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[Count Dookkake]

I know most debate tricks and this is one of the bad ones. Acting all cryptic about what you "meant" to say to appear wise is kind of lame, don't you think?

If you felt I was being cryptic, then I am truly sorry for you.

Take care.

 

[fortified_concept]

If you felt I was being cryptic, then I am truly sorry for you.

Take care.

Not at first, but you definitely are now (since post #180 to be precise) that you have been proven wrong.

Nice btw, you took out of context yet another post of mine.

 

[Frank "Trashman" Reynolds]

Ok, here it is:

You will either

a) continue posting here tonight and prove me 100% right about you being an attention hound

or you will

b) stop posting here tonight, in some misplaced effort to prove me wrong, and deny yourself the ability to continue to be argumentative like you really want to be.

Your pick.

I can't win either way. Guess I'm an attention whore.

 

[G-Fex]

Good job putting Cameron at center of attention once more.

Anyways it's hilarious knowing the man is so sensitive.

But in a way I'm glad this didn't happen, why? Cause that stupid guy needs to ..really go away.

 

[Discotheque]

Whoa, so does it enrage you when game reviewers bend over backwards for a game that comes out to a large amount of hype and then delivers the goods?

I'm not sure why this makes you so mad.

No, I don't take game reviewers seriously anymore. They review everything on a scale of 8-10. If it's mega hyped it will at least get a 9 regardless of whether it's any good or not.

 

[Dead]

One thing that enrages me about Avatar is just how far critics had to bend over backward for the film.

I thought it was fairly enjoyable but that's about it. Not something I could go back to again and enjoy big time like I could with say Aliens or the Terminator films or even True Lies.

When you read all the reviews they basically say "Story and characters and everything fucking important for a film is dogshit. Oh yeah but it's pretty, very pretty in fact. Forget about the story enjoy the visuals"

I'm not comparing the films here but by that logic shouldn't Transformers have a 80 percent approval rating right about now?

if you can't honestly tell the difference, then, uhhh :lol

 

[Discotheque]

That's why I said I'm not comparing films here. It's a bit too insulting to call Avatar 'transformers-like' entertainment. And I wouldn't really be giving Cameron any credit.

But really all the critics sounded like they actually disliked the film from everything but a visual perspective.

 

[Evlar]

That's why I said I'm not comparing films here. It's a bit too insulting to call Avatar 'transformers-like' entertainment. And I wouldn't really be giving Cameron any credit.

But really all the critics sounded like they actually disliked the film from everything but a visual perspective.

.

At 163 minutes, the film doesn't feel too long. It contains so much. The human stories. The Na'vi stories, for the Na'vi are also developed as individuals. The complexity of the planet, which harbors a global secret. The ultimate warfare, with Jake joining the resistance against his former comrades. Small graceful details like a floating creature that looks like a cross between a blowing dandelion seed and a drifting jellyfish, and embodies goodness. Or astonishing floating cloud-islands.

I've complained that many recent films abandon story telling in their third acts and go for wall-to-wall action. Cameron essentially does that here, but has invested well in establishing his characters so that it matters what they do in battle and how they do it. There are issues at stake greater than simply which side wins.

 

[Dead]

That's why I said I'm not comparing films here. It's a bit too insulting to call Avatar 'transformers-like' entertainment. And I wouldn't really be giving Cameron any credit.

But really all the critics sounded like they actually disliked the film from everything but a visual perspective.

dislike?

some quotes from RTs Top critics (94%):

I had the feeling coming out of this movie that I haven’t felt since maybe I was eleven years old in 1977 and I saw Star Wars for the first time.

Watching it, I began to understand how people in 1933 must have felt when they saw King Kong.

Big money, big risk, pretty big reward. That's been his consistent pattern, and it's high time to give credit where credit is overdue: James Cameron delivers.

Twelve years after his triumph with Titanic, Cameron has successfully made a digital blockbuster feel as warm as an old-time movie, where blood temperature was more important than pixels.

I have seen the future of movies, and it is Avatar.

The film vibrates with the excitement of discovery and awe. Not just for the sight of six-legged rhinos and butterfly-hued dragons, but for the thousands of hours of work that unite here in a creative epiphany.

Combining beyond-state-of-the-art moviemaking with a tried-and-true storyline and a gamer-geek sensibility -- not to mention a love angle, an otherworldly bestiary, and an arsenal of 22d-century weaponry -- the movie quite simply rocks.

Avatar is an entertainment to be not just seen but absorbed on a molecular level; it’s as close to a full-body experience as we’ll get until they invent the holo-suits. Cameron aims for sheer wonderment, and he delivers.

