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Shinji Mikami's THE EVIL WITHIN |OT| Where's everyone going? Tango?

Again, wanna talk spoilers, do it in the appropriate thread. Dismiss criticisms by not even addressing them isn't a proper way to discuss something, btw.

What are "spoilers", exactly? This whole thing started because we just had a guy crying the game was ruined for him because somebody said question about chapter 5 boss. Not what the boss looked like. Not what the strategy for the boss was. Not what the environment was, or context in the narrative, or how long the chapter was, or what color the boss is...just the fact that there was a chapter that had a boss in it.

At that point, ANYTHING can be considered a spoiler. Whats the point of the OT if you have to spoiler tag every damn little thing?
 

antitrop

Member
Anyway, finished Chapter 5. Nice to finally get some time with the game, did a full run from Chapter 3 onwards. NIce and lengthy. Nice and tense. The penultimate battle of the chapter,
where you had to take down Laura was pretty fun. I like boss battles that don't just suck up your ammo. But once I worked out I could just camp on top of the body she's about to spawn on, it became a little bit too lax. I do wonder if that's the last we see of her. I'd be happy if someone told me with a simple yes or no.
Chapter 5 boss spoiler:
You'll see her again, boyo

Chapter 3 and 4 were phenomenal, this game truly is special. I'm taking my time with this baby, I'm really pleased with it so far.

Yeah, they go so well together. I feel bad for anyone that gives up on this game on Chapter 2. =/
 

Nemesis_

Member
What are "spoilers", exactly? This whole thing started because we just had a guy crying the game was ruined for him because somebody said question about chapter 5 boss. Not what the boss looked like. Not what the strategy for the boss was. Not what the environment was, or context in the narrative, or how long the chapter was, or what color the boss is...just the fact that there was a chapter that had a boss in it.

At that point, ANYTHING can be considered a spoiler. Whats the point of the OT if you have to spoiler tag every damn little thing?

I think that's a good point, and I don't want to go into a spoiler thread and have something spoiled for me from a further point in the game than where I am.

Chapter 5 boss spoiler:
You'll see her again, boyo

Awesome, I was worried. I thought it was a bit
anti-climactic after they marketed her so much in all the trailers and stuff

But now for a break, I realised just before the end of Chapter 5 that I'm alone in the house tonight so I need to somehow forget everything I just played so I can get a good night's sleep ._.
 

Gurish

Member
What are "spoilers", exactly? This whole thing started because we just had a guy crying the game was ruined for him because somebody said question about chapter 5 boss. Not what the boss looked like. Not what the strategy for the boss was. Not what the environment was, or context in the narrative, or how long the chapter was, or what color the boss is...just the fact that there was a chapter that had a boss in it.

At that point, ANYTHING can be considered a spoiler. Whats the point of the OT if you have to spoiler tag every damn little thing?

I "cried" cause i knew when Bosses will appear throughout the game (not just one episode) + some specific chapters spoiler like
You are meeting and playing together with Joseph at Chapter X
,+ someone posted a GIF of a new enemy
invisible
you think it's not spoiler-y knowing all this info? give me a break.
 

Ateron

Member
What are "spoilers", exactly? This whole thing started because we just had a guy crying the game was ruined for him because somebody said question about chapter 5 boss. Not what the boss looked like. Not what the strategy for the boss was. Not what the environment was, or context in the narrative, or how long the chapter was, or what color the boss is...just the fact that there was a chapter that had a boss in it.

At that point, ANYTHING can be considered a spoiler. Whats the point of the OT if you have to spoiler tag every damn little thing?

Well, that is a bit extreme. I won't be pissed if someone tells me there is a boss in chapter 5. Bear in mind that I'm arguing against a different kind of spoilers. Not the fact that someone says there's a boss coming, but rather how you can cheese it easily. It has been happening throughout this thread and even for regular enemies (in my post above I've spoiler tagged on of those instances - you have to agree that knowing what to do in that part lessens the tension almost completely). This game lives on the tension it creates, anything than empowers the player (in this case knowledge on how to cheese enemies and bosses easily) severely impacts said tension.. That's all I'm saying. I don't care if people say there was a boss at chapter 5 and it was a bitch, or that the matches are one of the best resources available and you shouldn't waste them willy nilly. But revealing strategies unmarked in kinda shitty, imo. Once you see you can't unsee.

