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"Shenmue, Final Fantasy VII and why we shouldn't entirely give in to nostalgia"
- Thread starter oni-link
- Start date
bananafactory
Banned
But climbing up to the Shinra building IS fun
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup I wanna run around as cloud and cast spells and shit. I cant believe theres people that want an ATB system to just be ported over from the original. Thatd be boring
A bit of nostalgia is okay, but wholesale nostalgia is not. There are FF7 fans who have been displeased with any Final Fantasy that came after FF7 as if FF7 was a perfect game. Letting nostalgia rule leads to stagnation and resistance to any new ideas stymies future success. It's not a direct analogy, but I think of those who think of the yesteryears of Ronald Reagan as a time of when the US was great, when in reality those years brought a lot of trouble for decades to come.
The author of the piece states that we shouldn't entirely give in to nostalgia. I agree with that. But I also think capitalizing on the nostalgia factor doesn't hurt, from a business perspective.
Is finding the negative the new big thing in the jurno circles? I can be hype to play remade versions and sequels to games I love. Much better than getting a yearly franchise with incremental updates leaving me basically just paying for the name + number.
Maybe this is fallout off the people who rated MCC so highly even though it was buggier than summer camp mattresses.
Maybe this is fallout off the people who rated MCC so highly even though it was buggier than summer camp mattresses.
Elfforkusu
Member
Shenmue 3 is nostalgia driven in the same way a great band getting back together to make more music is.
This isn't a remake, it's one of the GOAT game designers getting back into the game after a decade hiatus, back to finish what he started.
This isn't a remake, it's one of the GOAT game designers getting back into the game after a decade hiatus, back to finish what he started.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
But nostalgia is a good feeling.
It makes you all warm and fuzzy and reminds you of the good old times you had with video games.
It makes you all warm and fuzzy and reminds you of the good old times you had with video games.
Galactic Barret
Member
My man.
Thats every fan of any FF/game ever. There are FFVI fans whom swear its the best ever and not one has come close. Same with IX. FFVII gets singled out because its the most popular of them all.
People like MW2, but abhor all those that came before or after. Some think Bungie's Halo are perfect and like them more than 343i's. Thats called preference and there hasn't ever been anything wrong with it before, until FFVII gets brought up.
There is just a large, vocal fringe of fans that like to shit on VII because of how popular it is and that their favorites get overlooked. Its nothing more than jealousy.
Watching people going crazy just over the announcement of 2 games beginning development was a huge wtf am I on crazy pills moment. I agree with OP.
at the same time, it speaks volumes about the quality of games today. Year after year we get served up AAA flops until we are starving for just a scrap of hope that a game may once again be a truly AAA experience.
at the same time, it speaks volumes about the quality of games today. Year after year we get served up AAA flops until we are starving for just a scrap of hope that a game may once again be a truly AAA experience.
Acquiescence
Member
Totally worth it for the banter and Barret's endless complaining.
Theonik
Member
It reminds me of the time I could like video games without having to think how problematic they were.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
This is the guy who walks in while you're with a partner and makes the moment go away. Let it be. The new IP stuff will come. If anything companies have to prove themselves with better IPs. If a new IP sucks then we'll have our own category of games to enjoy.
Exactly my thoughts. I've replayed FFVII more than any other game in my life. It's like watching a movie as you said and every time I found or obtained something new in this game. And yes nostalgia plays a big part of it but often it's the small things that still amaze me. Some specific joke you forgot over the time and than laughing again as if you saw it for the first time. Or when you get older you understand some subtle things better than as kid. So saying FFVII has no replaying value is a little far streched from my point of view.
And to the concerns of not living up these nostalgia moments. It's a Remake and not a Remasters. For example Resident Evil Remake didn't get any "concerns" of how it could be any better than the original and I found it fantastic as probably everyone else. If Square would handle FFVIIr like Capcom did REmake I would be more than happy. All I want is updated AC graphic with maybe a full 3D world and towns (like FFXV), seamless battles, some new locations and expanded side quests and all is good. Heck, I wouldn't even mind if they get rid off the ATB system for a more action orientated battle system a la KH if it fits better.
Moon_frogger
Member
Shenmue 3 has nothing to do with nostalgia. It's an unfinished story. Not even remotely the same as ffvii. That's like saying people want George rr Martin to finish a song of ice an fire because of 'nostalgia' lol.
brandonh83
Banned
Yes, a remake here and there and a sequel = the entire industry.
Gusy
Member
Other M didn't meet expectations, but still kept the core values of what a Metroid game's supposed to be (At least from an IP standpoint, gameplay is another debate). I guess we have a different appreciation of how a brand is supposed to evolve. Would you be ok with Konami releasing a Castlevania dating sim?