James Cameron's Avatar is the most beautiful film I’ve seen in years.

It's an impossible but completely plausible and seductive world that invites your total immersion. Don't resist it; sink in and fly with it. All Cameron asks is that you open your eyes.

etc etc.

Are there shortcomings in the plot and character? Yes. Are they flat out bad? Of course not. Does that affect the near transcendent experience of watching 3D Avatar in cinemas? Obviously for the large majority of the world, both audience wise, and critics wise, no.

Maybe you can't appreciate the visual wonder of the film, but the experience itself is the Substance. Avatar is made to enchant movie goers, and theres no denying that its succeeded in doing that moreso than any other movie in the past decade.

 

[tino]

Why would he want to walk out now that his chance of winning the Oscar has boosted thanks to the Hurt Locker producer?

Plus, he has to play nice just because he has to sell Avatar 2 to the public a few years down the road. That public "scene" could have make a 100 million dollar difference to his pocket book. People don't use their brain to think.

And you know what, that REDLETTERMedia guy is right, Cameron made Avatar because he wanted to prove he is a better George Lucas than Lucas, not because he particular care about this subject matter. He cared about Titanic in a much deeper personal level than this Alien world. You guys put too much thought into the philosophy of Avatar.

 

[Monocle]

3) Someone actually explains what makes Avatar any good apart from the visuals and billions it has made... and then I walk way.


Hell, I think I'm done anyway. Avatar isn't good enough to be worth my time. I'm going to grab some dinner with the girl. Maybe while eating we'll watch some superior cinematography to Avatar, such as Zoolander.

There are hundreds of positive reviews for Avatar available for free online, not to mention countless discussion threads, including a rather large one on this very forum. If you care so much about learning why most people consider Avatar a good film (and let's be real, the only reason you want us to explain it to you here is so you can prolong your spiteful ravings), find out yourself. No one here is obligated to fulfill your childish demands. Stamp your feet elsewhere.

 

[JzeroT1437]

Skit sounded stupid. Cameron is pretty arrogant. The Oscars are overlong, overrated accolades that will be forgotten within 6 months of broadcast, just like every year.

 

[DanteFox]

Avatar's main appeal to me was being immersed in a sort of fantasy world in 3D with cool effects. That's what I kept hearing about through word of mouth, and I did not leave the theater disappointed. So mission accomplished in my book.

But yeah the plot was cliche and far from oscar-worthy (thought that didn't stop me one bit from enjoying it).

 

[Ollie Pooch]

And you know what, that REDLETTERMedia guy is right, Cameron made Avatar because he wanted to prove he is a better George Lucas than Lucas, not because he particular care about this subject matter. He cared about Titanic in a much deeper personal level than this Alien world. You guys put too much thought into the philosophy of Avatar.

given his drawn-out rant about the Na'Vi at comic-con, i wouldn't be so sure.

 

[SpacLock]

Award show humor always fucking sucks anyway. The scene described in the OP sounds retarded. This is an award show for the whole movie industry, you know, the storyboard artists, the lighters, the cameramen, the makeup artists, the directors, actors, writers, marketing staffs, etc. It's not just about the fucking people everybody knows of. But those award shows always end up feeling like they were MTV productions.

Doesn't mean that Cameron has to be a whiny little bitch about it.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Doesn't mean that Cameron has to be a whiny little bitch about it.

...it never actually happened.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Fuckin' Avatar. Just give it it's completely underserved awards and shut the fuck up about it, industry.

 

[neorej]

I'm sure Cameron would've been able to laugh it off when he received his oscar.

 

[Buckethead]

Borat voice: IM THE KING OF THE JEWSSSSSSS

 

[muntersaur]

So you who are defending the movie for example, found the dialogue intriguing, the love story deep, the characters complicated and interesting and the story original?

OK

The main defining factor of a movie is moving pictures. If all the above factors of a movie were excellent but the visual experience was poor (awful lightning, cinematography, editing etc), the film would unequivocally be rubbish no matter how great the script or original the story.

Avatar is not extraordinary because of its story, or its dialogue, but because it delivered a visual experience unlike any other before it. This film is the equivalent of the 'cinema of attractions' for the modern age, where story and dialogue are not as important as the spectacle.

Cameron has managed to turn a generic concept into something unique and special in movie history, and that is a massive achievement.

 

[I should be doing hw]

Cameron has managed to turn a generic concept into something unique and special in movie history, and that is a massive achievement.

This. It's what the guy does best really.

 

[Veidt]

wow the sketch is fucking retarded. The funnies thing Cohen has done was Borat. After that, the dude should have just stopped.

