Bobby Roberts
Banned
innovative isn't a synonym for good.
It's a good movie
It's not an innovative one.
(this is kinda like that "iconic" thread from a couple days ago, where the words "iconic" and "recent" got beat up pretty bad)
'Scream' is the most innovative horror movie of all-time
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innovative isn't a synonym for good.
It's a good movie
It's not an innovative one.
(this is kinda like that "iconic" thread from a couple days ago, where the words "iconic" and "recent" got beat up pretty bad)
SillyEskimo
Member
Them! gets my vote. It's a well made movie for its time that introduced/redefined so many common tropes.
It was a great way to catapult the franchise into today's world and is my second favourite, the biggest issue I had was with the ending, which I feel was too sloppy.
Barrymore should have died imo
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The idea wasn't innovative, but the EXECUTION was. The way Carpenter/Cundey shot Halloween was new. They essentially defined a lot of the way slasher movies were paced/framed going forward. The innovation in Halloween wasn't the idea - idea was kinda basic. The innovation was in the execution. "This is how you maximize the dread, this is how you release the tension," & so on.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
That dudes name is Skeet Ulrich.
Skeet.
Skeet.
As said above, it is like Last Action Hero for horror movies. It was quite in line with the "deconstruction" mood of the 90s (like the Hard Way for cop movies, or others).
This is a smart and clever script, but innovative, no. of course, it needed all the horror movies to be filmed before to exist. So, that kind of innovation would have been impossible before.
This is a smart and clever script, but innovative, no. of course, it needed all the horror movies to be filmed before to exist. So, that kind of innovation would have been impossible before.
Isn't innovation taking something that already exists and making it fresh/unique? I mean, obviously I know innovation more implies something brand new, but I think both definitions are fair especially considering many things have been created already.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Scream is supposed to be a parody of the slasher horror genre but everyone misunderstood it.
While the actual horror content IS scary and thrilling there's also a lot of comedy in there actually, because the movies actually really lean on the 4th wall, almost (but not quite) breaking it.
It's amazing that so few people ever notice that.
That said, Scream really is a great piece of entertainment. I watch all four movies at least once a year. And it's a shame that Scream 4 bombed so hard at the box office, because it's actually a true return to form, yet it's failure killed the franchise as a movie series.
The Netflix series is pretty good though, at least the first season (haven't watched the 2nd yet). It really pushes the envelope about how hard you can lean on the 4th wall without breaking it and it's horror scenes are almost on par with the movies. It's a good adaptation in my book.
While the actual horror content IS scary and thrilling there's also a lot of comedy in there actually, because the movies actually really lean on the 4th wall, almost (but not quite) breaking it.
It's amazing that so few people ever notice that.
That said, Scream really is a great piece of entertainment. I watch all four movies at least once a year. And it's a shame that Scream 4 bombed so hard at the box office, because it's actually a true return to form, yet it's failure killed the franchise as a movie series.
The Netflix series is pretty good though, at least the first season (haven't watched the 2nd yet). It really pushes the envelope about how hard you can lean on the 4th wall without breaking it and it's horror scenes are almost on par with the movies. It's a good adaptation in my book.
People keep arguing against the word but noone actually argues against the reasons.
How was Scream not innovative without cementing the idea of day time kills? How was it not innovative by breaking the 1 killer rule?
Bobby Roberts was the only one in this thread to imply other movies did this before but he never gave examples and I doubt any of these movies were so good you could clearly draw a line of influence to future movies.
I don't know if Scream is the most innovative but considering how the horror genre expanded into new territory after The Blair Witch Project I would argue Blair Witches' innovations had far more wide ranging influence on how horror movies were made than Scream.
How was Scream not innovative without cementing the idea of day time kills? How was it not innovative by breaking the 1 killer rule?
Bobby Roberts was the only one in this thread to imply other movies did this before but he never gave examples and I doubt any of these movies were so good you could clearly draw a line of influence to future movies.
I don't know if Scream is the most innovative but considering how the horror genre expanded into new territory after The Blair Witch Project I would argue Blair Witches' innovations had far more wide ranging influence on how horror movies were made than Scream.
DizzyCaffeine
Member
Scream is the perfect marriage of director and screenwriter. Honestly, Craven gets a little too much credit and Williamson doesn't get enough.
Maximus.
Member
Nah this forum doesn't work that way. If you think like that, we would have to censor or spoiler literally everything. Scream is a classic, but it is old now. A new generation can easily make the decision to read the thread title and realize that maybe they shouldn't read it if they don't want spoilers.
Scream was innovative and a breathe of fresh air. Just watched scre4m the other day and though it felt a tad cheesy, it still retained the charm of the original.
What makes Scream notable is how astoundingly good its lore is.
bigmit3737
Member
I loved Candyman. I wonder is it still holds up .
How can a film commenting on well-established horror tropes be more innovative than the films that actually established those tropes? Outside of the whole metahorror thing there really isn't anything new in Scream.
I would definitely say films like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu, Psycho, Black Sunday, Night of the Living Dead, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Jaws, Halloween and Cannibal Holocaust are more innovative and more important to the development of the genre.
I would definitely say films like The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Nosferatu, Psycho, Black Sunday, Night of the Living Dead, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Jaws, Halloween and Cannibal Holocaust are more innovative and more important to the development of the genre.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
capitalCORN
Member
I think we're all forgetting Orson Welles's War of the Worlds?
