Seems like most third-party developers will not support Switch 2

rodrigolfp said:
But the Deck doesn't need a dedicated version/port.
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I agree, but I was responding to the claim that the Switch 2 is somehow too weak to get current gen ports, which is clearly false.

Represent. said:
2. The hardware is too weak for satisfactory ports. They'd have to downgrade heavily, and it's too much work.

They arent willing to put the work in, just to sell to an audnece that doesnt even know their game exists.

It's why you see Horizon LEGO on Switch, but not Forbidden West.... Kids.

Nothing fanboyish about this. it is what it is.
francis.png
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Forbidden West can run on the Steam Deck at low settings with XeSS. So a Switch 2 port should be no problem. It's a crossgen game after all.
 
FireFly said:
I agree, but I was responding to the claim that the Switch 2 is somehow too weak to get current gen ports, which is clearly false.
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It's not really false. It needs some settings lower than the lowest preset on the Deck version, like in CP 2077, Hogwarts Legacy...
 
Represent. said:
Nah im not wrong. Thats why the 3rd party support on Switch 2 remains garbage.
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Devs need to participate to a lottery to get devkits, that's why support is very limited for now. You have Switch 1 games and not Switch 2 games (like the recent Hexen + Herectic), it has nothing to do with hardware limitations. Nintendo themselves tell devs to make a Switch 1 version instead if they don't have Switch 2 devkits.
 
rodrigolfp said:
It's not really false. It needs some settings lower than the lowest preset on the Deck version, like in CP 2077, Hogwarts Legacy...
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Hogwarts is based on the last gen version, runs at a higher output resolution, and has less frame rate drops. Cyberpunk has lower shadow resolution and some slight geometry tweaks. (I would guess these changes were done to save memory bandwidth/CPU time). However the end result is visually comparable. Your claim would need to be that it's just too much work for developers to include custom settings, when that's what's expected of any port.
 
Represent. said:
Im not saying adults can't/don't/shouldn't play Nintendo games.

I'm saying that regardless of WHO plays them, their designs are objectively designed to attract children.

Super colourful/high contrast, round shapes, minimal realism, simplistic character designs, clear non-cluttered UI, playful sound design, low-danger enemies (goofy, smiling enemies in many games),

Nintendo almost never uses muted palettes for their flagship titles. Always lots of yellow, red, blue, green.

Their entire design language is catered to kids. Theres no way around this.

Adults can still enjoy them. But they are catered to children first. Miyamoto himself would admit this

Just like COD. Catered to adults. But kids still play and enjoy in large numbers.
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It doesn't have to be either/or. The art style for BOTW and Ring Fit Adventure are just as adult friendly as they are kid friendly.

Or to give another example, my partner has recently been playing Pikmin and Mario Kart and for her the cute characters are part of those games' appeal.
 
Baemono said:
Bad example, the Steam Deck plays the PC version (and the framerate is very choppy), which isn't taylor made for the steam deck, unlike the Switch 2 version.
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No game is, that is the point. Even without proper optimizations for it, it still has some higher settings.

Frame rate on Switch 2 is also very choppy even with optimizations and the downgrades.

FireFly said:
Hogwarts is based on the last gen version, runs at a higher output resolution, and has less frame rate drops. Cyberpunk has lower shadow resolution and some slight geometry tweaks. (I would guess these changes were done to save memory bandwidth/CPU time). However the end result is visually comparable. Your claim would need to be that it's just too much work for developers to include custom settings, when that's what's expected of any port.
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Based on last gen and even like that it struggles to run, so significantly weak for PS5 gen games without downgrades. 🤷‍♂️
 
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rodrigolfp said:
Kid friendly, yes. Kid first, no. It's tiring people still not understanding that games for everyone =/= games for kids
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Generational blending blurs the lines, but it's pretty clear that Nintendo target much younger audiences. They're not putting out games like Gears of War and The Last of Us.

The fact that adults increasingly engage with content aimed at much younger demographics is an odd trend for sure and the symptom of a widespread infantalisation of western society, but it doesn't change the reality.

I have friends nearing forty who read Young Adult Fiction almost exclusively - it's not for them but they're fast becoming one of the largest audiences for the genre.
 
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Now that we're a couple of months since launch, the current situation is that third party support is slightly better than on Switch but still a long way from it's potential.

Nintendo has to focus on improving that.
BbMajor7th said:
Generational blending blurs the lines, but it's pretty clear that Nintendo target much younger audiences. They're not putting out games like Gears of War and The Last of Us.

The fact that adults increasingly engage with content aimed at much younger demographics is an odd trend for sure and the symptom of a widespread infantalisation of western society, but it doesn't change the reality.

