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[minor effort]

Stop fighting about the god damn 2016 democratic primary in every fucking thread related to Clinton, Bernie and Trump. Both Hillary and Bernie lost, they're both losers who'll never be president.

And it's my sincere hope both fade away from being movement figureheads in the Democratic party, and I say that despite my personal support of both candidates being pretty evenly split for the majority of the primary. I'm glad Bernie will still be a prominent Senator, but that's it.

If there's ever a primary we need to put behind us it's this one.

 

[tearsintherain]

afaik there were two contentious things Comey did, correct?

1. during the initial senate hearings into Hillary's email server in July 2016, Comey testified. Everyone agrees thats ok so far, right? He had to testify. At the end of the testimony he said some negative things about Hillary, its argued that was unprecedented and unnecessary and had a negative impact on Clinton. I think most people would agree that this was weird and partisan.

2. On Oct 28th, 10 days before the election, Comey suddenly notified Congress (publicly) that they found Clinton emails on Weiner's laptop and need to review them. Nothing to indicate new bad stuff, just that they found more stuff. A few days later he announced the emails were all duplicates of stuff previously found.

So I assume #2 is the contentious point. What should have Comey done? Notified congress in private? Not told congress at all? Both seem like they could have backfired badly if the information leaked out ("FBI Director hides information from Congress/citizens to save Clinton!") so I am genuinely curious what people think should have happened.

Why isn't Clinton or her aide responsible for any of this? Why were these emails on Weiners laptop (his wife, Huma, is Clinton's top aide for those who don't know), why didn't anyone tell the FBI way back in April when the investigation started? Who leaked their existance to Weiner's laptop to the FBI a few weeks before the election? It seems like only two people would have known about it: Weiner or Huma.

 

[NoRéN]

For once, the gaf collective is correct then.

I'm sick of this party making excuses. Nothing should have prevented Clinton from winning... Nothing.

"Yay lets all parrot the one thing we read AFTER it was all said and done to sound smart."

This whole "blame Clinton and the dems" really is the new way for liberals and progressives to pat themselves on the back.

"Look at how well I handle losing."

 

[Neoweee]

Stop fighting about the god damn 2016 democratic primary in every fucking thread related to Clinton, Bernie and Trump. Both Hillary and Bernie lost, they're both losers who'll never be president.

The primary is kind of relevant again, because it is overwhelmingly obvious that it was the conspiracy-minded Bernie supporters that got targeted by the Russian leaks.

afaik there were two contentious things Comey did, correct?

1. during the initial senate hearings into Hillary's email server in July 2016, Comey testified. Everyone agrees thats ok so far, right? He had to testify. At the end of the testimony he said some negative things about Hillary, its argued that was unprecedented and unnecessary and had a negative impact on Clinton. I think most people would agree that this was weird and partisan.

2. On Oct 28th, 10 days before the election, Comey suddenly notified Congress (publicly) that they found Clinton emails on Weiner's laptop and need to review them. Nothing to indicate new bad stuff, just that they found more stuff. A few days later he announced the emails were all duplicates of stuff previously found.

So I assume #2 is the contentious point. What should have Comey done? Notified congress in private? Not told congress at all? Both seem like they could have backfired badly if the information leaked out ("FBI Director hides information from Congress/citizens to save Clinton!") so I am genuinely curious what people think should have happened.

Why isn't Clinton or her aide responsible for any of this? Why were these emails on Weiners laptop (his wife, Huma, is Clinton's top aide for those who don't know), why didn't anyone tell the FBI way back in April when the investigation started? Who leaked their existance to Weiner's laptop to the FBI a few weeks before the election? It seems like only two people would have known about it: Weiner or Huma.

#2. Basically, Huma forgot that she had used one of her husband's laptops to check her emails in the distant past, so it wasn't collected as evidence back then or inspected. The FBI was investigating Weiner's multiple later indiscretions, and came across the emails. That much is absolutely known.

It also seems very likely that the New York FBI branch leaked the info to Guiliani, which let the Trump campaign strategize around it.

 

[IamDodongo]

afaik there were two contentious things Comey did, correct?

1. during the initial senate hearings into Hillary's email server in July 2016, Comey testified. Everyone agrees thats ok so far, right? He had to testify. At the end of the testimony he said some negative things about Hillary, its argued that was unprecedented and unnecessary and had a negative impact on Clinton. I think most people would agree that this was weird and partisan.

