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[daycru]

OP admitted to not knowing who the goons are. This sadly seems like something right up their alley.

He made a thread in OT about BRONY CONVENTION CHILD ABDUCTION being thwarted by brave Internet people, citing some nut's Tumblr as the sole source.

 

[Skinpop]

Things associated with their gender like what, exactly? What are the subjects that a male voice is invalid in? Because a section of them promote rape, they should all be dismissed..

Promoting rape in a game I guess? Not rape generally.

 

[Valhelm]

What the fuck is a goon? MMO-speak for a troll/griefer?

 

[Patryn]

As a guy, I'm actually not opposed to them having a subforum that only women can enter. I can definitely see why others could see it as discriminatory, but I can also understand the desire by those in the minority to have a space where things aren't dominated by the majority.

And when it comes down to it, it's just a forum. I don't see why the guys were so threatened by the idea of women having a place to congregate.

What the fuck is a goon? MMO-speak for a troll/griefer?

A Something Awful forum member or a person associated with a guild that is associated with Something Awful.

 

[HariKari]

What the fuck is a goon? MMO-speak for a troll/griefer?

People that post at SomethingAwful that play games generally go under the "Goon" moniker or some variation. If you want a primer on the sort of stuff they like to do, this suicide bombing in EVE article is a good start. They give that game some life, and are liked in others, but they tend to game the system and communities they take part in.

 

[David Incorporated Esq.]

I believe he's referring to the bee, as in goonswarm on EVE: https://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/images/7/70/Goonswarm_Federation-logo.png

Oh that. Sure, goons are famous for their nonsense but I've played games in the goon guild and what it boils down to is "us against them". They're there because they like the game, not because they want to troll people.

Sure goonswarm can be nasty in EVE, but I've never heard of them causing meta-trouble for the community and its developers, just in-game trouble.

 

[Flatline]

That's because one sex doesn't have a history of being oppressed....

Did you really just pull the "why isn't there a White History month" argument?

The Irish had a history of oppression in America. Italians too. Let's start making exclusive groups based on ethnicity, gender, race, religion because they were oppressed at a certain time. Let's hang on to history and create separate (but equal) little groups, that sounds like an awesome idea. Yay for progress and equality.

He made a thread in OT about BRONY CONVENTION CHILD ABDUCTION being thwarted by brave Internet people, citing some nut's Tumblr as the sole source.

I bet all these threads are being copy pasted from some awful tumblr blog.

 

[akira28]

What the fuck is a goon? MMO-speak for a troll/griefer?

more like an organized guild of troll/griefers who moved from EvE online to other games.
They came to Mechwarrior online as Squawk Swarm or something, and depending on who you ask, they were really enthusiastic role players, or they were straight troublemakers making threats and causing discord on the message boards.

 

[shuri]

What the fuck is a goon? MMO-speak for a troll/griefer?

Players SomethingAwful forums. They used to be an incredible resource for online games about a decade ago. but since SA has faded into obscurity and was replaced by 4chan/reddit, all the 'good' elements left ages ago; the SA groups are left with the leftovers, angry entitled teenagers and fedoras. It's completely dreadful and they are toxic to every game communities.

Your average goon group used to be incredibly skilled, hardcore and knowledgeable about the game they played, and very useful. Now it's just tools and teenagers

 

[Cartman86]

The Irish had a history of oppression in America. Italians too. Let's start making exclusive groups based on ethnicity, gender, race, religion because they were oppressed at a certain time. Let's hang on to history and create separate (but equal) little groups, that sounds like an awesome idea. Yay for progress and equality.



I bet all these threads are being copy pasted from some awful tumblr blog.

You really are oblivious.

 

[RicoTheMad]

Actually "safe zones" are an acceptable and proactive part of everyday life. Let's take a look at how the status quo affects the LGBTQ segment of our population:



Now this is simply in actual life, in a place where you expect might expect better: the workplace. I have encountered this kind of backhanded bigotry myself as a transgendered person, real life or otherwise. The internet is not much better, when you consider a bigot like Gabe from Penny Arcade is an accepted member of the gaming community that hosts one of the biggest conventions around.