I have friends nearing forty who read Young Adult Fiction almost exclusively - it's not for them but they're fast becoming one of the largest audiences for the genre.
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The average age is probably younger, but a game doesn't need anything M rated to appeal to adults. People looking to play something like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing or the The Sims don't need it to have blood or swearing.
 
rodrigolfp said:
Based on last gen and even like that it struggles to run, so significantly weak for PS5 gen games without downgrades. 🤷‍♂️
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According to Oliver's analysis, in portable mode the Switch 2 version runs at a "decently" stable FPS and doesn't seem to suffer from the frequent frame drops seen on the Steam Deck.



Of course some downgrades will be necessary! We're talking about a system even in docked mode that is half of the Series S. But if the S version has a 60 FPS mode, you can drop to 30 FPS for the Switch 2's docked mode and drop resolution further in portable mode, while relying on DLSS.

Edit: Looking at user reports it seems that even at low settings on the Steam Deck with upscaling, Hogwarts drops to the low twenties in the city areas. So maybe the current gen version wouldn't have been viable on the Switch 2. But that's my point: plenty of current gen games run well on the Steam Deck, and plenty run badly. If a game runs well, then a Switch 2 port should be possible with some custom settings, while looking largely the same.
 
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rodrigolfp said:
No game is, that is the point. Even without proper optimizations for it, it still has some higher settings.

Frame rate on Switch 2 is also very choppy even with optimizations and the downgrades.
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That's your point but you missed mine. And the framerate is nowhere near as choppy as the Steam Deck version, I played the whole game on it, and I kept adjusting the settings to have an acceptable experience (like FSR ultra performance which makes the game look terrible).

A taylor-made Steam Deck version would've run better, but it doesn't exist, and its absence shouldn't be used as a proof of the Steam Deck's power
 
With Madden 26 releasing, and I assume selling well, when Switch 2's are still hard to find. I just checked, and there were 100k people playing online multiplayer. I assume there's a ton more not in that mode.
 
Felessan said:
It's survey. For adults only.
It's relevancy to actual age distribution of those who ~play~ and don't just own console in family is very questionable.
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its a survey from Nintendo when Switch had sold over 100 million but the results aren't what you want them to be so let's dismiss them.

mean girls whatever GIF



Also, you're in many Nintendo threads, crying about how bad they are and being a massive PlayStation fanboy, aren't you a bit old for such childish nonsense?

I
 
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ecosse_011172 said:
its a survey from Nintendo when Switch had sold over 100 million but the results aren't what you want them to be so let's dismiss them.

mean girls whatever GIF
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Don't bother, these days most kids playing MP games like Fornite or COD more than Nintendo games because that's what their friends play.
 
Back on topic, why does Randy Pitchford get consulted about and have easy access to Japanese console devkits. He does not belong to the elite tier of western devs. I remember during the PS4 era, he claimed that he was the one who insisted that Sony expand the RAM from 4 GB to 8 GB. Here also it seems like Gearbox is one of the few Western devs with access to the S2 devkit. BL4 will be released on S2, not much later than the PS5 and XS release. Meanwhile, CoD and BF, which are arguably much bigger and more commercially relevant games, have no concrete S2 port plans. This is not a Randy and Gearbox hate post, I love BL far more than CoD and BF, but it is intriguing how Gearbox has a close relationship with the console manufacturers.
 
BbMajor7th said:
Generational blending blurs the lines, but it's pretty clear that Nintendo target much younger audiences. They're not putting out games like Gears of War and The Last of Us.

The fact that adults increasingly engage with content aimed at much younger demographics is an odd trend for sure and the symptom of a widespread infantalisation of western society, but it doesn't change the reality.

I have friends nearing forty who read Young Adult Fiction almost exclusively - it's not for them but they're fast becoming one of the largest audiences for the genre.
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Wrong. They target everyone, and by targeting everyone the game needs to be younger friendly. And again, younger friendly =/= targeting the younger. And they are not also putting out Metroid, Big Brain Academy, Fire Emblem, Hotel Dusk??

Baemono said:
That's your point but you missed mine. And the framerate is nowhere near as choppy as the Steam Deck version, I played the whole game on it, and I kept adjusting the settings to have an acceptable experience (like FSR ultra performance which makes the game look terrible).

A taylor-made Steam Deck version would've run better, but it doesn't exist, and its absence shouldn't be used as a proof of the Steam Deck's power
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The frame rate is very near choppy yes while having lower than lowest settings there. So even downgraded the game suffers there.