 

[tino]

given his drawn-out rant about the Na'Vi at comic-con, i wouldn't be so sure.

You saw him in real life? What does he look like? Does him look like a retarded comic book store guy?

 

[Ollie Pooch]

You saw him in real life? What does he look like? Does him look like a retarded comic book store guy?

HAHA
no, i wasn't there, i thought it was pretty well documented about the rant?

im sure someone here can enlighten you on the actual experience. it sounded horrific.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Doesn't mean that Cameron has to be a whiny little bitch about it.

The article in the OP has word of an unnamed source giving second hand news of a producer speculating about Cameron's reaction. It never actually happened, and no one even talked to Cameron about it. And Cameron walking out of the Oscars due to a (spectacularly stupid and unfunny, going from the description) skit mocking Avatar strikes me as unlikely, to put it mildly. The thread is basically an excuse for people to project their pre-existing opinions of Cameron without him actually having done anything to spark it.

 

[I should be doing hw]

HAHA
no, i wasn't there, i thought it was pretty well documented about the rant?

im sure someone here can enlighten you on the actual experience. it sounded horrific.

So you haven't even seen it? Pfft

 

[Ollie Pooch]

So you haven't even seen it? Pfft

:lol

i was defending him!
there's an image floating around somehwre with a transcript of it, just endless talking about the na'vi. so endearingly nerdy. but it dispels any idea that he wasn't completely engrossed in the world he created.

 

[fortified_concept]

The main defining factor of a movie is moving pictures. If all the above factors of a movie were excellent but the visual experience was poor (awful lightning, cinematography, editing etc), the film would unequivocally be rubbish no matter how great the script or original the story.

Avatar is not extraordinary because of its story, or its dialogue, but because it delivered a visual experience unlike any other before it. This film is the equivalent of the 'cinema of attractions' for the modern age, where story and dialogue are not as important as the spectacle.

Cameron has managed to turn a generic concept into something unique and special in movie history, and that is a massive achievement.

Hey, if you think the visual element is so important it's your opinion and I can't change it. Personally, I disagree since I consider The Man From Earth for example a much better movie for the story and the way it told it alone. Still though, following your pov, the movie should have been shorter and focused more on its strong points like visual elements and less on the love story or characters.

I also partly disagree with your "special and unique" comment. I don't see anything special and unique in this movie, at least anything more unique than what Jurassic Park did with CG. Cameron managed to make 3D feel more natural but 3D isn't a new concept he invented and the only way he changed movie history is the way he gave the corporations a way to charge us more for movies.

 

[muntersaur]

Hey, if you think the visual element is so important it's your opinion and I can't change it. Personally, I disagree since I consider The Man From Earth for example a much better movie for the story and the way it told it alone. Still though, following your pov, the movie should have been shorter and focused more on its strong points like visual elements and less on the love story or characters.

I also partly disagree with your "special and unique" comment. I don't see anything special and unique in this movie, at least anything more unique than what Jurassic Park did with CG. Cameron managed to make 3D feel more natural but 3D isn't a new concept he invented and the only way he changed movie history is the way he gave the corporations a way to charge us more for movies.

I believe the visual element to be most important (eg. a movie shot on film will always be more desirable than being shot on home video unless, of course, relevant to the story/ approach), but that is not the only criteria by which I judge a film. A perfect film for me will have both style and substance; however, if a film has a lot of substance than the need for style is not as important, and if the film does not have much substance, then it will need a lot of style.

Avatar on paper has little substance, but the style and the spectacle of the film, unlike anything I had seen before (the dragon ride, the fluorescent scenes, the original creature designs, the final battle etc) made up for its shortcomings in the substance department to make it a great film (though obviously not perfect).

Avatar is a film designed to create spectacle and to criticise it wholly on plot and characterisation is shortsighted. As an action film, plot and character are not as important as the way the film is told, and its setpieces. Obviously strong plot and characters are preferable, but if not truly awful, then strong style can overcome this weakness.

As for The Man From Earth, I have not seen the film, but I am sure that it does not try to be a spectacle in the same way Avatar does; it would therefore be stupid for me to criticise it wholly based on its lack of spectacle. To make up for this, I am sure that it has an engaging story and original and interesting plot, and therefore I will not miss the lack of spectacle.

 

[I should be doing hw]

I believe the visual element to be most important (eg. a movie shot on film will always be more desirable than being shot on home video unless, of course, relevant to the story/ approach), but that is not the only criteria by which I judge a film. A perfect film for me will have both style and substance; however, if a film has a lot of substance than the need for style is not as important, and if the film does not have much substance, then it will need a lot of style.

