happen.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

1. You're endorsing a plan that would effectively make Ukraine roll over and legitimize Putin's ill-gotten gains.

I like my plan because it ensures (hopefully long-lasting) peace and because the other plan of taking back everything including Crimea will never work.

2. You haven't addressed how and why your ideas would guarantee the integrity of the border when it didn't work all those other times in the past. How is your idea different and why should we have confidence that it would work when we have lots of historical precedent that says it won't?

Ideally the peace would last long enough for Ukraine to be ready to join the EU. That would guarantee the integrity of the border.

 

[Lasha]

The last deal kinda-sorta worked for 7 years until escalations started to happen. The new deal needs to be better. Easier said than done, I know.

Worked for whom? It worked to allow Russia time to solidify and connect Crimea. It worked to further purge opposition from occupied territories. The deal didn't work at all for Ukraine.

The only peace deal Russia will understand is an armistice agreement when/if Ukraine recaptures enough territory. The border between Russia and Ukraine will be heavily militarized for the rest of our lifetimes.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Peace with Russia will happen when their capacity to wage war is gone. Everything else is a ploy for time or attempt to undermine support for Ukraine.

At this stage of the conflict Ukraine would still win if Western support stopped completely, it would just take way more lives.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Bernd Lauert in the last 30 days Ukraine has liberated 10000km2 (or a little over 2.5 million acres).

Saying now that the war should end and a peace deal should be struck reads very poorly given that the initiative has shifted towards Ukraine.

 

[Meicyn]

I like my plan because it ensures (hopefully long-lasting) peace and because the other plan of taking back everything including Crimea will never work.

Ideally the peace would last long enough for Ukraine to be ready to join the EU. That would guarantee the integrity of the border.

Your plan requires taking away Ukraine’s agency to determine their own future. It also is a bafflingly silly suggestion amidst a moment when Ukraine is successfully retaking land that was stolen from them.

I imagine Zelensky is unlikely to crowdsource suggestions from you anytime soon.

You really ought to stick to console warring.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Bernd Lauert in the last 30 days Ukraine has liberated 10000km2 (or a little over 2.5 million acres).

Saying now that the war should end and a peace deal should be struck reads very poorly given that the initiative has shifted towards Ukraine.

Ukraine certainly has the momentum, but this also led to Putin escalating the conflict further by annexing a bunch of land and conscribing 300k (or so) additional soldiers. I don't see much reason for optimism despite Ukraine's gains.

 

[MisterFalcon]

The Russian armed forces are in no state to actually deploy these 300k people in effective formations for the next six months. If ever.

Those 300k are mostly sitting in a field somewhere in Russia getting drunk. Some who were unlucky enough to live close to Ukraine have already been sent to the front, been killed or captured. The rate of Russian military collapse has not gone down at all.

 

[Meicyn]

300k (or so) additional soldiers

Meat for the grinder. Grabbing random civilians, giving them barebones training, little to no equipment, and maybe some guns does not make for an army.

Saddam Hussein had a 950,000 man Army in Desert Storm. They were bulldozed. Quantity doesn’t mean shit in modern warfare.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Ukraine certainly has the momentum, but this also led to Putin escalating the conflict further by annexing a bunch of land and conscribing 300k (or so) additional soldiers. I don't see much reason for optimism despite Ukraine's gains.

The annexing is meaningless, it’s a publicity stunt. And the mobilized soldiers… they don’t have equipment for them, not even uniforms.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Putin signing the annexation reminds me of those Sovereign Citizens who wave a piece of paper in court that somehow gets them out of everything. As if it's a magic scroll that can alter reality.

 

[Meicyn]

Putin signing the annexation reminds me of those Sovereign Citizens who wave a piece of paper in court that somehow gets them out of everything. As if it's a magic scroll that can alter reality.

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

The annexing is meaningless, it’s a publicity stunt. And the mobilized soldiers… they don’t have equipment for them, not even uniforms.

Theyre freezing to death as we speak.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Meat for the grinder. Grabbing random civilians, giving them barebones training, little to no equipment, and maybe some guns does not make for an army.

Saddam Hussein had a 950,000 man Army in Desert Storm. They were bulldozed. Quantity doesn’t mean shit in modern warfare.

"All those precision weapons and gadgets and gizmos and stealth fighters are not going to make it possible to reconquer Kuwait without many thousands of casualties. The US Army's armored and mechanized forces can play no offensive role against the vast defensive strength of the Iraqi Army"
-Edward Luttwak, December 1990

 

[winjer]

NVIDIA Shuts Down All GPU Operations & Main Office In Russia

In a report by RT (via Forbes), it is reported that NVIDIA has shut down all GPU operations within Russia due to the ongoing war with Ukraine.

wccftech.com

NVIDIA Quits Russia Once & For All, Main Office & GPU Operations Shut Down​

The decision to shut down the office, which employed some 300 people in Russia before the conflict between Moscow and Kiev broke out in late February, was made due to the “inability to ensure effective work from its employees.”

