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[mattiewheels]

Why does that make him an asshole? He got there first.

In fact, it can be argued that stepping to him with the "I'm a real gamer" pleas was assholish too.

just the way he handled it. i'm not blanketing everyone who resells as an asshole, but his greed was definitely showing. and sure, gamers don't deserve the system just because they're gamers.

 

[speculawyer]

Who cares about the irrelevant scalpers? They are just the canary in the coal mine.

This is a story about Sony . . . and it is a very very scary story for them!

I'm kinda bummed . . . I was hoping for a neck & neck race between all three consoles. I wanted something close to a 33%, 33%, and 33% split for this generation.

Time to short SNE?


BTW, Imagine the poor people who paid $3000 for a PS3 if it goes the way of the Dreamcast. Ah f*#k 'em . . . anyone that can pay $3000 for a PS3 is NOT 'poor'.

 

[mashoutposse]

If Sony only had one SKU, the $499 system available, the whole perception of price by the public wouldn't be as bad.

I've been saying that since forever. Drop the 60GB model, add HDMI (check), memory card slots, and Wifi to 20GB model (maybe move to 40GB HDD), continue to sell for $499.

Who cares about the irrelevant scalpers? They are just the canary in the coal mine.

This is a story about Sony . . . and it is a very very scary story for them!

I'm kinda bummed . . . I was hoping for a neck & neck race between all three consoles. I wanted something close to a 33%, 33%, and 33% split for this generation.

Time to short SNE?


BTW, Imagine the poor people who paid $3000 for a PS3 if it goes the way of the Dreamcast. Ah f*#k 'em . . . anyone that can pay $3000 for a PS3 is NOT 'poor'.

:lol You can't be serious with this PS3 doom-and-gloom BS.

Next Christmas will be VERY interesting.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

:lol OK, whatever.

I don't think there was a single 360 restock between launch and the week before Christmas last year.

They did restock, but it was VERY low and VERY scarce.

True Story:

I work for a major electronics distributor, and we had gaggles of 360's languishing in our warehouse a few scant days before Christmas.

MS's supply chain management was so atrocious that they couldn't allocate the units.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I've been saying that since forever. Drop the 60GB model, add HDMI (check), memory card slots, and Wifi to 20GB model (maybe move to 40GB HDD), continue to sell for $499.

This will not happen.

The 60 dollar sku has and always will be the premier "loss-leader" model.

The only reason Sony added HDMI at the last minute was because of the fear of losing Japan to the Wii due to the price disparity.

 

[Mana Knight]

I've been saying that since forever. Drop the 60GB model, add HDMI (check), memory card slots, and Wifi to 20GB model (maybe move to 40GB HDD), continue to sell for $499.

Well, I'd just leave WiFi out (that may drive cost up too much). A memory stick reader would be nice at least (to transfer data saves). IMO, just have that, and I feel PS3 would have a more positive perception. If WiFi was added (since it's $100 extra on 360), $500 would be an extremely good deal.

 

[mashoutposse]

This will not happen.

The 60 dollar sku has and always will be the premier "loss-leader" model.

The only reason Sony added HDMI at the last minute was because of the fear of losing Japan to the Wii.

It won't happen, but things probably would have been best if they had managed to do this prior to fully earning the "$600!" stigma.

 

[speculawyer]

Please be under 10. The image of a twenty-something otaku crying over a videogame system makes me want to stomp a weasel..

Why does a weasel get abused in this scenario. I'd laugh at the 20-something nerd.

PS3 demand is highly unlikely to be insatiable. They've been supply-limited until around now, but just like how the 360 has consistently failed to meet sales expectations on price point alone, PS3 is going to have a slow build up of users until the price drops or software compels people.

The xbox 360 was effectively supply-limited until April of the next year . . . the PS3 barely went a month of being supply-limited and it only had 200K at launch. I'm sorry, but

Spoiler

Sony is really in trouble if PS3s are stacking up at stores now

.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

It won't happen, but things probably would have been best if they had managed to do this prior to fully earning the "$600!" stigma.

