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[Crayon]

It's sad that people never realized how deep of a game nights really was.

Panzer dragoon zwei was a gen ahead in its production values.

That saddest thing for me is the Saturn never really got its full optimized moment. Right when games started coming out with nicer shading and lighting it was over.

Sad, but, it wasn't so obvious how to play it. It was pretty easy to blow through in a couple hours and say "that was it?". I thought the same despite being blown away for those couple hours.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Sega Saturn went down as a failure for a number of reasons, it had mythologies ahead of its time, and than ps1 killed it, there’s a reason why Sega Saturn is viewed this way, its popularity accelerated because of all the positive things people said about it 20+ years after.

 

[Muffdraul]

I dunno man, I bought my Saturn in May 1995 and it never left my rotation even after the PSX and N64 clobbered it in the market. but looking back at those games, meh. I only had some of them, but I wouldn't rate any that highly. I was the biggest Panzer Dragoon fan back in the day, PD1 was the game I bought with my Saturn, I'd been wanting to play it every since I saw a postage stamp sized screen shot in EGM probably in late 1994. I remember the last time I tried to play Zwei, probably 20 years ago now. Fun for about 10 minutes, then it was just some clunky old game.

 

[kevboard]

sorry but PDZ is not the type of game you would see on an N64, the structure is not the same as Starfox 64 or Star Wars Episode I: Battle for Naboo although they are incredible PDZ is a different beast.

its is entirely on rails, and the only notable use of the Saturn's hardware is the 2D capabilities used on the flat ground plane and the skybox. and you could totally replace both of these with only a few polygons on an N64, which again, can easily render 10.000 polygons on screen at once at 30fps

the rest of the graphics are far below a typical N64 game in terms of detail. very low poly rock formations and structures, and 2D billboards used for a lot of the more granular details.
I don't see why the N64 would have any issue doing that.

the nature of the level design in this game does really suit the N64 actually. the biggest issue the N64 can run into is overdraw. the on-rails design naturally lead to levels where most of the 3D elements are to the side of the player, often far away and with not much, if anything, behind them. so very little potential for overdraw to happen.

so I absolutely believe, if a bunch of homebrew devs went and ported the game to the N64, not only would it he comparable, they would probably be able to increase asset fidelity noticeably

 

[LordBlodgett]

Aside from VF2 and maybe PD Zwei, none of those are appealing nor were making gamers rethink of their choices.

They also don't have the incredible aura of N64 1996 line up first party games. In only 6 months, N64 had :

- Pilotwings 64
- Super Mario 64
- Wave Race 64
- Killer Instinct Gold
- Mario Kart 64

The only two of those N64 titles that were really amazing and unique though were Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64. Wave Race 64 was excellent but came out in a year with some really great racing games. Between Wave Race 64, Wipeout XL, and Sega Rally I would choose Sega Rally every day of the week. Killer Instinct Gold couldn't hold a candle to VF2, especially in terms of moving the fighting game genre forward. Heck, Killer Instinct Gold was a distant third place when comparing to VF2 and Tekken 2. Pilotwings 64 was cool, but was pretty darned boring. I definitely wouldn't have that in my top 20 1996 games.

 

[Variahunter]

The only two of those N64 titles that were really amazing and unique though were Super Mario 64 and Mario Kart 64. Wave Race 64 was excellent but came out in a year with some really great racing games. Between Wave Race 64, Wipeout XL, and Sega Rally I would choose Sega Rally every day of the week. Killer Instinct Gold couldn't hold a candle to VF2, especially in terms of moving the fighting game genre forward. Heck, Killer Instinct Gold was a distant third place when comparing to VF2 and Tekken 2. Pilotwings 64 was cool, but was pretty darned boring. I definitely wouldn't have that in my top 20 1996 games.

Sega Rally and VF2 were just downgraded ports of arcade games.
Nobody would play those today on Saturn aside from Sega fans.
Besides, Sega Rally was a 1994 arcade game and ported in 1995 on Saturn, so I don't even know why it's here.

N64 games were technologically way ahead of VF2 and Sega Rally on Saturn, and SM64 and MK64 are still largely played today on their original hardware.

