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[AlexxKidd]

NDP rankings this month (prediction):

NBA2K
Spiderman
Forza Horizon 4
Assassins Creed
Madden
Fifa
Tomb Raider
GTA V

Thats a bad prediction. Red Dead Redemption 2 will top this month, even with the late release.

And i ask again can OP provide the link to his source for those numbers? Its possible that they are accurate, but the NPD's report does not drop until Tuesday.

 

[cryptoadam]

What happend with PS4? Was it Spiderman? Thats pretty huge and outselling both combined is killer.

MS probably can't wait for this gen to end, XBOX one has to be seen as a failure on their part. They will pearl clutch their live memberships and gamepass Sony has had their number and now Nintendo as well.

If you want AAA HD style gaming you get a PS4. If you want portable Nintendo gaming you get a Switch. MS is being left out in the cold.

 

[prinz_valium]

Thats a bad prediction. Red Dead Redemption 2 will top this month, even with the late release.

And i ask again can OP provide the link to his source for those numbers? Its possible that they are accurate, but the NPD's report does not drop until Tuesday.

Read Dead Redemption didn't release in September, lol


This is the source:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/se...sday-october-16th.73103/page-11#post-13963822

 

[LittleBusters]

Wow, XBox is dying.

 

[flashfire926]

Wow, XBox is dying.

Yeah, only a matter of time until they go third party.

Just because it was down for 1 month yoy (and that by 1k too) doesn't mean it's dying. You ignored the last 8 months, were Xbox was up yoy by a good margin.

If we look at the timeframe of Janruary to September, 9 months, Xbox is up 32% yoy on the whole.

 

[Clear]

If we look at the timeframe of Janruary to September, 9 months, Xbox is up 32% yoy on the whole.

Is that by units or revenue?

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

I am reading Xbox is doomed in a month where it big releases started THIS month, and the ignoring of the fact Xbox has been up YOY most of this year.

If we see these numbers and ratios this month and NOV then you can say Xbox is "doomed"

 

[AlexxKidd]

Yeah, only a matter of time until they go third party.

Just because it was down for 1 month yoy (and that by 1k too) doesn't mean it's dying. You ignored the last 8 months, were Xbox was up yoy by a good margin.

If we look at the timeframe of Janruary to September, 9 months, Xbox is up 32% yoy on the whole.

I am reading Xbox is doomed in a month where it big releases started THIS month, and the ignoring of the fact Xbox has been up YOY most of this year.

If we see these numbers and ratios this month and NOV then you can say Xbox is "doomed"

Anyone saying "Xbox is doomed" is clearly fucking with yall, dont take it so seriously.

 

[flashfire926]

Is that by units or revenue?

By units.
PS4: ~2708K (+9%)
NSW: ~2245K (-3%)
XB1: ~1868K (+32%)

 

[Danjin44]

Xbox might not selling as much as PS4 but still doing decent numbers, so I would say it far from doom. I think MS should really decide if Xbox wants to be PC or a console because its currently trying to be both and its really not working out for them.

 

[Blood Borne]

If Xbox is having abysmal sales such as this in its biggest market, I shudder to think its sales in other countries. It wouldn't be improbable if Xbox total sales hasn't exceeded 40m.

 

[Freedom Gate Co.]

If Xbox is having abysmal sales such as this in its biggest market, I shudder to think its sales in other countries. It wouldn't be improbable if Xbox total sales hasn't exceeded 40m.

For one month. Oh no. Guess that time the PS4 had it's lowest month in 7 countries it died. Oh wait we are still talking about it.

 

[Nikana]

Xbox might not selling as much as PS4 but still doing decent numbers, so I would say it far from doom. I think MS should really decide if Xbox wants to be PC or a console because its currently trying to be both and its really not working out for them.

It's not working against them.

 

[iconmaster]

Interesting, don't think we get the official September NPD release till next week.

Switch is NOT selling well. It is a brand new console competing with established success stories. The fact that it can't even compete with PS4 is laughable.

I don't understand this take. The Switch is a hit by almost anyone's standard.

Of course the PS4 has done extremely well, but I'm sure Nintendo is pleased as punch with their own sales.

