Support NeoGAF

[Wilsongt]

Which was ultimately the point of Russia's leaks. Leak a series of out-of-context emails from multiple sources meant to agitate the wound over, and over, and over, and over, and over, to keep the wound from ever healing, to prevent Democrats from rallying behind their candidate.

Mission Accomplished! It's a hell of a strategy, in hindsight.



Because that would involve acknowledging that they got hopelessly played by foreign actors. That would be super depressing, wouldn't it?

I donated to Bernie in the primaries, but I moved and fought against his conspiracy-minded BS.

Not to mention that you have an almost constant teabagging of anti-Hillary and GOP people towards Hillary, her campaign, and supporters.

 

[fantomena]

Blaming Bernie Bros is hilarious.

 

[The Technomancer]

Blaming Bernie Bros is hilarious.

They are a small piece of a larger narrative that framed Clinton as corrupt and illegitimate based on exactly no evidence, so I wouldn't say they are blame free, but then I also think their overall impact on the election in the end wasn't particularly large either

 

[fantomena]

They are a small piece of a larger narrative that framed Clinton as corrupt and illegitimate based on exactly no evidence, so I wouldn't say they are blame free, but then I also think their overall impact on the election in the end wasn't particularly large either

Perhaps not blame free, but their impact on the election was very small, imo.

Same thing goes to yass queeners how they acted when Bernie didn't stop. Calling him and his supporters, assholes, old man yells at cloud, piece of shit, trash even racists.

 

[guek]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit fucking testy with people who just somehow can't seem to move past nearly eight months ago how their object of obsession lost his primary bid. I don't want to help, I want them to shut the fuck up, quite frankly, and let the adults in the room discuss what to do about our actual predicament instead of filling every single election thread with counterfactuals about how rigged the whole thing was against their awesome socialism jesus and how scandal free his campaign would have been and how high his popularity would have skyrocketed if not for mean ol Hillary and that darn DNC

Consider how the "other" side is tired of people blaming Berniebros for Hillary's loss people who try to downplay any failing on the campaign or the unlike-ability of the candidate in question. I think everyone that's not a Trump supporter feels a lot like you do, just for very different reasons. I don't see how your condescending attitude does anything to address our actual predicament.

You were corrected by 3 posters, and it took me calling you out a second time to get you to recognize it.

Oh, and you deflected while doing it!

Dude, I'm not religiously checking this thread. I responded to Technomancer first because unlike you, he wasn't being a complete dick. Why are you so fixated on a minor reading error? People make reading errors all the time, is this really what's important to you? I recognized my error, it doesn't detract from pointing out your bitterness.

 

[Neoweee]

Blaming Bernie Bros is hilarious.

Hilarious, but also partially true.

Are you honestly contesting that the Wikileaks stuff would have had the same effect if Bernie Bros hadn't spent months peddling completely batshit insane conspiracy theories about rigged coin tosses, shut polling stations, voter purges, and outright rigged and hacked voting machines? Or that he could actually get 90% of the vote in California? Or that the DNC was going to suddenly throw out the entire primary season to anoint him the candidate at the convention despite losing by millions of votes?

Impossible. Bernie Bros sowed paranoid discord that allowed much smaller iritations to ignite in the weeks leading up to November 8th. If Bernie had quit on March 15th, when he was essentially eliminated beyond what any previous candidate in history had attempted to overcome, Hillary probably would have won on Nov 8th. The insane spike in animosity after March 15th, despite Bernie having essentially no chance by then, is almost certainly more than the 1% swing she would have needed to win the election.

Remember: Any effect greater than a 0.7% impact swings the election. There's a hell of a lot of blame to go around. Hillary deserves a lot of it, but don't dismiss the insane BS that she had to put up with and mostly handled with grace.

 

[Lothars]

Perhaps not blame free, but their impact on the election was very small, imo.