 

[RAIDEN1]

Saturn was dead on arrival, no matter what the 1996 catalogue said....somehow Sega forgot what made the Genesis great, so that the learnings from that you could then apply to the launch of Saturn....I can't imagine there was anywhere near the level of infighting at the company back in 1986/87 prior to the launch of the Genesis, compared to how the Saturn was born..

 

[cireza]

I don't see why the N64 would have any issue doing that.

Because the console can't display textures ? That would be an issue.

not only would it he comparable

It would be the same for sure, but without the quality textures, without the videos, without the redbook audio, without the infinite planes that would be replaced by polygons with no/shitty textures, and would have to resort to fog in the distance etc... So not the same actually.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

N64 games were technologically way ahead of VF2 on Saturn

Which N64 fighting game beats VF2 technologically ?

 

[Sephimoth]

Can't pick, that entire list is my teens

(Except Baku Baku)

 

[existensmaximum]

common games, average at best.

Yeah, and definitely worse than every year of gaming with the Genesis/Mega Drive. Such a leap backwards.

 

[Komatsu]

Aside from VF2 and maybe PD Zwei, none of those are appealing nor were making gamers rethink of their choices.

They also don't have the incredible aura of N64 1996 line up first party games. In only 6 months, N64 had :

- Pilotwings 64
- Super Mario 64
- Wave Race 64
- Killer Instinct Gold
- Mario Kart 64

Aside from Super Mario 64, which was truly genre-molding, the SEGA 1996 lineup blows this out of the water. Comparing KI Gold to Virtua Fighter 2 or Pilotwings 64 to Zwei is an embarrassment.

 

[LordBlodgett]

Sega Rally and VF2 were just downgraded ports of arcade games.
Nobody would play those today on Saturn aside from Sega fans.
Besides, Sega Rally was a 1994 arcade game and ported in 1995 on Saturn, so I don't even know why it's here.

N64 games were technologically way ahead of VF2 and Sega Rally on Saturn, and SM64 and MK64 are still largely played today on their original hardware.

You are all over the place here. I thought we were talking about Sega's 1996 lineups being one of the best lineups ever.
First this means I should be comparing Sega and it's 1996 lineup to other consoles and their exclusive releases in a given year. OP is comparing it with some of the best consoles and release years like Dreamcast 2000, PS2 2001, and Xbox 360 2007. That means I am looking at these games through a 1996 lens.
Secondly, Who cares what console people play these games on now? Heck even the N64 games you are talking about run better in an emulator on PC than on an actual N64. In 1996 you could only play these games on Saturn or in the Arcade (for a few of them).
Third, who cares if the games were arcade ports? VF2 and Sega Rally may have been downgraded arcade ports, but they were some of the closest to original arcade ports that had ever been done, and being able to play pretty new near arcade level games at home was freaking awesome in 1996. Isn't Killer Instinct Gold mostly a port of the arcade version of Killer Instinct 2, but with less characters and combos?
Fourth, what does it matter if N64 games where technologically ahead? What does that have to do with best lineups? I play games for fun, and having the best technology does not always equate to the best lineup. The Nintendo Switch is proof enough of that in modern gaming.

Maybe I'm a little bit crazy, or just passionate about this, but I had all three systems in 1996 (Bought the Saturn and N64 at launch, and PS1 in February 1996). If I were to compare their first 12 months of games, I played the Saturn most out of all of those, though there were a couple of PS1 games that got a bunch of my time too. I DO agree with OP though, Saturn's 1996 was one of the best lineups ever........

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Yeah, and definitely worse than every year of gaming with the Genesis/Mega Drive. Such a leap backwards.

The 1993 Genesis lineup looks better.

Saturn is an excellent console but not for the games mentioned but for Street Fighter zero 3, Tkof 97, x-men vs street fighter, vampire savior, mk trilogy, The Legend of Oasis, Radiant Silvergun, Guardian Heroes, Dark Savior, PowerSlave, Duke Nukem 3D, from Sega only Fighters Megamix and Panzer Dragon Saga please me.

If some better first party games had been made perhaps the console could have competed for second place with Nintendo and won.

