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[BajiBoxer]

This is fantasy. I work in retail, the level of interaction even the most basic of staff members have, could only be replaced with droids with capable A.I.

It's just a fantasists cop out solution.

Retailers will certainly try. Doesn't really matter if it's rational or not. I work at a very large store, and staffing has been cut to an extremely low level, with a number of departmental positions eliminated entirely. Also have had customer service robots in the works for awhile now. Eventually it will be a skelaton crew with robots rolling around trying to fill the gaps.

 

[e_i]

Will this be like what I see in anime where people order at a machine, get a ticket, bring it up to the counter and get their food?

 

[TumblingHippo]

I wonder what Americans will end up showing more hate for. Homeless people or the idea of people not having to work to survive.

 

[Miles X]

I would suggest you to really examine this myth. I can sit here and say it's bullshit, but I think it would be better as to why you think so lowly of people to think they'd be lazy and "leech." What if they did important work in their lives for no money if they had UBI? Are they leeches? What of a society that disempowers people, that laziness and "doing the least" is a response caused by other factors? Have you considered how means-testing incentivizes non-striving, and how UBI is one of the few policies to actually break the problem of being "forced into the bottom?"

It's like the welfare queen myth: what you assert is an archetype and you're not really paying attention to the depth nor all of the possible conditions that can give a rise to what you assert. Please delve deeper.

Furthermore, Guy Standing argues every country can do something with UBI today as a start, and he's probably the most informed person on the concept on this planet, for his fingers have been in every major pilot done of the last 30 years. People call him to supervise the scopes and implementations of the tests we're seeing in California, for example.

Some will do meaningful work, some will aspire to go back to education, some will do voluntary work, some will want to maintain some semblence of the life they had before, some will sit on their arses all day. Call me cynical, judgemental, blah blah blah, but the majority of low skilled workers are there for a reason. I've seen enough to know at least a large chunk wouldn't want to work. Especially with the fact a job they can do will become much more scarce.

 

[Foffy]

Some will do meaningful work, some will aspire to go back to education, some will do voluntary work, some will want to maintain some semblence of the life they had before, some will sit on their arses all day. Call me cynical, judgemental, blah blah blah, but the majority of low skilled workers are there for a reason. I've seen enough to know at least a large chunk wouldn't want to work. Especially with the fact a job they can do will become much more scarce.

Ah, there's the "they're at the bottom because they're undeserving" card.

Says it all, really.

 

[Foxy the Fox]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5e-zAljAgqs

Senpai will be sad.

 

[Miles X]

Ah, there's the "they're at the bottom because they're undeserving" card.

Says it all, really.

At GAF, forever putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that at all.

They're in low skilled jobs because they're low skilled/don't have qualifications ect ect.

Can't debate with people like you who form and force your own opinions on people to try and 'win' arguments, pathetic. FYI I spent many years in low skilled jobs.

 

[TumblingHippo]

Some will do meaningful work, some will aspire to go back to education, some will do voluntary work, some will want to maintain some semblence of the life they had before, some will sit on their arses all day. Call me cynical, judgemental, blah blah blah, but the majority of low skilled workers are there for a reason. I've seen enough to know at least a large chunk wouldn't want to work. Especially with the fact a job they can do will become much more scarce.

Working sucks. I don't blame anyone for choosing not to work if it meant just having enough money to live without anything fancy or needless in their lives. Let people live without having to work.

I like working because I can buy needless video games and go eat at nice places once in a while, but it'd be also nice to know that if I got fired I wouldn't have to worry about dying and stuff.

 

[Miles X]

Working sucks. I don't blame anyone for choosing not to work if it meant just having enough money to live without anything fancy or needless in their lives. Let people live without having to work.

I like working because I can buy needless video games and go eat at nice places once in a while, but it'd be also nice to know that if I got fired I wouldn't have to worry about dying and stuff.

Indeed, and who the heck can blame you. or most low skilled workers.

Nobody is going to lose their job in mcdonalds, get £800 basic income and say "oh, I think I'll fill some of my time and work in burger king!!'

Or do the delusions of GAF think they'll all become nurses and bankers? Get a grip.

 

[Foffy]

At GAF, forever putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that at all.

They're in low skilled jobs because they're low skilled/don't have qualifications ect ect.