 

[prinz_valium]

The reason why Xbox One was so weak in September:
Ps4 was very strong with a big exclusive.
Nice deals before and after this month.
FH4 released just at the end of the month.
New Xbox One Bundles do always start slow unlike Ps4 bundles with big and long preorders and day one sales.

Xbox One could easily have the biggest year ever in the US.
Just needs to be 20% up YoY for the full year.

 

[Danjin44]

Interesting, don't think we get the official September NPD release till next week.



I don't understand this take. The Switch is a hit by almost anyone's standard.

Of course the PS4 has done extremely well, but I'm sure Nintendo is pleased as punch with their own sales.

Dont worry about him. Killer751 kind of has personal hate against Nintendo for some weird reason.

 

[Killer751]

Interesting, don't think we get the official September NPD release till next week.



I don't understand this take. The Switch is a hit by almost anyone's standard.

Of course the PS4 has done extremely well, but I'm sure Nintendo is pleased as punch with their own sales.

And yet it has had no major releases all year long, is being vastly outsold by the PS4, and has nothing of note announced for 2019.

Switch is this generation's Wii. A flash in the pan success that everyone will have forgotten about by 2020.

 

[Danjin44]

And yet it has had no major releases all year long, is being vastly outsold by the PS4, and has nothing of note announced for 2019.

Switch is this generation's Wii. A flash in the pan success that everyone will have forgotten about by 2020.

It does have and I can list it for you but I'm guessing you won't give a fuck either way because you have your fuck up agenda against Nintendo. The amount spamming you did recently I don't think anybody can really take your opinion seriously but I think you yourself aware of that but I think you just want start up some pointless console war.

 

[Alexa88]

Would have loved if Dragon Quest xi charted in top 10...

 

[Panajev2001a]

Interesting, don't think we get the official September NPD release till next week.



I don't understand this take. The Switch is a hit by almost anyone's standard.

Of course the PS4 has done extremely well, but I'm sure Nintendo is pleased as punch with their own sales.

It is selling very well and it is a fun console to have, when I do not have to work in the train it is an amazing little thing to have (albeit not perfect, freaking badly designed kickstand, but is is another topic) and it delivered one of the best Super Mario games of all time playable on the go too.

Still, are you tracking its sales as well as the impact dwindling down 3DS sales (3DS HW sales, even in a strong territory for it like Japan, are constantly down YoY)? Switch needs to substitute both traditional home console and traditional handheld sales as it is replacing both.

 

[thelastword]

You need to keep the momentum going.

And it will, that's why there are lots of top AAA games up-coming for PS4, some of it's biggest too.….

Spider-Man is going to be a huge franchise for Sony.

It already is

Thats a bad prediction. Red Dead Redemption 2 will top this month, even with the late release.

And i ask again can OP provide the link to his source for those numbers? Its possible that they are accurate, but the NPD's report does not drop until Tuesday.

These are leaked numbers extrapolated from YOY percentages for this months NPD over last year September, it's as accurate as you going to get. NPD does not share it's numbers publicly anymore.... and this is being discussed everywhere on the internet btw......The YOY percentages is what allows many sales tally guys to keep updating their spreadsheets...

It does have and I can list it for you but I'm guessing you won't give a fuck either way because you have your fuck up agenda against Nintendo. The amount spamming you did recently I don't think anybody can really take your opinion seriously but I think you yourself aware of that but I think you just want start up some pointless console war.

Hey, what happened to the nicest guy on GAF

Also, based on some comments here in this thread.....The PRO attach rate is higher than 20% worth of sales month on month. That has been confirmed by an insider with an NPD sub....What was also confirmed is that PRO shortages has been affecting the ratio the last few months, where it's pretty common knowledge that PRO has had shortages since launch. At this point, PRO demand has skyrocketed, I guess people just want the best PS4 if they're jumping on board now or some just have some disposable income to upgrade at this point.....but Sony definitely needs to get that sorted, they're losing quite a few PRO purchases atm....I do hope they sort it out before the holidays (perhaps stockpiling for it) or they will be missing out on a barge of sales.....Sony can't make enough of these PRO's it seems...

 

[Redneckerz]

And yet it has had no major releases all year long, is being vastly outsold by the PS4, and has nothing of note announced for 2019.