Spin off or not, a cherished and loved IP should be treated with a little more thought in regards to the fan-base that has support it throughout the years.
I get having concerns about whether a FFVII remake would feel dated compared to current games. But as much as fans may want a faithful remake down to the last detail, honestly I have no doubt that they are going to update and streamline a lot of aspects of the game to modernize it. This game is going to be expensive and they are gonna do whatever they can to get both as many old fans and as many new fans as they can.
Same with Shenmue III, they aren't making a dreamcast game. I'm sure they'll be looking at games lake GTA or even Yakuza to see how they can update the mechanics while keeping the same feel.
Honestly out of the three announcements the one we should be most worried about feeling dated is The Last Guardian.
Same with Shenmue III, they aren't making a dreamcast game. I'm sure they'll be looking at games lake GTA or even Yakuza to see how they can update the mechanics while keeping the same feel.
Honestly out of the three announcements the one we should be most worried about feeling dated is The Last Guardian.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
I've seen Final Fantasy fans complain that they finished FF7 a handful of times and they aren't excited. That isn't exactly anyone's fault. It means people enjoy the game enough to play it multiple times and it's 18 years old. It doesn't mean the game is bad nor do they realize how the remake is going to play. ShenMue wasn't even finished. ShenMue has been alive thanks to fans and those who remember it. You're getting rid of our own enjoyment because you feel that it's taking over or it won't be worth it. If a game from 20 years ago can still make people play games then why worry about it? I'd like to see more and more games come back. It doesn't mean new IP's have somehow taken over and the next idea is going to be make people come back to gaming or make us better. I've found a lot of games in the past 10 or so years with zero replay value to them. Does this guy not see the linear cinematic titles or the crunching game design modern video games tend to have? Does he think we always want an open sandbox game made by 19 different companies? I personally don't see his point. Maybe the writer can't relate to the games? Maybe some people are mad because they heard about these games and they want to move on?
I don't think its right to criticize these projects when a lot of us felt like the gaming industry moved on and all they wanted to do was make easy to play games and have multiplayer attached to it. If anything we should want more of this. You don't need business men at the top taking away genres because they feel like the new western audience doesn't want a specific game. This is why we see less and less of what made games so great. We get these new ideas that only really satisfies a handful of people. I go back to older games that I played or that I missed out on. Sometimes I feel that the only thing the industry has done has been making games look better graphically. I think the idea to get rid of older franchises is stuck up and immature. History can very well repeat itself.
This guy sounds like he wants to replace Team Silent or any other classic development team with another Watch Dogz. Well good luck replaying Watch Dogz because that's what you'll get.
I don't think its right to criticize these projects when a lot of us felt like the gaming industry moved on and all they wanted to do was make easy to play games and have multiplayer attached to it. If anything we should want more of this. You don't need business men at the top taking away genres because they feel like the new western audience doesn't want a specific game. This is why we see less and less of what made games so great. We get these new ideas that only really satisfies a handful of people. I go back to older games that I played or that I missed out on. Sometimes I feel that the only thing the industry has done has been making games look better graphically. I think the idea to get rid of older franchises is stuck up and immature. History can very well repeat itself.
This guy sounds like he wants to replace Team Silent or any other classic development team with another Watch Dogz. Well good luck replaying Watch Dogz because that's what you'll get.
Weltall Zero
Member
Disgusting article. It only even makes sense if all your gaming intake is from day one AAA titles. It revolts me that people with so narrow a view and context of gaming call themselves "games journalists".
Cranberrys
Member
I understand your point and the part about the risks is a valid one.
But you can go buy/rent pretty much any movie you want be it DVD, Blu-ray. My Blu-ray player is also DVD compatible, I don't have to rebuy my entire DVD collection (well except for some classics like Back To The Future because I want to). There is some sense of continuum. It's the same with records or books.I have some very old CD's from the 80's, I can still play them on my CD deck. It's easy.
Video games not so much, you need the machine, you need the game, and the old games are not sold at your local store anymore because the lifespan of video games is very short even within the same console generation. It's like they are treated as cheap consummable and forgettable objects.
For me, history is important in video games, movies, music, whatever. I feel that bringing old games to the present for newcomers or old nostalgic fans like myself is a way to acknowledge the fact that video games have an history and therefore a past. They're not just consummable toys. Because if they where, why so many of us fell in love big time with FFVII, Shenmue or any old game ? You don't fall in love if it doesn't mean something. They are meaningful to each one of us for any number of reasons so I think it's important to bring some of them through the generations.
Yep, I get the feeling he's just secretly upset his own personal favorites aren't being remade.
I don't get this idea where there always has to be negativity about something that happens in gaming. It's like people can't just be happy that others are getting something they wanted.
