Shadow of Mordor deserves more attention. Come in and be hyped with me.

It's because I appreciate the fiction that I'm unconvinced by this game. The tone of the game looks completely at odds with the tone of the stories as Tolkien wrote them. Where he wrote his stories from a strictly War-Is-Hell perspective (having suffered through the Somme himself), this game looks like it revels in its gratuity and violence. It's the worst excesses of the Jackson films, namely the focus on making war seem 'cool' and 'awesome' instead of the arduous slog it is, with some really questionable stuff added, and a boatload of stuff that simply doesn't fir the setting.

I'm sure on a mechanical level there's some good stuff going on here, but as a story that takes place in Middle Earth, it just looks like a slap in the face of everything Tolkien wrote. I've long argued that Middle Earth is a piss-poor setting for videogames, and this isn't changing that. Too much of the setting is having to be bent/broken just to make room for videogame tropes.
Fair, but at the same time we're talking about a videogame here. If the combat wasn't "fun and cool" then nobody would want to play it. I think its a nice mix of a great setting that Tolkien created, memorable characters, and fun video-gamey combat to keep you playing. They definitely strayed from the source material a bit and I completely understand that upsetting some people... but again, you have to make the game fun to play. Also I think they've honestly done a really nice job explaining how this all fits into the lore Tolkien created.
 
I've long argued that Middle Earth is a piss-poor setting for videogames, and this isn't changing that. Too much of the setting is having to be bent/broken just to make room for videogame tropes.

Actually, it just sounds like your prejudice would put you off no matter what was presented. Your objections have certainly gotten less specific as I've refuted your claims about how the lore is inconsistent with Tolkien in multiple threads about Shadow of Mordor. Even now you're making baseless assumptions about the game's tone and perspective on events.
 
Rental for me. I'm just not feeling it, maybe it's because I never got into the LOTR lore or something. Gameplay looks okay and Nemesis system is intriguing but that's about it.
 
They revealed that the game will not have difficulty settings. I think that is a bummer based on the gameplay videos.
 
This game for some reason just doesn't LOOK Lord of the Rings. The combat seems a bit too "magical" and jumpy or something. I also don't really like the character model for the main character.

I still think it has a lot of potential and I'l looking forward to it! :)
 
Actually, it just sounds like your prejudice would put you off no matter what was presented. Your objections have certainly gotten less specific as I've refuted your claims about how the lore is inconsistent with Tolkien in multiple threads about Shadow of Mordor. Even now you're making baseless assumptions about the game's tone and perspective on events.

IIRC, your didn't refute anything, simply said "Well we don't know enough about this game yet to say." For instance, on the subject of just how the main character comes back from the dead, your answer was "Well it's still a mystery." It's now substantially less of a mystery, and honestly
angry dead Celebrimbor bringing a dude back from the dead is even more of an ass-pull.
Not to mention
we're now supposed to believe that Gollum at some point was in contact with the ghost of Celebrimbor and an undead Ranger, yet this somehow never impacted the plot of LOTR.

So yeah, not entirely baseless, I feel.
 
Rental for me. I'm just not feeling it, maybe it's because I never got into the LOTR lore or something. Gameplay looks okay and Nemesis system is intriguing but that's about it.
Just asking, do you mean that the graphics/audio/voice acting isnt impressive? Since you said the gameplay and nemesis system is ok "thats about it".
I'd argue that the presentation overall is top notch, from what we've seen.
 
IIRC, your didn't refute anything, simply said "Well we don't know enough about this game yet to say." For instance, on the subject of just how the main character comes back from the dead, your answer was "Well it's still a mystery." It's now substantially less of a mystery, and honestly
angry dead Celebrimbor bringing a dude back from the dead is even more of an ass-pull.
Not to mention
we're now supposed to believe that Gollum at some point was in contact with the ghost of Celebrimbor and an undead Ranger, yet this somehow never impacted the plot of LOTR.

So yeah, not entirely baseless, I feel.