Edit: Well, War of the Worlds isn't a movie. But my vote go to Hellraiser.
Edit: Well, War of the Worlds isn't a movie. But my vote go to Hellraiser.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I don't follow
The innovation comes from breaking all those tropes and showing a horror movie can be made in ways beyond those tropes. That's who Scream influenced horror movie design after it came out. But I still argue there are more innovative movies than it like Blair Witch but it's easy to see why it could be regarded among the most innovative.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
disappeared
Banned
I really loved the series. Still haven't seen the 4th one though, or the tv series.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre breaks both of those rules as one example.
Psycho (and much of Hitchcock's filmography) was innovative in general, not just within the confines of horror. It broke a bunch of taboo standards at the time (this was 1960, mind you), and it threw out the narrative rulebook that pretty much all films adhered to. I think it's safe to say it was the opening shot in a decade of innovative filmmaking that completely transformed the film industry.
BetterThanNothing
Member
Fancy Clown
Member
A radio broadcast isn't a movie. It also used a lot of techniques that other startling fake news broadcasts were doing at the time.
Hell, it has more than twice the number of daytime kills! Franklin is the only one that gets killed at night.
disappeared
Banned
Sad!
Candyman is an all time classic. Better the the so so Barker story it was based on.
echoshifting
Banned
It's kind of an awkward example though, since that movie pre-dates the whole concept of a slasher "rule book," right? I have to think everything was still pretty loose in 1974, years before Halloween.
TCM usually gets classified as a proto-slasher, but largely because of the presence of a masked killer. It really doesn't have much of a playbook that it's running with otherwise, which is a pretty big reason why it has managed to have stayed so fresh for over 40 years.
seeing where horror movies went after blair witch project was pretty innovative
I love scream and I love what it did but I don't really think it's all that innovative. it does some clever things with an established formula but I don't think that's enough to call it innovative.
I love scream and I love what it did but I don't really think it's all that innovative. it does some clever things with an established formula but I don't think that's enough to call it innovative.
Cipher Peon
Banned
Scream is my favorite horror movie of all time.
Love everything about it and it's such a love letter to everything I hold dear to my heart.
Love everything about it and it's such a love letter to everything I hold dear to my heart.
echoshifting
Banned
Right, that's sort of my point if we go back to the post you quoted; it wasn't breaking any slasher rules because it wasn't playing by slasher rules in the first place.
That whole idea is something that grew out of the schlocky slashers of the 80s/early 90s (and was arguably widely disseminated in part by Scream), so you can't really point to TCM as a movie that defied slasher conventions. It is definitely a more innovative movie than Scream though (and just a better film in general).
Even the direct self-awareness of it, as in "Let's literally talk about horror movies in our horror movie" and the use of a Randy-esque film buff was done earlier(There's Nothing Out There).
it may not be that innovative but scream is absolutely a classic
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I love all the scream moves I don't give a EF. But yeah part 1 was legitimately amazing.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think you're confusing popularity with classicism. I don't think it did anything for the genre at all.
I know what innovative means, thanks. I disagree that it's the most innovative horror film, but Scream was innovative in terms of it's self-reflexivity, meta-textuality and denouement.
Edit: New Nightmare tried a similar sort of thing but was far less successful and Cabin in the Woods tried it since but wasn't anywhere near as clever. The audience going to see Scream thought slasher movies were dumb, and Scream uses that to misdirect the audience with several
thrilling set pieces and delivers an intelligently worked out and surprisingly grounded conclusion. It's telling that no film has successfully aped it, not even it's sequels though that is partly to do with the Weinstein's toning down Williamson's ideas - the main cast are unfortunately 'safe' in the sequels so they sort of turn into the movies they were satiring.
nah, it's a classic. I don't see a case to be made otherwise. also I don't agree that it didn't do anything for the genre. I remember Scream's success when it released causing a ripple effect across the industry and put horror movies back in the spotlight. the horror aspects are great, the humor is great, the characters are great, it has great sequences (the opening is one of the best opening scenes of any horror movie), plus all the genre stuff that it does with the self referential nature of the movie. ghostface is also one of the most iconic costumes of all time. certified classic.
It created a sub genre that survived mainly On Kevin Williamson production.
http://shitmoviefest.blogspot.fr/2012/12/the-scream-clones-poster-round-up.html
I do not think this sub genre is very active any more, it was just a marketing wave. When the clones failed to ignite the charts, producers moved on.
they weren't clones though, they were just teen slasher films
somecrazymember
Banned
Broad daylight scary moments? The Shining
Most of them were done in the way he mentioned, though. Even the Halloween film of that era had more in common with Scream than it did the series it was a part of. Companies saw Scream and wanted a piece of the same pie.
damien1928
Banned
I support any pro-scream threads.
I was born in 87' scream came out like 96/97? It was one of my first introductions to horror, I loved it, one of my favourite films
It's humour, it's writing and a younger me never seen that ending coming at all.
So to me, yeah it was revolutionary.
I was born in 87' scream came out like 96/97? It was one of my first introductions to horror, I loved it, one of my favourite films
It's humour, it's writing and a younger me never seen that ending coming at all.
So to me, yeah it was revolutionary.
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