The point is: "safe zones" work. They empower and affirm people who feel disadvantaged by the real prejudices and bigotry that are out there. It's a shame that the Star Citizen forum is a garbage dump, it's a shame that the group couldn't get off the ground, and it's a shame that people still misunderstand the idea behind a safe zone in the year 2014.

"Safe Zones" may work but they don't solve the problem. We should not be striving to create more division because division ultimately leads to resentment and negativity. By creating exclusive groups you are actually hurting other people by making them feel as excluded as you may feel... and then the wheel goes round and round.

Exclusion has never been the answer to any societal issues.

 

[Marcel]

The Irish had a history of oppression in America. Italians too. Let's start making exclusive groups based on ethnicity, gender, race, religion because they were oppressed at a certain time. Let's hang on to history and create separate (but equal) little groups, that sounds like an awesome idea. Yay for progress and equality.

My eyes are going to roll out of my head into outer space and join the point that you missed.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

The Irish had a history of oppression in America. Italians too. Let's start making exclusive groups based on ethnicity, gender, race, religion because they were oppressed at a certain time. Let's hang on to history and create separate (but equal) little groups, that sounds like an awesome idea. Yay for progress and equality.



I bet all these threads are being copy pasted from some awful tumblr blog.

They have them. Churches, the NAACP, I'm sure there are Irish-American and Italian-American organizations as well. I don't see what's so wrong about wanting to spend time with people who have a shared history.

 

[Nipo]

The Irish had a history of oppression in America. Italians too. Let's start making exclusive groups based on ethnicity, gender, race, religion because they were oppressed at a certain time. Let's hang on to history and create separate (but equal) little groups, that sounds like an awesome idea. Yay for progress and equality.



I bet all these threads are being copy pasted from some awful tumblr blog.

Irish and Italians had numerous exclusive groups when they were immigrating to help them find work, deal with discrimination, and help promote their upward mobility.

There are hundreds of groups out there that are dedicated to helping certain minority groups succeed in cultures they either don't understanding or are hostile towards them. If the official forums are frequently sexists give women their own forum. Frequently racist give minorities their own spot too. A minority shouldn't have to suffer insults or discrimination in the name of equality. That would be some Kafkaresque world if so.

 

[veloxStrix]

See, this is what the constant debate about sexism brings up. If we all just drop the idea of sexism, it shouldn't seem so much of an issue that a group of girls want to hang out without a guy around. I mean, hasn't anyone ever had a conversation with someone that you just couldn't normally have around someone else of the opposite gender? This really doesn't seem like a big deal at all, yet with "sexism" being brought up at every corner, we now have to worry if something minor like this is going to offend someone despite the fact that it doesn't matter. At all. It's just a group. In a game. It will not kill anyone, it will hopefully not leave anyone in tears over there inability to play the game properly.

tl;dr : It's a fucking game, not a race for president. The world isn't equal, it never will be, and if it was we'd very promptly understand what a cock-up we had made and flip everything back around.

 

[block tower]

The fact that you see this as "sides" and want to passive-aggressively give a "victory" to the opposing team or whatever shows your own immaturity on this subject. Everyone should be working toward an inclusive environment and "safe zones" are a part of that.

i read that and thought that was odd too. why is he considering himself on a "side" and what competition is being had that you are competing for "victory"? lol what a bizarre "us versus them" mentality .

 

[pelican]

As a guy, I'm actually not opposed to them having a subforum that only women can enter. I can definitely see why others could see it as discriminatory, but I can also understand the desire by those in the minority to have a space where things aren't dominated by the majority.

And when it comes down to it, it's just a forum. I don't see why the guys were so threatened by the idea of women having a place to congregate.

I don't really want to get into the whole sexism debate but separate forum isn't required. It just smacks of positive discrimination to male forum members.

Imagine the reaction if there was a specific guys only forum.

 

[Marcel]

"Safe Zones" may work but they don't solve the problem. We should not be striving to create more division because division ultimately leads to resentment and negativity. By creating exclusive groups you are actually hurting other people by making them feel as excluded as you may feel... and then the wheel goes round and round.

