It's just idiots/12 year olds trying to rationalize how other people could possibly have different tastes than themselves. See also "x game is overrated" (lol) or "y has aged badly"
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"Shenmue, Final Fantasy VII and why we shouldn't entirely give in to nostalgia"
- Thread starter oni-link
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It's just idiots/12 year olds trying to rationalize how other people could possibly have different tastes than themselves. See also "x game is overrated" (lol) or "y has aged badly"
Cranberrys
Member
I don't see the problem with beeing nostalgic ?
From time to time, I love replaying old games that I fell in love with (Final Fantasy VII and Shenmue are amongst them) that doesn't mean I don't play new games.
It's like movies or books or records... I watch Back to the Future trilogy every year because I love it and sure it reminds me of my teenage years so there's nostalgia involved, but I still watch new movies as well. Nothing wrong with that.
From time to time, I love replaying old games that I fell in love with (Final Fantasy VII and Shenmue are amongst them) that doesn't mean I don't play new games.
It's like movies or books or records... I watch Back to the Future trilogy every year because I love it and sure it reminds me of my teenage years so there's nostalgia involved, but I still watch new movies as well. Nothing wrong with that.
Leafhopper
Banned
FF7 is a remake of a PS1 game, and Shenmue as a franchise doesn't have an ending.
Man people are trying to take the wind out of these announcements so hard just because.
Man people are trying to take the wind out of these announcements so hard just because.
It's funny that you say that, because there are some people who detest remakes/remasters with an all consuming passion "where are the new games?" , "everything is a remaster" , "where are all the new IP?" are comments that often dominate any thread announcing a new remaster. Didn't the Dishonored PS4/XB1 announcement even get boo'd?
I started FF7 up a few days ago. I played it 5 years ago and beat it but with the recent announcement i wanted to see it again. Honestly the janky slapped together nature of it I find endearing.
Despite that I feel like it is possible to make a remake that is true to all of the insanely goofy stuff going on in that game but with an updated look. Maybe it won't have Cloud backflipping into trains, but I really think they will do good by it. At the same time I hope they add some cool stuff.
Games like Resident Evil Remake, and Metroid Zero Mission both show that you can completely overhaul a games original scenario and end up with something that far surpasses the source material.
Despite that I feel like it is possible to make a remake that is true to all of the insanely goofy stuff going on in that game but with an updated look. Maybe it won't have Cloud backflipping into trains, but I really think they will do good by it. At the same time I hope they add some cool stuff.
Games like Resident Evil Remake, and Metroid Zero Mission both show that you can completely overhaul a games original scenario and end up with something that far surpasses the source material.
The problem isn't from time to time any more. Nostalgia has a powerful hold over video games. And since it's a business, fewer risks are being taken, because giving something familiar is a safer bet.
Your movie reference is valid, yet how many times are the Back to the Future movies being re-release into theatres, at the cost of new films?
Trigonometrize.
Member
I know nothing about the Shenmue fan swell but the Zero Escape swell is a step or two beyond desperate so it's certainly possible.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Final Fantasy VII I kind of agree on, but that's probably a combination of my disinterest in the game and my perception of FFVII fans.
Shenmue though, I'm actually kind of glad to see Shenmue get some kind of success. I've been watching a great LP series of the first game recently and its such a specifically weird work, especially in the context of 1999. Shenmue may be succeeding because of nostalgia, but that doesn't mean that the product is going to be any less interesting, and I find that valuable
Shenmue though, I'm actually kind of glad to see Shenmue get some kind of success. I've been watching a great LP series of the first game recently and its such a specifically weird work, especially in the context of 1999. Shenmue may be succeeding because of nostalgia, but that doesn't mean that the product is going to be any less interesting, and I find that valuable
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
shit is sad my man.
is what fans wanted, let them have it. we still got a whole lot bunch of new games if that isnt your thing. everybody wins here, why the whole conspiracy and negativity though i dont fuucking know
It's a fair point but I think it's reasonable to still be really excited for these games. I don't know anything about Shenmue but the crazy following it has tells me it's a pretty special game, and the idea of a reimagining of FF7 is freaking awesome because visuals and some other things with the way it's aged are really the main problems with the game.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Man you don't know movie culture at the moment if you think it doesn't have the exact same criticisms about nostalgia, especially in the current era of filmmaking.