Same thing goes to yass queeners how they acted when Bernie didn't stop. Calling him and his supporters, assholes, old man yells at cloud, piece of shit, trash even racists.

The thing is there are multiple bernie bros that keep coming up in threads and shitting it up even when the thread is about something else. Nobody is blame free in the loss inlcuding the FBI, The hackings and Bernie Bros, Of Course Clinton deserves some of the blame but there are more factors than just her and how she campaigned.

 

[fantomena]

The thing is there are multiple bernie bros that keep coming up in threads and shitting it up even when the thread is about something else. Nobody is blame free in the loss and Clinton deserves some of the blame but there are more factors than just her and how she campaigned.

What exactly is a bernie bro and where did the term come up from?

I assume it's a yass queener for Bernie.

 

[guek]

If Bernie had quit on March 15th, when he was essentially eliminated beyond what any previous candidate in history had attempted to overcome, Hillary probably would have won. The insane spike in animosity after March 15th, despite Bernie having essentially no chance by then, is almost certainly more than the 1% swing she would have needed to win the election.

This is about as productive as saying Bernie or Biden would have absolutely won against Trump if they had run in place of Hillary. It's also really silly to argue that Trump wouldn't have drummed up as much animosity if Sanders had just dropped out earlier.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Hilarious, but also partially true.

Are you honestly contesting that the Wikileaks stuff would have had the same effect if Bernie Bros hadn't spent months peddling completely batshit insane conspiracy theories about rigged coin tosses, shut polling stations, voter purges, and outright rigged and hacked voting machines? Or that he could actually get 90% of the vote in California? Or that the DNC was going to suddenly throw out the entire primary season to anoint him the candidate at the convention despite losing by millions of votes?

Impossible. Bernie Bros sowed paranoid discord that allowed much smaller iritations to ignite in the weeks leading up to November 8th. If Bernie had quit on March 15th, when he was essentially eliminated beyond what any previous candidate in history had attempted to overcome, Hillary probably would have won. The insane spike in animosity after March 15th, despite Bernie having essentially no chance by then, is almost certainly more than the 1% swing she would have needed to win the election.

Yeah. It should be especially obvious when Trump himself used that as a line of attack in the general election.

Bernie supporters like to tell Hillary supporters to look at themselves and their candidate in the mirror and reflect on the election, but refuse to do it to their own candidate.

 

[The Technomancer]

I personally at least have very little interest in discussing Bernie in the primary any further (now his recent Tweets, that's another matter). I think the overall effect of that primary had plenty of time to be corrected by November and any impact you could ascribe to it is outweighed by everything from Comey's direct actions to the consistent failures of our news media to, yes, Clinton's own campaign strategy. Though I maintain that the latter wasn't as bad as some people like to say it was. It clearly wasn't great

 

[fantomena]

I personally at least have very little interest in discussing Bernie in the primary any further (now his recent Tweets, that's another matter). I think the overall effect of that primary had plenty of time to be corrected by November and any impact you could ascribe to it is outweighed by everything from Comey's direct actions to the consistent failures of our news media

Kinda agreed. Moore had it also correct how Trump would win, a guy PoliGAF called a delusional nut cause he endorsed Bernie during the primaries: http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

 

[Lights and Waves]

Hilarious, but also partially true.

Are you honestly contesting that the Wikileaks stuff would have had the same effect if Bernie Bros hadn't spent months peddling completely batshit insane conspiracy theories about rigged coin tosses, shut polling stations, voter purges, and outright rigged and hacked voting machines? Or that he could actually get 90% of the vote in California? Or that the DNC was going to suddenly throw out the entire primary season to anoint him the candidate at the convention despite losing by millions of votes?

Impossible. Bernie Bros sowed paranoid discord that allowed much smaller iritations to ignite in the weeks leading up to November 8th. If Bernie had quit on March 15th, when he was essentially eliminated beyond what any previous candidate in history had attempted to overcome, Hillary probably would have won on Nov 8th. The insane spike in animosity after March 15th, despite Bernie having essentially no chance by then, is almost certainly more than the 1% swing she would have needed to win the election.

