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[Nobody_Important]

I hope so. But we are only year one. Hard to say the support will remain in years three and five.

Especially now that the likely hood of the war lasting that long is high. Yet we still have no news about Ukrainians getting trained on Western fighters. They have plenty of time to learn now so there should be no excuse.

NATO has a vested interest in the survival of Ukraine both economically and politically.


Zelenskyy and Ukraine as a whole is an icon now. Any failure by the west to aid them will be met with friction.

 

[Meicyn]

I hope so. But we are only year one. Hard to say the support will remain in years three and five.

Don’t agree in the slightest. Supporting Ukraine is a key tenet of the US national security strategy, and the unclassified version of it is available for reading.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Biden-Harris-Administrations-National-Security-Strategy-10.2022.pdf

This is further reinforced by the fact that the latest defense bill increases aid not only to Ukraine, but Taiwan as well. Success in Ukraine is about way more than just Ukraine, and losing to Russia is not an option, just as losing is not an option for Putin.

The United States threw away insane amounts of money and deployed troops in Afghanistan for over a decade. Ukraine support costs a pittance comparatively and requires zero troops on the ground. This situation frankly doesn’t qualify as a test of the west’s resolve when the United States can figuratively throw pocket change at the problem and fuck up Russia’s influence on the world stage while making China rethink their own approach.

 

[RJMacready73]

I would be more confident in the outlook of the war if the west actually gave Ukraine the weapons they've been asking months for now. Tanks, Jets, and ATACMS. Instead many of these countries even within Europe are scraping the bottom of the barrel and dropping off their junk that has little use in a modern conflict. And somehow NATO's weapon stocks are already running low which is ridiculous and it'll be a while before many of those countries feel bothered to start up production of essential ammunition like 152mm/155mm artillery ammo that Ukraine has been burning through.

Don't even get me started on useful idiots like Macron and Orban who are constantly yelling about peace but are essentially going to be throwing Ukraine to the wolves and ensuring there won't be any long term peace and stability in Europe.

Putin and his goons on the other hand are 100% committed to the war and that could be the difference in the long term. They have no problem with dragging it out for as long as possible while escalating with further mobilization and infrastructure strikes when necessary. The cracks in the west on the other hand are becoming more and more visible with every day and I can definitely see it getting to a point within the next year where the military aid to Ukraine either decreases or stops altogether.

NATO can't risk modern offensive weaponry falling into Russian hands and therefore China/Iran/NK and every other cuntfuck regime, it ain't rocket science lad, besides NATO has plenty of old stock that Ukraine are wiping the floor of the Russians with anyways.

As for dragging this out, Putin can drag it out for as long he wants the only ones who are gonna suffer are dumbass fucking Russians too stupid to realize they are being well and truly fucked. Ukraine has massive oil and gas reserves alongwith huge amounts of farmable land all of which is incredibly saught after by the EU/West as it's right on their doorstep contained within a country that wants to be a: a member of the EU and b: most importantly a democracy, Ukraine is a net bonus to the West no matter how much money they pour into it, they ain't giving it up and Putin knows it and until the Russian zombies wake up he'll continue to throw their useless lives against a wall of death that will never run out of money

 

[Tams]

Don’t agree in the slightest. Supporting Ukraine is a key tenet of the US national security strategy, and the unclassified version of it is available for reading.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Biden-Harris-Administrations-National-Security-Strategy-10.2022.pdf

This is further reinforced by the fact that the latest defense bill increases aid not only to Ukraine, but Taiwan as well. Success in Ukraine is about way more than just Ukraine, and losing to Russia is not an option, just as losing is not an option for Putin.

The United States threw away insane amounts of money and deployed troops in Afghanistan for over a decade. Ukraine support costs a pittance comparatively and requires zero troops on the ground. This situation frankly doesn’t qualify as a test of the west’s resolve when the United States can figuratively throw pocket change at the problem and fuck up Russia’s influence on the world stage while making China rethink their own approach.