Simple:

1. Super Mario Party/Smash Ultimate released this year alone.
2. It does not compete with PS4 due to it being a hybrid. Nintendo's Switch is effectively a mixture of the console and handheld markets
3. We can always hope for Metroid 4 and there are various Nintendo games coming (Yoshi standalone title, for instance)

Switch is this generation's Wii. A flash in the pan success that everyone will have forgotten about by 2020.

Right... that's why its still a memorable system, sold sales figures only beaten by PlayStation 1 and 2 (and Microsoft never achieved it, even with X360) and they also had DS/3DS lines, the latter which has a comparable featureset to Wii and all were also popular.

''Everyone will have forgotten by 2020'' - Glad this is coming from someone with knowledge on the industry. Oh wait. Console wars are outdated you know, there is this thing that people can actually enjoy the system they want to enjoy instead of having the need to defend themselves from people such as yourself who have little to no actual factual points to back up what you say.

This post of yours only should serve one gesture:

 

[demigod]

And it will, that's why there are lots of top AAA games up-coming for PS4, some of it's biggest too.….

I'm pretty sure he's talking about keeping the momentum going by releasing a new console and not prolonging the PS4 like the 360. MS thought they could ride the 360's success forever, boy were they mistaken.

 

[thelastword]

I'm pretty sure he's talking about keeping the momentum going by releasing a new console and not prolonging the PS4 like the 360. MS thought they could ride the 360's success forever, boy were they mistaken.

Yeah I got that...I'm just not sure Sony will release a console before so many of it's AAA games drop.....LOU2 is a 2019 game, maybe November or just before.....There's still Dreams, Tsushima, Death Stranding, Blue Point Project, Medievil, Concrete Genie etc.....There's no way Sony releases a PS5 before these games hit retail...which puts the PS5 at 2020...

MS is not going to release a console in 2019, the backlash over a recently released X might be too much and MS fans would be furious, because they'd have to go back to circa 2013 debates, since they'd have the weaker console again...….If MS comes out one year ahead of PS5, the difference in power won't be anywhere as small between XBONEX and PRO...that's for sure...

 

[HeresJohnny]

Yeah I got that...I'm just not sure Sony will release a console before so many of it's AAA games drop.....LOU2 is a 2019 game, maybe November or just before.....There's still Dreams, Tsushima, Death Stranding, Blue Point Project, Medievil, Concrete Genie etc.....There's no way Sony releases a PS5 before these games hit retail...which puts the PS5 at 2020...

MS is not going to release a console in 2019, the backlash over a recently released X might be too much and MS fans would be furious, because they'd have to go back to circa 2013 debates, since they'd have the weaker console again...….If MS comes out one year ahead of PS5, the difference in power won't be anywhere as small between XBONEX and PRO...that's for sure...

Sony released God of War II 4months after the PS3 dropped. They specifically cited the PS2s 100 million install base at that time being the reason. God of War II was a HUGE game, and looked nearly on par with most of the next gen stuff hitting on PS3 and 360.

As for Microsoft, they know the people who bought an X may make a little noise about new hardware releasing so soon but that's all it will be. The people buying that system are a niche crowd comprised of technophiles mostly that are used to getting shafted fro: a value perspective in exchange for having the newest hardware. Besides that, it's such a small group out of the total possible pie that pissing them off wouldn't matter much anyway when compared to the mass market.

 

[Codes 208]

Yeah I got that...I'm just not sure Sony will release a console before so many of it's AAA games drop.....LOU2 is a 2019 game, maybe November or just before.....There's still Dreams, Tsushima, Death Stranding, Blue Point Project, Medievil, Concrete Genie etc.....There's no way Sony releases a PS5 before these games hit retail...which puts the PS5 at 2020...

MS is not going to release a console in 2019, the backlash over a recently released X might be too much and MS fans would be furious, because they'd have to go back to circa 2013 debates, since they'd have the weaker console again...….If MS comes out one year ahead of PS5, the difference in power won't be anywhere as small between XBONEX and PRO...that's for sure...

Unless they become cross-gen which could happen.

Plus i distinctly recall the ps4 launching the same year as The Last of Us. Within, what? A four month gap?

 

[blackjon24]

Would have loved if Dragon Quest xi charted in top 10...

aha that's the only reason i clicked on this thread

ps4 murdering is business as usual

 

[DigitalScrap]

Would have loved if Dragon Quest xi charted in top 10...