I know I'm bitching a lot about this, and I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be confrontational, it might come off as such but in written form things acquire a different tone.
 

Nemesis_

Member
I "cried" cause i knew when Bosses will appear throughout the game (not just one episode) + some specific chapters spoiler like
You are meeting and playing together with Joseph at Chapter X
,+ someone posted a GIF of a new enemy
invisible
you think it's not spoiler-y knowing all this info? give me a break.

The first piece of info can be assumed anyway, I'd be surprised that anyone thought that wouldn't happen. The second is kind of a bit of a bummer to be ruined about but the context of when they're introduced will still probably take you off guard.
 
It's really not hard to use spoiler tags accordingly and it doesn't destroy discussion in any way if spoiler tags are used as long as people indacte to what point or aspect of the game the spoiler refers to. Plenty of people so far doing it right by mentioning the chapter and so on.
I'll continue to use spoiler tags appropriately myself.
Tough shit if some of you are annoyed to click open the black spoiler tags to read the stuff or are too dumb to use spoiler tags correctly.

Of course, if you already consider the amount of chapters as a spoiler then no one can help you here.
 

antitrop

Member
Keeper Spoiler going ahead, so if you aren't up to that, don't click this next spoiler

He throws his fucking head at you to respawn in the same room as you.....THAT IS SO FUCKING COOL

Well, not exactly.
There are barbed-wire safe heads already lying all over the place. He just snaps his own neck to destroy the body he's currently possessing to allow him to manifest in a different safe. One that's already right behind you.

But you're right, that scene was extremely fucking cool.
 
Man this spoiler topic really brings out the true character of some gaf folks here. Just be a bit more careful is all they are saying. Not spoiler mark everything because it could be a spoiler. Some of you are going to the extreme here.
 

hey_it's_that_dog

benevolent sexism
Why is it so hard for example to write "Chapter
5
Boss is crazy!

Or you can say "I'm at chapter 5,
damn, that boss is crazy!

Just don't get into specifics, you can write general impression like this game is awesome and i really enjoyed chapter 3, but anything specific like bosses, enemies and weapons should be blocked and people can choose if they want to read it or not, it's really not that hard.

Your first example is barely less of a spoiler and your second example doesn't work because how would the reader have any idea what is in the spoiler tags? Is it a question about strategy, items, or an enemy/boss spoiler? If I was also on ch 5 there are some cases in which I'd want to read that spoiler and some where I wouldn't.

The only reasonable solution is for spoiler sensitive people to bail. The discussion can't proceed without excessive burden otherwise.
 

Gurish

Member
The first piece of info can be assumed anyway, I'd be surprised that anyone thought that wouldn't happen. The second is kind of a bit of a bummer to be ruined about but the context of when they're introduced will still probably take you off guard.

It can be assumed, but you don't know when, and when i tell you exactly when you will fight each and every boss it's a bummer, and knowing gameplay spoiler like
fighting alongside Joseph
suck as well.

I really don't get what the problem with saying I'm at chapter 5, how
do i deal with this boss/ or how awesome is this boss!
, I'm not telling you to block all your message, just specific parts.

And you can freely post general impressions ("this game is great, episode 10 was legendary!") and general tactics (like what you should upgrade, matches are important etc..) without much problem, just anything specific- mark.
 

Nemesis_

Member
Well, not exactly.
There are barbed-wire safe heads already lying all over the place. He just snaps his own neck to destroy the body he's currently possessing to allow him to manifest in a different safe. One that's already right behind you.

But you're right, that scene was extremely fucking cool.

I don't know why I read this but now I'm excited as fuck.

I'm especially interested to see how
he will translate as playable in the downloadable content

Since I'm still relatively early on does anyone have any tips for the future chapters? What to upgrade? Anything obtuse the game doesn't explain properly (but should)?
 

antitrop

Member
I don't know why I read this but now I'm excited as fuck.