2. On Oct 28th, 10 days before the election, Comey suddenly notified Congress (publicly) that they found Clinton emails on Weiner's laptop and need to review them. Nothing to indicate new bad stuff, just that they found more stuff. A few days later he announced the emails were all duplicates of stuff previously found.

#2 seems especially partisan in light of this:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/31/fbis-comey-opposed-naming-russians-citing-election-timing-source.html

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

People also forget that Bernie's campaign was not completely infallible as the campaign did somehow acquire the Clinton campaign's donor list with sensitive information.

But we are well past the primary and the general to reinvent this wheel. Again.

Bernie running again will have to address his issues with minorities. I've already moved onto Warren unless he wants to effectively campaign to the entire Democratic coalition.

To support Bernie and complain about Clinton's campaign takes a special amount of denial. Bernie wasn't going to win based on campaign strategy, if his history was evidence. He would win because America is sexist as fuck. This dude ran for the Democratic nomination and ignored the South and black people.

 

[Vixdean]

afaik there were two contentious things Comey did, correct?

1. during the initial senate hearings into Hillary's email server in July 2016, Comey testified. Everyone agrees thats ok so far, right? He had to testify. At the end of the testimony he said some negative things about Hillary, its argued that was unprecedented and unnecessary and had a negative impact on Clinton. I think most people would agree that this was weird and partisan.

2. On Oct 28th, 10 days before the election, Comey suddenly notified Congress (publicly) that they found Clinton emails on Weiner's laptop and need to review them. Nothing to indicate new bad stuff, just that they found more stuff. A few days later he announced the emails were all duplicates of stuff previously found.

So I assume #2 is the contentious point. What should have Comey done? Notified congress in private? Not told congress at all? Both seem like they could have backfired badly if the information leaked out ("FBI Director hides information from Congress/citizens to save Clinton!") so I am genuinely curious what people think should have happened.

Why isn't Clinton or her aide responsible for any of this? Why were these emails on Weiners laptop (his wife, Huma, is Clinton's top aide for those who don't know), why didn't anyone tell the FBI way back in April when the investigation started? Who leaked their existance to Weiner's laptop to the FBI a few weeks before the election? It seems like only two people would have known about it: Weiner or Huma.

Also his statements to the press when announcing the conclusion of the investigation into her emails and recommendation not to indict were also unprecedented. In fact, the most inflammatory thing to come out of the entire investigation was his calling her use of email "extremely careless", despite there not being a single shred of evidence supporting that statement.

 

[Maxim726X]

"Yay lets all parrot the one thing we read AFTER it was all said and done to sound smart."

This whole "blame Clinton and the dems" really is the new way for liberals and progressives to pat themselves on the back.

"Look at how well I handle losing."

Infinitely better than 'It's not my fault I lost!! It's them/him/her/aliens!'

 

[Crayon]

The bernie bros should be heard even if it's a repetitive braying sometimes. The D party has to learn from that new dealer message and they are in danger of not hearing it. I'm not into shouting down fervent bernie supporters in general for this reason. It gets brought up in inappropriate topics a lot but I hear them loud and clear and it's understandable that they're mad.

My personal hope is for the d party to become one where bernie bros feel welcome and represented.

 

[Blader]

afaik there were two contentious things Comey did, correct?

1. during the initial senate hearings into Hillary's email server in July 2016, Comey testified. Everyone agrees thats ok so far, right? He had to testify. At the end of the testimony he said some negative things about Hillary, its argued that was unprecedented and unnecessary and had a negative impact on Clinton. I think most people would agree that this was weird and partisan.

No, that's highly unusual and transparently partisan. That is not what the FBI normally does at the close of an investigation and Comey himself said as much a number of times.

Why isn't Clinton or her aide responsible for any of this? Why were these emails on Weiners laptop (his wife, Huma, is Clinton's top aide for those who don't know), why didn't anyone tell the FBI way back in April when the investigation started? Who leaked their existance to Weiner's laptop to the FBI a few weeks before the election? It seems like only two people would have known about it: Weiner or Huma.

Weiner's laptop wasn't leaked to the FBI, the FBI was already investigating Weiner for sexting with a 15-year-old and came across Hillary emails on his laptop as part of that investigation.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

You know there is such a thing as criticizing the Clinton campaign, shortcomings of the Democratic party, and also acknowledging that she likely would have won by a small margin had Comey not pulled that little stunt, all at the same time.