 

[Variahunter]

Which N64 fighting game beats VF2 technologically ?

SM64

 

[RetroGamingUK]

SM64

Frame rate? No
Resolution? No
Character geometry? No
Character animation? No
Textures? No

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Frame rate? No
Resolution? No
Character geometry? No
Character animation? No
Textures? No

apart from the shame of comparing an adventure game with a fighting game. He pretended to be unaware because he realized that no N64 fighting game is more advanced than the Saturn version of VF2, a 1995 game on an older console.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

The real gems of the Saturn library were stuck in Japan unfortunately.

 

[nkarafo]

Disagree.

Most of the games in the poll are arcade ports.

If you are into that kind of thing, sure. I never cared about arcade ports, personally. Especially on Saturn. They have minuscule content and are downgraded versions of the originals.

I prefer original, made for home games.

 

[Variahunter]

You are all over the place here. I thought we were talking about Sega's 1996 lineups being one of the best lineups ever.
First this means I should be comparing Sega and it's 1996 lineup to other consoles and their exclusive releases in a given year. OP is comparing it with some of the best consoles and release years like Dreamcast 2000, PS2 2001, and Xbox 360 2007. That means I am looking at these games through a 1996 lens.
Secondly, Who cares what console people play these games on now? Heck even the N64 games you are talking about run better in an emulator on PC than on an actual N64. In 1996 you could only play these games on Saturn or in the Arcade (for a few of them).
Third, who cares if the games were arcade ports? VF2 and Sega Rally may have been downgraded arcade ports, but they were some of the closest to original arcade ports that had ever been done, and being able to play pretty new near arcade level games at home was freaking awesome in 1996. Isn't Killer Instinct Gold mostly a port of the arcade version of Killer Instinct 2, but with less characters and combos?
Fourth, what does it matter if N64 games where technologically ahead? What does that have to do with best lineups? I play games for fun, and having the best technology does not always equate to the best lineup. The Nintendo Switch is proof enough of that in modern gaming.

Maybe I'm a little bit crazy, or just passionate about this, but I had all three systems in 1996 (Bought the Saturn and N64 at launch, and PS1 in February 1996). If I were to compare their first 12 months of games, I played the Saturn most out of all of those, though there were a couple of PS1 games that got a bunch of my time too. I DO agree with OP though, Saturn's 1996 was one of the best lineups ever........

Sega Rally is not a 1996 game. Check your facts.

Secondly : On Emulator ? They run better but they are not accurate. It's not the same as being the best VF2 or Sega Rally version aka the original arcade games which you can also emulate btw, and no one will play Saturn version over the arcade versions. Aside from KI Gold that best played on arcade, all those other games are N64 originals games so there is no better versions.

Third : Yes KI Gold isn't worth playing on N64. The same as VF2 and Sega Rally on Saturn. They are just very downgraded ports :



And they are not even the best console version...

Fourth : They are technologically ahead and different games, but they were more played and far more popular for a reason. And I say that even if I liked VF2, which was very popular but mostly in Japan back then.

Most of the games listed were also very short, and fighting games were played in the arcade, not a lot at home with friends (most didn't know how to play seriously).

And here we're talking about first party only on 6 months, but if we extend that to a year for N64 (from Launch in June 1996 to July 1997) it's not even a match.

 

[nkarafo]

apart from the shame of comparing an adventure game with a fighting game. He pretended to be unaware because he realized that no N64 fighting game is more advanced than the Saturn version of VF2, a 1995 game on an older console.

If we go for fighting games only, sure. VF2 is more advanced. But, to be fair, a game like Mace the Dark Age does a lot more with it's 3D interactive environments than the flat VF2 arenas and 2D backgrounds.

 

[Variahunter]

Aside from Super Mario 64, which was truly genre-molding, the SEGA 1996 lineup blows this out of the water. Comparing KI Gold to Virtua Fighter 2 or Pilotwings 64 to Zwei is an embarrassment.

I mean, SM64 and MK64 pretty much blows the saturn line up by themselves. And that's just 6 months because of the Japanese launch in June 1996, extending that to a year and you get Star Fox 64, Blast Corps and Goldeneye if we're taking USA launch...