Pyrrhus
Member
Why do so many people who write about games professionally, like the writer of this article, become so hellbent on proving how above it all they are? Who are they trying to impress, and if they feel the need to validate themselves so strongly, why are they in the field?
Shenmue 3 is the fulfillment of a promise made long ago by an old legend of the medium who has been through some rough times of his own in the wake of the original games. And now, a decade and a half after he was unceremoniously shuffled out of the industry, he's come in from the cold with a way to finish his story. If we can reward him with the same loyalty he's shown us. It's a compelling story in and of itself, even if you don't have a personal connection with the first two titles. The needless cynicism and desire to look smart and aloof to are actively harming the chances of a happy ending.
And seriously, can everybody who writes about this game just shut the fuck up about the sailors? That was a tiny part of the game that made sense in its context. People hold it up like some proof that they actually played the game, but it just convinces me they actually didn't or the game had no effect on them if that's the one thing they remember.
Shenmue 3 is the fulfillment of a promise made long ago by an old legend of the medium who has been through some rough times of his own in the wake of the original games. And now, a decade and a half after he was unceremoniously shuffled out of the industry, he's come in from the cold with a way to finish his story. If we can reward him with the same loyalty he's shown us. It's a compelling story in and of itself, even if you don't have a personal connection with the first two titles. The needless cynicism and desire to look smart and aloof to are actively harming the chances of a happy ending.
And seriously, can everybody who writes about this game just shut the fuck up about the sailors? That was a tiny part of the game that made sense in its context. People hold it up like some proof that they actually played the game, but it just convinces me they actually didn't or the game had no effect on them if that's the one thing they remember.
RichiRamjag
Member
I agree, these are great announcements and one that players have been asking for and now we've got this knucklehead telling us we shouldn't be excited or the concern trolls and the shenmue incident.
Overt pessimism and negativity is so tiring, I don't understand how people don't get sick of it.
What happened to just enjoying a remake for what it is? Nope, gotta have expectations and debates and controversy and conjecture. It's exhausting, so many people just ruin shit for themselves.
What happened to just enjoying a remake for what it is? Nope, gotta have expectations and debates and controversy and conjecture. It's exhausting, so many people just ruin shit for themselves.
This is a great article, I think he brings up some interesting points with his "when the two worlds [contemporary gaming and clunky game design from another era] collide" observation.
I think his little paragraph descriptions of the atmosphere in the two games-- standing on the train in Final Fantasy VII, and "better get home or Ine-san will be angry with me"-- encapsulated exactly the experience I had with both games.
I'm super curious to see how the developers of the two games-- but especially in Shenmue III's case-- straddle the "true to the original spirit" with "this needs modernization" line. The Shenmue formula is just just crying out for an "open world" design-- but then I worry it would turn into some cheesy, "do a billion boring side quest to clear icons off a map" grindfest like most modern open world games. I have analogous concerns with the FFVII remake.
Part of why I'm excited for both remakes is just to see how the developers handle this conflict!
I think his little paragraph descriptions of the atmosphere in the two games-- standing on the train in Final Fantasy VII, and "better get home or Ine-san will be angry with me"-- encapsulated exactly the experience I had with both games.
I'm super curious to see how the developers of the two games-- but especially in Shenmue III's case-- straddle the "true to the original spirit" with "this needs modernization" line. The Shenmue formula is just just crying out for an "open world" design-- but then I worry it would turn into some cheesy, "do a billion boring side quest to clear icons off a map" grindfest like most modern open world games. I have analogous concerns with the FFVII remake.
Part of why I'm excited for both remakes is just to see how the developers handle this conflict!
Cave Johnson
Member
They have a Roger Ebert. We got Polygon.
John Kowalski
Banned
Well, Polygon is still alive and kicking.
I don't understand why people are so hell bent on ruining the enjoyment of a huge spectacle like these 3 announcements at E3 this year either.
Japanese games are what I grew up with and hope they never phase them out in the AAA space. They make up for at least 80-90% of the games I play. The Last Guardian, FF7 Remake and Shenmue 3 are HUGE bonuses for me and anyone else that like Japanese games. Western games have taken over the throne, it seems, last generation. It's time for a comeback and a damn strong one at that. Sony wasn't kidding around when they said they wanted to usher in a new golden age of gaming.
Seriously hope we can get some older Japanese titles revived like Chrono, Mana, Legend of Dragoon, Wild Arms, .Hack or PSO (either in a remake form or through PSO2 finally hitting the West).