Do you then believe they are down there by choice? What factors other than laziness would you possibly entertain as a factor?

I mean, education in terms of costs can be argued as a straight up net-negative, both in terms of the debt and its noose that strangles mass amounts of people, and also from the view that the change is labor is cognitive, so we are directly competing with self-learning systems in many tasks, especially in what counts as "services."

We should be more aware that people are systems, and that system goes beyond the organism and into society, which in this case, this society has gone to amazing lengths to make the most humane states of wellbeing and opportunity to be morphed into games of combat, privilege, and exclusion.

To even say people choose to be lazy is saying something incredibly loose and too convenient for the depths of the problems we're facing. What we're really talking about is disempowerment and disengagement, not "laziness."

 

[TumblingHippo]

Indeed, and who the heck can blame you. or most low skilled workers.

Nobody is going to lose their job in mcdonalds, get £800 basic income and say "oh, I think I'll fill some of my time and work in burger king!!'

Or do the delusions of GAF think they'll all become nurses and bankers? Get a grip.

lol I wouldn't wish anyone becoming a banker, but yes, maybe some will become nurses. Some will have time to find out they like programming, some will find some place they actually belong instead of sacrificing their time in their life to make some rich yuppie happy by serving them their food while they get paid peanuts.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

At GAF, forever putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that at all.

They're in low skilled jobs because they're low skilled/don't have qualifications ect ect.

Can't debate with people like you who form and force your own opinions on people to try and 'win' arguments, pathetic. FYI I spent many years in low skilled jobs.

So what was your reason for working in low skilled jobs for years?

And yet you still work in retail, so I assume you're in a management position?

I don't find that impressive to be honest.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Indeed, and who the heck can blame you. or most low skilled workers.

Nobody is going to lose their job in mcdonalds, get £800 basic income and say "oh, I think I'll fill some of my time and work in burger king!!'

Or do the delusions of GAF think they'll all become nurses and bankers? Get a grip.

Well the point is that they won't have to. If they are happy to live on whatever then they can do so with the blessing of the state. In the UK there is so much money wasted trying to force the unemployable (for whatever reason) into low paid work that is of marginal economic benefit. Simply put, if those jobs didn't exist and employers made more profit and therefore paid more tax and you didn't have to spend billions on strong-arming people into employment, then the whole thing may wash its own face. Most people would still want to work in any case because most people want more money.

That's obviously a gross simplification and personally, I am not sure if it would work but if it did work, it would make things so much better it has to be worth a shot at some point. It's not so far removed from the existing benefits system in the UK anyway. You''d only have to make a few changes to jobseekers and tax credits and BOOM there you go. The two things would need to go hand though i.e. you wouldn't want universal income to make some jobs unfillable.

 

[Dabanton]

I always use the kiosks means I have more time to decide what I want to eat and of course can make my own crazy burger combinations

 

[linkboy]

Phones. The kiosk is a temporary thing. See my post just before.

Sam's Club already has that with their Scan and go app. I get what I want, scan it with my phone, then they greeter at the door scans a Barcode on my phone, and I'm out the door.

The less I have to deal with a cash register, the better.

 

[Vuze]

Nice. I very rarely pick up food at McD but when I do I'm usually greeted by a sulky cashier who takes hours to get shit done and moves slower than a turtle.

Self checkout / kiosks are bliss. Only thing left (atleast over here) is widespread contactless / ApplePay.

 

[Alebrije]

Those Bad Hombres taking U.S. jobs again !!!!

 

[Steiner_Zi]

Will this be like what I see in anime where people order at a machine, get a ticket, bring it up to the counter and get their food?

It is already like this in central London McDonald's stores!

 

[Kill Your Masters]

The sheer expense of it for one, people that work in well paid skill set jobs are going to have to be taxed far higher and that basic income won't cover it, not to mention the basic income itself is supposed to be taxed if it's to come about.

IMO It promotes the idea to all low skill/unemployed to just get free money, and those that have worked for a career or are in important jobs are less better off.

Better idea imo would be to more heavily tax companys like mcdonalds that do this. They're saving money on this, they should be putting it back into the economy not their back pockets.

Your job/profession will get automated too.