True.

To be fair, Sony will probably start to bundle sooner in order to get people on board.

 

[mashoutposse]

The xbox 360 was effectively supply-limited until April of the next year . . . the PS3 barely went a month of being supply-limited and it only had 200K at launch. I'm sorry, but

Spoiler

Sony is really in trouble if PS3s are stacking up at stores now

.

And are you familiar with the 360's sales numbers prior to the Spring supply explosion? 360 was tracking WAY behind even XBOX 1 for a long time.

 

[Elios83]

An other thread going downhill
It's really easy to see how many PS3 Sony is selling in the US, just look at the units sold in Japan and consider that something between 30-40% of the production is going there while the rest is for NA.
PS3 seems on track to sell 500k units by the end of the year in Japan,that would mean sales between 750k and 1 million in NA.
The truth in early January

 

[binary]

A few friends of mine who camped out for PS3s ended up returning their PS3s this past week. Too many people out there just bought PS3s blindly and said I'll put it up on ebay, but had no idea how to do it or thought the Christmas season would bring big money. I'm glad I sold mine the day after launch. :lol

 

[BobFromPikeCreek]

On Monday, I went to Meijer and saw a 20GB PS3 for the first time. I was also able to get 15% off since my parents have a Meijer credit card (I'd just pay my parents back). I never thought I'd see a PS3, so I was initially not going to buy it. But after thinking about it for 10 minutes, I realized I can afford one, and I should definitely get it (because I definitely want one). As soon as I went back to get it, there was some guy standing right in front of the PS3, calling someone on his cell phone. He was asking how much a 20GB PS3 was going on ebay for. At the time, the highest one was going for $600, so he decided to buy it (PS3 comes to $530 after tax). I told the guy that I really wanted a PS3 and would not sell it. I also mentioned that it was highly doubtful he'll make a profit. All he said to me was "I'll sell it to you for $700". After what happened, I seriously cried, because I really wanted a PS3, but got beat my a scalper (which is why I loathe them even more now).

Now, since I'm seeing many people not even break even on 20GB PS3s on ebay, I don't feel so bad because that guy will probably get screwed. Even if he makes just over $500 on it, the ebay pees, Paypal fees, etc. will kick in, causing him to possibly lose money, or barely make any kind of profit. Unfortunately, I may not see a PS3 for $425 for a while (unless I get lucky again at Meijer).

Every time I go to Meijer and other stores, I look over the return area to see if anyone brought their PS3 back, since I heard about scalpers not making money. Unfortunately, this might be a bad sign for Sony (I am a big PlayStation fan afterall), but I'm very happy scalpers are getting screwed now. I had a feeling this was going to happen. With PS2 launch and Xbox 360 launch, not many people were thinking about putting their console on ebay initially. But after finding out people were willing to pay a lot, many people just knew the same would happen to PS3, so too many people put a PS3 on ebay, causing it to be saturated. I think the number of people willing to scalp is getting higher than the people willing to pay the high prices. Hopefully, scalping will decrease next generation.

I remember when people tried to scalpers tried to do the same for PSP (despite Sony shipping 1 million at launch) and failing.:lol
I personally don't understand why people want the 60GB model. People constantly complain about the PS3 price, yet they want the 60GB model. The 20GB model gives you everything you need (has HDMI now), but lacks WiFi, SD/MS/CF reader, larger HDD, and remote play for PSP. Oh course, the $600 is a good deal, but I personally feel that price is steep, especially for stuff I don't plan to use, which is why I'd get the 20GB model for $500.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

An other thread going downhill
It's really easy to see how many PS3 Sony is selling in the US, just look at the units sold in Japan and consider that something between 30-40% of the production is going there while the rest is for NA.
PS3 seems on track to sell 500k units by the end of the year in Japan,that would mean sales between 750k and 1 million in NA.
The truth in early January

500k?