Remember: Any effect greater than a 0.7% impact swings the election. There's a hell of a lot of blame to go around. Hillary deserves a lot of it, but don't dismiss the insane BS that she had to put up with and mostly handled with grace.

I'm thankful to have poeple like you posting in these threads. Thank you for delivering the facts and being poised.

 

[Earthstrike]

.

Lol. Stormking has barged in multiple threads now and instantly shit on Hilary even when it's not relevant to the conversation simply because that is his current objective.

 

[Lothars]

What exactly is a bernie bro and where did the term come up from?

I assume it's a yass queener for Bernie.

It's the insane supporters that supported Bernie and as soon as the primary was done blamed his loss on the DNC, Clinton and everything else. They may have not voted or wanted to see the world burn and voted for Trump. It's also a very small subsect of Bernie Supporters.

 

[fantomena]

It's the insane supporters that supported Bernie and as soon as the primary was done blamed his loss on the DNC, Clinton and everything else. They may have not voted or wanted to see the world burn and voted for Trump. It's also a very small subsect of Bernie Supporters.

So a typical small fraction of supporters of a candidate who loses.

 

[Breads]

I'm prety sure this stupid EC system we have is what gave it to him.

But if you want to do something about espionage/ wikileaks and comey by all means - go for it.

 

[Lothars]

So a typical small fraction of supporters of a candidate who loses.

That's my thought on it.

 

[The Technomancer]

So a typical small fraction of supporters of a candidate who loses.

I have no illusions about how powerful they are, especially now, they're just annoying

 

[guek]

I personally at least have very little interest in discussing Bernie in the primary any further (now his recent Tweets, that's another matter). I think the overall effect of that primary had plenty of time to be corrected by November and any impact you could ascribe to it is outweighed by everything from Comey's direct actions to the consistent failures of our news media to, yes, Clinton's own campaign strategy. Though I maintain that the latter wasn't as bad as some people like to say it was. It clearly wasn't great

All of this is common sense that is sadly lost on many.

 

[old]

Comey didn't hand anything to anybody. Clinton's support for NAFTA did. She was never going to win the Rust Belt.

 

[fantomena]

I have no illusions about how powerful they are, especially now, they're just annoying

Same with Hillary and Trump supporters. Same with all sorts of supporters.

Comey didn't hand anything to anybody. Clinton's support for NAFTA did. She was never going to win the Rust Belt.

Bernie had the anti-nafta, anti-tpp and anti-establishment that Clinton didn't.

Actually, Clinton came against tpp during the primaries, but people didn't believe her, not sure about how she is about nafta.

Wherever that statement is true I don't know. Best way is probably to to go the rust belt, face the people and ask them.

 

[Isaac Otherworld]

The reason for "The Primary Will Never End" as you guys put it is because there is a very real, serious ideological divide within the Democratic party over where it's leadership should come from and how much control the megawealthy should have over the party platform and whether they should even be considered part of it's constituency. Hillary, Bernie and the Democratic primary are just symbols and are a quick and easy reference point.

You guys can't even except that the divide is real and it's there. You just keep pretending like a bunch of people are angry and rude for no reason.

Clinton supporters think that Bernie supporters are just worthless paupers, good for nothing more than casting a ballot in elections and should sit back and shut up and go back to working their minimum wage jobs while the adults in the room discuss what kind of tax holiday we should give to corporations wanting to repatriate taxes from over seas and how to get DAPL pushed through as quietly as possible. They think that we're wrong for expecting the party to support workers over the corporations crushing us economically. Or that it's rude of us to expect White Flag Democrats need to stop being surrender monkeys, and start fighting the Republicans as hard possible. Or if they can't manage that to go home so we can get someone who will.