Better get prepared for it sooner than later. Shareholders won't have a customer to sell a product to, and a hungry mob increasing in size when another field is automated will be harder to stop.

Rich, poor, middle class everyone gets fucked in a way unless we get away from the "everyone must work" mentality.

 

[Mysterious]

This is fully rolled out in Canada. They still have 1-2 cashiers for people who don't want to use the machines.

Here's how this will go: They lose the cashier, but machines are finicky and people are stupid so the lines will go out the door. Then they'll need someone to help people with the machines and nothing is solved. This exact scenario happened at my movie theatre and happens at self checkouts in my town.

I've never seen these machines go finicky.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Don't be sorry for the employees, I'm sure they'll find great success in the coal mines!

 

[Grinchy]

I'd love to use these at the drive-thru. Speaking through that awful speaker to someone who hates their life is the reason that orders get messed up.

You punch in exactly what you want on a screen, exactly the way you want it, and the kitchen staff can make it correctly almost every time.

 

[Shoeless]

This is fully rolled out in Canada. They still have 1-2 cashiers for people who don't want to use the machines.



I've never seen these machines go finicky.

Yeah, we've got one of these at the outlet in my neighborhood, and I have to admit, I like it a lot. The option to have your food sent directly to your table is also nice.

I first saw one of these kiosk operated systems when I was traveling with my wife to Paris a few years ago, and I thought, "This is FANTASTIC, there are even language options, so I can switch from French to English!" I was waiting for them to come to Canada and they work even better now with all the additional options like coupon scanning and such.

 

[Hispanic! At the Disco]

I always use the kiosks means I have more time to decide what I want to eat and of course can make my own crazy burger combinations

Or because you cant ask a person you'll be limited to whatever "crazy" combinations they allow.

 

[Stallion Dan]

So what happens if you want for example no gherkins?

 

[Theonik]

So what happens if you want for example no gherkins?

There's a menu for that.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Here's how this will go: They lose the cashier, but machines are finicky and people are stupid so the lines will go out the door. Then they'll need someone to help people with the machines and nothing is solved. This exact scenario happened at my movie theatre and happens at self checkouts in my town.

Self checkout supermarkets have like one person manage 8-10 checkouts though.

 

[Stallion Dan]

There's a menu for that.

Really? My local always ask it verbally to the cook and it is set aside especially, doesn't seem to be a till menu option.

 

[Shoeless]

Self checkout supermarkets have like one person manage 8-10 checkouts though.

At my particular McDonald's outlet, they've done just that. There's one staff person that helicopters around the area to handle questions from people unfamiliar with the kiosks, or to handle finicky kiosk operations like when the paper roll for printing out your receipt and queue number gets caught in the machine, and someone needs to quickly open up the panel to tear it out and hand it to you. Works fine.

 

[Van Bur3n]

This sounds cool to me.

 

[Charles Brandon]

Really? My local always ask it verbally to the cook and it is set aside especially, doesn't seem to be a till menu option.

I don't use it but there is a menu to customise your burger.

 

[OnionPowder]

I'm sure they'll give plenty of wage increases to the people still working there after all those people lose their jobs

 

[smurfx]

I don't think a McDonalds employee only works as a cashier.

they are also working on automating the cooking.

 

[outunderthestars]

Will this be like what I see in anime where people order at a machine, get a ticket, bring it up to the counter and get their food?

This might be the most GAF response I have read in a long time....

 

[Kickz]

I would rather talk to a real person

 

[Maxim726X]

they are also working on automating the cooking.

Soon, there will be one person in each store- Mainly to clean the fingerprints off of the automated kiosks.

 

[Shoeless]

they are also working on automating the cooking.

Sounds like a longer term plan. That will definitely involve more robotics, so I can't imagine we'll have a complete, automated cooking/packaging system ready and economically viable for at least another 10 years.

 

[Zakalwe]

Hmmm, I'm sure we already have these in the UK. You use a touch screen to order and make adjustments and then make a contactless payment with your phone or card. You then get a ticket and wait for your food, which (in some restaurants) is then delivered to your table.

And the poor serving staff look more flustered than they ever were serving one customer at a time.

Tonnes of people standing around in a throng, half not listening for their order, half being impatient. People calling out numbers 4-5 times before someone collects. Etc...