 

[nkarafo]

Because the console can't display textures ? That would be an issue.

Huh? All N64 games have textures, what do you mean?

You must mean "quality textures".

The N64 can do that too, see Banjo-Kazooie. Or DOOM 64. But it's a more involved process because they need to split the textures like puzzle pieces.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

You didn't ask for a fighting games, you said "technologically".

I said clearly ''fighting game'' go back to previous conversations and see.

Plenty of N64 games surpass the best Saturn could offer.

no way

If we go for fighting games, sure. VF2 is more advanced.

amen

But, to be fair, a game like Mace the Dark Age does a lot more with it's 3D interactive environments than the flat VF2 arenas and 2D backgrounds.

8~30fps, half resolution.
That's because I didn't even compare it with DOA

 

[cartman414]

Saturn was dead on arrival, no matter what the 1996 catalogue said....somehow Sega forgot what made the Genesis great, so that the learnings from that you could then apply to the launch of Saturn....I can't imagine there was anywhere near the level of infighting at the company back in 1986/87 prior to the launch of the Genesis, compared to how the Saturn was born..

The Genesis was a fluke, and what was working there (Sonic!) was undergoing diminishing returns.

 

[nkarafo]

no way

That's a troll response. You know i'm right.

And, i'm not going to post a list of games since there are plenty. But show me just one game, a single 3D platform game on Saturn that compares to Banjo-Kazooie.

8~30fps, half resolution.

I said VF2 look better. But Mace does more. If Mace was ported on Saturn it would run much worse.

 

[Variahunter]

Frame rate? No
Resolution? No
Character geometry? No
Character animation? No
Textures? No

Real 3D games ? Yes.

And seriously, character animation = NO when talking about SM64 ?

Character Geometry ? I mean have you actually played N64 games compared to Saturn ? Saturn can't compete here. Edit : didn't realize you were only talking about VF2 versus SM64, so yes to this one, but VF2 only has characters to display, so Mario versus a VF2 character is a win for VF2 ofc.

Textures ? Yes, and they're not warping. But hindered by the blurry filter of the N64 yes.

Frame Rate ? Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a 20 fps game on Saturn man... Same as Star Fox 64. So ? Now give me a Mario 64 analogy on Saturn. Ah yes, there isn't.

Edit : Also keep in mind that I'm limiting myself to 1996. Launch games for N64 compared to 2 years dev experience on Saturn.
If we're talking about whole library, N64 blows the Saturn out of the water.

Jet Force Gemini, Banjo Tooie, Conker, Perfect Dark, Zelda MM... I mean come on.

 

[nkarafo]

Virtua Fighter 2 seems to be the poster child of Saturn's graphics in this topic. But if you look closer there's not much going on other than the high resolution and 60fps. The arenas are flat, backgrounds are 2D and there's no lighting at all, making the character models look flat also. Personally, i would rate Fighting Vipers higher in graphics, at least that one has some form of lighting that gives the scene some depth.

IMO, the most advanced Saturn games are Duke Nukem 3D and Quake. These do more than most other Saturn games and they are also the best console ports at the time.

 

[Variahunter]

apart from the shame of comparing an adventure game with a fighting game. He pretended to be unaware because he realized that no N64 fighting game is more advanced than the Saturn version of VF2, a 1995 game on an older console.

Listen to yourself.

It talks about technology. Then thinks that technology is resumed by frame rate, resolution and textures. But what does VF2 has to display on screen at all times ? A flat ground, 2 low poly characters and a jpeg background ? On top of having to loading times for each stage.

Please be serious, SM64 has a whole stage to display and to load, lots of interactions with the environment (compared to VF), enemies, draw distance etc do you actually know what you're talking about ?

 

[nkarafo]

Frame Rate ? Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a 20 fps game on Saturn man... Same as Star Fox 64.

Haven't played Zwei but Starfox 64 is 30fps, with slowdowns.

 

[Alexios]

Frame Rate ? Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a 20 fps game on Saturn man... Same as Star Fox 64. So ? Now give me a Mario 64 analogy on Saturn. Ah yes, there isn't.