They're at just over 300000 with 2 reporting weeks left. 450000 is far more likely.

 

[speculawyer]

:lol You can't be serious with this PS3 doom-and-gloom BS.

It is by no means dead. But is certainly NOT going to be the massive success that the PS2 was. The xbox 360 sold like 400K in its first month and then was supply limited until April of the next year. The PS3 sold 200K in its first month and MAY no longer be supply limited. If it really is no longer supply limited then Sony pull off a manufacturing miracle or their product is in trouble.

Yeah, yeah, price cuts will help it . . . but the xbox 360 is cheaper and can more easily absorb price cuts (no Blu-Ray, no Cell chip, cheaper power supply, etc.). So for every PS3 price cut, the xbox 360 price will also likely drop.

Disclosure: I own a Wii, a PS3, and an xbox 360 (and lots of older consoles) . . . I'm console agnostic. I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm just trying to objectively figure out the situation since I like to invest in videogame companies and knowing the platform mix is important for investment decisions. All comments are appreciated except brain-dead blind faith console zealotry.

 

[Y2Kev]

Doomed!

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

PS3 is far from doomed, but I have to say i'm surprised that it wasn't perpetually sold-out until at least March of next year.

Ps2 and Wii are cutting into it like crazy.

 

[Elios83]

500k?

They're at just over 300000 with 2 reporting weeks left. 450000 is far more likely.

Shipments are increasing week over week. From 70k to 100k it's not an improbable jump in the next two weeks but we'll see.

 

[speculawyer]

And are you familiar with the 360's sales numbers prior to the Spring supply explosion? 360 was tracking WAY behind even XBOX 1 for a long time.

WTF? If they are supply-limited, the sales numbers are meaningless other than an indication of how many units their factory could produce.

But I do agree that the xbox 360 is not setting the world on fire . . . heck, the PS2 is STILL beating it in sales! What I am interested in is the relative ratio of xbox 360 and PS3 sales.

 

[speculawyer]

The 60 dollar sku has and always will be the premier "loss-leader" model.

Huh? Did you mean 60GB?

The 60gb model probably loses less money than the 20GB model.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

IMO the 360 isn't the greatest barometer for PS3 success.

The 360 is selling to its fanbase right now, and not much more. If the PS3 sells to the same demographic (which would be surprising) then Sony is in some serious trouble.

 

[mashoutposse]

It is by no means dead. But is certainly NOT going to be the massive success that the PS2 was. The xbox 360 sold like 400K in its first month and then was supply limited until April of the next year. The PS3 sold 200K in its first month and MAY no longer be supply limited. If it really is no longer supply limited then Sony pull off a manufacturing miracle or their product is in trouble.

Yeah, yeah, price cuts will help it . . . but the xbox 360 is cheaper and can more easily absorb price cuts (no Blu-Ray, no Cell chip, cheaper power supply, etc.). So for every PS3 price cut, the xbox 360 price will also likely drop.

Disclosure: I own a Wii, a PS3, and an xbox 360 (and lots of older consoles) . . . I'm console agnostic. I don't mean to insult anyone. I'm just trying to objectively figure out the situation since I like to invest in videogame companies and knowing the platform mix is important for investment decisions. All comments are appreciated except brain-dead blind faith console zealotry.

We'll have to wait for NPD's numbers before we can make a determination. IMO, a system "in trouble" couldn't have hit the peaks in value PS3 hit without monstrous demand for it. Pre-NPD, a more realistic assessment of the situation is that demand has remained the same while supply has increased. I'd look for PS3 to have sold ~200k more than 360 did last year during the same time period. If not, then I'd agree that they have a (pricing) problem.

WTF? If they are supply-limited, the sales numbers are meaningless other than an indication of how many units their factory could produce.