Exclusion has never been the answer to any societal issues.

There is no silver bullet that will solve the problem. Safe zones working at all is good progress. I don't understand why anyone should feel negative about safe zones because it's not really exclusion as you describe it. Nobody is actively doing anything to you. Why does it matter to you personally that people who feel the effects of bigotry or a shared history get together to commiserate, affirm, or empower one another?

 

[Keio]

I'm very tempted to ask for a refund from RSI.

Sure, in an ideal world there would be no need for a separate group, but reading up on the behaviour of some of the forum people (and lack of mod intervention to it) I don't see any other option.

I love the fact that NeoGAF is very sensitive towards discrimination. Hats off to Evillore and the moderators for that.

 

[Cameron122]

Of course there should be a lady group in Star Citizen

But please use Samus Aran as a spokesperson

 

[OldMilwaukee]

If the official forums are frequently sexists give women their own forum. Frequently racist give minorities their own spot too. A minority shouldn't have to suffer insults or discrimination in the name of equality. That would be some Kafkaresque world if so.

Any forum will have TOS and moderation keeping that stuff down; you have to be incredibly thin-skinned to want to hide away in your own special padded room where your feelings can't get hurt.

 

[Flatline]

Irish and Italians had numerous exclusive groups when they were immigrating to help them find work, deal with discrimination, and help promote their upward mobility.

There are hundreds of groups out there that are dedicated to helping certain minority groups succeed in cultures they either don't understanding or are hostile towards them. If the official forums are frequently sexists give women their own forum. Frequently racist give minorities their own spot too. A minority shouldn't have to suffer insults or discrimination in the name of equality. That would be some Kafkaresque world if so.

Women are neither a minority and certainly not one of those groups. I find Marcel's and other posters in this thread opinion incredibly condescending towards modern women. Modern women don't need these crappy safe zones, you know what actually empowering? When you fight back when some douche is being a douche and you're being treated as just another person instead of being treated like a victim. Unfortunately I can't reply to the other two posts from the rather rude members because they didn't have any actual points.

 

[Cyrano]

I don't really want to get into the whole sexism debate but separate forum isn't required. It just smacks of positive discrimination to male forum members.

Imagine the reaction if there was a specific guys only forum.

You mean almost every forum? Privilege at work.

 

[RicoTheMad]

There is no silver bullet that will solve the problem. Safe zones working at all is good progress. I don't understand why anyone should feel negative about safe zones because it's not really exclusion as you describe it. Nobody is actively doing anything to you. Why does it matter to you personally that people who feel the effect of bigotry or a shared history get together to commiserate or empower one another?

Because regardless of what may be discussed in those closed spaces, humans tend to distrust secretive groups of people. And that leads to those groups being perceived negatively, then attacked, etc.

By closing yourself off in secretive groups, you are also denying others who may be genuinely interested in whatever you discuss the ability to grow as people and learn from your group, simply because they didn't meet whatever exclusive criteria you defined.

Like I said, the whole idea is pretty harmful for everyone and society in general.

 

[veloxStrix]

I don't really want to get into the whole sexism debate but separate forum isn't required. It just smacks of positive discrimination to male forum members.

Imagine the reaction if there was a specific guys only forum.

But why would it matter? See, that's what is so stupid about this whole situation. Yes, it's "Sexism" but if we classify this as sexism, than what do we classify private parties of friends as? "Oh, you can't have a group of only your friends! Take these guys too so you aren't discriminating against non-friends!" And what if she had just made a private group for friends? And only invited her friends, who all happen to be women? What would you have said to that? That she is sexist for having female friends? It's just a really ignorant view that people have taken by focusing on "sexism" and failing to actually think.

Edit: Not jumping on you, you just happened to be in clicking distance with a quote that I needed to piggy back my point off of.

We have sub community forums like that here, but i do not imagine the reason they are created is for those people to feel "safe", because the rest of the forums are a nightmare. They are created, i believe, for people to share similar lifestyles/backgrounds and debate whatever topics arise that are of interest for them.

