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Shadow Tactics |OT| A worthy Commandos spiritual successor [PS4/X1 on August 1st]
- Thread starter More_Badass
- Start date
Alethebeer
Member
Wow. If mission 4 took you almost 4 hours i wonder how many will mission 7 take.
Kaffeemann
Banned
A tip to prevent an annoying bug in mission 11:
Don't scare the Masseur or the target will remain in an unreachable building until you kill the Masseur.
grandwizard
Member
Finished the game and loved it. That last mission was brutal but felt really good getting through it. This is easily one of the best games of the year and it's sad how much its being overlooked. I really hope they get to make another game like this.
Zepp Twofist
Member
I wonder how well it has sold. Steamspy says 40k, but I know gog.com has featured it pretty prominently as well.
This is the kind of game that could easily move 250k copies if it just gets the right exposure though.
Desperadoes and Robin Hood Legends of Sherwood.
Soulblighter31
Banned
There are a few, but you'll have to go back in time a bit
1999 - Shadow Company Left for Dead
2000 - Gunlok
2001 - Star Trek Away Team
2001 - Desperados
2002 - Robin Hood Legend of Sherwood
2002 - Soldiers of Anarchy
2003 - Cold Zero - No Mercy
2003 - Korea: Forgotten Conflict
2003 - Chicago 1930
2005 - Desperados 2
You can also look at MechCommander 1 and 2, from 98 and 01. And the recent Satellite Reign.
Thanks! I'll check them out after finishing with this game.
I had a lot of free time this weekend so I ended up buying this after all. My initial impressions of the demo basically stand, I think.
The puzzle game -like nature of many of the later levels is a strong point, though it's really frustrating that a lot of what determines if you can actually implement your solution is how quickly you can switch between characters and turn the camera and issue orders. When it clicks and you clear like six guards with three characters while moving two of the bodies so that the passing patrol doesn't see them, it feels great. But that takes more than five quickloads, and it takes that many just because you couldn't press buttons fast enough.
Relatedly, I wish the intended experience wasn't designed as much around save scumming. Like, there's this whole possible way to play it that's based around really carefully observing everything and working out in advance what the best approach is going to be, but in practice you should just be moving pretty aggressively and abusing quicksaves and loads. They even limit your ability to see multiple viewcones at the same time and they only let you plant one vision test flag, so it feels like it's really pushing you towards trial and error.
Something you don't appreciate at first but which becomes really important is how different the characters are, even in little ways. Like, when Yuki drags a body she counts as crouching, but she's really slow.
The puzzle game -like nature of many of the later levels is a strong point, though it's really frustrating that a lot of what determines if you can actually implement your solution is how quickly you can switch between characters and turn the camera and issue orders. When it clicks and you clear like six guards with three characters while moving two of the bodies so that the passing patrol doesn't see them, it feels great. But that takes more than five quickloads, and it takes that many just because you couldn't press buttons fast enough.
Relatedly, I wish the intended experience wasn't designed as much around save scumming. Like, there's this whole possible way to play it that's based around really carefully observing everything and working out in advance what the best approach is going to be, but in practice you should just be moving pretty aggressively and abusing quicksaves and loads. They even limit your ability to see multiple viewcones at the same time and they only let you plant one vision test flag, so it feels like it's really pushing you towards trial and error.
Something you don't appreciate at first but which becomes really important is how different the characters are, even in little ways. Like, when Yuki drags a body she counts as crouching, but she's really slow.
grandwizard
Member
The devs posted on the Steam forum about how the quick saving system was an alternative to a rewind system that would have been a bigger technical challenge. I think it works pretty great with the three slots. For games like this with a lot of experimentation and reptition I think you can 'gamify' quick saves/loads and Shadow Tactics did it pretty well by encouraging you to quick save often with the timer. I also like Invisible Inc making them expendable resources with a certain amount of rewinds you get each mission, with that number going down as you play harder difficulties.
