benicillin
Banned
It's actually worse, because Background Briefing (the news program) says they discovered the files actually still existed. So the police lied to her.
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Shaming Rapists in private Facebook groups
- Thread starter Machina
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It's actually worse, because Background Briefing (the news program) says they discovered the files actually still existed. So the police lied to her.
excelsiorlef
Member
They weren't. The police lied
When people start turning away from official paths en masse it is a sign that the official paths are dysfunctional. Combine this with women constantly being treated like shit during rape accusations and rape prosecutions not going through, and this "outing" behavior is never going to stop.
Most rape cases don't get to trial. Most that do don't get convicted.
So by your own parameters, you'd have to believe that most women who go to the court system after their abuse at best don't know when they've been raped, and at worst are liars, because the fact is rape is extremely under-convicted compared to the rates of occurrence that we're aware of. That is the truth the court system reports.
Yes, but as someone who is a potential victim and has to think about this shit daily, one of those is more likely to give me actual usable information and thus help keep me safe.
This is a societal problem that absolutely must be addressed, I still don't get why the innocent need to potentially pay the price for that.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
You know who was accused of raping a minor (12-13 year old girl), it was never proven in court, and he didn't have his life ruined?
The President of the United States of America.
But sure, tell me again how being accused of rape invariably ruins any man's life and causes incredible damage to him. Continue focusing entirely on that and not the millions of women who are raped without justice or any kind of legal recourse DAILY. Because we all know where your sense of empathy lies.
Glass Rebel
Member
Courts that have shown to be unreliable and even you yourself acknowledge have failed?
LOL
Because as it turns out when someone is raped they want to let other people know who the rapist is, and if the official path does not permit it, they will take what is available to them.
Yikes another GAF rape thread, here we go.
"Ingram is part of a bigger movement of young women who are willing to take the law into their own hands in sexual assault cases." These needs to be stamped out ASAP.
I understand the frustration many feel with sexual assault/rape cases but this shit only serves to make things worse. Focus your efforts on improving laws, policing, and (in my opinion most important) education.
School's have already started to do this but I think it needs to start being hammered down as early as High School or whenever basic sex ed starts. There are too many people out there that believe rape is only when you forcibly kidnap a girl, tie her down, etc etc. Many people don't find an issue with unconscious sex, stopping in the middle after a verbal no, and just a general "impaired consent" concept.
Laws and proper investigating/police work can be improved but can only go so far due to how cloudy certain cases can be. You need to instill proper understanding of what rape is and what consent is in people before they get to college.
"Ingram is part of a bigger movement of young women who are willing to take the law into their own hands in sexual assault cases." These needs to be stamped out ASAP.
I understand the frustration many feel with sexual assault/rape cases but this shit only serves to make things worse. Focus your efforts on improving laws, policing, and (in my opinion most important) education.
School's have already started to do this but I think it needs to start being hammered down as early as High School or whenever basic sex ed starts. There are too many people out there that believe rape is only when you forcibly kidnap a girl, tie her down, etc etc. Many people don't find an issue with unconscious sex, stopping in the middle after a verbal no, and just a general "impaired consent" concept.
Laws and proper investigating/police work can be improved but can only go so far due to how cloudy certain cases can be. You need to instill proper understanding of what rape is and what consent is in people before they get to college.
No see you're not acting rational, Machina is and that's why Trump won
or something. Machine is just very rational. We should defer to Machina's reason, logic, and knowledge. There is absolutely no reason for victims of crime to talk about who victimized them unless that person was convicted in our courts. That is mob mentality.
So stop it.
Large scale social changes are not the only means individuals have to protect themselves.
Like, if I get raped right now, the fact that someone is sorta kinda working on making it easier for me to charge someone in the ambiguous future doesn't actually do me any good, now does it?
Like, if I get raped right now, the fact that someone is sorta kinda working on making it easier for me to charge someone in the ambiguous future doesn't actually do me any good, now does it?
Glass Rebel
Member
"You were raped? Don't accuse the person who raped you, just change the entire system that is systematically built against you from top to bottom. No biggie."
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
"A million raped women and their rapists going free is better than 1 false rape accusation, even if the one accused becomes president."
Agent Gibbs
Member
Worded this better than I have tried and failed to!
I really do think there needs to be some sort of victim support group like this, but offline and/or requiring some form of checks on membership, it weeds out trolls and deters false accusers, and if they do get in they have details of the real person! but there already are groups like that out there.
This is the real issue we should be tackling, not going "oh the system is fucked so lets get out the public stocks, whats the alternative?"
H.Protagonist
[-_-]/
Yep. Every damn time.
Netherscourge
Banned
I have no problem with what she did.
All rapists should be shamed and publicly exposed.
Could this be abused for someone's personal agenda to wrongfully accuse someone?
Maybe. But it's worth the false-positives if there's a chance to bring forward more victims of the same rapist and warn other people who may be in a relationship with him.