Things aren't binary. Shocking revelation, I know.

But yeah keep on going on with the whole "Dems won't take the loss and fix their stuff and just want to shift blame" rants in every thread regarding the election to downplay serious shit that's been going down lately. I'm sure you guys will convince someone eventually.

 

[guek]

We point it out often. But its ignored when the next thread pops up, and the same things are said again.

Here's the thing though - increasing the number of votes per party is completely normal. You cannot keep clinging to rising pop vote turnout for candidates like it's something new. It's not. The winner of the presidential election historically gets more votes than the previous loser of that party as well as previous winners. Obama got more votes than Kerry, Gore, and Bill. Bush got more votes than Dole, H.W., and Reagan before him (Bush got more votes his first term than Reagan's first, more votes in his second term than in Reagan's second, but his less votes his first term than Reagan's second). Hillary coming short of Obama is actually significant because most winners of the presidency outpace their successful predecessors in total number of received votes in the popular. Percentage of eligible voters was the lowest since 1996.

 

[Peccavi]

afaik there were two contentious things Comey did, correct?

1. during the initial senate hearings into Hillary's email server in July 2016, Comey testified. Everyone agrees thats ok so far, right? He had to testify. At the end of the testimony he said some negative things about Hillary, its argued that was unprecedented and unnecessary and had a negative impact on Clinton. I think most people would agree that this was weird and partisan.

2. On Oct 28th, 10 days before the election, Comey suddenly notified Congress (publicly) that they found Clinton emails on Weiner's laptop and need to review them. Nothing to indicate new bad stuff, just that they found more stuff. A few days later he announced the emails were all duplicates of stuff previously found.

So I assume #2 is the contentious point. What should have Comey done? Notified congress in private? Not told congress at all? Both seem like they could have backfired badly if the information leaked out ("FBI Director hides information from Congress/citizens to save Clinton!") so I am genuinely curious what people think should have happened.

Why isn't Clinton or her aide responsible for any of this? Why were these emails on Weiners laptop (his wife, Huma, is Clinton's top aide for those who don't know), why didn't anyone tell the FBI way back in April when the investigation started? Who leaked their existance to Weiner's laptop to the FBI a few weeks before the election? It seems like only two people would have known about it: Weiner or Huma.

Sending the letter to Congress without having any clue what was in the emails was probably a violation of the Hatch Act (per W's ethics lawyer) and if so Comey should lose his job at minimum.

Odds of an investigation of Comey's potential ethics violation when Trump becomes President? Not great.

 

[Suikoguy]

The bernie bros should be heard even if it's a repetitive braying sometimes. The D party has to learn from that new dealer message and they are in danger of not hearing it. I'm not into shouting down fervent bernie supporters in general for this reason. It gets brought up in inappropriate topics a lot but I hear them loud and clear and it's understandable that they're mad.

My personal hope is for the d party to become one where bernie bros feel welcome and represented.

1.) It's not understandable they are mad. They lost by millions of votes in the primary. They got a fair shake at it and they lost.
2.) They were fairly represented at the DNC Platform negotiations.

The Primary That Will Never End™ brought to you by BernieBros, for when you really really really hate Hillary Clinton.

 

[LosDaddie]

The Clinton wing of the Democrat party seems to want to blame the election loss almost exclusively on James Comey and the Wikileaks DNC hack, so they can avoid doing any introspection. I notice Bernie Sanders and his people arent hollering about either issue at all.
If thats the narrative they want to swallow (we lost the election because of the Russians and the FBI) get ready for 8 years of Trump.

Well said. The very same DNC and Senate leadership that led to their party holding no power.

And let's not forget the laziness Abuela displayed by her campaign/rally schedule.

 

[Neoweee]

1.) It's not understandable they are mad. They lost by millions of votes in the primary. They got a fair shake at it and they lost.
2.) They were fairly represented at the DNC Platform negotiations.

The Primary That Will Never End™ brought to you by BernieBros, for when you really really really hate Hillary Clinton.

Which was ultimately the point of Russia's leaks. Leak a series of out-of-context emails from multiple sources meant to agitate the wound over, and over, and over, and over, and over, to keep the wound from ever healing, to prevent Democrats from rallying behind their candidate.

Mission Accomplished! It's a hell of a strategy, in hindsight.