Same. It deserves to sell better than FF XV IMO - the game is amazing. Hopefully it sells well enough that they know that there is an audience for it in the West so they continue to bring them.

 

[Brofist]

Don't let Sony's sales fool you into believing BC isn't a nice thing to have. It's obvious that it's not the most important thing to gamers, but who wouldn't love to have old PS games playable on the PS4.

 

[thelastword]

Sony released God of War II 4months after the PS3 dropped. They specifically cited the PS2s 100 million install base at that time being the reason. God of War II was a HUGE game, and looked nearly on par with most of the next gen stuff hitting on PS3 and 360.

As for Microsoft, they know the people who bought an X may make a little noise about new hardware releasing so soon but that's all it will be. The people buying that system are a niche crowd comprised of technophiles mostly that are used to getting shafted fro: a value perspective in exchange for having the newest hardware. Besides that, it's such a small group out of the total possible pie that pissing them off wouldn't matter much anyway when compared to the mass market.

Unless they become cross-gen which could happen.

Plus i distinctly recall the ps4 launching the same year as The Last of Us. Within, what? A four month gap?

Yeah, I get these points, but it's not a single AAA game pending on PS4, there are many......

Besides, Ryzen 3000 will need time to mature and so will Navi.....PS4 is looking likely to break records this year and in 2019 also, the games still look great and perform gangbusters at retail, especially first party software. If anyone has to make a move for 2019 it's MS. Sony is reaping all it can with it's first party software and installbase….and they're going to give us the best hardware they can in 2020....most probably with full BC for PS4......There's no need for them to move....

As a matter of fact, we heard earlier this year that's Sony's next gen software is already cooking. Guerilla, engines et al, that will take some time if you want quality launch games...On the flip, MS is not ready to launch in 2019 (even more so...), not just because of XBONEX, but because it's first party software is not close to being ready for a scarlett launch in 2019......There's just no need for Sony to release their console so soon, it's not about being complacent.....This is all about knowing how the stacks are falling....At this point, PS4 is not long in the tooth or struggling, it's biggest game is yet to drop......They know their lead and momentum, it's like Usain Bolt turning his head slightly back to see how close the rest of the runners are....I see no complacency tbh....I see Sony focused on maxing this gen and releasing a behemoth the next....

 

[FranXico]

Yeah I got that...I'm just not sure Sony will release a console before so many of it's AAA games drop.....LOU2 is a 2019 game, maybe November or just before.....There's still Dreams, Tsushima, Death Stranding, Blue Point Project, Medievil, Concrete Genie etc.....There's no way Sony releases a PS5 before these games hit retail...which puts the PS5 at 2020...

MS is not going to release a console in 2019, the backlash over a recently released X might be too much and MS fans would be furious, because they'd have to go back to circa 2013 debates, since they'd have the weaker console again...….If MS comes out one year ahead of PS5, the difference in power won't be anywhere as small between XBONEX and PRO...that's for sure...

Sony would (and should) release the PS5 in late 2019, no matter how many games are still to be released on PS4. If the PS5 is BC, those games will also be PS5 launch titles. Last gen release schedule does not affect the new generation.

As for the next Xbox, you are wrong to assume MS would hold off releasing it just because the 1X just came out. MS fans would not be pissed at that, if there's anything I've learned , is that MS fans are LOYAL, the most loyal fanbase of all. They would rush to buy a $500 next gen Xbox if it came out next week.

 

[demigod]

As for the next Xbox, you wrong to assume MS would hold off releasing it just because the 1X just came out. MS fans would not be pissed at that, if there's anything I've learned , is that MS fans are LOYAL, the most loyal fanbase of all. They would rush to buy a $500 next gen Xbox if it came out next week.

Yep, while mocking Sony fans about wanting the PS5 to come out next year.

 

[Clear]

By units.
PS4: ~2708K (+9%)
NSW: ~2245K (-3%)
XB1: ~1868K (+32%)

That is better than I expected, but then again so was the first year result of the One S, trouble is the uptick from the new hardware only lasted that long. I'd suspect the X will hold up better in the longer term although obviously the second the next gen arrives its going to be made obsolete instantly.

 

[prinz_valium]

Tomorrow is the day and the NPD ranking gets released.