PD Zwei is solid 30 on Saturn with very few instances of slowdown and 60fps in-engine cut scenes on top (plus a proper widescreen mode, though FMV cut scenes and menus get stretched, in-engine it's proper), you clearly haven't played Saturn games but still want to fiercely fight over them with misinformation, nice, I guess. Er, that the ground or whatever is not made of 2 triangles (large size polygons still slowed down the N64 mind so you couldn't infinitely stretch them) as rendered by now standard processors doesn't make them any less "real 3D" (ie fake 3D like all systems). Plus it can probably still have better texturing than most games on N64, as shown in games like Bulk Slash or Grandia. Anyway, who said Saturn is more powerful or better at 3D than N64 to even make this argument, just don't shit on games you have no clue about and haven't played, maybe.

 

[tkscz]

its is entirely on rails, and the only notable use of the Saturn's hardware is the 2D capabilities used on the flat ground plane and the skybox. and you could totally replace both of these with only a few polygons on an N64, which again, can easily render 10.000 polygons on screen at once at 30fps

the rest of the graphics are far below a typical N64 game in terms of detail. very low poly rock formations and structures, and 2D billboards used for a lot of the more granular details.
I don't see why the N64 would have any issue doing that.

the nature of the level design in this game does really suit the N64 actually. the biggest issue the N64 can run into is overdraw. the on-rails design naturally lead to levels where most of the 3D elements are to the side of the player, often far away and with not much, if anything, behind them. so very little potential for overdraw to happen.

so I absolutely believe, if a bunch of homebrew devs went and ported the game to the N64, not only would it he comparable, they would probably be able to increase asset fidelity noticeably

Don't, just don't. Whenever someone brings up a classic Nintendo console in a classic Sega console thread, ignore them. Did this with the SNES and Genesis.

Because the console can't display textures ? That would be an issue.


It would be the same for sure, but without the quality textures, without the videos, without the redbook audio, without the infinite planes that would be replaced by polygons with no/shitty textures, and would have to resort to fog in the distance etc... So not the same actually.

Stuff like this for example. I could easily bring up how the Saturn didn't have floating point processing, Z-buffering or anti-aliasing. I could post a Kaze Emanuar video showing that the N64 was far more capable than what was programed on it back in the day with the only thing holding back being bad use of programming language. But it doesn't do any good. So just don't.

Which N64 fighting game beats VF2 technologically ?

FIghter's Destiny

 

[Variahunter]

PD Zwei is solid 30 on Saturn with very few instances of slowdown and 60fps in-engine cut scenes on top (plus a proper widescreen mode, though FMV cut scenes and menus get stretched, in-engine it's proper), you clearly haven't played Saturn games but still want to fiercely fight over them with misinformation, nice, I guess. Er, that the ground or whatever is not made of 2 triangles (large size polygons still slowed down the N64 mind so you couldn't infinitely stretch them) as rendered by now standard processors doesn't make them any less "real 3D" (ie fake 3D like all systems).

Edit : Confused the first one with Zwei.

 

[Variahunter]

Don't, just don't. Whenever someone brings up a classic Nintendo console in a classic Sega console thread, ignore them. Did this with the SNES and Genesis.


Stuff like this for example. I could easily bring up how the Saturn didn't have floating point processing, Z-buffering or anti-aliasing. I could post a Kaze Emanuar video showing that the N64 was far more capable than what was programed on it back in the day with the only thing holding back being bad use of programming language. But it doesn't do any good. So just don't.

FIghter's Destiny

SM64 has been rewriten and works at 60 fps on original hardware nowadays... ! Truly untaped potential.

 

[Alexios]

Sorry but no :



Stop spreading misinformation.

That's the original game you time stamped not Zwei (it means 2!) so stop embarassing yourself, maybe. The same video has Zwei further ahead and mentions the improvement, loser. Further evidence you don't know ANYTHING about the games you trash (1 looks so different to 2 it's impossible to confuse) and just google for the worst hot takes. Mind even the original PD has a higher fps mode but they only managed to optimize it too late in production so it's treated as a cheat that simply speeds up game speed and desyncs the music and other elements alongside the higher framerate.