I'm especially interested to see how
he will translate as playable in the downloadable content

Since I'm still relatively early on does anyone have any tips for the future chapters? What to upgrade? Anything obtuse the game doesn't explain properly (but should)?

Even if you read my spoiler, when you get to that scene, I still think you're going to say "OH MY GOD THAT WAS SO FUCKING AWESOME, DID YOU SEE WHAT HE JUST DID?!".

My brother was watching me play, he got a great kick out of it, too.

His opinion on that boss fight:
"The Keeper is a dick."
 
Yikes, looks like I walked in on an awkward situation 0_0

Just wanting to ask something about Chapter 7's enemy...

Are these the Two-headed monsters I've heard about? Head explosions doesn't seem to kill them sometimes and they seem immune to Flash bolts or bottles
 

Danielsan

Member
Finished the game today. Didn't care too much for chapter 11 and 12 (though there are some good parts in 11). Chapter 13 and 14 were amazing, and sadly the game ends on a dud. Took me over 16 hours and 72 deaths on survivor.

Had an absolute blast playing this game and it's definitely up there for GOTY consideration. There are some lesser chapters here and there (the aforementioned chapter 11, 12 and 15 in particular), but they are completely outweighed by all the awesome chapters.

Also, I think
Box man/The Keeper
deserves a spot in the list of best horror game enemies. Not quite the level of Pyramid head, but damn close.
 

Gurish

Member
Your first example is barely less of a spoiler and your second example doesn't work because how would the reader have any idea what is in the spoiler tags? Is it a question about strategy, items, or an enemy/boss spoiler? If I was also on ch 5 there are some cases in which I'd want to read that spoiler and some where I wouldn't.

The only reasonable solution is for spoiler sensitive people to bail. The discussion can't proceed without excessive burden otherwise.

I'm not sure you are serious, you are at chapter 5 but don't want to know about boss fights but do want to know about items? what the hell man?
If you are on chapter 5 just don't reveal chapter 5 spoiler marks, it's really not that hard and you are trying too hard to find some obscure example.

Someone can say "need help in chapter 5" and than spoiler tagging the rest of the message regarding a boss fight, you shouldn't enter it unless you finished chapter 5, believe me there will be plenty of people in this thread that could help him.
 

Ein Bear

Member
Just started Chapter 9.
Holy shit, a mansion level!?

I love this game so much. Will wait for Bayo 2 on Friday before I pull the trigger on calling it GOTY... But I'm pretty confident it is.
 
Yikes, looks like I walked in on an awkward situation 0_0

Just wanting to ask something about Chapter 7's enemy...

Are these the Two-headed monsters I've heard about? Head explosions doesn't seem to kill them sometimes and they seem immune to Flash bolts or bottles

You can always kill them by headshot but you have to shoot at the right head (literally the right head I believe).
 
Is the double barreled shotgun noticeably different from the standard one in any way? Aside from the ammo count. I still haven't bothered to put in the code that came with the game, but upon realizing it adds new kinds of bolts I'm gonna download it later.
 

Ateron

Member
Your first example is barely less of a spoiler and your second example doesn't work because how would the reader have any idea what is in the spoiler tags? Is it a question about strategy, items, or an enemy/boss spoiler? If I was also on ch 5 there are some cases in which I'd want to read that spoiler and some where I wouldn't.

The only reasonable solution is for spoiler sensitive people to bail. The discussion can't proceed without excessive burden otherwise.

I get what you're saying, there isn't really a "clean" way to talk about the game without spelling out some things..but then, what's the purpose of spoiler threads and why should we have them? They would only make sense in games where the ending doesn't have closure and people could discuss their theories and such. That is interesting to me, but there have been games where people just said: Finished it. Loved the game, hope we can play as him/her again in the sequel! That alone tells me that the main character of that game is gonna live, even if the game might tell me otherwise. I saw this happen more than once on some big hitters last year and such.

Maybe something like

Chapter 5 spoilers:
it's awesome

If i'm at chp. 6 I can read without an issue.