So much this.

While it would be great if Russia had just stayed in their own territory, they haven't. And it would be great that Ukraine did not have to suffer, but they are.

It really couldn't be better for the US and the rest of the 'West'. This is the most cost-effective and efficient way to weaken Russia and to deter China.

 

[Liljagare]

RuSSia is unfortunately able to produce new missiles, either they have a large storage of the parts needed, or they have found a way around the sanctions and embargos. The CAR group (Conflict Armament Reasearch) found parts from several wreckages who's serial numbers points to the Kh-101 being produced atleast as late as in november.

(only sauce I found was in my swedish morning news so far, https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/putin-misstanks-hittat-kryphal-i-sanktionerna-producerar-robotar/).

 

[Ozriel]

Its not about Russia here
If Western countries succeed in restricting the price of Russian oil we can say goodbye to OPEC and determining the
price of this commodity becomes in the hands of NATO countries

Western countries put sanctions on North Korea and Iran. Did that spread to every other country in the Middle East and Asia?

When the world began to push back against Blood Diamonds, did it affect any other markets that weren't built off blood of innocents?

The guy from Oman is just being glib.

 

[Tams]

RuSSia is unfortunately able to produce new missiles, either they have a large storage of the parts needed, or they have found a way around the sanctions and embargos. The CAR group (Conflict Armament Reasearch) found parts from several wreckages who's serial numbers points to the Kh-101 being produced atleast as late as in november.

(only sauce I found was in my swedish morning news so far, https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/putin-misstanks-hittat-kryphal-i-sanktionerna-producerar-robotar/).

No one with any credibility has been saying they won't be able to produce new missiles. We're talking about the physically largest country in the world, with considerable amounts of money and manpower. Of course they can.

Rather, it's the rate at which they can produce them. And judging by the number they are firing, and what they are firing (such as nuclear missiles without their nuclear warheads); we can tell that they have serious supply issues.

 

[Dr.D00p]

If Western countries succeed in restricting the price of Russian oil we can say goodbye to OPEC and determining the
price of this commodity becomes in the hands of NATO countries

You say this like its a bad thing.

Long overdue and simply Realpolitik.

 

[Liljagare]

There are burning army barracks on Crimea, probarly drunk orcs though.. (only seing it on swedish news as of yet, https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Rr77qd/aftonbladet-direkt?pinnedEntry=1016986).edit, found another source:

 

[Lunarorbit]

NATO can't risk modern offensive weaponry falling into Russian hands and therefore China/Iran/NK and every other cuntfuck regime, it ain't rocket science lad, besides NATO has plenty of old stock that Ukraine are wiping the floor of the Russians with anyways.

As for dragging this out, Putin can drag it out for as long he wants the only ones who are gonna suffer are dumbass fucking Russians too stupid to realize they are being well and truly fucked. Ukraine has massive oil and gas reserves alongwith huge amounts of farmable land all of which is incredibly saught after by the EU/West as it's right on their doorstep contained within a country that wants to be a: a member of the EU and b: most importantly a democracy, Ukraine is a net bonus to the West no matter how much money they pour into it, they ain't giving it up and Putin knows it and until the Russian zombies wake up he'll continue to throw their useless lives against a wall of death that will never run out of money

So much this.

While it would be great if Russia had just stayed in their own territory, they haven't. And it would be great that Ukraine did not have to suffer, but they are.

It really couldn't be better for the US and the rest of the 'West'. This is the most cost-effective and efficient way to weaken Russia and to deter China.

I agree with both of you. Russia is in an unwinnable position and it's been obvious for at least half a year. War has changed so much since the gulf War and citizens access to information worldwide just keeps going up.

As an American this is much different than iraq/Afghanistan: there's a large sustainable coalition against Russia, outrage over supporting Ukraine is minimal and usually from bad actors, even with global economy shitty/pandemic hangover war supply production doesn't go down.