With FF VII, it's definitely not taking the place of a mainline Final Fantasy (XV) and I think generally people have agreed that SE's output is going to look a bit better this gen as opposed to last gen.
And with Shenmue III, it's a game that had a very little chance of being made, from a developer (Yu Suzuki) who was pretty much about to retire (in my opinion). So it's like, get Shenmue III, or get nothing at all.
The negative shitshow continues.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Exactly. The manager for a GameStop only sees product and their customers. That's how a lot of people in the industry see it. I use to get frustrated at how GameStop marketed to people and these modern day journalist don't see it.
They have had a terrible time making it appeal to a core gaming community because they neglect their own past for business opportunities.
The reaction at E3 this year proves it.
I know, it's just crazy. Hundreds of games get released every year, and a handful of games get remastered (often outsourced or without affecting the main teams work on new stuff) and it's somehow a massive problem.
Of all the problems affecting the games industry, remastering the good games for non-bc consoles and their owners that can't play them otherwise isn't one of them.
It's an example I've used before but only around 10% of PS3 owners bought Uncharted 3 or TLOU. If you listen to people objecting to remasters, you'd think absolutely everyone had already played them, when only a small minority of PS3 owners did, let alone 360 owners who went for a PS4 this time around. Making the good games available for people who don't know about them or couldn't play them before, often at a budget price, is hardly a sin, but some gamers who consume everything on day one and tear through thirty+ big games a year think it's a problem if all content isn't exclusively aimed at them, all the time. I only play about four AAA games a year due to family life putting time constraints on gaming at home, and I'm glad that remasters of titles people tell me are awesome are coming out while we wait for those studio's newer work. In ten year's time, I might get around to catching up on what's good this gen
Having gaming's heritage available alongside the new is a good thing, and it's healthy for a medium to champion it's new work, but articles like this that claim it's some kind of competition with the AAA market as a creatively-suppressed underdog to old titles beloved by out-of-touch fanboys are a bit rubbish.
Slamtastic
Member
People with overinflated egos needing to broadcast their opinions as hyperbolic facts for validation have better success when the games aren't new.
In the case of older games you have the classic "clunky", "obtuse" and the like, because they don't like those games as much as some others and need you to say you feel the same so they'll feel better.
In more recent cases you get the backlashes. Mordor, Skyrim, MGS4, once all the people actually playing and enjoying the games have quieted down, a certain sect of negative types comes along to try and discredit all the time and enjoyment people put into and got out of the games. But then those fade away and the games are appreciated by their fans and discovered by new players.
Then a new entry is announced and it becomes all about how the series needs to be better because the last one was too much the same as the one before it and is "hard to go back to", and the hopes that they'll be able to recapture the "classic" series titles.
It's honestly like the "Windu Waika" meme. It's all cyclical. I wonder if in days gone by, you saw BBS and newsgroup posts about how stupid it was that OoT or FF7 or HL1 or what have you won GotY last year.
Theonik
Member
Pretty sure there was a thread about that a few years back collecting newsgroup posts that was hilarious in this way. You can also look the pre-neo GAF pages through various archives.
P.S. I was shitting on Skyrim since Day 1. Give credit where credit is due!
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Well, I can say I knew I'd be disappointed by whatever a FF7 remake turns out to be before it was ever announced. I'd like the same game but more difficult. They could keep the graphics, keep everything, just give me a reason to play through it. I can't replay it because it's so damn easy that it's outright unenjoyable.
Unfortunately, I expect that to be the only thing the remake maintains from the original - it will be easy as hell.
Unfortunately, I expect that to be the only thing the remake maintains from the original - it will be easy as hell.
A lot of people seem to disagree with you on Other M. I'm not going to argue it as I've yet to play it but in a thread right before E3 I was literally told in a reply that due to Other M the series had no dignity left to lose.
Castlevania was my favorite series and I didn't have an issue with most of the steps it took, aside from the reboot which flushed the series itself down the drain. This means when questionable/different titles like Simon's Quest, SoTN, 64, Harmony of Despair and Judgement came out I was open to all of them and not offended by the existence of them.
The only issue I had was with Lords of Shadow and that was because it meant the death of the rest of the series. Had it just been a spin off that existed separate to the main series I would have had no issue with if.
Federation Force is more like a Metroid Prime Pinball than a Lords of Shadow though. If you're not interested in the game you should be able to simply ignore it's existence without it leaving a mark on the series.
Having said that I'd be down for a Castlevania dating sim. Would IGA be returning to the series to develop it, his history with the series and experience working on Tokimeki Memorial would make him optimal IMO.
Also I think it would be cool if the next mainline game let you load the data and adjust the attributes of the main character based on who you ended up with. For example if your character ended up with the girl from the Belnades bloodline your descendant would have strong magic abilities and such.