The Clinton wing of the Democrat party seems to want to blame the election loss almost exclusively on James Comey and the Wikileaks DNC hack, so they can avoid doing any introspection. I notice Bernie Sanders and his people arent hollering about either issue at all.
If thats the narrative they want to swallow (we lost the election because of the Russians and the FBI) get ready for 8 years of Trump.

Because that would involve acknowledging that they got hopelessly played by foreign actors. That would be super depressing, wouldn't it?

I donated to Bernie in the primaries, but I moved and fought against his conspiracy-minded BS.

 

[EatinOlives]

The bernie bros should be heard even if it's a repetitive braying sometimes. The D party has to learn from that new dealer message and they are in danger of not hearing it. I'm not into shouting down fervent bernie supporters in general for this reason. It gets brought up in inappropriate topics a lot but I hear them loud and clear and it's understandable that they're mad.

My personal hope is for the d party to become one where bernie bros feel welcome and represented.

It's fine if they don't believe their voices have been heard appropriately. They can still continue to bring it up in conversations provided they do so where it's appropriate, and doing it in an intellectually honest matter. None of this "well she STOLE the primary so she got what's coming to her!!" nonsense.

What's truly worrisome from what I'm seeing from some (not all) Bernie supporters is that they completely refuse to acknowledge the FBI meddling in the election. Not even in a passing "well yeah the FBI meddling is obviously bad but..." sort of way, not even that small bone is thrown in. No, instead what gets brought up is more deflections, more plugging of ears, more accusations that we're "making excuses for Hillary", even if the posts they're quoting contain sentences like "of course Hillary's not a perfect candidate, but...". I know people in real life who do this. They don't devote one second of thought to the fucked up shit, all they care about is if X or Y information can be used to trash Hillary some more. I had one friend constantly link WikiLeaks articles on FB, imploring people to "do their own research". For him, the general election was "FUCK HILLARY!!! .........oh yeah and that other guy sucks too". Just completely ignoring the fact that he was swallowing Russian-backed propaganda wholesale. Nobody's saying he was obligated to like Hillary, but the extent to which he and people like him went to ensure that the conversation was 100% and always strictly centered around what terrible a person Hillary is was truly appalling.

This is dangerous, and not only is it myopic, it speaks volumes for the kind of thing that can happen in the future. If we don't at least, at the very least recognize that external countries and federal bodies of government like the FBI meddling in elections is abhorrent and should be investigated to its fullest extent, the political climate in this country is far worse than anyone thinks.

And this is all coming from someone who voted for Bernie in the primaries.

 

[StormKing]

Well said. The very same DNC and Senate leadership that led to their party holding no power.

And let's not forget the laziness Abuela displayed by her campaign/rally schedule.

It's all Comey and the Russian's fault. Clinton did nothing wrong seems to be the narrative. The refusal to accept that Clinton was simply a terrible candidate will just lead to more failure in the future.

 

[fredrancour]

It's all Comey and the Russian's fault. Clinton did nothing wrong seems to be the narrative. The refusal to accept that Clinton was simply a terrible candidate will just lead to more failure in the future.

there has been plenty of discussion of how clinton's campaigning strategies basically neglected massive areas entirely. there's been reports that plenty of people warned the campaign it was fucking up while the campaign was still ongoing and went unheeded. There were still other factors at work in the campaign, and when discussing them, it's ok to just discuss them without equivocating by making time for shoutouts to every other factor.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

It's all Comey and the Russian's fault. Clinton did nothing wrong seems to be the narrative. The refusal to accept that Clinton was simply a terrible candidate will just lead to more failure in the future.

Have you read any of the posts in this thread? ffs

 

[Nafai1123]

It's all Comey and the Russian's fault. Clinton did nothing wrong seems to be the narrative. The refusal to accept that Clinton was simply a terrible candidate will just lead to more failure in the future.

Or people are discussing the issue in the OP without attempting to veer the conversation away from the other factors that people acknowledge played a part.

 

[Xe4]

It's all Comey and the Russian's fault. Clinton did nothing wrong seems to be the narrative. The refusal to accept that Clinton was simply a terrible candidate will just lead to more failure in the future.

No one is saying this. Seriously, link me to one post in this thread that says Clinton has no blame in her loss. Of course she does carry part of the blame (as Kerry and Gore, and every looser candidate does), but this isn't what the thread is about. So Please stop with this strawman you're attacking, and focus on the topic of this thread, which is Comey's actions at the FBI.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Maybe the democrats should have run someone who hasn't been deeply disliked and distrusted by a ton of people ever since she's been in the public spotlight.