Eventually Russia will be beaten back to their own country. It's scary to think how desperate putin might get

 

[TwinB242]

NATO can't risk modern offensive weaponry falling into Russian hands and therefore China/Iran/NK and every other cuntfuck regime, it ain't rocket science lad, besides NATO has plenty of old stock that Ukraine are wiping the floor of the Russians with anyways.

As for dragging this out, Putin can drag it out for as long he wants the only ones who are gonna suffer are dumbass fucking Russians too stupid to realize they are being well and truly fucked. Ukraine has massive oil and gas reserves alongwith huge amounts of farmable land all of which is incredibly saught after by the EU/West as it's right on their doorstep contained within a country that wants to be a: a member of the EU and b: most importantly a democracy, Ukraine is a net bonus to the West no matter how much money they pour into it, they ain't giving it up and Putin knows it and until the Russian zombies wake up he'll continue to throw their useless lives against a wall of death that will never run out of money

The U.S. actually sabotaged their HIMARS to keep Ukraine from firing into Russian territory. They're being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their back. The thinking that leads to decisions like that is not going to benefit Ukraine.

 

[akimbo009]

The U.S. actually sabotaged their HIMARS to keep Ukraine from firing into Russian territory. They're being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their back. The thinking that leads to decisions like that is not going to benefit Ukraine.

What.... This isn't true. The US didn't supply them with longer range rockets and didn't equip them with the longer range targeting systems for those rockets. It's not sabatoge.

Yeesh.

 

[RJMacready73]

The U.S. actually sabotaged their HIMARS to keep Ukraine from firing into Russian territory. They're being forced to fight with one hand tied behind their back. The thinking that leads to decisions like that is not going to benefit Ukraine.

Sabotage? What are you smoking mate, it's all down to the missiles supplied and the West is in supplying exactly what the Ukrainian army needs within reason, the US doesn't want US made missiles reigning down on actual russian territory, that gives Putin a propaganda win to feed the zombie populace, better to let Ukraine develop its own long range strike capability with no doubt a ton of help from Nato.. having said that the fact that Ukr has managed to fire a few old ass drones deep into Russian airspace and actually hit some planes is incredible, jesus can you imagine what the US could do with it's stealth bombers/drones

 

[Facism]

 

[TwinB242]

What.... This isn't true. The US didn't supply them with longer range rockets and didn't equip them with the longer range targeting systems for those rockets. It's not sabatoge.

Yeesh.

There was a story about this recently. The HIMARs launchers were modified so they wouldn't be able to fire long range rockets at all, but it also seems highly likely that the standard 80km rockets Ukraine was provided cannot be fired into Russian territory either

US reportedly made sure HIMARS given to Ukraine couldn't fire long-range missiles

The US has made clear that all weapons it provides Ukraine are meant to strike targets inside Ukraine, not Russia.

taskandpurpose.com

However, it is possible that the U.S. military has taken steps to ensure that the GMLRS rockets provided to Ukraine cannot strike targets inside of Russia, said retired Marine Col. Mark Cancian, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

 

[akimbo009]

There was a story about this recently. The HIMARs launchers were modified so they wouldn't be able to fire long range rockets at all, but it also seems highly likely that the standard 80km rockets Ukraine was provided cannot be fired into Russian territory either

US reportedly made sure HIMARS given to Ukraine couldn't fire long-range missiles

The US has made clear that all weapons it provides Ukraine are meant to strike targets inside Ukraine, not Russia.

taskandpurpose.com

That's not sabotage.

 

[TwinB242]

That's not sabotage.

Whatever word you want to use, it doesn't matter. The point is Ukraine can't use HIMARS to attack Russia even though there's probably loads of juicy military targets within 80km in the Belgorod and Kursk regions.

There's also pretty much 0 chance that the U.S. or any other country will provide ATACMS since the launchers can't even fire them in the first place.