Avatar on paper has little substance, but the style and the spectacle of the film, unlike anything I had seen before (the dragon ride, the fluorescent scenes, the original creature designs, the final battle etc) made up for its shortcomings in the substance department to make it a great film (though obviously not perfect).

Avatar is a film designed to create spectacle and to criticise it wholly on plot and characterisation is shortsighted. As an action film, plot and character are not as important as the way the film is told, and its setpieces. Obviously strong plot and characters are preferable, but if not truly awful, then strong style can overcome this weakness.

As for The Man From Earth, I have not seen the film, but I am sure that it does not try to be a spectacle in the same way Avatar does; it would therefore be stupid for me to criticise it wholly based on its lack of spectacle. To make up for this, I am sure that it has an engaging story and original and interesting plot, and therefore I will not miss the lack of spectacle.

This guy gets it. Well, at least from my pov anyway.

 

[Hellion]

Wait, Did Cameron have a say in this?!

I think he's a good guy based on his rage view of Hollywood turning everything into 3D trend.

 

[Lau]

Considering what he has done, you cannot blame him.

His latest movie was mediocre

 

[TheGreatDave]

His latest movie was mediocre

But it made a lot of money and looked so pretty, how is that possible?

 

[WillyFive]

I hate Cohen, but GOOD GRIEF, that would have made great TV!

 

[Haunted]

oh shit, I don't know whose side to take here.


On the one hand, Cameron does not have a sense of humour and thinks too highly of himself.
On the other hand, the sketch outlined in the OP sounds pretty fucking shitty and unfunny, something it has in common with a lot of Cohen's work.


I guess I dislike them equally. :/


edit: oh wait, this was about to happen at the Oscars? Whew, dodged a bullet there - I don't give a shit about Hollywood's self-wankery anyway. ^_^

 

[Bit-Bit]

I believe the visual element to be most important (eg. a movie shot on film will always be more desirable than being shot on home video unless, of course, relevant to the story/ approach), but that is not the only criteria by which I judge a film. A perfect film for me will have both style and substance; however, if a film has a lot of substance than the need for style is not as important, and if the film does not have much substance, then it will need a lot of style.

Avatar on paper has little substance, but the style and the spectacle of the film, unlike anything I had seen before (the dragon ride, the fluorescent scenes, the original creature designs, the final battle etc) made up for its shortcomings in the substance department to make it a great film (though obviously not perfect).

Avatar is a film designed to create spectacle and to criticise it wholly on plot and characterisation is shortsighted. As an action film, plot and character are not as important as the way the film is told, and its setpieces. Obviously strong plot and characters are preferable, but if not truly awful, then strong style can overcome this weakness.

As for The Man From Earth, I have not seen the film, but I am sure that it does not try to be a spectacle in the same way Avatar does; it would therefore be stupid for me to criticise it wholly based on its lack of spectacle. To make up for this, I am sure that it has an engaging story and original and interesting plot, and therefore I will not miss the lack of spectacle.

A man after my own heart. Do you have a blog I can subscribe to?

 

[avatar299]

Cameron has managed to turn a generic concept into something unique and special in movie history, and that is a massive achievement.

Cameron has managed to convince people that character and story aren't important as long as they are "enchanted" or they are seeing a spectacle. He made his film seem like a once in a lifetime event, equivalent to Star Wars or the King Kong or whatever, so now everyone has seen the movie and wants so badly to believe they are a part of a moment, that they are willing to drop their standards like a rock tied around their neck. Completely forgetting or purposely ignoring that every great film they try to put dreck next to lives on not solely through visuals but by excelling in many areas instead of one.

Basically he bullshitted people with special effects, and people wanted to be bullshitted.

 

[I should be doing hw]

Cameron has managed to convince people that character and story aren't important as long as they are "enchanted" or they are seeing a spectacle. He made his film seem like a once in a lifetime event, equivalent to Star Wars or the King Kong or whatever, so now everyone has seen the movie and wants so badly to believe they are a part of a moment, that they are willing to drop their standards like a rock tied around their neck. Completely forgetting or purposely ignoring that every great film they try to put dreck next to lives on not solely through visuals but by excelling in many areas instead of one.

Basically he bullshitted people with special effects, and people wanted to be bullshitted.

Fuck off.

 

[-NeoTB1-]

I don't like Sacha or Cameron. So, while it sucks to not see Cameron wet his pants in humiliation, it is good to know that we won't be bored out of our minds watching Sacha try to be funny.

 

[Rktk]

I'd rather see a poor show from Cohen than probably whatever else is going to take place.

Fuck off.