FireFly said:
Of course some downgrades will be necessary!
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FireFly said:
If a game runs well, then a Switch 2 port should be possible with some custom settings, while looking largely the same.
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And that exactly my point. For Deck devs don't need to bother with a port and downgrades/custom settings. For Switch they need.
 
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rodrigolfp said:
And that exactly my point. For Deck devs don't need to bother with a port and downgrades/custom settings. For Switch they need.
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I agreed with that from the start. The debate is not whether the Switch 2 is more capable than the Steam Deck in portable mode. The debate is whether the Switch 2 can receive ports of current gen games.

Of course a port requires porting!
 
rodrigolfp said:
CP 2077. Hogwarts is even worse as almost everything in the Switch 2 version is last gen settings/assets.
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Well I was talking about Hogwarts. And How Hogwarts can be even worse while being between last gen and current gen version, so having worse versions (last gen console) and even a super worse version (Switch 1) ?
 
rodrigolfp said:
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I don't think using a launch game is the best example of what is or isn't possible of a newly launchedsystem. Launch games tend to have extremely shortened dev cycles and may make many cuts and compromises just to get out in time for launch.

That said I also still think it's somewhat impressive what they were able to accomplish given they had less time to actually work on the game than they normally would, especially in Cyberpunk's case.
 
Felessan said:
It's survey. For adults only.
It's relevancy to actual age distribution of those who ~play~ and don't just own console in family is very questionable.
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If its for adults only then how come some of the answers are below 18?
 
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Baemono said:
Did you watch the video ? They say better textures on Switch 2 and better image clarity, PS4 flickers a lot and they say the global result is superior on Switch 2
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So, again, almost everything is PS4 lvl. 🤷‍♂️

Gambit2483 said:
I don't think using a launch game is the best example of what is or isn't possible of a newly launchedsystem. Launch games tend to have extremely shortened dev cycles and may make many cuts and compromises just to get out in time for launch.

That said I also still think it's somewhat impressive what they were able to accomplish given they had less time to actually work on the game than they normally would, especially in Cyberpunk's case.
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So far it is what it is. For sure the port could be better with more work in it.
 
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rodrigolfp said:
Wrong. They target everyone, and by targeting everyone the game needs to be younger friendly. And again, younger friendly =/= targeting the younger. And they are not also putting out Metroid, Big Brain Academy, Fire Emblem, Hotel Dusk??
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I mean Disney put just put out Deadpool & Wolverine last year, but it doesn't change the fact they're synonymous with and continue to be most successful in the realm of children's entertainment (and that includes all those 12A action movies in the Marvel and Star Wars pantheons). In fact, Disney have gone considerably further than Nintendo in evolving their brand and they're still largely regarded as being primarily concerned with younger audiences. It's all about tone and content: brightly colored designs, exaggerated characters, simplistic narratives and binary moral outlooks are very much the norm for children's entertainment. That a growing number of adults prefer that to more complex and grounded ideas, with more nuance and light and shade should really be more concerning.

Woopah said:
The average age is probably younger, but a game doesn't need anything M rated to appeal to adults. People looking to play something like Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing or the The Sims don't need it to have blood or swearing.
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There's a difference between 'mature content' and adult-oriented stories. The majority of period dramas are rated 'U' but that doesn't mean they're aimed at kids - they're more concerned with the complex social interactions of adult life, considerations of class, wealth and social politics than with anything a kid gives two hoots about. Likewise, GTA is loaded with mature content whilst being one of the most utterly juvenile experiences in mainstream media.

If it's hard to imagine Mario or Splatoon, Kirby, Pikmin or even Zelda containing content that wouldn't be for children, then by definition it is kid first and it makes sense: that's their brand.
 
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rodrigolfp said:
Ftfy.
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Maybe to modern audiences, but that's only because market interests have driven a convergence between children's and adults' entertainment. The result is that 'adult' entertainment is now over simplified and watered down so that it can reach much younger audiences and children's content creators are being petitioned to constantly represent adult ideas and concerns in their animated talking animal adventures.

Go back sixty years and forty year old men were not arguing with each other about the affairs of spandex clad comicbook heroes - that was for their kids. Ours is a thoroughly infantilised generation who constantly begrudge the responsibilities of adulting, the generations coming up will be even worse. Nintendo have always had a younger demographic in mind - they've always designed things for children almost exclusively. They haven't changed, but the number of adults consuming children's content has absolutely skyrocketed.
 
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rodrigolfp said:
Old audiences still think video games are for kids only...