While the ranks have dwindled since then, the company still employs some 240 people in Russia, the Nvidia representative told the magazine, adding that the decision was announced to employees on September 30.

Nvidia is now “actively taking out on charter planes those who agree to relocate to offices in other countries,” according to the source. The relocation scheme, however, has not been officially confirmed.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Meat for the grinder. Grabbing random civilians, giving them barebones training, little to no equipment, and maybe some guns does not make for an army.

Most of them are not random civilians.

Saddam Hussein had a 950,000 man Army in Desert Storm. They were bulldozed. Quantity doesn’t mean shit in modern warfare.

Weird comparison. You think Russia is Iraq and Ukraine is the US?

 

[Bernd Lauert]

The annexing is meaningless, it’s a publicity stunt.

It's far from meaningless. It's being used as justification for further escalation.

 

[FunkMiller]

I like my plan because it ensures (hopefully long-lasting) peace and because the other plan of taking back everything including Crimea will never work.

Would you support any peace deal that brings this war to a conclusion as quickly as possible?

 

[nemiroff]

The last deal kinda-sorta worked for 7 years until escalations started to happen. The new deal needs to be better. Easier said than done, I know.

15000 dead isn't kinda-sorta worked. Ukraine was in a state of peace (but already fighting corruption and russkiy mir) until ruzzia invaded in 2014.

And btw, Elon's "peace deal" would mean a lifetime of oppression and torture for the Ukrainians, to be replaced by ruzzians annexing their homes, for then to eventually be wiped in a genocide ...And then the same for Georgia... And then the same for Moldova... And then the same for...

 

[FunkMiller]

Relevant to current conversation:




Any position that advocates for a negotiatied peace that may allow Russia to hold on to any Ukrainian land is a pro-Russian position.

Time for people to understand this.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

It's far from meaningless. It's being used as justification for further escalation.

Oh no. The escalation is due to internal pressures as a result of the disaster that is the Ukraine campaign.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Weird comparison. You think Russia is Iraq and Ukraine is the US?

The Russian army of 2020 and Iraqi army of 1990 are mostly T-72 tanks with massive artillery support, ballisitic missiles and a shitty air force. The old Soviet model.
While the Ukrainian Army is not nearly as strong as the US one was, it has been working hard since 2014 to move away from the old Soviet model and come up with a more flexible force which enables it to beat a larger one.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Any position that advocates for a negotiatied peace that may allow Russia to hold on to any Ukrainian land is a pro-Russian position.

No, it's a pro-peace position.

 

[MisterFalcon]

No, it's a pro-peace position.

Until the next war. Russia will just say the Nazis are planning new invasions of Russia.

 

[prinz_valium]

Relevant to current conversation:




Any position that advocates for a negotiatied peace that may allow Russia to hold on to any Ukrainian land is a pro-Russian position.

Time for people to understand this.

Imagine thinking who "holds the land" matters the most.
That's the stance of imperialistic nation states and the exact reason we have this war and those issues in history since forever

The only thing that matters is how people can live in peace and suffering ends.
Not matter if Russia "controls" the land, Ukraine "controls" the land, or it would be self-govern.
The people who live there and own the land, actually "own the land" and should control their faith.

 

[ItsGreat]

The Russian army of 2020 and Iraqi army of 1990 are mostly T-72 tanks with massive artillery support, ballisitic missiles and a shitty air force. The old Soviet model.
While the Ukrainian Army is not nearly as strong as the US one was, it has been working hard since 2014 to move away from the old Soviet model and come up with a more flexible force which enables it to beat a larger one.

You're forgetting how great a part the American air force played in 1990. They destroyed the whole infrastructure of the Iraqi defence and organisation.
The Ukrainians don't have that luxury. Which is where the concerns about a perpetual meat grinder come from.

Victory Through Air Power

When President Bush reversed his immediate reaction to Iraq's August 2, 1990 invasion of Kuwait (he had originally ruled out any use of force), the chairman of the Joint Chiefs

www.commentary.org

Note that's it's another Luttwak piece...

 

[Azurro]

Ukraine certainly has the momentum, but this also led to Putin escalating the conflict further by annexing a bunch of land and conscribing 300k (or so) additional soldiers. I don't see much reason for optimism despite Ukraine's gains.