This guy. ^^

 

[Into]

The word "safe" sticks out like a sore thumb

If a forum needs a safe zone for women, blacks, muslims, jews, gays etc then that forum has failed on a large scale. Everyone should feel safe and not harassed, made fun of, mocked etc.

We have sub community forums like that here, but i do not imagine the reason they are created is for those people to feel "safe", because the rest of the forums are a nightmare. They are created, i believe, for people to share similar lifestyles/backgrounds and debate whatever topics arise that are of interest for them.

 

[Veive257]

I'm very tempted to ask for a refund from RSI.

Sure, in an ideal world there would be no need for a separate group, but reading up on the behaviour of some of the forum people (and lack of mod intervention to it) I don't see any other option.

I love the fact that NeoGAF is very sensitive towards discrimination. Hats off to Evillore and the moderators for that.

You pledged for the game, not the forum. Don't expect a refund for the game because you're unhappy with the forum moderation. Actually, don't expect a refund at all because you didn't buy anything specific.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Because regardless of what may be discussed in those closed spaces, humans tend to distrust secretive groups of people. And that leads to those groups being perceived negatively, then attacked, etc.

By closing yourself off in secretive groups, you are also denying others who may be genuinely interested in whatever you discuss the ability to grow as people and learn from your group, simply because they didn't meet whatever exclusive criteria you defined.

Like I said, the whole idea is pretty harmful for everyone and society in general.

What? This isn't an underground cabal we're talking about. It's simply a group of girl gamers who wanted an area to talk amongst themselves without being picked out or talked down by male forum trolls. The response and attack of this group in no way correlates to the groups actual intentions which were completely innocuous.

 

[Patryn]

I don't really want to get into the whole sexism debate but separate forum isn't required. It just smacks of positive discrimination to male forum members.

Imagine the reaction if there was a specific guys only forum.

Except that having a guys-only forum a totally different situation, given that men are easily the majority presence. And boo fucking hoo that there's positive discrimination against men. Men dominate the main boards, so I don't really see the problem allowing a group to have a subforum just for themselves.

All that being said, I wouldn't give a shit if the guys wanted to make their own guys-only forum. They're forums. They don't mean jack in the grander scheme of things.

 

[Marcel]

Because regardless of what may be discussed in those closed spaces, humans tend to distrust secretive groups of people. And that leads to those groups being perceived negatively, then attacked, etc.

By closing yourself off in secretive groups, you are also denying others who may be genuinely interested in whatever you discuss the ability to grow as people and learn from your group, simply because they didn't meet whatever exclusive criteria you defined.

Like I said, the whole idea is pretty harmful for everyone and society in general.

Distrustful petty behavior on the part of small people shouldn't be on the forefront of anyone's minds. Women or the many other groups who feel the affects of prejudice should not have to dictate their behavior as a result of a few disgusting bigots.

And the whole "secretive" thing is laughable. What's the great secret in a women's group? I'll tell you. They're talking about whatever it is human beings talk about, which covers just about everything. Whoa big fucking deal right.

 

[KemoSabe]

Woman only eh?
Sounds like sexism...

 

[benicillin]

I have a difficult time understanding the mindset of someone who would be offended by a group for female gamers and go through such great lengths to voice their outrage. I read some highly upvoted comments about this on other forums that were literally longer than most of the papers I wrote in college - who has time to get so up-in-arms about this?

 

[Takiyah]

Distrustful petty behavior on the part of small people shouldn't be on the forefront of anyone's minds. Women or the many other groups who feel the affects of prejudice should not have to dictate their behavior as a result of a few disgusting bigots.

Everything you post is on the mark and 100% correct. I keep on feeling the need to contribute due to the amazing misconceptions in this thread but you carry the torch well.

 

[Winterblink]

When the phrase "male dominated forum" comes up, I'm curious what the meaning of it is. Does that mean statistically that there are >50% males present and active, or does that mean that the males are acting negatively or aggressively towards females who are present and active on the board?

I'm a proponent of gender equality, so I never quite understand the push for segregated boards based on your sex.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

This is mostly just coming across to me like they have a very poorly managed and moderated forum with overly vague rules and no moderator accountability.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

Distrustful petty behavior on the part of small people shouldn't be on the forefront of anyone's minds. Women or the many other groups who feel the affects of prejudice should not have to dictate their behavior as a result of a few disgusting bigots.