Low sales numbers = low supply = less "sightings" on store shelves = higher prices on the secondary markets. So, I don't see how 360's "performance" last Fall can be compared to the PS3's this year, except as you described (production capability). I'm wondering how you could come to this conclusion based on a comparison with the 360: "I'm sorry, but Sony is really in trouble if PS3s are stacking up at stores now"

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Huh? Did you mean 60GB?

The 60gb model probably loses less money than the 20GB model.

600 dollar sku.

 

[Y2Kev]

Would you rather them be supply limited and look wonderful (omg sold out for YEARS) or would you rather them be in ample supply and selling briskly but not selling out?

If you want PS3 to be doomed, wish for the supply not to meet demand until April. That'll be GREAT for software numbers.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

We'll have to wait for NPD's numbers before we can make a determination. IMO, a system "in trouble" couldn't have hit the peaks in value PS3 hit without monstrous demand for it. Pre-NPD, a more realistic assessment of the situation is that demand has remained the same while supply has increased. I'd look for PS3 to have sold ~200k more than 360 did last year during the same time period. If not, then I'd agree that they have a (pricing) problem.

That doesn't hold water, because the 360 would have sold more during the same period if the supply was there. In fact, the PS3 NOT selling out is what has people concerned, we haven't hit Christmas yet and the system is moderately available? That's when you know price is deterring people.

The true test will be 6 months down the line when all three systems have broken free of the launch hype a la the DS and PSP, but what we're seeing now is truly a scary thing for Sony.

 

[davepoobond]

its shortsighted to say sony is doomed either way when PS3s are on store shelves and then turn around and say they're also doomed when there aren't any on store shelves

since when do we care about what is on the shelves? we should just wait for the ****ing numbers, like always.

 

[mashoutposse]

That doesn't hold water, because the 360 would have sold more during the same period if the supply was there. In fact, the PS3 NOT selling out is what has people concerned, we haven't hit Christmas yet and the system is moderately available? That's when you know price is deterring people.

If they're "not selling out" (is this the reality in most locales?), then it could be due to increased supply as opposed to decreased demand, as I stated. We will know for sure when NPD data is available. If sales exceed 360's last year performance by ~200k+, I'd say that Sony has nothing to worry about.

 

[Haunted]

too early for

...but very interesting developments and I simply can't wait for NPD/MC sales in December/January and the following months. This sales-gen is already fun! :lol

 

[Lindsay]

Good thread. Scalpers get owned and I get convinced that I don't need the 60gb PS3.

 

[Dilbert]

That doesn't hold water, because the 360 would have sold more during the same period if the supply was there. In fact, the PS3 NOT selling out is what has people concerned, we haven't hit Christmas yet and the system is moderately available? That's when you know price is deterring people.

To be fair, it's hard to judge anything at this point. It's entirely possible that people stopped looking for the PS3 since the lines and incredibly small supply were widely reported on the news.

I wouldn't be surprised at ALL if price was a huge factor, though. Despite the reported numbers, the economy isn't great in America, and expensive extras will become less and less popular if this continues.

 

[kazuo]

I find this whole thread amusing cause it seems that you guys lack reading comprehension, or common sense, or both.

Only guys who were buying the PS3 recently (like, the last couple of weeks) missed out cause the wheels fell off the wagon after the first couple of weeks. That is to say, after the first couple weeks, there was no money to be made trying to re-sell PS3 consoles.

Did they lose money? No, because they can just return it to the store

The people who paid other people money to wait in line got one at launch and likely made their $2000 off the sale. Those who got them during the last couple weeks just returned them to the store.

How are they getting "screwed?" How is this a "victory" over "scalpers?"

More importantly, why is this even a topic worthy of discussion, and, furthermore, why do we give a shit?

People were crying their eyes out a month ago about not being able to get a PS3 because of the EVIL SCALPERS OMG, and now they're available everywhere, thre's still no games worth having on the thing, and people would rather cry about scalpers.

??

 

[DarienA]

I find this whole thread amusing cause it seems that you guys lack reading comprehension, or common sense, or both.

