excelsiorlef
Member
Absolutely true
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Shaming Rapists in private Facebook groups
- Thread starter Machina
- Start date
- Status
Absolutely true
It also disregards the number of times one person, just one person, coming forward and risking defamation liability to name names opens the floodgates for others.
This happened in my little hick town of 1400 people.
A police officer spend years assaulting women and girls, but just one girl came forward and then another and another and another. He was reported multiple times but it didn't matter.
Most reasonable people in this thread agree the system is ridiculously flawed, but can seem to understand the people that want those flaws to hurt victims less.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Literally the least likely scenario is that this will lead to a vast increase in false accusations while the mostl ikely scenario is that it'll lead to a much greater increase in rape prevention so why the hell are people so much more concerned about the former ITT?
In my life as a women I learned that being raped is the worse fucking thing that can happen, is the only crime where the victim put on trial, and the only one cops fucking ignore most of the time (aside from cops killing people, of course)
Today I learned that warning other women to stay away from my attack make me an asshole.
How About No
Member
Fuck anyone against this, and fuck the justice system for making this necessary in the first place
No, it isn't the same thing as outing the person on the Internet. I get your point and I think I'm ok with a private Facebook group where women can warn other women in their area or get support from each other. That's fine. It might save other women from becoming victims.
That's wholly different than a public lynching of someone who hasn't been convicted of a crime. Which is what the woman in the OP's article did.
benicillin
Banned
False rape accusations happen at the same percentage as any other crime, and that's only a percentage out of the rapes that are actually reported, not the ones that happen and are never reported.
But for some reason people are REALLY worried about false rape accusations.
Neverforget
Member
Y'all can use your free speech right, unless you are a woman calling a rapist a rapist in a private group after the justice system failed you like most of the women around the world. Nah, we cannot have that!
Me telling people in real life a fuck ton more public than a private Facebook group.
Netherscourge
Banned
In light of nobody having a good solution, we must take the word of the victim. Always.
Their credibility can be investigated after the fact, as can the credibility of the accused. But right off the bat, I will give the victim the benefit of the doubt.
Rape is a much more serious crime than wrongly accusing someone.
I'll stand by an alleged rape victim before I stand by an alleged criminal. Right or wrong, I have NO moral dilemma with that. As was the case with that woman who was caught lying, credibility can be investigated both publicly and within a trial.
It's much more important to uphold the 90% of legit claims than it is to prevent the 10% of false claims.
No system is perfect. But I like the odds in that system much better than just letting everyone walk free without any sort of scrutiny or investigation.
I'm black too. I don't have any more faith in the judicial system than you do. Hell, we're here because the judicial system fails rape victims constantly. And similarly to how I wouldn't mind a resurgence in traditional black panther tactics of policing the police since the system constantly fails black people, I don't mind the act of women telling people who their rapists are to make sure others have a chance to not suffer at the hands of shitty men who we just can't get off the streets because "better let one rapist go free" (which doesn't mean falsely accusing people in a court of law).
To me, when it comes to the gaps in society where the law isn't equipped to handle rampant abuses, I'm not content with telling minorities of any stripe to sit down with their thumbs up their asses. People should have the right to defend themselves and to survive when the state simply can't or won't provide the means to do so.
Why so little reporting?
Clearly it's because you have no trust in the system to help you. Again you guys need to mobilize. In force. I'm talking Black Lives Matter level engagement.
I want you to say you wouldn't name your rapist.
Sunster
Member
oh no, a lynching comparison.
benicillin
Banned
If you actually don't understand the reasons people don't report rape (this thread is a great example) you really shouldn't be talking about it at all. Educate yourself, maybe.
Because people think women lie about rape all the time? See: this thread.
As fucking awesome as BLM is, how does their existence actively protect the black people being abused right at this instant?
This thread is tilting the shit out of me because people are essentially arguing rape victims should shut the fuck up about it unless they can get a conviction, because somebody else might lie and the hypothetical liar's hypothetical target's life would be impacted in a big way. Like, don't publicly call out the actual rapist and warn his potential future victims, because without the law on your side you're contributing to false accusations. Somehow.
Prophaniti
Banned
That's a terrible analogy. You don't get the difference between $100 debt and rape accusations.
Sadly open to abuse and wondering how many innocent guys will get tarred in their local community because they've had a bad break up and someone though this a good form of revenge...
Still though as a tactic to prevent future rapes honestly this could work brilliantly. Imagine just knowing you may very well end up in a well publicised Facebook page if you did something horrible... Enough to scare away particular people who perhaps think they are untouchable.
I'm divided on this.
Still though as a tactic to prevent future rapes honestly this could work brilliantly. Imagine just knowing you may very well end up in a well publicised Facebook page if you did something horrible... Enough to scare away particular people who perhaps think they are untouchable.