WrenchNinja
Member
I played FF7 when it first showed up on the PSN store. This is well after people had decried it as overrated or worse than FF6 or Matsuno headed games. This after all of the shitty compilation spinoffs. Nostalgia isn't fueling my want or interest in the remake.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
Lifelong gamers now exist and have plenty of dispensable income. Nostalgia has major selling power, news at 11.
im buying all of those games
Santa sees your bad GAF posts, too. You ain't getting shit for Christmas this year, son.
What a weird point of view. Why does it matter? I hate FF7, but I'm still excited the remake is happening because so many damn people want it, and now they're getting what they've wanted for a long time (and will continue to want for some further time, I suspect). There's nothing wrong with a publisher giving a substantial audience what it wants. Something to keep in mind the next time you feel a "COD SUX" rant coming on, maybe.
real_slime
Banned
I think if you've got a serious issue with people wanting to dive into some nostalgia with things like the FF7 remake, then you are probably taking this industry of gushing virtual reality sensation juice too seriously.
It isn't like new games aren't going to come out anymore. We're talking about 2 games and one of them isn't even going to be a remake.
It isn't like new games aren't going to come out anymore. We're talking about 2 games and one of them isn't even going to be a remake.
Ploid 3.0
Member
FF7 on PS2 wouldn't have been a slight graphical upgrade. FF7 made after FF8 wouldn't have been a slight graphical upgrade. FF7 was made when S3 was first getting the hang of 3D and it shows. Whatever FF7 remake is, I doubt I will be disappointed because I just like the world, not too much of a fan of random battles, but I'll take it, they would really have to screw up to make me not like it (if it's a card game I will be pretty upset).
MrCunningham
Member
You know, I'm completely OK with this. Let Yu Suzuki finally finish his work.
CharminUltra
Member
Meh. Just more of the "zomg you only like it because of teh nostalgia!" BS.
The NES was my first console, and I've been playing JRPGs since then (Dragon Warrior 2 being my first ever.) I played FFVII long after IV, VI, and CT (as well as Ultima and other WRPGs). And guess what? I still had a ton of fun with it AND still want the remake.
So up yours.
The NES was my first console, and I've been playing JRPGs since then (Dragon Warrior 2 being my first ever.) I played FFVII long after IV, VI, and CT (as well as Ultima and other WRPGs). And guess what? I still had a ton of fun with it AND still want the remake.
So up yours.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
LOL. I love this gif so much. Thanks red shirt Shenmue guy for providing us with so much entertainment from the stream! ^_^
If it scores 8's, it will still have been well worth it. Personally I've completed FFVII a few times now, the last time only a few years back. Loved it just as much every time, so I've been looking forward to a remake for the longest time. I don't think 'nostalgia' alone is what makes the game incredible, even to this day.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
The more we donate the better the game will be. Simple as that. Honestly, every single person on GAF should be contributing, even if it's only $5. Shenmue deserves it.
Square, instead of following the increasingly cynical 'knock them out cheap and make it for mobile' gaming fad, are likely going to spend north of 100 million dollars making a triple AAA remake of a world and journey that was critically acclaimed but have themselves said it won't be a 1:1 retelling.
Yu, having been hounded for years, is making a 14 year old sequel to a Dreamcast series that was his labour of love yet commercially flopped and is only alive through constant requests over the years from the hardcore.
And yet...these negative, tempered articles continue to over-assess the joy of the E3 announcements and make it seem it's wrong to enjoy them and that somehow having a good time is naivety. I'm 33. I'm not naive. I know when it's right to apply critical thought and when it's time to just have a good time with your hobby.
Yu, having been hounded for years, is making a 14 year old sequel to a Dreamcast series that was his labour of love yet commercially flopped and is only alive through constant requests over the years from the hardcore.
And yet...these negative, tempered articles continue to over-assess the joy of the E3 announcements and make it seem it's wrong to enjoy them and that somehow having a good time is naivety. I'm 33. I'm not naive. I know when it's right to apply critical thought and when it's time to just have a good time with your hobby.
Lopping Shenmue into "nostalgia" bag is just dumb. Its a great series that was undone because they didnt have accumulate enough fanbase to spend big budget on something cultural and mundane to mainstream audiences. Also bad luck with the Dreamcast's death. A sequel isn't "hey we get to do that again" but continuation of an highly interesting series, who's core values werent picked up by any other game in the industry.
It's no more "nostalgia" than Last Guardian is nostalgia for 2005's Shadow of the Collosus. Yet somehow Uncharted 4 is relevant, necessary fun? Give me a break.
It's no more "nostalgia" than Last Guardian is nostalgia for 2005's Shadow of the Collosus. Yet somehow Uncharted 4 is relevant, necessary fun? Give me a break.