I should add that after this E3 as well, it has made me excited for a lot of western games too (Mass Effect, Mirrors Edge, Battlefront, For Honor, The Division, Ghost Recon) etc.... so that 90% will likely drop down to 65-75% instead of 80-90%.
Japanese games are what I grew up with and hope they never phase them out in the AAA space. They make up for at least 80-90% of the games I play. The Last Guardian, FF7 Remake and Shenmue 3 are HUGE bonuses for me and anyone else that like Japanese games. Western games have taken over the throne, it seems, last generation. It's time for a comeback and a damn strong one at that. Sony wasn't kidding around when they said they wanted to usher in a new golden age of gaming.
Seriously hope we can get some older Japanese titles revived like Chrono, Mana, Legend of Dragoon, Wild Arms, .Hack or PSO (either in a remake form or through PSO2 finally hitting the West).
I should add that after this E3 as well, it has made me excited for a lot of western games too (Mass Effect, Mirrors Edge, Battlefront, For Honor, The Division, Ghost Recon) etc.... so that 90% will likely drop down to 65-75% instead of 80-90%.
Roger Ebert's ideas are still alive.
Theonik
Member
This is a very unfortunate post to make.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
Sony would be wise to fund a .Hack and Sword Art Online Morpheus games.
I have more problems with HD remasters of games that have been released in the last 5 years (Last of Us, Gears, God of War, and dozens of other "collections") than FFVII and Shemue 3. Even Rockstar and it's decisions to release the various versions of GTAV separately, with graphical and feature enhancements, isn't great.
FFVII is near 20 years old, and with the plan of doing it in a modern graphical fashion (whether it's "Open World" or not.) Perfectly acceptable, even if fails to live up to the original. Metal Gear Solid 1 is almost the same situation (slight remake of a decade+ old MSX/NES game, but with "modern" graphics).
Shenmue 3, as some have mentioned, is the same situation as Half Life 3. Not just a nostalgia trip, but an attempt to continue on from a cliffhanger ending, a continuation of the story (even if I can't quite remember what it was.)
FFVII is near 20 years old, and with the plan of doing it in a modern graphical fashion (whether it's "Open World" or not.) Perfectly acceptable, even if fails to live up to the original. Metal Gear Solid 1 is almost the same situation (slight remake of a decade+ old MSX/NES game, but with "modern" graphics).
Shenmue 3, as some have mentioned, is the same situation as Half Life 3. Not just a nostalgia trip, but an attempt to continue on from a cliffhanger ending, a continuation of the story (even if I can't quite remember what it was.)
Never having played FFVII, I'm very much looking forward to it, because I couldn't get over the outdated graphics of the original. So for me, it's a really great thing to have this remake.
I would probably be ecstatic as well if a remake of a game got announced that I had a blast with in the past. Like Twilight Princess.
I would probably be ecstatic as well if a remake of a game got announced that I had a blast with in the past. Like Twilight Princess.
The media see a lot of attention and excitement being generated by these announcements and WHAT THEY DO NEXT WILL SHOCK YOU!
tldr: clickclickclickclickclick
Author railing on nostalgia recently posted this article: http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2015/mar/06/the-film-that-makes-me-cry-the-lion-king
k.
k.
TheRagnCajun
Member
I'm very aware of the possibility that the FFVII remake might not be good. But if it turns out poorly, it won't be because the original game was bad. Technical limitations aside, game holds up very well as an old school JRPG. Furthermore, the 'modern' formula for RPGs is getting a little long in the tooth. If you look at what Bioware is doing, its been essentially the same thing since KOTOR. If gamers are at the point where they are ready to go back and play isometric point and click rpgs (Divinity, Pillars) then I think we're ready to remake a classic JRPG.
7DollarHagane
Banned
But shenmue 3 is a sequel to a 15 year old game people have asked for forever and its got the same creator behind it.
How can this be considered a bad thing or somehow negative.
I am more skeptical of FF7 because I want a game that plays similarly to the original just with difficulty increased and better dialog/plot cohesion.
What we will probably get is a more action type game like crisis core.
How can this be considered a bad thing or somehow negative.
I am more skeptical of FF7 because I want a game that plays similarly to the original just with difficulty increased and better dialog/plot cohesion.
What we will probably get is a more action type game like crisis core.