 

[minor effort]

It's all Comey and the Russian's fault. Clinton did nothing wrong seems to be the narrative. The refusal to accept that Clinton was simply a terrible candidate will just lead to more failure in the future.

This is untrue in-general and untrue within the confines of this thread.

 

[TheLaughingStock]

Maybe if Clinton wasn't a horrible candidate starting in 2016 this wouldn't have affected her numbers.

/Gaf

Clinton did worse than expected vs. Obama, Bernie, and Donald Trump. She wasn't a terrible candidate starting in 2016.

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

there has been plenty of discussion of how clinton's campaigning strategies basically neglected massive areas entirely. there's been reports that plenty of people warned the campaign it was fucking up while the campaign was still ongoing and went unheeded. There were still other factors at work in the campaign, and when discussing them, it's ok to just discuss them without equivocating by making time for shoutouts to every other factor.

Have you read any of the posts in this thread? ffs

GAF is not a hivemind. Just as there are people who brush aside external factors, there are people who point the finger at everyone but Hillary. The existence of one does not exclude the existence of the other.

 

[Suikoguy]

Maybe the democrats should have run someone who hasn't been deeply disliked and distrusted by a ton of people ever since she's been in the public spotlight.

I know right, look at how disliked she was her entire public life!

oh.. wait

 

[Nafai1123]

GAF is not a hivemind. Just as there are people who brush aside external factors, there are people who point the finger at everyone but Hillary. The existence of one does not exclude the existence of the other.

If you can find a post in here in which someone points the finger at everyone but Hillary you would have a point. I'm seeing plenty of posts in here brushing aside every factor except the fact that she was a "terrible candidate."

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

GAF is not a hivemind. Just as there are people who brush aside external factors, there are people who point the finger at everyone but Hillary. The existence of one does not exclude the existence of the other.

I'm well aware that GAF isn't a hivemind, but it's getting obnoxious to see any conversation about Comey or Russian interference be met with driveby accusations of refusal to acknowledge Hillary's faults. Do I need to add a disclaimer in highlight tags to every post I make about this topic?

I realize that people are terrified about the results on Nov.8 (I am too, believe me) but this cattiness is getting out of fucking control.

 

[StormKing]

Comey and the Russsians helped Donald Trump win the Presidency. That's true. However, this would not have been possible if Clinton did not use a private email server and the DNC did not favor Clinton in the primaries (against their charter).

Thus, it becomes a debate between who is more to blame, Comey and the Russians or Clinton and the DNC. From my perspective, Comey and the Russians exposed the wrongdoings of the Clinton and the DNC. Thus, I blame Clinton and the DNC more than I blame Comey and the Russians. I hope in the next election, we will get a candidate that does not use a private email server while in government and that the DNC remains neutral in the primary process.

 

[Suikoguy]

Comey and the Russsians helped Donald Trump win the Presidency. That's true. However, this would not have been possible if Clinton did not use a private email server and the DNC did not favor Clinton in the primaries (against their charter).

Thus, it becomes a debate between who is more to blame, Comey and the Russians or Clinton and the DNC. From my perspective, Comey and the Russians exposed the wrongdoings of the Clinton and the DNC. Thus, I blame Clinton and the DNC more than I blame Comey and the Russians. I hope in the next election, we will get a candidate that does not use a private email server while in government and that the DNC remains neutral in the primary process.

What wrongdoing?

Are you that hurt over leaking two very obvious debate questions? I'm sure those two questions effected millions of votes...

This is one of the things that Russia wanted to happen, and you fell for it, congrats I guess?

 

[guek]

I'm well aware that GAF isn't a hivemind, but it's getting obnoxious to see any conversation about Comey or Russian interference be met with driveby accusations of refusal to acknowledge Hillary's faults. Do I need to add a disclaimer in highlight tags to every post I make about this topic?

I realize that people are terrified about the results on Nov.8 (I am too, believe) but this cattiness is getting out of fucking control.

But this thread is about Reid placing the blame for the loss squarely on Comey. While I'm of the opinion that Comey may have tipped the scales, any accusation of a singular reason for Clinton losing is going to be met with strong resistance. Reid, God bless him, is as partisan as they come and has been known to deliberately bend the truth without a second thought if it's in the Democratic party's best interest.