 

[Nafai1123]

Comey didn't hand anything to anybody. Clinton's support for NAFTA did. She was never going to win the Rust Belt.

I need special fire-retardant gloves to handle this hot take.

 

[StormKing]

Criticizing Hillary Clinton and the DNC is not the same as supporting Bernie Sanders.

I wanted more candidates to run in the primaries. Biden, Warren, Brown, Gillibrand, and others should have ran. Instead it seemed that a lot of Democrats just got out of Hillary's way. I hope that doesn't happen in 2020.

 

[SneakersSO]

The reason for "The Primary Will Never End" as you guys put it is because there is a very real, serious ideological divide within the Democratic party over where it's leadership should come from and how much control the megawealthy should have over the party platform and whether they should even be considered part of it's constituency. Hillary, Bernie and the Democratic primary are just symbols and are a quick and easy reference point.

You guys can't even except that the divide is there, and that at least 46% of the party want a shift in direction.

Clinton supporters think that Bernie supporters are just worthless paupers, good for nothing more than casting a ballot in elections and should sit back and shut up and go back to working their minimum wage jobs while the adults in the room discuss what kind of tax holiday we should give to corporations wanting to repatriate taxes from over seas and how to get DAPL pushed through as quietly as possible. They think that we're wrong for expecting the party to support workers over the corporations crushing us economically. Or that it's rude of us to expect White Flag Democrats need to stop being surrender monkeys, and start fighting the Republicans as hard possible. Or if they can't manage that to go home so we can get someone who will.

I'm a life-long democrat who left the party during the primaries after seeing the efforts the DNC & other democrats would go to bend over backwards towards corporate interests. However, since i'm a minority, I keep getting told that they have my best interest at heart, and that I need to stop complaining and go vote for the only party who supposedly gives a damn about me.

I realized, during this election, that all this talk of minority support is lip service from the dems. It's just election strategy to further entrench themselves within their electorate. Until I see major change from within the democratic party, I will not be voting for them in any election.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Comey didn't hand anything to anybody. Clinton's support for NAFTA did. She was never going to win the Rust Belt.

Is it possible that Clinton's support for NAFTA explains why she underperformed significantly and could never open up a durable advantage over Trump in those states, AND that Comey's intervention had very small marginal effects on turnout and late-breaking independents that exceeded the margin of victory? is your claim that the Comey stuff cost Clinton literally 0 votes, or a number above 0 but below the margin?

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

The reason for "The Primary Will Never End" as you guys put it is because there is a very real, serious ideological divide within the Democratic party over where it's leadership should come from and how much control the megawealthy should have over the party platform and whether they should even be considered part of it's constituency. Hillary, Bernie and the Democratic primary are just symbols and are a quick and easy reference point.

You guys can't even except that the divide is real and it's there. You just keep pretending like a bunch of people are angry and rude for no reason.

Clinton supporters think that Bernie supporters are just worthless paupers, good for nothing more than casting a ballot in elections and should sit back and shut up and go back to working their minimum wage jobs while the adults in the room discuss what kind of tax holiday we should give to corporations wanting to repatriate taxes from over seas and how to get DAPL pushed through as quietly as possible. They think that we're wrong for expecting the party to support workers over the corporations crushing us economically. Or that it's rude of us to expect White Flag Democrats need to stop being surrender monkeys, and start fighting the Republicans as hard possible. Or if they can't manage that to go home so we can get someone who will.

We literally just had the most progressive platform in U.S. history.

 

[The Technomancer]

Clinton supporters think that Bernie supporters are just worthless paupers, good for nothing more than casting a ballot in elections and should sit back and shut up and go back to working their minimum wage jobs while the adults in the room discuss what kind of tax holiday we should give to corporations wanting to repatriate taxes from over seas and how to get DAPL pushed through as quietly as possible. They think that we're wrong for expecting the party to support workers over the corporations crushing us economically. Or that it's rude of us to expect White Flag Democrats need to stop being surrender monkeys, and start fighting the Republicans as hard possible. Or if they can't manage that to go home so we can get someone who will.