 

[nkarafo]

Sorry but no :



Stop spreading misinformation.

That's the original Panzer Dragoon. Zwei seems like it's running at a higher frame rate.

 

[Variahunter]

That's the original game you time stamped not Zwei (it means 2!) so stop embarassing yourself, maybe. The same video has Zwei further ahead and mentions the improvement, loser. Further evidence you don't know ANYTHING about the games you played (1 looks so different to 2 it's impossible to confuse) and just google for the worst hot takes. Mind even the original PD has a higher fps mode but they only managed to optimize it too late in production so it's treated as a cheat that simply speeds up game speed and desyncs the music and other elements alongside the higher framerate.

My bad, I got confused. I've played them a long time ago. It's 30 fps with slowdowns (as per DF video) so mostly the same as Star Fox.

For further comparisons, Sin and Punishment is at least 30 fps and smoother.

Edit : I wonder why you edited your orignal post here ? Maybe you should calm down, it's just video games.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

But show me just one game, a single 3D platform game on Saturn that compares to Banjo-Kazooie.

no, it's you who needs to show me games equivalent to these (preferably with a frame rate above 20fps).
I won't mention fighting games or 2D games because you confirmed that the N64 is far behind in this regard and I'm talking about incredible games like Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter and Vampire Savior.

Enemy Zero
Myst
Radiant Silvergun
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Guardian Heroes
Grandia
Taromaru
Winter Heat
Bulk Slash
Duke Nukem 3D
powerslave
gungriffon 2
decathlete
Street Racer Extra
Digital Dance Mix
clockwork knight
mass destruction

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

FIghter's Destiny

nah low res and 30fps

 

[nkarafo]

no, it's you who needs to show me games equivalent to these (preferably with a frame rate above 20fps).
I won't mention fighting games or 2D games because you confirmed that the N64 is far behind in this regard and I'm talking about incredible games like Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter and Vampire Savior.

Enemy Zero
Myst
Radiant Silvergun
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Guardian Heroes
Grandia
Taromaru
Winter Heat
Bulk Slash
Duke Nukem 3D
powerslave
gungriffon 2
decathlete
Street Racer Extra
Digital Dance Mix
clockwork knight
mass destruction

Lol you are posting lists now? Are we really going to do that? Also, Dance Dance mix? Myst? Really, an FMV game? You just posted random games you happen to like?

Also, how come you avoided my question like this? You asked for fighting games and you got an answer but when someone asks for something you go "no, you"

Are you 12? I don't know many 12 year old Saturn fanboys, that's impressive.

 

[Naked Lunch]

Zwei and Sega Rally are untouchable.
Truly 2 of the greats.

Gaming of today has nothing on those days...

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

Listen to yourself.

It talks about technology. Then thinks that technology is resumed by frame rate, resolution and textures. But what does VF2 has to display on screen at all times ? A flat ground, 2 low poly characters and a jpeg background ? On top of having to loading times for each stage.

If it's so simple, why hasn't any N64 game that uses this technique managed to do it the same or better than VF2 ? The 'jpeg' that you cite in a dismissive tone is the largest bitmap of that entire generation, there is nothing like it on any other console, whether CD or cartridge.

 

[nkarafo]

Anyway show me:

- A better looking 3D platform game than Banjo-Kazooie or Conker's Bad Fur Day or Rayman 2

- A better racing game than World Driving Championship or Stunt Racer 64 or Rush 2049

- A better looking FPS than Goldeneye (and yes, Duke Nukem 3D and Quake also have frame rate issues)

- A better looking FPS game than DOOM 64 (that doesn't have frame rate issues)

- A better looking sports game than 1080 Snowboarding or NFL Quarterback Club 98

- A better looking 3rd person Adventure/Action game than Shadowman

- A better looking water based racing game than Wave Race or Hydro Thunder


Or not, i don't care tbh. You will probably just rumble about "low resolution" this and "low fps" that, as if the vast majority of Saturn games don't also run at lower frame rate/resolution.

If it's so simple, why hasn't any N64 game that uses this technique managed to do it the same or better than VF2 ? The 'jpeg' that you cite in a dismissive tone is the largest bitmap of that entire generation, there is nothing like it on any other console, whether CD or cartridge.