When people write Chapter
5
spoilers are bad, cause I'm left in the dust,not knowing what they're about to spoil. Best thing to do is not click at all, so many of those posts go unread, and less people reply to them cause their fear getting spoiled. But the far worst are those

Chapter
5
spoilers: That motherfucker is weak against lightning, and that horde alongside him can be sniped from above, near the lever with the spear trap!

I don't know WHEN it will happen, but I will recognize it when I see it. And I will have a fool proof strategy completely laid out for me to use without having to think on my own. It's like cheating, really.
 

Grisby

Member
Yikes, looks like I walked in on an awkward situation 0_0

Just wanting to ask something about Chapter 7's enemy...

Are these the Two-headed monsters I've heard about? Head explosions doesn't seem to kill them sometimes and they seem immune to Flash bolts or bottles
I've had good success with harpoon bolts. Headshots seem to work better.
 

antitrop

Member
Is the double barreled shotgun noticeably different from the standard one in any way? Aside from the ammo count. I still haven't bothered to put in the code that came with the game, but upon realizing it adds new kinds of bolts I'm gonna download it later.

If you hold down R2, it will fire off 2 quick shots. Or you can just tap R2 to fire one shell, I think? I haven't used it much, aside from a little bit in Chapter 3.

You can't upgrade it, only the normal Shotgun, so it quickly became worthless, to me. (Halfway through Chapter 4ish)
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
I "cried" cause i knew when Bosses will appear throughout the game (not just one episode) + some specific chapters spoiler like
You are meeting and playing together with Joseph at Chapter X
,+ someone posted a GIF of a new enemy
invisible
you think it's not spoiler-y knowing all this info? give me a break.

The thing about that enemy type is it was publicly shown constantly in publisher-backed official videos. What constitutes as a spoiler for someone will be wildly different as someone may have intentionally gone on a blackout while some other guy only watches every official trailer and talks about things shown in it.

I agree that a lot of stuff should be spoilered, but expecting 100% of the people that post about how much they liked a chapter with a post like "chapter 10 was
cool
" or something that feels like a minor thing to someone isn't really gonna happen, since most people wouldn't even have it in the back of their mind that it's a spoiler at all. But, it is true that seeing a constant flow of people thinking certain chapters are great will set an expectation if you're not there yet, but that's just a natural part of a discussion forum where a lot of people contributing to a topic and some move through a game much faster than others. It's also a no-win scenario at times, like the Tales of Xillia 2 thread had some people actually complaining that the entire thread page by page was basically loaded with black bars and that people should move to the spoiler thread, but the discussion was about something mid-late game and obviously you can't just randomly go into a thread that's open season mostly focused on endings and try to discuss something while trying to dodge endgame spoilers

Something that seems more obvious as a blanket obvious example would be not to post an embedded image of the actual post results screen since the game visually shows bosses/monsters since I saw that happen and probably have a good idea on what the final boss looks like based on it. Or people that just post an entire post coated in black so you start to unravel it at the start to see if there's context and it's just randomly talking about some final level shit out of nowhere.
 

Ein Bear

Member
Is the double barreled shotgun noticeably different from the standard one in any way? Aside from the ammo count. I still haven't bothered to put in the code that came with the game, but upon realizing it adds new kinds of bolts I'm gonna download it later.

It's more powerful initially, but can't be upgraded. I've been using it so far (have just started Chapter 9) so I can focus all my upgrade goo on my pistol and stamina.
 
Will shinji leave the Bethesda now? Lets hope so.

I dunno, it seems like Bethesda gave this game completely fair treatment. I saw a healthy amount of marketing for it and it certainly wasn't rushed out. The biggest issue from working with them seems to be that his team were not comfortable working with idtech5 and felt the need to modify it heavily.
 

antitrop

Member
In was a little disappointed by
The Keeper
. Fantastic character design, but underwhelming to fight.

It's a great place to farm up enough green gel to go into Chapter 9 with the upgrades you want to have.
I think I spent about 45 minutes fighting him, but eventually my bolts did end up outpacing my mechanical parts, and I had to just end it. Really enjoyed running around and disarming his traps and shit.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Well Akumu mode is "interesting", because
syringes still drop and are placed as well
. Not sure if that was an oversight, but it seems kind of dumb.
 
Will shinji leave the Bethesda now? Lets hope so.