Plus:
550px-ESRB_Everyone.svg.png
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You're not listening or really trying to engage. In fact, I'm not surprised you're stanning for children's games, you're arguing like a five-year-old. You either have integrity to respond to my arguments and acknowledge the incontestable fact that demographic consumption of what was once exclusively deemed 'children's entertainment' has radically shifted, or you can keep spamming silly one sentence answers that ignore everything I'm saying. To adult or not to adult, the choice is yours.
 
BbMajor7th said:
There's a difference between 'mature content' and adult-oriented stories. The majority of period dramas are rated 'U' but that doesn't mean they're aimed at kids - they're more concerned with the complex social interactions of adult life, considerations of class, wealth and social politics than with anything a kid gives two hoots about. Likewise, GTA is loaded with mature content whilst being one of the most utterly juvenile experiences in mainstream media.

If it's hard to imagine Mario or Splatoon, Kirby, Pikmin or even Zelda containing content that wouldn't be for children, then by definition it is kid first and it makes sense: that's their brand.
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Things can be kid friendly but that doesn't make them kid first.

Fifa, Brain Age and Ring Fit for example are suitable for children. Not because they are targeting kids over adults, but because the type of game the developers are making don't need any adult-specific content.

What kind of content would you expect to see in a fitness game or brain training game that isn't suitable for children ?

Another great example is King. They primarily produce cartoony, colourful games that lack any mature content or adult-orientated stories. Their target audience is 25-45.
 
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Woopah said:
If its for adults only then how come some of the answers are below 18?
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You trust picture doesn't even knowing what it means? Brilliant

Iirc there is a part in survey where you can specify info about children, their age and what they play.
But as with any survey a) this information is sensitive so many will opt out, b) people like to avoid complex stuff and many will skip this section (surveys usually simple and straightforward as people get quickly bored and try to avoid filling lots of stuff)

PS. Do you see an unnatural spike at 20yo? This is how it looks like when kids themselves participate and can't choose their actual age
 
Felessan said:
You trust picture doesn't even knowing what it means? Brilliant

Iirc there is a part in survey where you can specify info about children, their age and what they play.
But as with any survey a) this information is sensitive so many will opt out, b) people like to avoid complex stuff and many will skip this section (surveys usually simple and straightforward as people get quickly bored and try to avoid filling lots of stuff)

PS. Do you see an unnatural spike at 20yo? This is how it looks like when kids themselves participate and can't choose their actual age
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sad arrested development GIF
 
BbMajor7th said:
You're not listening or really trying to engage. In fact, I'm not surprised you're stanning for children's games, you're arguing like a five-year-old. You either have integrity to respond to my arguments and acknowledge the incontestable fact that demographic consumption of what was once exclusively deemed 'children's entertainment' has radically shifted, or you can keep spamming silly one sentence answers that ignore everything I'm saying. To adult or not to adult, the choice is yours.
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I (and others in the thread too) am listening your lack of understanding what "for kids only" vs "for everyone" is.
 
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Woopah said:
Things can be kid friendly but that doesn't make them kid first.

Fifa and Ring Fit for example are suitable for children. Not because they are targeting kids over adults, but because the type of game the developers are making don't need any adult-specific content.

Another great example is King. They primarily produce cartoony, colourful games that lack any mature content or adult-orientated stories. Their target audience is 25-45.
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Only in a world where adults don't desire different things from children. Jane Austen's Emma is perfectly acceptable for kids to read or watch, but it's by no means 'kid-friendly'. Adults should want things that kids don't and those things needn't be stuff that would corrupt them, like violence and sex, but merely things that would utterly bore them, like slow-burning interpersonal drama, complex, flawed characters and mundane, real-world struggles.
 
rodrigolfp said:
I (and others in the thread too) am listening you lack of understanding what "for kids only" vs "for everyone" is.
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I understand your definition, I'm simply rejecting it and giving clear reasons why. You can engage with them or you can't. 'Suitable' or 'safe' for everyone, doesn't mean 'intended' for everyone. You can eat baby food if it pleases you - it won't do you any harm. But it's not intended for you. Likewise, children can eat a putanesca will olives, anchovies and capers (and they should probably be encouraged to), but you won't find it on the average children's menu.

These distinction are necessary and normal and it's very healthy for children to be increasingly exposed to things intended for adults, because that's where they're going to wind up one day, it's part of their development. It is not normal for adults to obsess over things designed for children - that's regressive and a sign of arrested development.

ecosse_011172 said:
Dude, you made some really good points and an intelligent argument, shame you let yourself down.
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You're right, I can get punchy sometimes. A personal flaw I fully acknowledge. I should probably have said 'arguing children's things are for everyone'.

rodrigolfp said:
Hahaha what???
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How is that controversial?
 
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