Only guys who were buying the PS3 recently (like, the last couple of weeks) missed out cause the wheels fell off the wagon after the first couple of weeks. That is to say, after the first couple weeks, there was no money to be made trying to re-sell PS3 consoles.

Did they lose money? No, because they can just return it to the store

The people who paid other people money to wait in line got one at launch and likely made their $2000 off the sale. Those who got them during the last couple weeks just returned them to the store.

How are they getting "screwed?" How is this a "victory" over "scalpers?"

More importantly, why is this even a topic worthy of discussion, and, furthermore, why do we give a shit?

People were crying their eyes out a month ago about not being able to get a PS3 because of the EVIL SCALPERS OMG, and now they're available everywhere, thre's still no games worth having on the thing, and people would rather cry about scalpers.

??

Nice post.. except that they aren't available everywhere, as my post earlier in this thread should have reminded you.

 

[Mana Knight]

thre's still no games worth having on the thing,

I think it has a few games worth owning.

 

[MobiusPigeon]

PS3 is far from doomed, but I have to say i'm surprised that it wasn't perpetually sold-out until at least March of next year.

Ps2 and Wii are cutting into it like crazy.

i think ur missing 360 cutting into sales in that little equation. :rolleyes

 

[DreamMachine]

Nice post.. except that they aren't available everywhere, as my post earlier in this thread should have reminded you.

although.. yet you were still able to pick one up a few weeks before christmas..

which is insane.

in retrospect compared to launches like ps2 and to a lesser extent 360

 

[Ash Sparrow]

http://Scalpers.justgotowned.com/:lol

 

[bud]

Who cares about the irrelevant scalpers? They are just the canary in the coal mine.

This is a story about Sony . . . and it is a very very scary story for them!

I'm kinda bummed . . . I was hoping for a neck & neck race between all three consoles. I wanted something close to a 33%, 33%, and 33% split for this generation.

SONY IS SHIPPING ALOT OF PS3 SYSTEMS WHICH MEANS THAT SONY IZ D00M3D

 

[Slurpy]

:lol :lol

This is true.

I just returned mine yesterday. Yes, I admit I bought it to sell it, but it was purely a spontaneous decision as I was in the right place at the right time- went in to get cables, came out with a PS3. After seeing the ebay prices and even local selling prices, I decided to just say screw it to the hassle and return the thing.

EVen the guy at customer service was like 'Couldnt sell it on ebay, eh' admitting he ended up doing the same thing.

 

[underfooter]

Sony would have been better off shipping even less PS3s, then atleast the general public would think it was a hot item. This is sort of sad.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

So are people actually seeing PS3s in stores for more than a short while at open after a restock? Because I'm not.

Doom and Gloomers FTL.

 

[bud]

Sony should stop shipping ps3's, its better that way rite

 

[Corwood Rep]

On Monday, I went to Meijer and saw a 20GB PS3 for the first time. I was also able to get 15% off since my parents have a Meijer credit card (I'd just pay my parents back). I never thought I'd see a PS3, so I was initially not going to buy it. But after thinking about it for 10 minutes, I realized I can afford one, and I should definitely get it (because I definitely want one). As soon as I went back to get it, there was some guy standing right in front of the PS3, calling someone on his cell phone. He was asking how much a 20GB PS3 was going on ebay for. At the time, the highest one was going for $600, so he decided to buy it (PS3 comes to $530 after tax). I told the guy that I really wanted a PS3 and would not sell it. I also mentioned that it was highly doubtful he'll make a profit. All he said to me was "I'll sell it to you for $700". After what happened, I seriously cried, because I really wanted a PS3, but got beat my a scalper (which is why I loathe them even more now).

Now, since I'm seeing many people not even break even on 20GB PS3s on ebay, I don't feel so bad because that guy will probably get screwed. Even if he makes just over $500 on it, the ebay pees, Paypal fees, etc. will kick in, causing him to possibly lose money, or barely make any kind of profit. Unfortunately, I may not see a PS3 for $425 for a while (unless I get lucky again at Meijer).