Man, your takes here are even worse than when you are console warring. Those people Putin is conscripting aren't soldiers, they are random people with no training or had military service 15 or 20 years ago, they are cannon fodder that won't make a difference militarily.

Your suggestion now when Ukraine is on the initiative is insane. Are your thoughts and opinions so limited and idiotic across all topics, or is it just a coincidence?

 

[DJ12]

Far from giving up their own land Ukraine should take a mile off Russia for the entire length of the border and use that as a dmz. And fill it with landmines.

 

[Ironbunny]

ruZZia is expected to start some more crazy talk soon

 

[MisterFalcon]

You're forgetting how great a part the American air force played in 1990. They destroyed the whole infrastructure of the Iraqi defence and organisation.
The Ukrainians don't have that luxury. Which is where the concerns about a perpetual meat grinder come from.

http://[URL]https://www.commentary.org/articles/edward-luttwak-2/victory-through-air-power/

[/URL]

Note that's it's another Luttwak piece...

Iraq was also supposed to have the most advanced air defence system in the world back in 1990.

 

[RJMacready73]

Imo, Russia can't be defeated without direct involvement of NATO soldiers. So the only other solution is a peace deal.

Have you been following this war on anything other than RT.com?? Russia are being defeated left right and center, the Ukrainains are walking all over them ffs, open your eyes you muppet, you dont sue for peace with a cunt like Putin whilst you are winning..

fucking hell some people havent a fucking clue

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Man, your takes here are even worse than when you are console warring. Those people Putin is conscripting aren't soldiers, they are random people with no training or had military service 15 or 20 years ago, they are cannon fodder that won't make a difference militarily.

I disagree that 300k soldiers won't make a difference.

Your suggestion now when Ukraine is on the initiative is insane.

Negotiating from a position of power actually makes total sense.

Are your thoughts and opinions so limited and idiotic across all topics, or is it just a coincidence?

I get it right like 90% of the time

 

[Bernd Lauert]

ruZZia is expected to start some more crazy talk soon

As long as it's just talk. We don't want to live in a world where "tactical nukes" are a thing.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Negotiating from a position of power actually makes total sense.

Negotiating with a side that has shown itself to be totally unreliable makes no sense.

 

[Darius87]

It's far from meaningless. It's being used as justification for further escalation.

what's justification for phosforus munition? what's justification on bombing civilians and it's infrastructure? what's justification on torturing civilians?
russia doesn't need any justification for anything they do or any weapon they use. All this land anexation is just for russia brainwashed public to increase ratings for putin remember how his rating increased after crimea annexation? now when ukraine taking it's land back putin desperately needs to be popular.

 

[DJ12]

I disagree that 300k soldiers won't make a difference.

Negotiating from a position of power actually makes total sense.

I get it right like 90% of the time

Russia professional troops are being wiped out, you think people with 2 years national service years ago, being sent to the front with little or no equipment are going to make a difference?

If the goal is to run down the Ukraine armies supply of bullets, then you might have a point, but pretty sure the west will keep them well stocked.

 

[Azurro]

I disagree that 300k soldiers won't make a difference.

Negotiating from a position of power actually makes total sense.

I get it right like 90% of the time

300k+ will slow down the war a bit, but it won't make much of a difference. FYI, the actual text of the mobilization allows for up to a million+, if Putin can find them.

I just love your boot licking for Putin that calls for them to keep the occupied territories and handwaves away the murders, raping and kidnapping of Ukranian people, when Ukraine has taken more territory back in 1 month than Putin did in 4, they have a manpower advantage, they have more modern systems and better equipment and are continuously making progress.

Didn't know you were a big fan of imperialism, rape and murder, your takes are certainly 90% correct if that's the case. You are so stupid that you don't even realise that Russia's information propaganda is manipulating you.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Russian Nuclear units on the move.

Is it time to start stockpiling toilet paper yet?

I only ask because I'm about to finalise my online shopping delivery for this week...not getting caught out like 2020, no sir!

 

[captainnapalm]

The narrative around this war is insane and it's being heavily manipulated on social media. Americans better wake up quickly. Escalating this war is insanity. It's a matter of life and death for Russia - a nuclear power, by the way - and they are not going to allow themselves to get beaten in any real sense.

The crazy bastards who control the Western powers and pull the strings of the puppet government in Ukraine are trying to make you think this war is winnable because they love war, they love making money on war, and they may actually be crazy enough to want to effect regime change in Russia - an insanely dangerous tactic by any measure. Meanwhile, they're bombing their own allies' pipelines without giving a fuck. Christ, these are dangerous times.