 

[The Technomancer]

Comey and the Russsians helped Donald Trump win the Presidency. That's true. However, this would not have been possible if Clinton did not use a private email server and the DNC did not favor Clinton in the primaries (against their charter).

Thus, it becomes a debate between who is more to blame, Comey and the Russians or Clinton and the DNC. From my perspective, Comey and the Russians exposed the wrongdoings of the Clinton and the DNC. Thus, I blame Clinton and the DNC more than I blame Comey and the Russians. I hope in the next election, we will get a candidate that does not use a private email server while in government and that the DNC remains neutral in the primary process.

Yeah maybe next time we can get a candidate who used his political status to aid a university his wife was on the board for receive money it shouldn't have for an ill advised and wasteful program. I'm sure that would have gone over so much better than Clinton's fucking email server

This is seriously the closest I have ever come to putting someone on ignore

 

[Suikoguy]

Yeah maybe next time we can get a candidate who used his political status to aid a university his wife was on the board for receive money it shouldn't have for an ill advised and wasteful program. I'm sure that would have gone over so much better than Clinton's fucking email server

This is seriously the closest I have ever come to putting someone on ignore

Not enjoying The Primary That Will Never End™?

I can't get over how hurt people are over two leaked debate questions by Donna.
It's the only actions the DNC took, and it's not even the DNC that took the action.

Edit: Of course, even if Donna did not leak two super obvious questions, BernieBros would latch onto something else, no matter how innocuous or inconsequential and cry from the rooftops.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I know right, look at how disliked she was her entire public life!

oh.. wait

The fact that her favorability ratings were on that steep of a downturn when the presidential campaign started should have been a cause for concern. That Trump's were just as bad or worse doesn't negate the fact that she was an unlikable candidate to begin with.

 

[BlueTsunami]

The fact that her favorability ratings were on that steep of a downturn when the presidential campaign started should have been a cause for concern. That Trump's were just as bad or worse doesn't negate the fact that she was an unlikable candidate to begin with.

But it was her time! The whole primary election was a farce when everyone held the door open for Abuela. Was never about electing the right candidate.

 

[Suikoguy]

But it was her time! The whole primary election was a farce when everyone held the door open for Abuela.

Just like it was in 2008? ... oh

 

[PanicFreak]

#2 seems especially partisan in light of this:

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/31/fbis-comey-opposed-naming-russians-citing-election-timing-source.html

Comey is an ass.

 

[The Technomancer]

Just like it was in 2008? ... oh

You just don't understand the magic of Bernie man, we'd have all the free college and healthcare reform we wanted right now if the mean ol DNC hadn't just fought him tooth and nail to anoint their Empress

 

[guek]

Yeah maybe next time we can get a candidate who used his political status to aid a university his wife was on the board for receive money it shouldn't have for an ill advised and wasteful program. I'm sure that would have gone over so much better than Clinton's fucking email server

This is seriously the closest I have ever come to putting someone on ignore

Not enjoying The Primary That Will Never End™?

I can't get over how hurt people are over two leaked debate questions by Donna.
It's the only actions the DNC took, and it's not even the DNC that took the action.

The person you two are responding to didn't even bring up Bernie or the primary. If you want people to stop being bitter, maybe you two should do the same. Maybe recognize how you're contributing to the infighting.

 

[Carpe Libertatem]

Comey and the Russsians helped Donald Trump win the Presidency. That's true. However, this would not have been possible if Clinton did not use a private email server and the DNC did not favor Clinton in the primaries (against their charter).

Thus, it becomes a debate between who is more to blame, Comey and the Russians or Clinton and the DNC. From my perspective, Comey and the Russians exposed the wrongdoings of the Clinton and the DNC. Thus, I blame Clinton and the DNC more than I blame Comey and the Russians. I hope in the next election, we will get a candidate that does not use a private email server while in government and that the DNC remains neutral in the primary process.

The person you two are responding to didn't even bring up Bernie or the primary. If you want people to stop being bitter, maybe you two should do the same. Maybe recognize how you're contributing to the infighting.

.

 

[Suikoguy]

Nevermind, Carpe Libertatem already did it.

guek showing he can't read again.