 

[akimbo009]

Whatever word you want to use, it doesn't matter. The point is Ukraine can't use HIMARS to attack Russia even though there's probably loads of juicy military targets within 80km in the Belgorod and Kursk regions.

There's also pretty much 0 chance that the U.S. or any other country will provide ATACMS since the launchers can't even fire them in the first place.

Words matter, the US isn't sabotaging weapons it provides Ukraine.

 

[TwinB242]

Words matter, the US isn't sabotaging weapons it provides Ukraine.

Look up the definition of sabotage


sab·o·tage
[ˈsabəˌtäZH]

VERB

1. deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

They obstructed Ukraine's ability to use HIMARS to fire into Russia, because of fears of political escalation with Russia. That sounds a lot like the definition.

 

[Susurrus]

There are burning army barracks on Crimea, probarly drunk orcs though.. (only seing it on swedish news as of yet, https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/Rr77qd/aftonbladet-direkt?pinnedEntry=1016986).edit, found another source:

Well, they were struggling to keep warm. Problem solved.

 

[akimbo009]

Look up the definition of sabotage


sab·o·tage
[ˈsabəˌtäZH]

VERB

1. deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

They obstructed Ukraine's ability to use HIMARS to fire into Russia, because of fears of political escalation with Russia. That sounds a lot like the definition.

The fuck is wrong with you. The US and NATO intentionally not selling weapons or capabilities isn't sabatoge. I have no fucking idea what your angle is but whatever it is, it's stupid.

 

[TwinB242]

The fuck is wrong with you. The US and NATO intentionally not selling weapons or capabilities isn't sabatoge. I have no fucking idea what your angle is but whatever it is, it's stupid.

They gave Ukraine equipment that they altered so its far less effective. Im not sure how you can continue to act like thats not a bad thing.

 

[akimbo009]

They gave Ukraine equipment that they altered so its far less effective. Im not sure how you can continue to act like thats not a bad thing.

They didn't alter it. Its normal short range variant. There's nothing omitted, it's short range rockets and targeting systems. There are longer range versions, they didn't get them.

This isn't hard to understand. The US simply hasn't sold those longer range variants but they didn't "modify" anything.

It's not a bad thing cause it is what the US intends. The US isn't "sabotaging" Ukraine. It's a bullshit accusation.

 

[TwinB242]

They didn't alter it. Its normal short range variant. There's nothing omitted, it's short range rockets and targeting systems. There are longer range versions, they didn't get them.

This isn't hard to understand. The US simply hasn't sold those longer range variants but they didn't "modify" anything.

It's not a bad thing cause it is what the US intends. The US isn't "sabotaging" Ukraine. It's a bullshit accusation.

The short range rockets cannot be fired into Russia. That is a limitation. Russia is likely parking a bunch of equipment and bases along their borders and Ukraine cannot get to them even if they are in range of the standard rockets.

 

[akimbo009]

The short range rockets cannot be fired into Russia. That is a limitation. Russia is likely parking a bunch of equipment and bases along their borders and Ukraine cannot get to them even if they are in range of the standard rockets.

Yeah, cause we don't want Ukraine to start bombing Russia cause that could be an escalation and lead to something unintended. Right now, they won't get long range weapons - but they may, and that'll be a strategic decision not sabatoge.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

"Russia must be desolate to remain united. Any region growing too much might threaten the power of Moscow. So Moscow must keep everyone poor to maintain integrity of the empire."​

twitter.com/kamilk...

So Ruzzia is pretty much

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Anyone who falls for this is

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Take it with a huge pile of salt:

Vladimir Putin To Undergo 'Emergency Colon Surgery' After Rumors Russian Leader Fell Down Stairs & 'Soiled Himself'​

msn.com/en-us/...

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

You cannot be serious....

 

[TwinB242]

edit: nvm

 

[W11d]

 

[Tams]

The U.S. actually sabotaged their HIMARS

What the fuck are you talking about?!

You either don't know what 'sabotage' means or you are being disingenuous. I'm inclined to believe the latter, in which case fuck off.