Typically the pattern of your critique has been: baseless assumption about game + false premise about Tolkien. My responses have usually come in the form of "we don't know that about the game, but here's a rational reading of the situation that is consistent based on what they've shown" + "here are numerous citations from LOTR and Silmarillion that contradict your premise". And usually at that point you leave the thread and wait for a new one to complain in. As to your specific complaints here:
We have precedent both for undead and return from the dead situations, we have examples of wraiths wielding great power, miraculous healing, we have examples of powerful beings having their fates entwined with physical objects so your blanket accusation that nothing can happen in this world unless Tolkien has already written about it happening is pointlessly pedantic and invalid. And for all we know Celebrimbor and Talion "rescue" Gollum from Mordor which directly impacts LOTR. After all, Gandalf only ever speculates about how he regained his freedom.
 
What puts me off a little by this game is the fact that we are supposedly only able to play in Mordor. I'm hoping we'll at least be able to meet Gondor.

Not to mention
we're now supposed to believe that Gollum at some point was in contact with the ghost of Celebrimbor and an undead Ranger, yet this somehow never impacted the plot of LOTR.
How and why would it impact the plot of LOTR? When can assume that Celebrimbor's revenge on Sauron did not work as expected, and the Ranger didn't do much beyond killing some Orc commanders in the long run. So how would Gollum, who might or might not know of this, give the Fellowship some 50 years+ later any information that could possibly help at all beyond Legolas being astonished that Celebrimbor was involved and Aragorn being surprised that some other Ranger is/was more awesome than him?
 
I'm definitely interested in the enemy mechanics. Due to the packed release schedule this sadly dropped a few places down on my list but I will probably get it once I'm done with Destiny and Dragon Age.
 
I was interested when they announced it and I've been getting more and more curious as we've seen more and more of the game. The E3 demo and the story trailer a couple of days ago have me convinced. I've pre-ordered it on PS4 via Amazon but I'll probably end up getting it on Steam instead.

I'm definitely interested in the enemy mechanics. Due to the packed release schedule this sadly dropped a few places down on my list but I will probably get it once I'm done with Destiny and Dragon Age.

With the Dragon Age delay this comes out right inbetween them though. If I'm not done with Destiny 3 weeks after it comes out I might wait to pick this game up in the Steam Winter sale. Ah, I really don't know, there are far too many games coming out this Autumn :(
 
This game looks good and it looks like it will have a good gameplay.I should be impressed by this game as I like AC, Arkham games and love LOTR but I just can not get excited for this game. The rivalry system and combat looks promising but I am afraid thats all that this game has.

The map/setting of Mordor is cool but cant pour countless hours in one setting (which skilling enemy after enemy. The game doesnt feel diverse and it seems like there is nothing else in the game to offer other than the combat.

I understand why OP would say it resembles AC, Arkham games and Dragon Age but if I am not mistaken.. this game doesnt have much to do other than combat unlike those games. It "looks" like those games, but I doubt it will have as much content in it.

I may be complete wrong with this opinion, but I am basing it on all the released gameplay videos.

I will wait for the reviews and impressions before I decide.
 
I was interested when they announced it and I've been getting more and more curious as we've seen more and more of the game. The E3 demo and the story trailer a couple of days ago have me convinced. I've pre-ordered it on PS4 via Amazon but I'll probably end up getting it on Steam instead.

You can get the Steam version for about half price through traders.
 
Still expecting this to be absolutely mediocre at best and another Assassin's Creed at worst, actually.
Of course, as usual I would be very glad to be proven wrong about it.
 
Probably best to include a link to one of your old posts where you explain the process in detail.

I thought about that, but I figured I'd offer to help out as middle man instead, if anybody's curious.

Edit: To be clear, that's not the sake of adding a little on the top for myself. It's just easier, as well as a little cheaper than sourcing "new" keys from the Community Market/Mann Co. store and far less daunting/dangerous than going the second-hand key route.
 