Grow up.

 

[judhudson]

I think Cameron does have a sense of humor. After all he did do the Laser Cats skit for Saturday Night Live - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpNv6qto6So that made fun of Aliens, Terminator and Avatar.

 

[teddyboi]

Oh my. Touchy subject this is.

 

[ChackanKun]

Oh my. Touchy subject this is.

"Oh my.."

Don't like Sasha's kind of humor anyway. Some things are funny I admit, but the majority of it...meh.

 

[MarshMellow96]

comparing it to Star Wars

I'm sure if the internet was around back in those days, you'd hear the same thing. 'Fucking Han Solo is just a rip of John Wayne man'....

Get off your high horse guys.

 

[Shaka]

Cameron has managed to convince people that character and story aren't important as long as they are "enchanted" or they are seeing a spectacle. He made his film seem like a once in a lifetime event, equivalent to Star Wars or the King Kong or whatever, so now everyone has seen the movie and wants so badly to believe they are a part of a moment, that they are willing to drop their standards like a rock tied around their neck. Completely forgetting or purposely ignoring that every great film they try to put dreck next to lives on not solely through visuals but by excelling in many areas instead of one.

Basically he bullshitted people with special effects, and people wanted to be bullshitted.

I liked the movie and I kinda agree. :lol

 

[Bit-Bit]

Cameron has managed to convince people that character and story aren't important as long as they are "enchanted" or they are seeing a spectacle. He made his film seem like a once in a lifetime event, equivalent to Star Wars or the King Kong or whatever, so now everyone has seen the movie and wants so badly to believe they are a part of a moment, that they are willing to drop their standards like a rock tied around their neck. Completely forgetting or purposely ignoring that every great film they try to put dreck next to lives on not solely through visuals but by excelling in many areas instead of one.

Basically he bullshitted people with special effects, and people wanted to be bullshitted.

Look, I love movies. I can promise you, that I did not lie to myself about AVATAR being a good movie just so I can be apart of some "moment". If that was true, why didn't I and many others like me did it with other movies?

You think you got it all figured out, but really you don't know shit. It's not some grand conspiracy to be a part of some "moment". It truly is groundbreaking. The seamless CGI world really feels real. Combined with the 3D and it made for some spectacular moments that I have never witness before. You can't deny that the directing is just absolutely amazing. You and others think that just because it's some "action" flick puts it on some scale lower than stuff like Citizen Kane and Up In the Air. But you know what? It's really fuckin hard to direct action. In fact, Tarantino once said that if you can direct action then you can direct anything. Cameron is in my opinion, the master of directing action. His sense of scale, space, and pacing during his action scenes are unmatched. That's a lot of the reasons why AVATAR is so loved. It's a combination of a timeless story, mixed with characters people can understand, a sense of wonderment of exploring a foreign planet in detail, mixed with some of the best directed action ever put to film and it's your fault if you can't find reasons why people would love it.

 

[Masaki_]

Look, I love movies. I can promise you, that I did not lie to myself about AVATAR being a good movie just so I can be apart of some "moment". If that was true, why didn't I and many others like me did it with other movies?

You think you got it all figured out, but really you don't know shit. It's not some grand conspiracy to be a part of some "moment". It truly is groundbreaking. The seamless CGI world really feels real. Combined with the 3D and it made for some spectacular moments that I have never witness before. You can't deny that the directing is just absolutely amazing. You and others think that just because it's some "action" flick puts it on some scale lower than stuff like Citizen Kane and Up In the Air. But you know what? It's really fuckin hard to direct action. In fact, Tarantino once said that if you can direct action then you can direct anything. Cameron is in my opinion, the master of directing action. His sense of scale, space, and pacing during his action scenes are unmatched. That's a lot of the reasons why AVATAR is so loved. It's a combination of a timeless story, mixed with characters people can understand, a sense of wonderment of exploring a foreign planet in detail, mixed with some of the best directed action ever put to film and it's your fault if you can't find reasons why people would love it.

I think we can end this discussion now.

 

[bud]

that didn't even sound remotely funny. it'd just have been awkward to see, anyway.

 

[wRATH2x]

So why are people hating on Cameron again?

 

[WillyFive]

I'm sure if the internet was around back in those days, you'd hear the same thing. 'Fucking Han Solo is just a rip of John Wayne man'....

Get off your high horse guys.

It's true.

At that point in time, the time span between Buck Rogers and the Westerns was to Star Wars as Star Wars was to Avatar.

So why are people hating on Cameron again?

He made the highest grossing move ever made and became king of the movie world, took a decade off, and did it all over again in his next movie.