Tango, like MachineGames, is owned by ZeniMax. Its not like Platinum Games where they're a privately owned developer who can work for whoever, its more like a Clover Studios situation. They both have a very similar size of 60+ employees and probably had no choice in the matter of using id tech 5.

If they continue to make games for them, and I hope they do since Wolfenstein and TEW are the kind of meaty, 12-hour single player action games I like to see more of it, I'm gonna hope id tech 6 isn't as bad as its fifth iteration.
 

Ein Bear

Member
It's a great place to farm up enough green gel to go into Chapter 9 with the upgrades you want to have.
I think I spent about 45 minutes fighting him, but eventually my bolts did end up outpacing my mechanical parts, and I had to just end it. Really enjoyed running around and disarming his traps and shit.

I tried doing this, but got my ass kicked every time I tried disabling his traps. Only managed to make about 10k out of him... I need to git gud. :(
 

-MD-

Member
I was under the impression that The Evil Within was to be Mikani's final game anyway. Or has he backed away from that in more recent interviews?

Mikami said that his first game for Tango would be the last he would direct himself, in part to create opportunities for others.

"I can only last for so long handling both director and company president duties, and besides, I want to give our younger developers a chance," he said. "Knowing that, of course, makes me want to put all of my experience, my energy and everything else I've got into this game. I'm pretty lucky that [Bethesda] was willing to accept that, too. Too many publishers are only interested in the very near future, after all."

Those comments led to reports online of Mikami planning to retire as a director, which he says didn't go over well with higher-ups at Bethesda and may not end up being true.

"I probably shouldn't have said that," says Mikami. "My bosses were pretty upset. That was something I decided before I started Tango, that the next project would be my last. ... I was thinking back then that I would have to spend more time managing the studio and training people rather than directing. But now because Tango is part of Bethesda, I have less management overhead. So I have more time to get involved with a game than I originally thought I would."

At this point, Mikami says he doesn't know who will direct Tango's next game. It might be him. It might be someone else at Tango. In his interview answers, he bounces back and forth between his desires to lead projects and to give team members chances to lead their own.

.
 
You can always kill them by headshot but you have to shoot at the right head (literally the right head I believe).

My right or it's right? lol

I've had good success with harpoon bolts. Headshots seem to work better.

I'll probably need to start upgrading those... They were pretty powerful early game against normal Haunted, but now they don't seem to even slow down the tougher guys when I whip it out for them.
 
I was under the impression that The Evil Within was to be Mikani's final game anyway. Or has he backed away from that in more recent interviews?

I recall people saying that he wants other directors to work on Tango's games.

My right or it's right? lol

I'll probably need to start upgrading those... They were pretty powerful early game against normal Haunted, but now they don't seem to even slow down the tougher guys when I whip it out for them.

Your right.

I also recommend upgrading the harpoon bolts. They deal massive damage when upgraded to at least level 4. When upgraded this far it will only take a couple harpoon bolts to take out even some of the thougher enemies in the game. And they're cheap to craft as well.
 

antitrop

Member
I was under the impression that The Evil Within was to be Mikani's final game anyway. Or has he backed away from that in more recent interviews?

He's had pretty much no downtime as a Director since Vanquish began development, right? I hope he'll come back to give us another game, sometime, but I expect him to take a break, at least.

I don't know how he found time for Shadows of the Damned, though I've never played that game, and I'm not really familiar with his overall involvement in that project.
 

Ateron

Member
He is the founder and CEO of Tango and the studio is owned by Bethesda. Seems unlikely unless the have the money to buy themselves out.
But the game turned out pretty well and they even delayed it to get more work done on it.

Sometimes I wish Sony could approach them out and give them a blank check. This game shows their worth nicely. All it needs is a bit more polish and better tools for them to work. Bethesda gave them a fair shake, marketed the game aptly and gave them the opportunity to try out a risky genre nowadays, so I can't fault them on this one. But I feel that if Tango could get that Sucker Punch treatment (more funding, better tools), they could really make something even better.