Lord of The Ring license is actually the one that make me less hyped about this game, I wish it's simply it's own universe. the gameplay I've seen looks cool, but it also didn't look like a LoTR at all. like what's with the main characters abilities. it just make some of my favorite characters in the LoTR movies like Aragorn etc looks bad in comparison to this dude, whose first impression when I saw him is Aragorn clone. I dunno, it's kinda weird, it just make me wonder if I'll be able to enjoy the world and narrative this game has.

I never realized it's made by Monolith though, I like their previous games. so maybe I'll give this a try, but the time it's released is jam packed with many other games though, there's DriveClub, Sherlock Holmes C&P, Evil Within, AC Unity, and Lords of The Fallen all within a month.
 
I never realized it's made by Monolith though, I like their previous games. so maybe I'll give this a try, but the time it's released is jam packed with many other games though, there's DriveClub, Sherlock Holmes C&P, Evil Within, AC Unity, and Lords of The Fallen all within a month.

Monolith's pretty much a shell of its former self these days. A number of veterans, some of which had been with Monolith since the NOLF days, formed Blackpowder Games and released Betrayer earlier in the year*.

* Formally, that is. It'd earlier been available as an Early Access title.
 
Regardless of the intellectual property or the voice actors involved, do we really need another Assassins Creed type of game in a year where we potentially already have three being released?
 
I'm up for it. Has a lot of elements I like - sandbox, open environments, multiple ways to finish goals (stealthy or head on), a nice atmosphere etc. And it's cheap! On Amazon £25 for the PC or only £40 for PS4 and £37 for Xbone. Wonder why the Xbone is cheaper? Lower res?lol
 
It's developed by Monolith, who you may know from No One Lives Forever, Condemned, and F.E.A.R. So, yeah, they're good.

Also Shogo and Blood 2.
I wasn't interested in the game before, I am now.


(But as a Tolkien-taliban I still hate the stupid lore-breaking premises, tho)
 
Monolith's pretty much a shell of its former self these days. A number of veterans, some of which had been with Monolith since the NOLF days, formed Blackpowder Games and released Betrayer earlier in the year*.

* Formally, that is. It'd earlier been available as an Early Access title.

hmm, the trailer for betrayer didn't really grabbed me unfortunately, is it good?
 
It's because I appreciate the fiction that I'm unconvinced by this game. The tone of the game looks completely at odds with the tone of the stories as Tolkien wrote them. Where he wrote his stories from a strictly War-Is-Hell perspective (having suffered through the Somme himself), this game looks like it revels in its gratuity and violence. It's the worst excesses of the Jackson films, namely the focus on making war seem 'cool' and 'awesome' instead of the arduous slog it is, with some really questionable stuff added, and a boatload of stuff that simply doesn't fir the setting.

I'm sure on a mechanical level there's some good stuff going on here, but as a story that takes place in Middle Earth, it just looks like a slap in the face of everything Tolkien wrote. I've long argued that Middle Earth is a piss-poor setting for videogames, and this isn't changing that. Too much of the setting is having to be bent/broken just to make room for videogame tropes.

internet-high-five.jpg
 
Regardless of the intellectual property or the voice actors involved, do we really need another Assassins Creed type of game in a year where we potentially already have three being released?

Considering the biggest issue with AC games is that they have shit hand to hand combat and that this seems to fix it. I'd say yes. AC games are awesome otherwise.
 
I'm scared of overhyping this and then being disappointed when I play it. So I just ignore it as much as possible until release.
 
It's because I appreciate the fiction that I'm unconvinced by this game. The tone of the game looks completely at odds with the tone of the stories as Tolkien wrote them. Where he wrote his stories from a strictly War-Is-Hell perspective (having suffered through the Somme himself), this game looks like it revels in its gratuity and violence. It's the worst excesses of the Jackson films, namely the focus on making war seem 'cool' and 'awesome' instead of the arduous slog it is, with some really questionable stuff added, and a boatload of stuff that simply doesn't fir the setting.