I'm sure it's more efficient somehow and perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems like a nightmare.

 

[John Rabbit]

This is why the world needs basic income. But the USA will watch it burn before looking ahead.

This isn't a problem unique to the US.

They can all get coal jobs though so no worries.

 

[Sectorseven]

Soon, there will be one person in each store- Mainly to clean the fingerprints off of the automated kiosks.

Even then, it's conceivable they might have a cleaning crew of sorts that would just drive around to all the local stores and clean them a couple times per day.

 

[Shoeless]

Even then, it's conceivable they might have a cleaning crew of sorts that would just drive around to all the local stores and clean them a couple times per day.

I think they'll still need either robotic cleaning staff at each outlet, or keep human staff around to clean up messes. This is McDonald's, after all, between little kids spilling their drinks, and teenagers starting food fights, it's going to be a problem if an outlet is only cleaned between 2-4 times per day. Once something is spilled on a table, or somebody throws up, someone needs to clean that ASAP, you can't just leave that sitting there until the designated cleaning crew shows up at the appointed time.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Sounds like a longer term plan. That will definitely involve more robotics, so I can't imagine we'll have a complete, automated cooking/packaging system ready and economically viable for at least another 10 years.

The problem here is your imagination. People tend to overestimate what can be accomplished in one year while drastically underestimating what can be accomplished in 10.

Think about the fact that the iPhone is 10 years old.

 

[Shoeless]

The problem here is your imagination. People tend to overestimate what can be accomplished in one year while drastically underestimating what can be accomplished in 10.

Think about the fact that the iPhone is 10 years old.

I admit, my weakness here comes from the economic side, and not having a full grasp of that part of the equation. I said 10 years because I have a difficult time imagining that the installation and roll out of something like to this to McDonald's franchises would actually be cost effective in a short period of time. They'd have to trial it extensively and make sure they had an infrastructure in place that could respond to breakdowns and such.

I don't doubt the technology is there, but, as with self-driving cars, there's more to this than just being technologically feasible. I think the economics and regulatory requirements will play a bigger role in slowing this down than whether or not the tech can actually do the job.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Been rolling out in the UK for a while. Couldn't see any way of customising the burger though. Is that definitely there?

Spoiler

Death to gherkins.

 

[Spyder_Monkey]

This is why the world needs basic income. But the USA will watch it burn before looking ahead.

The world can't accept that capitalism is starting to fail and it's going to lead to our doom in 100 years.

 

[LumpOfCole]

Been rolling out in the UK for a while. Couldn't see any way of customising the burger though. Is that definitely there?

Spoiler

Death to gherkins.

From the kiosk machines I've used, it's the vastly preferable way to customize orders. I've always felt like communicating a custom order to a cashier was just introducing another level of potential failure to get the custom order done correctly.

 

[Fried Food]

Removing humans from the drive through equation. I don't want to say anything to those people except "thanks"

 

[BlastProcessing]

I admit, my weakness here comes from the economic side, and not having a full grasp of that part of the equation. I said 10 years because I have a difficult time imagining that the installation and roll out of something like to this to McDonald's franchises would actually be cost effective in a short period of time. They'd have to trial it extensively and make sure they had an infrastructure in place that could respond to breakdowns and such.

I don't doubt the technology is there, but, as with self-driving cars, there's more to this than just being technologically feasible. I think the economics and regulatory requirements will play a bigger role in slowing this down than whether or not the tech can actually do the job.

Self driving cars are an exponentially harder problem. Here McDonalds has complete control over the kitchen environment. Also by moving away from human workers, they will actually be shedding regulator requirements. Without pesky OSHA rules, they will have many options to design a more efficient system.

It also doesn't have to be cost effective in the short term. Look at how positively Wall Street responded to this step. If McDonalds can show investors a clear path to the promised land, they will support the transitional costs.

 

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

I try not to go as often anymore, but I am loving the Kiosks as they are really well designed from a UI perspective and they ensure that the order gets submitted correctly. Now that is not to say the order will be perfect (my brother has had multiple meals missing a burger patty), but in terms of ordering it is amazing.

 

[RoninChaos]

I only ever see two maybe three cashiers at McDonald's. Will this be that big of a hit for each store?