Or maybe something like Demon Souls/Bloodbourne. Give them the funds and technical help and let them create what they want to create. But, since they're owned by Bethesda it will never happen though. I'm happy with what they created here, the only thing it's kinda lacking is that extra level of polish that they couldn't deliver (cause of funding/time constraints or maybe cause they were "forced" to work with an engine they're not confortable with yet, and is poorly documented in japanese). Hope this sells well enough to warrant a sequel, it would be a shame if they don't sell enough.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Just finished.

21 hours. 99 deaths.

Easy GOTY. Def be in the top 5.

Love those post game rewards!
Congrats mate, gonna get back to it as soon as possible, the game is easy my GOTY already.
 

Big_Al

Unconfirmed Member
He's had pretty much no downtime as a Director since Vanquish began development, right? I hope he'll come back to give us another game, sometime, but I expect him to take a break, at least.

I don't know how he found time for Shadows of the Damned, though I've never played that game, and I'm not really familiar with his overall involvement in that project.


I'm not sure of how big his involvement with Shadows Of The Damned was but the director of that was Massimo Guarini.
 
I really can not understand the love of this game in comparison to the RE franchise, Resident Evil 4, Sillent Hill and Alan Wake.

The game is cumbersome at best. Unbalanced controls. Responsiveness that suits the PSX era and cheap deaths that makes it feel like you are doing everything wrong, while it is the game itself that truly excels in ruining your experience.

I had plenty of experiences where the character would just downright refuse to climb over a window, climb on a ladder or go down one. It adds an unnecessary tension because I am constantly cursing at my TV screen; 'MOVE YOU MOFO!'

Granted. There have been a few scenarios where it does show its true horror roots, but..

I just know there will be a next encounter where the unresponsive controls will cause me to panick because the character itself does not do something as simple as climbing stairs, or activating a trap on the get-go.

Average score of 7.5 seems to be spot on. It is no masterpiece. Not by a longshot.
 

kodecraft

Member
He's had pretty much no downtime as a Director since Vanquish began development, right? I hope he'll come back to give us another game, sometime, but I expect him to take a break, at least.

I don't know how he found time for Shadows of the Damned, though I've never played that game, and I'm not really familiar with his overall involvement in that project.

Shadows of the Damned is not Mikami's game, why do people keep thinking it is? It doesn't feel nor play like one, that's evident in RE4, Vanquish and TEW.

Mikami was creative producer on Shadows of the Damned, I think if he did anything, he phoned it in. Shadows of the Damned has more Suda51 influence than Mikami.
 
The game is cumbersome at best. Unbalanced controls. Responsiveness that suits the PSX era and cheap deaths that makes it feel like you are doing everything wrong, while it is the game itself that truly excels in ruining your experience.

I'm not sure if I follow what you mean by unresponsive. In general if I performed an action next to the appropriate context sensitive place, it would go through just fine. I press X at a window (assuming it's open) and he climbs through, X in front of a ladder and he climbs up it.
 

Ateron

Member
I really can not understand the love of this game in comparison to the RE franchise, Resident Evil 4, Sillent Hill and Alan Wake.

The game is cumbersome at best. Unbalanced controls. Responsiveness that suits the PSX era and cheap deaths that makes it feel like you are doing everything wrong, while it is the game itself that truly excels in ruining your experience.

I had plenty of experiences where the character would just downright refuse to climb over a window, climb on a ladder or go down one. It adds an unnecessary tension because I am constantly cursing at my TV screen; 'MOVE YOU MOFO!'

Granted. There have been a few scenarios where it does show its true horror roots, but..

I just know there will be a next encounter where the unresponsive controls will cause me to panick because the character itself does not do something as simple as climbing stairs, or activating a trap on the get-go.

Average score of 7.5 seems to be spot on. It is no masterpiece. Not by a longshot.

How far along are you? I'm asking because it felt that way for 2 chapters for me, but after the third chapter the controls and combat "clicked" and it really felt like a looser version of RE4 combat. It's one of those games you just gotta get warmed up to.

I was like that at first, everything seemed janky and unresponsive but once you get into the meat of things the combat works vey well. Upgrading sprinting is a must, it's all I'm gonna say. Gives you more leeway to be aggressive and run away when things get out of hand.
 
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