I'm sure on a mechanical level there's some good stuff going on here, but as a story that takes place in Middle Earth, it just looks like a slap in the face of everything Tolkien wrote. I've long argued that Middle Earth is a piss-poor setting for videogames, and this isn't changing that. Too much of the setting is having to be bent/broken just to make room for videogame tropes.

I think we've had this discussion before about this exact same topic. However, why does it matter that it has a different tone to Tolkein's writing? It's written by different people, for a different purpose. Spin off titles don't need to share the exact same tone and messages as previous works in a universe.

I can agree that some of the magic stuff is a bit iffy and doesn't fit particularly well into the LOTR universe. However arguing that it doesn't work because it doesn't match Tolkein's tone is frankly a bit silly. Middle Earth isn't defined by the message that war is hell. It's defined by what Tolkein wrote, not how he wrote it. He wrote about orcs and men, dark powers, wizards, elves and dwarves, giant cities, deep caverns, evil monsters and little heroes. He created a world which people want to explore. This exploration shouldn't be limited by the messages he wove into his writings.


New works don't change his previous writings. They aren't a "slap in the face". Those books are still there to be read, completely unchanged by this game.
 
On the one hand, it's Assassin's Creed x Lord of the Rings.

On the other hand, it's Assassin's Creed x Lord of the Rings.


I'm conflicted.
 
New works don't change his previous writings. They aren't a "slap in the face". Those books are still there to be read, completely unchanged by this game.

His old work wouldn't be changed. The people's perception however, will ultimately changed and get the wrong message than intended, especially those who late to the party with the books. While I personally believe that what people perceived from a work is ultimately more defining than what the author originally meant to, when the perception changed by the others work that is not originally came from the author themselves, I found it very problematic.

This is why I anticipate Shadow of Mordor as a game, not as a LotR game as I already given up the franchise (I hate using this word, but it's the truth) long time ago.
 
I haven't followed the game, but looking at the combat it seems more of an Arkham game than an RPG, what are the roleplaying elements? I guess just weapons stats?
 
I think we've had this discussion before about this exact same topic. However, why does it matter that it has a different tone to Tolkein's writing? It's written by different people, for a different purpose. Spin off titles don't need to share the exact same tone and messages as previous works in a universe.

I can agree that some of the magic stuff is a bit iffy and doesn't fit particularly well into the LOTR universe. However arguing that it doesn't work because it doesn't match Tolkein's tone is frankly a bit silly. Middle Earth isn't defined by the message that war is hell. It's defined by what Tolkein wrote, not how he wrote it. He wrote about orcs and men, dark powers, wizards, elves and dwarves, giant cities, deep caverns, evil monsters and little heroes. He created a world which people want to explore. This exploration shouldn't be limited by the messages he wove into his writings.

I disagree on this point entirely. The themes and ideas behind what he wrote in The Hobbit and LOTR (what you define as how he wrote) are the most important parts of the story. There are a million books out there with orcs and wizards and dark powers. Almost none of them have the same power, appeal or success as LOTR. Why? Because while very many writers have copied wholesale what Tolkien wrote (the wizards and orcs), they ignored the ideas and themes that made his stories so powerful in the first place. They copied the 'what' but not the 'how'.

The themes Tolkien covers in LOTR, regarding corruption, war, power et all, aren't just unimportant bits of background decoration, they are absolutely key parts of the story. Not just in the characters or the events, but in the actual way the narrative plays out. This is a setting where every evil thing in Middle Earth has its origins in the works of Melkor, where violence as the root of all evil isn't just a pretty saying, but an actual historic fact. The reason that orcs, trolls, wargs, wraiths and other fell things even exist in Middle Earth is because Melkor turned against the Valar and decided to start a millenia-spanning war. Every part of Middle Earth's history is defined by the fact that war is almost literally hell, as it is the creation of the supreme agent of Evil within the setting. The reason the Tolkien Estate (and Christopher Tolkien in particular) have been upset over the films is because how how they missed that point, and instead focused on making the warring seem as cool as possible. This game looks to be going even worse in that regard, making primal violence the main appeal of the game, rather than one of its main horrors.