Because it's made by a certain team that excels in character models and animation, who also didn't make games for the N64.

There are comparable games by Namco on PS1 if you are interested.

Also, again, VF2 also does sacrifices. You only care about the high resolution and 60fps but the arena is flat with a 2D background and there is no lighting. Even VF1 had lighting and looks like it has more depth than VF2.

 

[Markio128]

Sega Rally was awesome, simple as.

Panzer Dragoon and VF 2 were also great, but some of the others were pretty mid in all fairness.

 

[Crayon]

I could not afford a sega rally arcade machine in 1996. Much less 1995. Saturn was a fine way to play them.

As someone who has a respectable retro collection and actually uses it, N64 collects dust. Saturn gets used all the time. Sega Rally and VF2 are fucked out because they are amazing and I've played them so much, but there's loads of top tier shit on there whether you are concerned with games "holding up" or not.

edit: By the way these retro console wars are fucking great!

 

[Sooner]

That's not an impressive list of games. I got a Saturn at its surprise launch. It was a pretty underwhelming generation.

 

[Muffdraul]

That's not an impressive list of games. I got a Saturn at its surprise launch. It was a pretty underwhelming generation.

I had just lost my wallet and popped over to the mall to buy a new one. I walked past Software Etc. and there was a big handmade sign in the window: SEGA SATURN!!! ITS HERE!!! IN STOCK NOW!!! I thought, "What the hell? It's months away!" I went in and they had a huge stack of them. They wouldn't take a check, so I had to withdraw the max allowable $300 from an ATM and then come back the next day and withdraw the rest. Having to wait until the next day felt like one of those ironic "oh no have I gone to hell?" punishments. A lot of people don't seem to realize, there was like a good year or two where it felt like the Saturn was a worthy successor to the Genesis/Megadrive and you just had to be patient for the next gen Sonic game to come out.

 

[RoboFu]

Sega Rally is not a 1996 game. Check your facts.

Secondly : On Emulator ? They run better but they are not accurate. It's not the same as being the best VF2 or Sega Rally version aka the original arcade games which you can also emulate btw, and no one will play Saturn version over the arcade versions. Aside from KI Gold that best played on arcade, all those other games are N64 originals games so there is no better versions.

Third : Yes KI Gold isn't worth playing on N64. The same as VF2 and Sega Rally on Saturn. They are just very downgraded ports :



And they are not even the best console version...

Fourth : They are technologically ahead and different games, but they were more played and far more popular for a reason. And I say that even if I liked VF2, which was very popular but mostly in Japan back then.

Most of the games listed were also very short, and fighting games were played in the arcade, not a lot at home with friends (most didn't know how to play seriously).

And here we're talking about first party only on 6 months, but if we extend that to a year for N64 (from Launch in June 1996 to July 1997) it's not even a match.

this is a joke right?

 

[kevboard]

Because the console can't display textures ? That would be an issue.

the fuck? the N64 has multiple tricks to make large flat planes look good and detailed.

it can load 2 textutes at once for surfaces, with only a minor increase in render time, sometimes without an increase even. so you can have for example a texture for larger patterns and a detail texture on the same surface.

one texture can add variety through different color shades, and the detail texture can add, well, detail, like grass patches or stone etc.

It would be the same for sure, but without the quality textures, without the videos, without the redbook audio, without the infinite planes that would be replaced by polygons with no/shitty textures, and would have to resort to fog in the distance etc... So not the same actually.

videos and audio, sure... I mean it is doable as we could see in Resident Evil 2.

but the distance fog is nonsense. that was only used because it was literally free and developers could just turn it on to hide pop-in.

replacing a flat plane with a flat mesh makes literally no difference in practice. and as I said, that texture stuff is pure nonsense.

 

[Variahunter]

If it's so simple, why hasn't any N64 game that uses this technique managed to do it the same or better than VF2 ? The 'jpeg' that you cite in a dismissive tone is the largest bitmap of that entire generation, there is nothing like it on any other console, whether CD or cartridge.

Fighters destiny seems more advanced than VF2.