 

[The Technomancer]

The person you two are responding to didn't even bring up Bernie or the primary. If you want people to stop being bitter, maybe you two should do the same. Maybe recognize how you're contributing to the infighting.

and the DNC did not favor Clinton in the primaries (against their charter).

this line is literally only trotted out by Bernie fans angry because they feel they got "cheated" because their guy lost fair and square

 

[KO Traveling Hobo]

If you can find a post in here in which someone points the finger at everyone but Hillary you would have a point. I'm seeing plenty of posts in here brushing aside every factor except the fact that she was a "terrible candidate."

How about the OP where Reid puts all the blame on Hillary?

And the conversation has been going for much longer than this single thread.

I'm well aware that GAF isn't a hivemind, but it's getting obnoxious to see any conversation about Comey or Russian interference be met with driveby accusations of refusal to acknowledge Hillary's faults. Do I need to add a disclaimer in highlight tags to every post I make about this topic?

I realize that people are terrified about the results on Nov.8 (I am too, believe me) but this cattiness is getting out of fucking control.

I agree that people need to stop immediately digging into Hillary instead of acknowledging these external factors - Russia violating our election process is huge - but there is absolutely a narrative going around that downplays or ignores Clinton's own failures.

 

[guek]

this line is literally only trotted out by Bernie fans angry because they feel they got "cheated" because their guy lost fair and square

So the type of response you typed out helps how? Why is it that any insinuation that the DNC was not partial as they should have been is met with such vitriol? While the extent of the preference and how it impacted the race is debatable, the favoritism really isn't.

Yes, Bernie lost in convincing fashion. But so did Clinton (yes, in spite of winning the popular). People being asshats to each other isn't going to change that. Some of you guys, Suikoguy in particular, are some of the most toxic posters on this board when it comes to politics.

 

[Suikoguy]

So, we just going to ignore how you so utterly failed at reading?

"The person you two are responding to didn't even bring up Bernie or the primary"

"DNC did not favor Clinton in the primaries (against their charter)."

 

[guek]

So, we just going to ignore how you so utterly failed at reading?

Yes, I missed that bit. Correct me and I will recognize my failing. So what? That doesn't change my point. You're as bitter as the Bernie diehards you love to attack.

 

[The Technomancer]

So the type of response you typed out helps how? Why is it that any insinuation that the DNC was not partial as they should have been is met with such vitriol? While the extent of the preference and how it impacted the race is debatable, the favoritism really isn't.

Yes, Bernie lost in convincing fashion. But so did Clinton (yes, in spite of winning the popular). People being asshats to each other isn't going to change that. Some of you guys, Suikoguy in particular, are some of the most toxic posters on this board when it comes to politics.

I'm sorry, I'm a bit fucking testy with people who just somehow can't seem to move past nearly eight months ago how their object of obsession lost his primary bid. I don't want to help, I want them to shut the fuck up, quite frankly, and let the adults in the room discuss what to do about our actual predicament instead of filling every single election thread with counterfactuals about how rigged the whole thing was against their awesome socialism jesus and how scandal free his campaign would have been and how high his popularity would have skyrocketed if not for mean ol Hillary and that darn DNC

 

[Suikoguy]

Yes, I missed that bit. Correct me and I will recognize my failing. So what? That doesn't change my point. You're as bitter as the Bernie diehards you love to attack.

You were corrected by 3 posters, and it took me calling you out a second time to get you to recognize it.

Oh, and you deflected while doing it!

 

[Nafai1123]

But it was her time! The whole primary election was a farce when everyone held the door open for Abuela. Was never about electing the right candidate.

So blame the primary voters who voted for her overwhelmingly more than Bernie? The primary became a farce when Bernie's campaign continued to fight and spread vitriol after they knew it was already over, enraging these so-called Bernie-bros so much that they continue to place the blame for Bernie's loss in the primary on the DNC, and continue to place the blame for losing the election on Hillary.

Anything to ignore the fact that they are also to blame, for continuing to spread such vitriol, for using that vitriol as justification for not voting, or voting for someone else, and then continuing to use any other justification for why we lost, but only as long as it's Hillary or her campaigns fault. Not Bernie, not Bernie supporters, not Russia or their hacks, and not Comey, because that would go against their belief structure that has become so ingrained that they are incapable of seeing the gross irony of the situation and the fact that they have become just as bad as Trump supporters in believing and spreading faux news and letting Russia inform their narrative. They believe anything as long as it places the blame on someone else's shoulders and not their own.

The fact is the results of this election are based on everything, not just one thing. To say otherwise is to be intellectually dishonest.