Keep in mind those numbers include digital and are revenue based. So don't be shocked if Spiderman does not come out on top and other games you would not expect make the list.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Just because it was down for 1 month yoy (and that by 1k too) doesn't mean it's dying. You ignored the last 8 months, were Xbox was up yoy by a good margin.

If we look at the timeframe of Janruary to September, 9 months, Xbox is up 32% yoy on the whole.

Well, just because last year was bad in US. Not hard to beat last year low numbers with constant deals on monthly basis. I think September is the first time this year in US where X1 didn't have any price deal. And of course, it will be down because of that. Thanks to Microsoft, they create a perception how X1 has a constant price deals.

 

[Calibos]

The power of Marvel and Spiderman is evident here. There is no other notable reason why the PS4 would sell this much in September. Good job Sony. Exclusives like this do indeed sell consoles.

 

[flashfire926]

Well, just because last year was bad in US. Not hard to beat last year low numbers with constant deals on monthly basis. I think September is the first time this year in US where X1 didn't have any price deal. And of course, it will be down because of that. Thanks to Microsoft, they create a perception how X1 has a constant price deals.

Last year was the launch of destiny 2, and xbox has no such big game launch this september, so thats another reason.

 

[it_wasn't_me]

Last year was the launch of destiny 2, and xbox has no such big game launch this september, so thats another reason.

It didn't? You sound like Destiny 2 was a PS4 exclusive. And also you sound like X1 didn't have any big 3rd party game till September.

 

[Vawn]

I'm glad gamers are rewarding the console manufacturer that is releasing quality software. Hopefully, PS4's success will cause Xbox to come closer to matching them in quality exclusives next generation.

 

[leo-j]

I disagree with the whole sony not being affected by a PS5.

The ps3 was $599, vs a $99 PS2..... of course people were going to buy a ps2 over a 600 dollar console. I suspect PS5 would launch at 399, with a 199 ps4..... it'll sell but if the PS5 is BC, itm ay completely end PS4 sales, PS4 completed ended the ps3 era when it launched.

 

[-MD-]

Bc is a plus but in reality who buys new consoles to play old games?

I've been wanting to buy an Xbox for years just to play old Rare games, I can't justify the price though.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Sony would (and should) release the PS5 in late 2019, no matter how many games are still to be released on PS4. If the PS5 is BC, those games will also be PS5 launch titles. Last gen release schedule does not affect the new generation.

As for the next Xbox, you are wrong to assume MS would hold off releasing it just because the 1X just came out. MS fans would not be pissed at that, if there's anything I've learned , is that MS fans are LOYAL, the most loyal fanbase of all. They would rush to buy a $500 next gen Xbox if it came out next week.

The most loyal? I guess that's why the Xbox One got its ass kicked from the start. You make about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. Sony has proven time and again that it doesn't matter how terrible your launch is or at what price, it will still sell well. Just look at the PS3. You want loyalty, ask anyone here what system they will buy next generation at launch without even knowing the price or what games will be released.

 

[Moneal]

I disagree with the whole sony not being affected by a PS5.

The ps3 was $599, vs a $99 PS2..... of course people were going to buy a ps2 over a 600 dollar console. I suspect PS5 would launch at 399, with a 199 ps4..... it'll sell but if the PS5 is BC, itm ay completely end PS4 sales, PS4 completed ended the ps3 era when it launched.

ps3 wasn't competing with ps2 when ps3 released. totally different parts of the market. the vast majority of the people getting ps4s this year, or next year, or what ever year ps5 releases, aren't going to be the early adopters of ps5. ps5 early adopters are people that got their ps4 or ps4 pro during launch year. people buying consoles at 99 or 199 just aren't the same market as people paying launch prices.

 

[FranXico]

The most loyal? I guess that's why the Xbox One got its ass kicked from the start. You make about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. Sony has proven time and again that it doesn't matter how terrible your launch is or at what price, it will still sell well. Just look at the PS3. You want loyalty, ask anyone here what system they will buy next generation at launch without even knowing the price or what games will be released.

Casuals always make the most sales, and those people only care about two things: do the games look nice and is it cheap? That's it.

I don't think the PS3 is a good example of brand loyalty. Last gen, the PS3 totally had its ass kicked in the beginning because it cost too much. The recovery only came with the revisions that lowered the price. Only then did the casual crowd start looking at it.

 

[RPS37]

Xbox needs games.

