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[Men_in_Boxes]

Wake me up when Sony is putting games on Xbox

Like MLB The Show, Destiny 2 and Marathon? Wake up!

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That's a reach. Toys to Life is a fad. Live service games have existed for decades, and will continue to exist in the long term. Yes, many of them will fail because the market can only sustain so many live services games at once, but the ones that do make it are wildly successful.

Similar to Toys for Life, all those guitar hero and rock band set ups were a fad too. Big sellers during that gen for a bunch of years then disappeared. I remember seeing those games on top online games played lists.

Googling it, there were more gadgets and games released during the PS4/X1 gen, but I dont think anyone cared.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

When the tide rises, it gets the lowest houses first.

You people act like XBox was run into the ground but it really wasn't. The market has weakened the position of the plastic box. That's why you see PlayStation throw so much support behind PC development now. Console has weakened immensely over the last 10 years. XBox was simply in the weaker position so the tide got it first.

The T Rex laughing at the extinction of the Stegosaurus doesn't realize the comet comes for him too.

Yes, console has weakened in the past 10 years but let's not act like it happened without reason, or that Microsoft (and more recently, Sony) didn't heavily contribute to it.

Don't pretend like Microsoft made all the right moves with XBO. They didn't. Hell they were making big mistakes near the end of 360. That's why they've seen Xbox console sales collapse recently.

Sony made mistakes with PS3 but then fixed most of them. If they never made those mistakes and continued with PS2 momentum-wise, PS3 would've probably hit 150 million sooner than the PS2 did. Sony started making mistakes with PS4 near the end of that gen, but some were in need of shifting to PS5.

Sony's biggest mistake now is they've been acting like Xbox is their only competition, and they've become too incumbent. They haven't really given much mind to what non-direct competitors have been achieving or pursuing, because they've been so focused on beating Xbox. Well, Xbox killed itself (as far as being a globally viable console platform's concerned) and Sony are getting drunk on wine & fat on food. They don't feel like they need to compete through innovating on things other platforms like Steam have been doing because....they aren't Xbox. So as far as Sony's concerned, if it's not Xbox, it's not a concern.

They're going to be proven quite wrong about that in due time, but yeah let's not pretend Microsoft & Sony haven't been complicit in some or many of the things that are affecting their own platforms today, for better or worst.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Yes, console has weakened in the past 10 years but let's not act like it happened without reason, or that Microsoft (and more recently, Sony) didn't heavily contribute to it.

Don't pretend like Microsoft made all the right moves with XBO. They didn't. Hell they were making big mistakes near the end of 360. That's why they've seen Xbox console sales collapse recently.

Sony made mistakes with PS3 but then fixed most of them. If they never made those mistakes and continued with PS2 momentum-wise, PS3 would've probably hit 150 million sooner than the PS2 did. Sony started making mistakes with PS4 near the end of that gen, but some were in need of shifting to PS5.

Sony's biggest mistake now is they've been acting like Xbox is their only competition, and they've become too incumbent. They haven't really given much mind to what non-direct competitors have been achieving or pursuing, because they've been so focused on beating Xbox. Well, Xbox killed itself (as far as being a globally viable console platform's concerned) and Sony are getting drunk on wine & fat on food. They don't feel like they need to compete through innovating on things other platforms like Steam have been doing because....they aren't Xbox. So as far as Sony's concerned, if it's not Xbox, it's not a concern.

They're going to be proven quite wrong about that in due time, but yeah let's not pretend Microsoft & Sony haven't been complicit in some or many of the things that are affecting their own platforms today, for better or worst.

The same could be said for the large typewriter manufacturers, Blockbuster video, and pager companies.

Yes, technically there was something they all could have done differently to improve their situations, but in reality the market dried up beneath their feet. I started noticing this when arena shooters kept flopping. "If only they did X, it could have been big like Unreal Tournament was." Once you hear this for the 20th failed arena shooter, you start to think "Maybe people have just moved on from that game type."

The market is the tide you can't see and it influences the boats much more than you realize.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Consoles are still around, but havent grown. Peak hardware was actually the Wii/360/PS3 gen. And especially so when console makers had handhelds. Nintendo consolidated their hardware strategy to one unit.

But still, gaming has been growing huge, but console makers havent grown. Even with Xbox sinking, PS and Nintendo systems cant even hit PS2 sales from 20 years ago.

PC has taken off. And mobile shot up like a rocket. A lot of gamers switched to those platforms.

 

[mayham2199]

They don't feel like they need to compete through innovating on things other platforms like Steam have been doing because....they aren't Xbox.

How has Steam been innovating?

 

[mayham2199]

Consoles are still around, but havent grown. Peak hardware was actually the Wii/360/PS3 gen. And especially so when console makers had handhelds. Nintendo consolidated their hardware strategy to one unit.

But still, gaming has been growing huge, but console makers havent grown. Even with Xbox sinking, PS and Nintendo systems cant even hit PS2 sales from 20 years ago.

PC has taken off. And mobile shot up like a rocket. A lot of gamers switched to those platforms.

I think things can turn around if AI game development really takes off and cuts down on resources and game development time.. I guess the question is will Sony and MS even be around when that happens. The gaming budgets\length is a huge part of the issue.

I guess they could also just make games half as long which IMO is what I would like to see. Start leaving people on serious cliff hangers and stop with the 80+ hour adventure. I don't get how Capcom can release a 10 hour game in Re2 and everyone loves it but another company does it and people get pissed it's to short.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

The same could be said for the large typewriter manufacturers, Blockbuster video, and pager companies.

Yes, technically there was something they all could have done differently to improve their situations, but in reality the market dried up beneath their feet. I started noticing this when arena shooters kept flopping. "If only they did X, it could have been big like Unreal Tournament was." Once you hear this for the 20th failed arena shooter, you start to think "Maybe people have just moved on from that game type."

The market is the tide you can't see and it influences the boats much more than you realize.

So there have been twenty console since the PS4 and XBO? Is that what you're trying to say? Because the analogy you just did for arena shooters doesn't work for gaming platforms that are built to last for 7/8 years.

How has Steam been innovating?

Integrated community forums, very open policy for game submissions lowering entry barrier for indies to get their games out to people, Steam Deck, transparent game data metrics measuring CCUs and other community metrics, etc.

They must be doing something right because they now have virtually all the 3P game support consoles had for Day 1 releases, when even 10 years ago a lot (especially Japanese 3P) would still skip Steam or not port games to it until many years later. Sony & Microsoft can't claim the same gains.

Consoles are still around, but havent grown. Peak hardware was actually the Wii/360/PS3 gen. And especially so when console makers had handhelds. Nintendo consolidated their hardware strategy to one unit.

But still, gaming has been growing huge, but console makers havent grown. Even with Xbox sinking, PS and Nintendo systems cant even hit PS2 sales from 20 years ago.

PC has taken off. And mobile shot up like a rocket. A lot of gamers switched to those platforms.

All true, but I just want to stress that it isn't because of those other alternative platforms themselves. If PlayStation and Xbox were offering what those people were looking for, they would've been the platforms seeing the gains.

IMO, SIE and Xbox/Microsoft Gaming got too caught up in battling each other, to notice big changes in the market early on and make changes to their own platforms accordingly to address them. And I think that's in big part because they have both fallen prey to the idea that if something isn't a direct competitor, then it's not a competitor.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

So there have been twenty console since the PS4 and XBO? Is that what you're trying to say? Because the analogy you just did for arena shooters doesn't work for gaming platforms that are built to last for 7/8 years.

I don't understand your question. Can you rephrase?