I'm divided on this.
It doesn't, but what's the alternative? The ambush of police that happened in Dallas?
I reported my rape. It was almost as bad as the rape itself. The cops are asshole, the justice department are assholes, everyone involved has this attitude of "Yeah, you know you wanted it.". Btw, I was 13 I reported. That's why women don't report. We hear what happens when we do and nope the fuck out.
Agent Gibbs
Member
Nope it would be perfectly reasonable! I'd encourage people to do that
However that is vastly different from creating an effective list of names on a publically accessible website that is internationally available, were the condition of member ship is an email address, this is the distinction people are making. If you tell your friends and people you theoretically encounter socialising with your rapist, you are doing so in full view, you have to own your words and deal with any potential consequences. The rapist will be challenged and the likely hood is they will loose out in some way.
False accusation in the current legal system are rare because you have to have some real front/stupidity to go to police and make up accusations, let them investigate you including physically and provide legal statements - that does not apply on the internet!
On the internet and sites like, Twitter, Facebook, web forums, message boards etc you can set up an account, request to join said group, post some names and off you go.
Even if that account comes up getting banned for being fake, the posts it made on said group would remain.
You've basically created a croup that acts as an unofficial sex offenders register, where the only requirement to get a name on said list is to post a facebook comment from any facebook account that is a member.
Such a system will allow more victims or rape the freedom to report crimes without the fear the feel with the current system, but it also removes any checks on would be idiots who would make false accusations, be they malicious people, trolls, 4chan raids or people with mental health issues, to me it is a recipe for disaster.
now if said group was set up on the website of an established victim support group website, with some form of oversight to prevent trolling then by all means bring it on that's amazing
themaskedndi
Member
Rape victims have been charged and prosecuted for reporting the crime or testifying against their attacker, but yes, women should have complete faith in the legal system and never try to help each other.
Reports generally state that the false reporting rate for rape is between 2 and 5 percent, which is in the same range as false reports for most other felony crimes. (It is notably lower than the false reporting rate for car theft, which is around 10%.) However, rape victims are interrogated in a way that is unique to sex crimes when they try to report their assault. Both the public and law enforcement are more willing to assume that someone is lying about rape than burglary, larceny, or other felony crimes. Why?
Rape and sexual assault are heavily underreported, and that is largely because of the way society treats victims. If we actually treated reports of rape like reports of other crimes, maybe victims wouldn't have to resort to warning others in private groups. As is, "mob justice" is our best bet.
Between this thread and the USC thread I am convinced that GAF hates women as much as every other gaming site on the internet. It's so discouraging.
Reports generally state that the false reporting rate for rape is between 2 and 5 percent, which is in the same range as false reports for most other felony crimes. (It is notably lower than the false reporting rate for car theft, which is around 10%.) However, rape victims are interrogated in a way that is unique to sex crimes when they try to report their assault. Both the public and law enforcement are more willing to assume that someone is lying about rape than burglary, larceny, or other felony crimes. Why?
Rape and sexual assault are heavily underreported, and that is largely because of the way society treats victims. If we actually treated reports of rape like reports of other crimes, maybe victims wouldn't have to resort to warning others in private groups. As is, "mob justice" is our best bet.
Between this thread and the USC thread I am convinced that GAF hates women as much as every other gaming site on the internet. It's so discouraging.
As a victim I didn't report at first as I felt ashamed at what happened, I felt I had encouraged it to happen, I also felt no one would believe me. This is me at 11 btw.
Prophaniti
Banned
No. The alternative would be for the reinstatement of black panther style tactics of neighborhood watch, to let police know that we have them on lock and we will defend ourselves if they give us a reason to. The Dallas ambush was not that- it was an unjust act of cowardice on officers who hadn't done anything.
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
You have more of a right than anyone, the stigma against African American women pretty much makes cops chuckle in the face of a rape accusation, let me be clear I'm not against this method, I'm against the means at which it is done, someone with a vision should make a website or system for this. Facebook ain't the place imo. The % of rape accusations from black women is so deceptively low that it should be alarming.
Clockwork
Member
I can agree with this.
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
I'm more worried about someone thinking I don't pay back money I borrowed than possible false rape allegation
There's hard data on the everywhere and has been linked several times on the thread.
excelsiorlef
Member
You comparing this to the Dallas situation?
Basically this. Thankfully, since we do have free speech in this country, it matters fuck all what the naysayers think. If someone is falsely accused publicly, they have the same remedy anyone else who is slandered has - sue if you're prepared to prove the accusation is false. (Or just publicly refute it).
Considering that black men have literally been lynched because of false rape accusations, I'm comfortable as a black man making that comparison.