 

[Panajev2001a]

The most loyal? I guess that's why the Xbox One got its ass kicked from the start. You make about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. Sony has proven time and again that it doesn't matter how terrible your launch is or at what price, it will still sell well. Just look at the PS3. You want loyalty, ask anyone here what system they will buy next generation at launch without even knowing the price or what games will be released.

PS3's first year and a half is either seen as failure (just go back to this forum in those days) or success despite the console sucking thanks to crazy fanboys depending on the phase of the moon and the gentle breeze in the air .

Some PS fans may be loyal, but if you ask them why there are some practical history proven rational reasons beyond BEAST!!!!!!!-Fo-Life! ...

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Casuals always make the most sales, and those people only care about two things: do the games look nice and is it cheap? That's it.

I don't think the PS3 is a good example of brand loyalty. Last gen, the PS3 totally had its ass kicked in the beginning because it cost too much. The recovery only came with the revisions that lowered the price. Only then did the casual crowd start looking at it.

It still sold close to 10 million each year for the first 3 years. That's called brand loyalty.

 

[FranXico]

It still sold close to 10 million each year for the first 3 years. That's called brand loyalty.

And the Xbox One sold more in the US than a superior product at launch holidays season. (Note: it was inferior back then). That I would really call brand loyalty.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

And the Xbox One sold more in the US than a superior product at launch holidays season. (Note: it was inferior back then). That I would really call brand loyalty.

Obviously there is brand loyalty on both sides (which you seem unwilling to admit and think Microsoft has more loyal fans which is bizzarre and biased on your part) and the Xbox One only outsold it in the USA. The PS4 didn't exactly have a great line-up either (they usually don't as Sony is usually still support previous generation). Xbox One had Ryse, Killert Instinct, Forza 5 and Dead Rising 3. PS4 had Killzone and Knack.

I didn't buy one console this generation (stuck to the PC) but any one of them can offer a great experience for the price, fuck brand loyalty. I do want Microsoft to do a much better job next generation because an arrogant Sony is not good for us in the greater picture (neither is Nintendo and Microsoft either). When we have good competition we all win.

 

[Three]

You just said earlier that the PS3 was a bad example because they recovered by lowering the price (which I had to correct you on because the PS3 still sold 10 million per year for the first 3 years) and now you're showing me 2014 sales at a time the Xbox One had very aggressive pricing and bundle deals. Thanks for letting us all know what a waste of time you are and how you're part of the problem by being loyal.

I didn't buy one console this generation (stuck to the PC) but any one of them can offer a great experience for the price, fuck brand loyalty. I do want Microsoft to do a much better job next generation because an arrogant Sony is not good for us in the greater picture (neither is Nintendo and Microsoft either). When we have good competition we all win.

Everything you are saying "makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine" as you put it. This was the launch month not the time it had very aggressive pricing. Read the date of the article. It's January 2014 talking about December 2013 sales. Xbox one launched on 22n November 2013. People were paying more for the weaker Xbox console with a shitty beta UI 'built from the ground up for ads', no BC, no sharing, streaming or apps and trying to remove all offline play. It was a bad system bought on brand alone, the definition of loyalty. In fact surveys showed that the main reason was 'brand' .

https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insig...on-gamers-have-previously-owned-consoles.html

Most Xbox one buyers were regular xbox buyers. PS4 buyers were a better distribution of ex xbox 360 users and PS3 users. Xbox one buyers listed brand as the number one reason above all else. Not sure what more evidence you need but really everything you are saying doesn't make sense.

The PS3 was also more expensive maybe arguably even weaker but really it was in the position that X is in now in terms of people complaining about it, very few exclusive games and expensive. PS3 converted the massive amount of PS2 users with full BC. They even actually had a more consumer friendly system even if it wasn't that dev friendly. It had a standard changable HDD, it had standard flash memory support, blu-ray, free online, BC, cross play, cross-buy, region free. The xbox had proprietary HDD, no bluray, proprietary memory cards, online fees, region locked, no BC (partial some time after). The PS3 recovered on price alone. There is actually very little Sony brand loyalty as much as there is for MS. If anything you can see it in the forums by the meme of "arrogant Sony" and the constant demand of features whereas there is very little complaints or demands on the other side just praise for everything they do since the almighty Spencer.