I don't think any of that. I think that supporting a man who even this morning is still talking about how we need to "bring back industry" because "globalism is bad" might not actually be a politician worth following no matter how much you want everything else he's selling

@SenSanders

60,000 factories in the U.S. have shut down in the last 15 years. Many who lost their manufacturing jobs now earn 60% of what they used to.

A great nation can't simply import the products it uses. We need to re-industrialize America and create millions of good paying paying jobs.

 

[Psychoward]

The blame game and mental gymnastics as usual. Clinton was a shit candidate with a shit campaign, and voters couldn't swallow voting for her. Especially in the Rust Belt where her trade deals and arrogance killed her.

The "blame game" implies there can only be one fault here, the thread isn't about that.

 

[jack_package_200]

The "blame game" implies there can only be one fault here, the thread isn't about that.

Sadly this thread devolved into relitigating the primaries like many other political threads.

 

[Psychoward]

The reason for "The Primary Will Never End" as you guys put it is because there is a very real, serious ideological divide within the Democratic party over where it's leadership should come from and how much control the megawealthy should have over the party platform and whether they should even be considered part of it's constituency. Hillary, Bernie and the Democratic primary are just symbols and are a quick and easy reference point.

You guys can't even except that the divide is real and it's there. You just keep pretending like a bunch of people are angry and rude for no reason.

Clinton supporters think that Bernie supporters are just worthless paupers, good for nothing more than casting a ballot in elections and should sit back and shut up and go back to working their minimum wage jobs while the adults in the room discuss what kind of tax holiday we should give to corporations wanting to repatriate taxes from over seas and how to get DAPL pushed through as quietly as possible. They think that we're wrong for expecting the party to support workers over the corporations crushing us economically. Or that it's rude of us to expect White Flag Democrats need to stop being surrender monkeys, and start fighting the Republicans as hard possible. Or if they can't manage that to go home so we can get someone who will.

Holy shit dude, that's a lot of persecution in that last paragraph. Especially as someone else said we were running on the most progressive platform in US history.

What does talking about the minimum wage have anything to do with this when Hillary was always in favor of raising it?

 

[Hoho for breakfast]

Right it's all his fault, and definitely not that people highly disliked Hillary Clinton to begin with. And I didn't read the whole thread, but I hope people are not seriously putting blame on Sanders supporters.

 

[StormKing]

We literally just had the most progressive platform in U.S. history.

That didn't matter due to Clinton's high untrustworthy ratings. She wasn't trusted to actually fight for those policies especially when she spent most of her ads on bashing trump rather than showing how progressive she was. Her strategy was to go after republicans and independents who hated Trump rather than democrats who wanted progressive policies.

She ran as the anti-Trump candidate rather than the progressive candidate.

 

[David H Wong]

Holy shit dude, that's a lot of persecution in that last paragraph. Especially as someone else said we were running on the most progressive platform in US history.

What does talking about the minimum wage have anything to do with this when Hillary was always in favor of raising it?

The idea that Democrats would have won by being more left-wing is laugh-out-loud hilarious to me. How insulated does your bubble have to be? "Sure, the people have elected 33 Republican governors and 32 Republican state legislatures and a Republican House and Senate, but what we REALLY need is a candidate who calls himself a socialist and is running on higher taxes."

They are so disconnected with what most of America wants that it's kind of scary. I guess that's what happens when Bernie supporters talk to no one other than other Bernie supporters. How many of them thought he was still going to be declared the candidate at the convention? "But reddit said there was still a chance!"

 

[Cipherr]

Blaming Bernie Bros is hilarious.

Making this post is hilarious considering this topic is about anything BUT bernie in the first place, and that the only reason he is being discussed in this specific individual topic is because his fans are literally dragging his body into this from out of fucking nowhere.