I actually like the viewcone thing a lot. My take is that they made it so you can only actively focus on one guy's viewcone because otherwise I would just have everyone's cone on at all times and instead of playing and viewing the game I'd be looking at nothing but cones and snaking through them. It's one of those things where limiting your ability works out better in the end. And I like how you can always right click on an enemy for the view cone no matter what you are doing with your current left click action, so you can quickly change from one to another. The 'detection marker' also helps with this.
I actually like the viewcone thing a lot. My take is that they made it so you can only actively focus on one guy's viewcone because otherwise I would just have everyone's cone on at all times and instead of playing and viewing the game I'd be looking at nothing but cones and snaking through them. It's one of those things where limiting your ability works out better in the end. And I like how you can always right click on an enemy for the view cone no matter what you are doing with your current left click action, so you can quickly change from one to another. The 'detection marker' also helps with this.
I would actually welcome a system like this. It will encourage a play style totally opposite to the one we are playing right now, quick on your toes ( or fingers), puts more emphasis on the action. I'd love to see a playthrough like this.
I like the limited quick saves in Invisible, Inc. as well, but I don't think that system would work well in Shadow Tactics. For one, Invisible is a TBS game and you can take your time plotting your big-picture strategy while also evaluating the success of each single move. Feels more chess-like in that regard. Secondly, it's really hard to recover from being discovered in Shadow. It's almost like discovery = instant reload in my gameplay style. Everything moves so quickly that the moment you're spotted, things spiral out of control in an instant. Invisible, Inc. feels far more forgiving in this dept. Seems like you can recover more easily without leaning on a quick load.
grandwizard
Member
Yeah, they are two different types of stealth. Invisible Inc's detection is like an inevitability and can be recovered from whereas in Shadow Tactics it is more like a failure state.
More_Badass
Member
Personally I'd like to be able to see two, but that's it
Wheelatron
Member
There's an alternate path.
oh shit, thanks! Gonna look for it
grandwizard
Member
i mean wtf do i do here
I just used Kuma to distract the regular guards then put people in that bush. Do it again and you can run them across and take out the straw hat while hes not looking.
The alternate path is using old dude's sniper rifle to shoot the ice at the top of the ledge from the previous area that will unveil something that can be hookshotted to
The alternate path is using old dude's sniper rifle to shoot the ice at the top of the ledge from the previous area that will unveil something that can be hookshotted to
I called the tanuki (Kuma?) when controlling Takuma in the cage, right at the beginning of the mission. It brought me ammo.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Is there a bigstep up in difficulty at some point?Just did 5 and its been abit of a breeze lately.
Alethebeer
Member
Just beaten. Final mission was amazing.
Loved it from the beginning until the end.
Loved it from the beginning until the end.
I didn't even see that you can shoot the thing on the roof to insta kill the two samurais just outside the gate of the inner garden. I did a combination of dizzing powder and the pebble, i entered the garden and went crazy to put Aiko behind the little statue to dress up. Then i realize that you can kill the two samurais with Takuma and that i could dress up right where they were. Felt good and angry at the same time ahah.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Actually submitted a steam review for the first time, just to show support for this game.
Kaffeemann
Banned
I'm currently doing it and it IS brutal.
Alethebeer
Member
In arrivo ledizione italiana di Shadow Tactics a un prezzo inferiore a quello di Steam.
ItalyGAF, distributor Adevnture Productions just announced that it will manage the retail distribution and the italian localization for the game. Both localization and retail release are scheduled for early 2017. Price will be also 10 less, so 29,9
ItalyGAF, distributor Adevnture Productions just announced that it will manage the retail distribution and the italian localization for the game. Both localization and retail release are scheduled for early 2017. Price will be also 10 less, so 29,9
grandwizard
Member
Artbook (incl. strategy guide) and soundtrack just went live on Steam. Definitely picking up the soundtrack. Love those drums.
Coreda
Member
Invert camera rotation. Excellent.
sadaiyappan
Member
Can you play this with a controller?
Yup.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Yup i much prefer it, but being able to switch between both on the fly is super useful.
Picked this up the other day as it's been sat on my wishlist since it went up on Steam.
It is everything I hoped it would be and I really hope it does well so we can get more of it.