Every time I go to Meijer and other stores, I look over the return area to see if anyone brought their PS3 back, since I heard about scalpers not making money. Unfortunately, this might be a bad sign for Sony (I am a big PlayStation fan afterall), but I'm very happy scalpers are getting screwed now. I had a feeling this was going to happen. With PS2 launch and Xbox 360 launch, not many people were thinking about putting their console on ebay initially. But after finding out people were willing to pay a lot, many people just knew the same would happen to PS3, so too many people put a PS3 on ebay, causing it to be saturated. I think the number of people willing to scalp is getting higher than the people willing to pay the high prices. Hopefully, scalping will decrease next generation.

I remember when people tried to scalpers tried to do the same for PSP (despite Sony shipping 1 million at launch) and failing.:lol
I personally don't understand why people want the 60GB model. People constantly complain about the PS3 price, yet they want the 60GB model. The 20GB model gives you everything you need (has HDMI now), but lacks WiFi, SD/MS/CF reader, larger HDD, and remote play for PSP. Oh course, the $600 is a good deal, but I personally feel that price is steep, especially for stuff I don't plan to use, which is why I'd get the 20GB model for $500.

Probably already said, but, like, chill out. You could have waited 3 weeks and got the superior one at any major retailer.

Costco had 5 60giggers yesterday in my town, for example. It's not a big deal.

 

[_PsiFire_]

Heh.. That news article is from my local newspaper in Hamilton, ON, Canada..

Yeah - I could go to Zellers right now and get myself a PS3.. Wii on the other hand, sold out.. Wal-Mart says they sold their last Wii yesterday - well they must have gotten that shipment in and sold them yesterday because a friend called the place on Thursday and they said they didn't have any (I live 5 minutes from said Wal-Mart).

 

[Mana Knight]

Probably already said, but, like, chill out. You could have waited 3 weeks and got the superior one at any major retailer.

Costco had 5 60giggers yesterday in my town, for example. It's not a big deal.

I still want a 20GB more (one reason has to do with me disliking the silver trim)

To be fair, that happened before I heard the news about PS3 consoles showing up everywhere. On Monday, I still felt that a PS3 wouldn't be seen as often. My main concern has to do with the possibility of not coming across that deal again (15-20% off general merchandise at Meijer. A game console can be bought then) because if it happens next time, they may or may not have a PS3 20GB in-stock, and if they do, the sales are normally on a Monday, so I won't be at home to buy it (I go away to college most of the year). It may seem crazy, but saving $75 is huge to me (buy a PS3 and a game for less than $500). Oh course, I could save that by waiting for a price drop, but VF5 (I know it will come to 360, but I rather use the PS3 d-pad), MotorStorm, and other releases around Feb./Mar. are really going to drive me insane for not owning one.

 

[Corwood Rep]

The harddrive's not upgradable, right?

If that's correct, then there's no way I would settle for 1/3 the storage space because I disliked the trim.

 

[Deku]

What lessons is learned? That the market is unpredictable? Ebay Wiis are still going for $600 plus so someone is making a killing, just not on PS3s.

 

[jett]

The harddrive's not upgradable, right?

If that's correct, then there's no way I would settle for 1/3 the storage space because I disliked the trim.

Of course it's upgradeable.

 

[Corwood Rep]

Oh, then whatever. My mistake.

 

[Mana Knight]

The harddrive's not upgradable, right?

If that's correct, then there's no way I would settle for 1/3 the storage space because I disliked the trim.

The harddrive is upgradeable. IGN discussed it and there were a few threads (which I couldn't find) discussing it.

 

[Danj]

The harddrive's not upgradable, right?

Possibly you're thinking of the 360? There have been at least eleventy billion threads and articles and pictures showing how the hard drive can be upgraded to at least 160GB (the biggest available 2.5" SATA size at the moment) and even beyond if you're prepared to hack around with your console and leave a 3.5" drive sticking out the side.