Comey is the actual OP if you can believe it. Go back and read this thread and see if you can figure out who forced Bernie of all people into a discussion about the FBI influencing the GENERAL of which Bernie was not a part.

Or... just point at everyone and laugh at them for "blaming Bernie Bros"... because that's TOTALLY what this thread was intended to be about from the start right?

 

[MIMIC]

Back to Comey? Really? People have been saying since FOREVER that nobody likes Hillary.

Against a man like DONALD TRUMP, this election should have been a layup. Trump disqualified himself on a daily basis and the fact that this election was even close says more about how much people were willing to cut their noses off to spite their faces just to vote against Hillary.

I mean, look at this shit! Look at how many Trump voters were voting against Hillary this election:

 

[GravityInsanity]

Media has the most power in the world. They can persuade people however they like. Educated or not. In ways I feel disgraced to be an American because we allowed an man with a 13 year old brain who likes to grab women by the pu**y run this country, but wait lets just keep reporting news about Hillary's emails.

 

[QuantumBro]

Media has the most power in the world. They can persuade people however they like. Educated or not. In ways I feel disgraced to be an American because we allowed an man with a 13 year old brain who likes to grab women by the pu**y run this country, but wait lets just keep reporting news about Hillary's emails.

If the media has so much power, why did their preferred candidate lose?

 

[Nafai1123]

If the media has so much power, why did their preferred candidate lose?

Because they valued ratings over doing their fucking jobs.

 

[saltypickles]

Of course a secret cabal of James Comey, Bernie Bros and Adidas tracksuit wearing Russian teenage hackers conspired to put Trump into the White House! Abuela Hillary did absolutely nothing wrong throughout her campaign to cause her to lose. Sister Hillary should not have any blame put on her, at all, for whatever reason. She is perfect. She is Athena.

/s

We literally just had the most progressive platform in U.S. history.

LOL nobody cares about the platform, it's what candidates actually say and do. If you actually think Hillary would have followed that platform 100% I have multiple bridges to sell you.

 

[guek]

Because they valued ratings over doing their fucking jobs.

Yup. Plus they totally bought into and corroborated the notion that Trump had no chance of winning. Both the media and Clinton's camp are guilty of that.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

So it seems a lot of people in this thread are OK with the FBI Director overtly influencing an election, and apparently bringing it up at all is whining? OK.

 

[jack_package_200]

So it seems a lot of people in this thread are OK with the FBI Director overtly influencing an election, and apparently bringing it up at all is whining? OK.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

It is indeed baffling.

 

[Cipherr]

So it seems a lot of people in this thread are OK with the FBI Director overtly influencing an election, and apparently bringing it up at all is whining? OK.

Mix that with conservatives not caring because it helped them win? And hot damn. Zero fucks given nationwide about some really gross shit.

Good luck to us in reversing the precedent this shit sets when 80% of people couldn't give a rats ass that it happened. Feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

 

[radios shipping overview]

So it seems a lot of people in this thread are OK with the FBI Director overtly influencing an election, and apparently bringing it up at all is whining? OK.

And apparently the data showing that undecideds made up their minds right after the letter was released is meaningless in the face of pet theories.

Russia hacks DNC to influence election: ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

FBI director breaks procedure and makes political play to throw the election: ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Hillary won't be president: OH THANK GOD

 

[Ray Down]

So it seems a lot of people in this thread are OK with the FBI Director overtly influencing an election, and apparently bringing it up at all is whining? OK.

Its so sad people don't see this as an issue.

 

[LOLCats]

I cant wait till this guy (Harry Reid) is gone.

 

[QuantumBro]

Because they valued ratings over doing their fucking jobs.

Can you expand? Hopefully something beyond it's their fault for reporting on the email server?

 

[Cipherr]

Can you expand? Hopefully something beyond it's their fault for reporting on the email server?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/02/les-moonves-trump-cbs-220001

Enough to make your skin crawl