And the whole "secretive" thing is laughable. What's the great secret in a women's group? I'll tell you. They're talking about whatever it is human beings talk about, which covers just about everything. Whoa big fucking deal right.

So big a deal they can't talk about it outside of their hugbox.

 

[Kinyou]

Distrustful petty behavior on the part of small people shouldn't be on the forefront of anyone's minds. Women or the many other groups who feel the affects of prejudice should not have to dictate their behavior as a result of a few disgusting bigots.

And the whole "secretive" thing is laughable. What's the great secret in a women's group? I'll tell you. They're talking about whatever it is human beings talk about, which covers just about everything. Whoa big fucking deal right.

Still makes it a little odd that the woman in the op is asking for every discussion in the group to be confidential

 

[Marcel]

So big a deal they can't talk about it outside of their hugbox.

You know it's not really about importance or secrets or any of that immature shit. It's about empowering and affirming people who are marginalized. I'm not really sure why you or anyone else act willingly obtuse.

Still makes it a little odd that the woman in the op is asking for every discussion in the group to be confidential

I can't account for the behavior of others. Maybe they felt unsafe or open to attack and wanted to keep things private for that reason? I don't know all the details aside from what's in the OP.

 

[Nymphae]

I'm a proponent of gender equality, so I never quite understand the push for segregated boards based on your sex.

This is what I don't understand about the whole thing. We push for equality, so let's segregate and point fingers.

I also don't get why you'd even bother to ruffle these asshole's feathers. Just start your own message board, blog, facebook page, whatever. Make a post on the forum saying us gals are making this thing over here for anyone interested, done.

 

[RicoTheMad]

Distrustful petty behavior on the part of small people shouldn't be on the forefront of anyone's minds. Women or the many other groups who feel the affects of prejudice should not have to dictate their behavior as a result of a few disgusting bigots.

And the whole "secretive" thing is laughable. What's the great secret in a women's group? I'll tell you. They're talking about whatever it is human beings talk about, which covers just about everything. Whoa big fucking deal right.

Calm down.

"Secrets" in general beg people to wonder what they are. Humans are curious by nature, and when you exclude them they will gravitate towards them wondering "why" they were excluded. Where do you think those thoughts lead?

By creating exclusive groups you are unwittingly making others feel the same negative feelings you are trying to protect yourself from. The feeling of not belonging. It's a sad thing to me, that most people don't seem to realize this. Fighting fire with fire.

 

[Veive257]

This is mostly just coming across to me like they have a very poorly managed and moderated forum with overly vague rules and no moderator accountability.

They have moderator accountability, but because they are staffed with developers and very few customer service types, these things sometimes take a day or two to get raised to the right level where it can waste a developers time.

The RSI chatroll has been derailed with this issue, too, so I'd expect a response from CIG in a day or two.

 

[OldRoutes]

I have a difficult time understanding the mindset of someone who would be offended by a group for female gamers and go through such great lengths to voice their outrage. I read some highly upvoted comments about this on other forums that were literally longer than most of the papers I wrote in college - who has time to get so up-in-arms about this?

I know it's probably a rhetorical question, but there are a lot of benign mental problems that, untreated, can become sometimes malign.

Add anonymity to that, and then add the sentiment of "invasion of my community", and then you can probably understand why someone would go to that distance to voice their discomfort.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

You know it's not really about importance or secrets or any of that immature shit. It's about empowering and affirming people who are marginalized. I'm not really sure why you or anyone else act willingly obtuse.

I'm sure there are forums dedicated to that kind of circle-jerk outside of SC's gaming forum

 

[epmode]

This is mostly just coming across to me like they have a very poorly managed and moderated forum with overly vague rules and no moderator accountability.

This is absolutely true.

Plus, internet spaceships seem to bring out the crazies. Serious business.