Also wanted to iterate, good post.
BadAss2961
Member
Shenmue is an unfinished story, the sequel needs to happen. A remake, not so much.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
I can't believe this hasn't been posted yet:
Galactic Barret
Member
Its a remake, not a reboot.
OT:
This is the only part of the article I agree with. How is it nostalgia (on my part, at the very least) when I still play and enjoy the game til this day? Pole-hopping going up the Wall Market wall is their example of the game being clunky/unfun? You gotta do better than that.
The press REALLY needs to stop trying to temper the fans' expectations. Its starting to come off as cynicism and its detrimental as fuck, especially to Shenmue III.
Rapscallion
Member
Final Fantasy 7, maybe, but nostalgia isn't driving Shenmue 3. People have been clamoring for a sequel since the 2nd one ended. It's a closure to the storyline, if anything.
Nightengale
Member
Good.
Let devs exercise their full creative palette made possible by current tech.
I can understand the feelings of the conservatives, but I will always trust the developer to do the right thing, especially one where they're driven by the ambition to outdo themselves.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
Yep. Not expecting something amazing and revolutionary, but something in the same vein of the previous game that hopefully concludes the Lan Di story. Seems like the person who wrote this hasn't played Shenmue at all and/or doesn't understand why fans want it.
Exactly.
The games are gonna be 20+ years apart.To expect nothing but a visual upgrade is baffling.
They devs are gonna spend so much money on it too.They're not gonna limit themselves to HD assets.
Galactic Barret
Member
I'm one of those conservatives, but I agree with this general statement. I trust Nomura and the rest of the dev team to do right by us fans/'conservatives' while making fresh changes.
Its the liberals(?) that scare the fuck out of me. I'd rather new, interesting changes than an almagation of different series' systems mashed together in some crazy frankenstein experiment.
I hope the developers are on internet blackout.
Muffdraul
Member
I can agree with him about FFVII. It's one of my favorite games of all time but I've never been on the remake bandwagon. Most I've ever asked for is a re-translation. A huge part of the game's charm was its bizarre mid-90s awkward in-between stage style. So many of its feels simply won't translate over to a modern engine as seen in the trailer. FFVII Remake might turn out to be a great game in its own right, but I predict it's going to be a great lesson in "be careful what you wish for."
But Shenmue 3? That's a game that was meant to exist years ago and fell through. Totally different situation. So shut up, dork at the Guardian.
But Shenmue 3? That's a game that was meant to exist years ago and fell through. Totally different situation. So shut up, dork at the Guardian.
VARIA
Member
Resident Evil: Remake is a perfect example of how you do it.
No nostalgia glasses there, the game is fucking great and justifies the necessity for good remakes of classics.
I would love it if FF7 remake would have animated pre-rendered backgrounds similar to REmake. I think it would look amazing and still retain that cinematic feel.
No nostalgia glasses there, the game is fucking great and justifies the necessity for good remakes of classics.
I would love it if FF7 remake would have animated pre-rendered backgrounds similar to REmake. I think it would look amazing and still retain that cinematic feel.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I don't agree that remakes of old games can't live up to the original. HeartGold/SoulSilver are better then original Gold/Silver. So much so that people don't even recommend the originals anymore, and a lot of people consider the remakes to be the best games in the series.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
WTF? : /
entremet
Member
Again, why is gaming always down on nostalgia?
Using nostalgia in art isn't something new. It's been done for thousands of years.
Heck, I've even seen chefs use nostalgia to make their dishes.
Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LaVzxHIR4Y
Using nostalgia in art isn't something new. It's been done for thousands of years.
Heck, I've even seen chefs use nostalgia to make their dishes.
Relevant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LaVzxHIR4Y
Buttonbasher
Member
I started Shenmue over the weekend, and am almost done playing it for the first time. I'm having a wonderful time, no nostalgia required.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Yeah, dude needs to speak for himself. While I play and like FFVII I remember the flaws it has primarily because I consider it among the weakest FFs, but to something more positive that gives me nostalgia, I haven't been disappointed with any mainline Mario game I've played since the first or any Smash Bros. game I've played since the first.
10/10 post.
indigo-cyclops
Member
Heaven forbid us fans of something be allowed to have a resolution. Do you not partake in entertainment and media? How it's described is irrelevant, because fans and creator alike were never even given the chance for a conclusion.
Boothisman.gif