Limiting the capability of something is not sabotage. The HIMARs and M270s Ukraine have work exactly as they are supposed to and do for others.

 

[Meicyn]

Look up the definition of sabotage


sab·o·tage
[ˈsabəˌtäZH]

VERB

1. deliberately destroy, damage, or obstruct (something), especially for political or military advantage

They obstructed Ukraine's ability to use HIMARS to fire into Russia, because of fears of political escalation with Russia. That sounds a lot like the definition.

This is an absurd application, because the implication is that Ukraine is the enemy when they clearly are not. Sabotage and espionage are generally linked activities, because subterfuge involves the affected party not being directly informed of what will happen. Ukraine is 100% in the know on what they are getting, and the constraints in place. This is no more complicated than telling your teenage son that yes, they can use the car tonight, but they have to be home by midnight, and they have to take condoms.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Russian 12-Year-Old Said To Get Military Sign-Up Order​

rferl.org/a/russ...

Not surprised if real.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Russian 12-Year-Old Said To Get Military Sign-Up Order​

rferl.org/a/russ...

Not surprised if real.

Saddest part is that his parents will probably want him to go and proudly serve the Motherland.

...and they'll take the Lada in Mercury Blue with the optional mudflaps.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Truth bombs all over the place

 

[sinnergy]

Saddest part is that his parents will probably want him to go and proudly serve the Motherland.

...and they'll take the Lada in Mercury Blue with the optional mudflaps.

Lada, I remember I saw one here in the 90s in The Netherlands , some old folks bought it, it only missed a canon at least Russian stuff was international back than

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I do not want to get too hopeful, but it seems that finally something is moving in the Luhansk front. As always reminder to take it with a grain of salt not because it might necessarily be not true, but because the frontline is fluid.

Ukrainian forces have adanced enough that they are in or on the outskirts of the cities on the P66 next to Kreminna.

This comes directly from the ukrainian armed forces, in their daily report of places where they repelled attacks.

 

[Liljagare]

And, not shedding a single tear:

 

[IndoAssassin]

Bad day for Ukraine lost several days of progress from hordes of new recruits

 

[Valedix]

 

[Kraz]

15.9 to 1 personnel/apv now. That ratio was just edging up to 11 to 1 before the last mobilization.

Truth bombs all over the place

A video circulating a few months back of a Russian conscript being slapped in the head during their "training" trying to get them to hate Ukrainians instead of Kazakhs seemed to show Russians depleted some of the pool they'd been firing up with ethnic hatred for that war.

The mobik looked like he thought he was being tested and believed if said if he hated Ukrainians he'd get beat harder.

 

[Darius87]

 

[LimanimaPT]

This numbers are just crazy...

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

This numbers are just crazy...

If you assume a conservative 1:2 ratio (for every dead soldier, 2 died from wounds or become incapacitated for war) you're looking at almost 300k orcs out of commission.

All this just to satisfy the imperial ambitions of one man.

 

[LimanimaPT]

If you assume a conservative 1:2 ratio (for every dead soldier, 2 died from wounds or become incapacitated for war) you're looking at almost 300k orcs out of commission.

All this just to satisfy the imperial ambitions of one man.

What bothers me is that the Ukraninan numbers are probably also heavy...

 

[IDKFA]

What bothers me is that the Ukraninan numbers are probably also heavy...

Most likely they're both similar. it's impossible to gage a true figure in any ongoing conflict as both sides will understate the figures..

Last month, the US stated that both Ukraine and Russia have suffered up to 100k killed and wounded military personnel. That's probably an accurate figure, but again it's impossible to say for sure.

100,000 Russian troops killed or injured in Ukraine, US says

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff says Russia's announced retreat from Kherson in southern Ukraine and a potential stalemate in fighting over the winter could provide both countries an opportunity to negotiate peace.

apnews.com

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

Maybe they can use the cream on the wounds XD

 

[EviLore]