 

[zeldablue]

If they feel as though they cannot speak, a separate group would be very beneficial. If "oppressed" minds were never allowed to gather, they would continue to stay very oppressed. You should encourage groups to help the whole community grow. I don't think a lot of gay people would feel welcome anywhere if it wasn't for the the gay communities ability to foster them and allow them to have a voice.

With that in mind, cutting off other sexes is pretty lame. It should be a community for people who are women or see women as equals. (I suppose we call those people white knights, although I'd just consider them good people.) And judging by their forum's content, that sub forum would be too progressive for the posters to allow...

 

[Marcel]

Calm down.

Minimizing language. Good start.

"Secrets" in general beg people to wonder what they are. Humans are curious by nature, and when you exclude them they will gravitate towards them wondering "why" they were excluded. Where do you think those thoughts lead?

How is it a mystery why they were excluded in this instance? It's a women's group. We're not talking The Maltese Falcon here. And again, the thoughts of a few bigots should not set the tone for anyone's behavior.

By creating exclusive groups you are unwittingly making others feel the same negative feelings you are trying to protect yourself from. The feeling of not belonging. It's a sad thing to me, that most people don't seem to realize this. Fighting fire with fire.

And if we were in a perfect world where prejudice and bigotry didn't exist, your point might carry more weight. Those who are marginalized can only do so much against a system and a majority that generally does not treat them well. A man feeling bad that he's not invited to the women's group should not be on any of the minds of those women who want to form a group among themselves.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Calm down.

"Secrets" in general beg people to wonder what they are. Humans are curious by nature, and when you exclude them they will gravitate towards them wondering "why" they were excluded. Where do you think those thoughts lead?

By creating exclusive groups you are unwittingly making others feel the same negative feelings you are trying to protect yourself from. The feeling of not belonging. It's a sad thing to me, that most people don't seem to realize this. Fighting fire with fire.

There's only a few kinds of conversations going on on a forum dedicated to a space sim. There's no big hidden secret that someone should be envious of not being included on. If someone is going through a crisis because they can't see into the girl's room of a forum, it's that person's problem not the people who created the forum area who formed it for their own sake.

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Hi SC backers and fans.

After a conversation today I realised there's not really a place for the females in Star Citizen to hang out and talk about random stuff in a safe environment so I'm starting one.

I have no idea what the group will be called yet as I'm bad with picking names so for now I'll just call it the Female Gamers Group of Star Citizen. (Yes, this WILL be changing).

To qualify to become a member you need to identify as a female (absolutely no guys) and that's it. There will of course be group rules such as anything said in the group must not be repeated outside of the group without the permission and such but generally it'll be a pretty relaxing place to hang out and chat.

Girls, If you're keen on getting involved please PM me here on the forums and I'll setup a voice interview with you and a general background check. I should have a jabber server setup for us to chat on soon.

Guys, once we have infrastructure setup, please feel free to get involved in the public areas but of course the private areas will be reserved for members only.

As a side note, i wanted to point out that this is in no way a Goonrathi program and is open to absolutely all organisations. Organisation politics is not welcome in the group.

The flat-out exclusion of males from offering any input to such a community whatsoever seems rather overboard(it's not like any communities here such as GirlGAF require posters to identify themselves), but considering what I've seen of the official Star Citizen forums, I can understand why you would take such a stance yet I remain confused as to to why you'd want to associate with such a forum in the first place.

 

[Kinyou]

I can't account for the behavior of others. Maybe they felt unsafe or open to attack and wanted to keep things private for that reason? I don't know all the details aside from what's in the OP.

If they'd feel that unsafe in the forum that they can't even talk about what they talk about inside the group than they'd probably be better off just starting their own forum, because a small secluded area isn't going to fix the problem. I think it's just a bit weird to ask the devs to segregate their own forum into zones that only special members would have access to.

 

[OldMilwaukee]

And if we were in a perfect world where prejudice and bigotry didn't exist, your point might carry more weight. Those who are marginalized can only do so much against a system and a majority that generally does not treat them well. A man feeling bad that he's not invited to the women's group should not be on any of the minds of those women who want to form a group among themselves.

Yet a group whose entire institution is founded on feeling excluded should always be on the minds of men who should walk on eggshells around them