Looking forward to digging into it over the holidays. =D
I'm actually astounded at how good the controls are for this. I prefer it over the mouse and keyboard.
It is everything I hoped it would be and I really hope it does well so we can get more of it.
Looking forward to digging into it over the holidays. =D
I'm actually astounded at how good the controls are for this. I prefer it over the mouse and keyboard.
grandwizard
Member
Anyone have any recommendations for games like this? I wish there was more shadow tactics. I've already played the commandos and desperados series but its been a long time so I might just go back to them. Anything more recent?
Satellite Reign is Commandos-ish. It's nowhere near as slavish to the commandos formula as shadow tactics is, but it's a great game and is like 85% off on steam currently.
Finished it! Took me around 30 hours and I loved every minute of it. Last mission alone took me around 3h and 30min and it really forced me to think in some creative ways to overcome the challenges. Aiko's snooze powder can be such a life-saver.
Even the story is really well done. It's fairly straightforward, but works very well and manages to make you care about the characters. And (big spoilers)
My 2016 GOTY along with Overwatch.
Can't wait for more games from this team.
Even the story is really well done. It's fairly straightforward, but works very well and manages to make you care about the characters. And (big spoilers)
I didn't expect Mugen's death. In a typical game he would have survived thanks to some cliché. But he messed it up and atoned for it with his life like samurais of old used to do. That added a ton of credibility to the overall plot & characters
My 2016 GOTY along with Overwatch.
Can't wait for more games from this team.
Riposte
Member
Commandos has been a series I've wanted to try for a long time, but never managed to find the right moment to. The concept of it has always appealed to me and I'd even say if I could make any game I wanted, it would be a little something like it. Shadow Tactics seems to deliver on that, judging from what I know of the series. Glad to have picked it up even as I'm rushing to finish up my GOTY list. About five missions in, I'm enjoying it as I thought I would, although it still feels like I'm in the tutorial phase. I'm very eager to see things how come to together and I'm holding off on making an assessment until that point.
The one thing that's bringing it down for me is the complete dependence on save-scumming. The game is seemingly designed around it and, for better or worse, shoves a timer in your face so you can manage the pace of your saves. There's a skeleton of a score system at the end of missions, although it's more like a fact sheet, with some "goals" you don't know until you've completed the mission (kind of like MGSV, but with no real in-game point to them). I guess speed-running on your second or third playthrough is where the real mastery is to be found (I don't know yet if save-scumming helps or hurts this), but what it really feels like is the developers are leaving the responsibility of designing their game's difficulty curve to me. I keep running into games with obnoxious save systems, but it's particularly noticeable in a game like this, at least on Hardcore difficulty, where a fraction of a mistake in a fully real-time system gets you killed instantly. It's hard to find the right balance, and it's all too easy to fall into the habit of turning every room into a checkpoint-heavy puzzle sequence rather than a sandbox.
Has anyone tried playing with a controller?
The one thing that's bringing it down for me is the complete dependence on save-scumming. The game is seemingly designed around it and, for better or worse, shoves a timer in your face so you can manage the pace of your saves. There's a skeleton of a score system at the end of missions, although it's more like a fact sheet, with some "goals" you don't know until you've completed the mission (kind of like MGSV, but with no real in-game point to them). I guess speed-running on your second or third playthrough is where the real mastery is to be found (I don't know yet if save-scumming helps or hurts this), but what it really feels like is the developers are leaving the responsibility of designing their game's difficulty curve to me. I keep running into games with obnoxious save systems, but it's particularly noticeable in a game like this, at least on Hardcore difficulty, where a fraction of a mistake in a fully real-time system gets you killed instantly. It's hard to find the right balance, and it's all too easy to fall into the habit of turning every room into a checkpoint-heavy puzzle sequence rather than a sandbox.
Has anyone tried playing with a controller?
Most missions will take you a good 1 - 2 hours to beat.
Zepp Twofist
Member
With the pace I'm going at hardcore on my first run through, that estimate would make me pretty embarrassed. But yeah, most levels (maybe all?) are longer than the first.
I played it entirely with a controller and it was really great.
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