If this asshole did this before to someone else, there's a better chance of that person coming forward to strengthen her own case against him by exposing this publicly.
Kudos to her. More victims should do this.
All rapists should be shamed and publicly exposed.
Could this be abused for someone's personal agenda to wrongfully accuse someone?
Maybe. But it's worth the false-positives if there's a chance to bring forward more victims of the same rapist and warn other people who may be in a relationship with him.
If this asshole did this before to someone else, there's a better chance of that person coming forward to strengthen her own case against him by exposing this publicly.
Kudos to her. More victims should do this.
Sorry, rape victims, you will need to deal with it. The improbable but hypothetical chance that I be falsely named-and-shamed in this scenario is just too high to allow you to warn others of potential so-called "rapists". It is simply unacceptable that my name be dragged through the mud, knowing that there is no known legal recourse to being slandered or defamed. Therefore, I will have to insist that you only rely on a legal system that has consistently been found to fail rape victims. I will even extend an olive branch and claim that I empathize with rape victims, however that empathy ends exactly at the point where a hypothetical average guy might get falsely accused and have no legal recourse to clear his name. I am being coy, because of course he has legal recourse since defamation and slander laws exist, and certainly more effective than whatever legal justice rape victims can expect. But remember, I empathize with them too. It's too bad nothing can be done to help them. It's just that I can only care so much about crimes that are unlikely to affect me given my privilege as a man, versus the miniscule chance of being affected by it by a false accusation.
ebullientprism
Member
Anyone who is applauding this needs to be directed to that other thread about the three guys that nearly had their lives wrecked due to false rape charges.
Zeyphersan
Banned
I was just drafting up this post, along with some other examples of men being accused of or actually doing terrible things to women and not really getting their careers hamstrung in the slightest (Chris Brown. R. Kelly). Men dont really get bogged down by this stuff like people think they do. They generally do just fine.
I already did that when prompted to, but it got deflected as "there is no evidence these men were harmed in any way by these abhorrent accusations".
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Okay? And iinnocent people have been sent to prison. Does that mean we should get rid of prisons on the slight chance that we might send an innocent person there?
Psychoward
Banned
....what about the people who did have their lives wrecked by actual rape
Do you want every legal system on Earth dismantled because they bring up false positives, or do you believe the false positives are worth the benefits of a legal system?
EDIT: Furthermore, why is it that women who are the victims of rape are always told to deal and wait for societal changes before naming and shaming, but men who are falsely accused of rape are never told that they should just wait for social changes to come that make it easier to mitigate the damage of an accusation?
Okay, is this just gender warfare now or isn't it? I surely hope not, because last I looked everyone in this thread is on the same page when it comes to rape.
ebullientprism
Member
How is this a "legal system"?
Mohonky
Member
Yeh about those receipts and fan fiction, might want to bring some of your own.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thin...ocent-life-after-a-false-rape-accusation.html
The kid in that articles mother went on to kill herself shortly after her son.
This is a good read for you;
http://www.neogaf.com/forum//showthread.php?t=1413057
Don't forget the law isn't the only thing to come after those falsely accused of rape, it incites vigilantes who assault or kill people who have been accused of such things.
It's scary how many of GAF has a really bad habit of jumping on the 'accused of rape, has to be guilty' band wagon, it's about the only time 'innocent until proven guilty' doesn't apply.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Clearly, we aren't. And clearly our legal system isn't either.
Psychoward
Banned
benicillin
Banned
HAHAHAHA.
You can't possibly be this fucking obtuse, but in case you are:
The American legal system has jailed and killed thousands, if not potentially millions, of innocent people throughout its lifespan.
Should the American legal system thus be discarded?
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Women wanting justice after getting raped is "gender warfare" guys
We all agree that rape is bad. It's just that rape victims should shut up and stop talking about it.
Audioboxer
Member
If it's truly private groups there isn't much that can be done (or even should be done). I pointed it out on the previous page but people still seem to be ignoring the part from the article that highlights we're not just talking private FB groups for support
With the follow up from law enforcement
If you're part of a support group/network, such as any victims anonymous meetings, you'll be talking about your experiences and possibly be in a situation where someone hasn't been convicted. You won't be told to stop talking in your group meeting because a jury hasn't stated a guilty verdict yet. Same will apply to any private online support circles. The bigger issue here is what private means versus public. If you're openly tagging people in public comments and naming them personally in public, you do potentially open yourself up to issues, especially if they are still protected legally as being innocent. That's probably where even in a situation when people empathise with you, the internet can end up hurting you if you use it in a way which might backfire. That is where support groups/public support can blur lines into vigilante justice, which doesn't always help.
Ryzaki009
Member
Like lol at people thinking most women are gonna run up on a rapist and call them out unless they were the victim. The far more likelier scenario is the one named hitting on another woman at a some other event she asks for their name there's a bit of an awkward silence and she hastily make an excuse to get the hell away from him leaving him to wonder wtf happened.
But I'm all for this. Some moderation would be needed so trolls aren't posting bs but other than that yeah.