While writers are certainly at liberty to do what they want with the story (although in this case the story is legally obliged to be sat between The Hobbit and LOTR with no mention of the Silmarillion), they also have an obligation to make sure it is fitting and in keeping with the series it is drawing on. The LOTR series is one where the themes of the story are absolutely an integral part of the whole, and the 'how' is just as important as the 'what'. Jettisoning that to make a game which glorifies a magic ranger slaughtering orcs in a 'super epic' way just misses the point completely. It's like making a sequel to Saving Private Ryan and ending up with Captain America.

That's not saying anything on the game's mechanics or gameplay, just that it looks to have gained absolutely nothing by being set in Middle Earth, as opposed to an original fantasy setting that would allow for this sort of revelry in violence.
 
On the one hand, it's Assassin's Creed x Lord of the Rings.

On the other hand, it's Assassin's Creed x Lord of the Rings.


I'm conflicted.

But it's AC x LOTR as co-written and directed by Christian Cantamessa, the lead designer and co-writer of Red Dead Redemption. Plus the combat looks way more empowering than any AC title, and the nemesis syetem is a great twist on these open world action/adventure titles. Have a little faith and hope for the best.
 
The themes Tolkien covers in LOTR, regarding corruption, war, power et all, aren't just unimportant bits of background decoration, they are absolutely key parts of the story. Not just in the characters or the events, but in the actual way the narrative plays out. This is a setting where every evil thing in Middle Earth has its origins in the works of Melkor, where violence as the root of all evil isn't just a pretty saying, but an actual historic fact. The reason that orcs, trolls, wargs, wraiths and other fell things even exist in Middle Earth is because Melkor turned against the Valar and decided to start a millenia-spanning war. Every part of Middle Earth's history is defined by the fact that war is almost literally hell, as it is the creation of the supreme agent of Evil within the setting. The reason the Tolkien Estate (and Christopher Tolkien in particular) have been upset over the films is because how how they missed that point, and instead focused on making the warring seem as cool as possible. This game looks to be going even worse in that regard, making primal violence the main appeal of the game, rather than one of its main horrors.

While I'm not surprised to learn you have the same stick up your butt as the Tolkien estate, it may shock you to learn they are not the ultimate authority on how his work should be interpreted. While it is popular these days to read LOTR as an anti-war polemic, and it is obvious that Tolkien himself was horrified by his experiences in WWI, it is also clear that he romanticized the past and pined for an age when warfare was more "civilized". For why else would we get so many loving descriptions of mail clad armies glittering in the sun or spears arrayed like a forest. And the fact remains that war is basically how every conflict in Middle-Earth is solved. The Valar warred with Morgoth. The Last Alliance warred with Sauron. Gondor and Rohan assault the Black Gate to occupy Sauron long enough for Gollum to bite off Frodo's finger and steal back the ring, and even Sam, Frodo, Merry and Pippin muster the Hobbits when they return how to rout Saruman's occupying force.

And I'll remind you again that you continue to condemn the game based on things you have prejudicially assumed about it without considering the possibility that it will have thematic depth.
 
As a side game rather than main canon it looks fantastic, with the layering of the systems and the methods of delivering action.

But I don't look at it as canon, it is a genuinely "next gen game" trying something new so that's why I'll buy it.
 
I disagree on this point entirely. The themes and ideas behind what he wrote in The Hobbit and LOTR (what you define as how he wrote) are the most important parts of the story. There are a million books out there with orcs and wizards and dark powers. Almost none of them have the same power, appeal or success as LOTR. Why? Because while very many writers have copied wholesale what Tolkien wrote (the wizards and orcs), they ignored the ideas and themes that made his stories so powerful in the first place. They copied the 'what' but not the 'how'.

That's what all the copycat do: completely missing the point of what makes a historical work become great in the first. They are too focused on the what and not the how, reading solely as source instead of digging for the inspiration behind it. This always result a cheap derivative works that we found across all medium. Not everyone realize this, but judging from your username, I'm not surprise.
 
Top Bottom