I said, private Facebook group is fine, or IRL conversations, also fine. When the group becomes public, or people use news media/etc. then I just am not comfortable with it. The Internet is a pervasive place where everything is searchable, where nothing really goes away, and people rush to judgment without all of the facts.
I believe that we should take rape accusations seriously, and of course we should stand by victims, but we are talking about cases where the system has declined to prosecute. Is the system shitty? Yes! But take a vigilante approach where it doesn't work is going to put innocent people in the crossfire, along with the guilty.
We have a system. It is failing victims, yes. But there is no second option.
guggnichso
Banned
Mob justice, even if it is on closed Facebook groups, is definitely NOT right. Yes, rape cases are hard to proof, yes, rape cases get dismissed on a regular basis, yes, perpetrators of rape all too often go free about their lifes without any consequences.
But on the other hand, let there be some malicious piece of shit person wanting some PoC dead or gone or without any kind of future. This also has happened all to often, one of the most prominent examples being Emmett Till.
There is reason to fucking rage against the legal system for failing to bring justice to so many victims of rape. There needs to be rage against that, there MUST be rage against that so the system is forced to change.
But taking matters in your own hands and using internet armies to destroy the life of some person just because someone tells you they are a rapist is NOT the way to go. This does not work in a constitutional state, because however believable you find the supposed victims account, you can STILL be played for all its worth.
And also, yes, theres some statistics out there that says false rape accusations make out something under 5% of all rape accusations. But its still something under 5%! Out of a 100 possible rapists, at least one might be innocent. So no, shaming people not convicted of a crime for a possible crime is not ok.
But on the other hand, let there be some malicious piece of shit person wanting some PoC dead or gone or without any kind of future. This also has happened all to often, one of the most prominent examples being Emmett Till.
There is reason to fucking rage against the legal system for failing to bring justice to so many victims of rape. There needs to be rage against that, there MUST be rage against that so the system is forced to change.
But taking matters in your own hands and using internet armies to destroy the life of some person just because someone tells you they are a rapist is NOT the way to go. This does not work in a constitutional state, because however believable you find the supposed victims account, you can STILL be played for all its worth.
And also, yes, theres some statistics out there that says false rape accusations make out something under 5% of all rape accusations. But its still something under 5%! Out of a 100 possible rapists, at least one might be innocent. So no, shaming people not convicted of a crime for a possible crime is not ok.
I bet it changes for PoC though
Prophaniti
Banned
So what gender do you identify as?Snarky❤;245293708 said:
But again, me telling a ton of people in real life is way more public than the internet. What if I lived in a small town and everyone knew the rapist? Would that make a difference?
Zeyphersan
Banned
I must not, please explain it to me
Just listen to what the people in this very thread are telling you. Go read some victim accounts of their treatment. Look at the OP of this thread where the victim was victimized again by police misconduct. Its all over and people have been trying to tell you.
Responding to an injustice with an extreme response? Yeah it's not unlike Dallas, just several degrees of magnitude less severe and doesn't involve guns (hello again America)
Royce McCutcheon
Junior Member
Yes. If you lived in a small town, why would you tell the internet anyway. Tell you friends who likely know the dude. You're seeking justice correct? Or prevention?
excelsiorlef
Member
So you're saying this is comparable to ambushing and murdering... cool cool.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
Well if it's legit I say good on them. If the system won't help you make a new system until the official system gets better,
I also say I would run someone over with a car if I was ever falsely accused of rape for some kind of revenge or gain though.
I also say I would run someone over with a car if I was ever falsely accused of rape for some kind of revenge or gain though.
While I agree with more official channels being set up, I must ask how do you make a website or system that bypasses the issue people seem to have with this, which is the very act of naming a man who has raped a woman yet either hasn't been tried in a court of law or has been found innocent regardless? The issue is the public naming at all.
Yes there's a history of white women falsely naming black men as rapists, but my theory on that is that it's another symptom of rape culture plus a heafty dose of racism. Say you are violently raped by a well respected member of the community in the 40s. You have to go to the hospital for injuries and you have two choices: name the well respected member and be tormented for the rest of your life, or say a black guy did it, because they are the boogymen.
I don't know the stats but I'm hoping it's happening less often now (that fucking asshole in the last thread with the GoFundMe notwithstanding)
Snarky(HEART)
Banned
Im bigendered and biologically male.
I am seeking other people to not be raped, even though the justice department failed me as it often does in rape cases. Me telling my friends in a small town that Brian or whoever raped me means everyone will know by sundown and ruin Brian's life, according to gaf. Way more public than the internet. So I'm an asshole for warning my friends.
Gossip culture is an ugly thing, whether it's a small town or social media.
- Status