But I'm all for this. Some moderation would be needed so trolls aren't posting bs but other than that yeah.
People that think people that 'maybe' rapists should be outed need to think how bad it can get for that person. I was accused of rape for now reason and treated like shit by the police ( probably cus I am black). After time I had my name cleared, but I was on bail nearly 2 months. If my name/ picture got out etc, my life would have been ruined even more.
In that case did the police suppress evidence and lie to the victim? I'm asking because I don't know
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
So the statistically extremely slight and exceedingly rare chance that you will be falsely accused of rape is more important than the millions and millions of actual rapists that got away with it.
This is literally what you and many others in this thread are arguing
This is just too likely to be abused by spurned lovers/in custody battles/etc. The system sucks with regards to rape but extralegal avenues like this are NOT the answer. Really I don't know what the answer is, but I think a lot of it is educating men on consent. And I think us guys need to be more vigilant on each other with regards to how our friends and family treat women.
Social media just flat out gets things wrong too (see Boston Bomber). We don't want people forming lynch mobs, doxxing people, etc.
Of course it can be abused! 5-10% of rape claims are found to be fabricated. That's not that many compared to the number of rapes committed but it's still concerning.
And no, it's not worth the false positives. Our society is based off of the idea that it's better a guilty man go free than an innocent man be punished. Stuff like this undermines that basic tenet.
Social media just flat out gets things wrong too (see Boston Bomber). We don't want people forming lynch mobs, doxxing people, etc.
Of course it can be abused! 5-10% of rape claims are found to be fabricated. That's not that many compared to the number of rapes committed but it's still concerning.
And no, it's not worth the false positives. Our society is based off of the idea that it's better a guilty man go free than an innocent man be punished. Stuff like this undermines that basic tenet.
I can't speak for anyone else but I have never said such a thing at any stage. My entire argument is, relying on the internet to bring you some self achieved sense of justice is the definition of a slippery slope.
The system can and has been proven to be bad when it comes to dealing with crimes against women. Nobody is disputing that, but try and do something about it instead of taking the easy route of acting justifiably jaded.
Wondering what I do about it? I vote for the Australian Sex Party every single election. Their leader is a woman, formerly of the sex industry, whose entire platform centres around protecting women from dangerous situations involving prostitution and the porn industry, among other things.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Are there any other biological males in this thread besides me who are willing to say that they are OK with taking the burden of the potential of false rape allegations if it means more women can get justice?
On the list of things I have to worry about a false rape allegation is extremely extremely extremely extremely low on the list
On the list of things I have to worry about a false rape allegation is extremely extremely extremely extremely low on the list
Snarky❤;245288005 said:
I have been accused, that is my whole point. I had to live through my family and friends doubting me etc. It fucked up my life. For others it is far far worse then that, some actually get killed or beaten up.
Rape cases on both sides needs to get far better.
People thinking they would accept being accused of rape so real rapists get got more have not lived through the shit you get put through.
How do you suggest we fix a broken system that doesn't care about these crimes? Especially when you constantly have guys more concerned with false accusations than the bigger crime of actual rape
Naming the person who raped you is doing something about it in a world where every other avenue of recourse is extremely likely to not result in anything being done. Work towards long-scale social change is good and happening right now, but it still doesn't do anything for most rape victims right now who- by the time the social changes occur- will likely not even be able to prosecute under the new rules anyway because of statute of limitations.
So, while you haven't outright said it, the tangible end result of your argument is that ultimately women keep quiet about it.
Yeah I get it. It's a tough ask.
And yeah I get it, I'm a dude, I can't possibly put myself in the shoes of women who were assaulted and want justice.
And yeah, if my girlfriend said someone raped her, I'd raise hell to get that guy behind bars and honestly would probably resort to doing what Ingram is doing right now.
But that doesn't mean its a good, smart idea. It's illegal (not sure if technically illegal but...) and the other person can RIGHTFULLY sue for defamation. And likely win. Why go through with that just to get some revenge or personal justice.
I'd rather work to cure the source. Because the horrible reality is, many rape cases are VERY difficult to try in a court of law.
excelsiorlef
Member
You know that this group not existing wouldn't stop that tiny percentage from making false claims somewhere else right?
Like getting rid of this group doesn't prevent false accusations anyway
Like getting rid of this group doesn't prevent false accusations anyway
Since you literally linked to a thread to where none of that was presented... what do you expect?
Do you just make random bullshit as you go along and link things without thinking or reading them at all?
I'd say a bigger motivation is to warn other women so that it doesn't happen to them too.
benicillin
Banned
What if they actually did rape someone though.
Like I really like how we're all just assuming these groups are full of liars slandering people for the fun of it. Because acting like a rape victim is really fun.
Thanks for clearing this up. Support/private groups, I'm ok with. But more so ones that are professionally managed. Private facebook groups can be a little sketchy but I'd be a little more ok with that. Once you go public, that only hurts the victims chances at real justice.
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