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Shogun 2 |OT| This is Total War

markot

Banned
Whats better, Vassaling or just taking over provinces?

>.<

And the AI is pretty good, they know to attack weakpoints from what ive seen...

And I use my main dude for every attack pretty much, mainly because for awhile he was my only cavalry and they were great at messing shit up for me...

Hmm, also, this might be a stupid Q, but you know how you move individual units and right click drag to get them in the formation and facing where you want, is there away to move multiple units the same way without them automatically forming next to each other?

So like if I want to move some archers and those pikemen dudes in formation, archers front, pikeys behind, can I move them so they move together and in formation, but also get them to face the way I want and remain infront/behind teh way I set it up >.>? If you know what I mean....
 

InertiaXr

Member
markot said:
Whats better, Vassaling or just taking over provinces?

>.<

And the AI is pretty good, they know to attack weakpoints from what ive seen...

And I use my main dude for every attack pretty much, mainly because for awhile he was my only cavalry and they were great at messing shit up for me...

Hmm, also, this might be a stupid Q, but you know how you move individual units and right click drag to get them in the formation and facing where you want, is there away to move multiple units the same way without them automatically forming next to each other?

So like if I want to move some archers and those pikemen dudes in formation, archers front, pikeys behind, can I move them so they move together and in formation, but also get them to face the way I want and remain infront/behind teh way I set it up >.>? If you know what I mean....

Select the units that you have in the formation you want, and bottom left hand corner there is a Toggle Group button that will keep relative positioning of units the same as you move them around. I know exactly what you mean, I use it all the time.
 

bjb

Banned
Loving the game so far, however..

I've had -a ton- of crashes thus far. Mainly when loading after battles and/or saves. It's been really frustrating, especially not being able to credit towards epic fights.

I guess I'm not alone, either. Quite a few people complaining about the loading screen freeze on the Shogun Official Forums.
 
bjb said:
Loving the game so far, however..

I've had -a ton- of crashes thus far. Mainly when loading after battles and/or saves. It's been really frustrating, especially not being able to credit towards epic fights.

I guess I'm not alone, either. Quite a few people complaining about the loading screen freeze on the Shogun Official Forums.

Only one crash for me so far and that was during a naval battle.

Which is fine, since I suck horribly at those.
 

Volodja

Member
Bought the limited edition today and started a Short Campaign on Normal with Uesugi.
Aroung 40 turns in I have 7 provinces and an army of around 3500 men divided in 2 big armies and a few Units here and there to control provinces that are still a little rebellious.
I don't really know if that's good enough to face the people around me.

As far as battles go I haven't seen anything wierd yet like the open field dancing I've had to suffer in Empire so that's good.
Also the game seems much faster to me than Shogun 1 but maybe it's my imagination?
I don't know, as soon as the enemy charges they rain on my front line in a matter of seconds and cavalry is really damn fast.

I've also had my first crash, at the very end of a battle between 2000 of my men and 1000 buddhist rebels, the last unit had just 18 men remaining and the game froze, crashing to desktop with no error after a minute of struggle.

markot said:
Hmm, also, this might be a stupid Q, but you know how you move individual units and right click drag to get them in the formation and facing where you want, is there away to move multiple units the same way without them automatically forming next to each other?

So like if I want to move some archers and those pikemen dudes in formation, archers front, pikeys behind, can I move them so they move together and in formation, but also get them to face the way I want and remain infront/behind teh way I set it up >.>? If you know what I mean....
If I recall correctly the way the Total War system works (I do it out of habit when I play the games but if I have to actually think about it I get a little more lost) if you select two units they will appear in a line if you right click and drag, however if you just right click they will mantain the formation even if you change the direction they face.
You can group them, if you do even right click dragging will mantain the formation.
Hopefully I remember it right.
 

InertiaXr

Member
I'm pretty early on in my Chosokabe campaign, and it feels like Samurai suck. I had a unit of Yari Samurai go against a unit of rebels Yari Ashigaru almost exactly head on 1 on 1 and barely came out ahead in men killed/lost. The stats seem to indicate and I thought they are both spearmen but Samurai are suppose to be like 'better' Ashigaru? Maybe I'm using them wrong but all the Samurai units so far seem to be marginally better and cost a shitton and regen dudes out of combat slow as hell.
 

Semblance

shhh Graham I'm still compiling this Radiant map
I'm a lot worse at this than I realized, I keep having to restart lawl. The aggressive AI doesn't make things any easier either. You blink and there's a wall of soldiers knocking on your door.

But I'm loving this. Such a fantastic game.
 
Once the realm divided thing triggers, is there a way to stop everyone hating you? I am maintaining my position only through using missionaries to make a string of rebel buffer states between me and the hordes of enemies (a good tactic btw :D)

Archers can be really damn effective, I have most of my armies be about 50/50 now. They turn siege battles into an absolute bloodbath. One invasion attempt ended with me losing 50 men and my opponent losing almost 2000. They seem indiscriminately lethal.

I am thinking I'll play Chosokabe next game, as I really like archers. That said, there is little more satisfying than a decent flank charge with katana cavalry. What is the point of Yari cavalry? Anti-Cavalry cavalry?
 

TheExodu5

Banned
Tried Empire for a bit. The battles look beautiful with 4x AA and SLI support (not a drop below 60fps), but damn, the interface blows. The campaign map is also not nearly as nice as Shogun 2.
 
Argh, got that random bug that makes all your trade ships not sink with the trade point and not be able to move. I was up 2000 a turn, now I am down to -160 :( blows so hard. The same thing would happen in Empire, surely they could figure out a way to fix it by now?!
 

Veritas_

Member
OttomanScribe said:
Archers can be really damn effective, I have most of my armies be about 50/50 now. They turn siege battles into an absolute bloodbath. One invasion attempt ended with me losing 50 men and my opponent losing almost 2000. They seem indiscriminately lethal.
I'll second this, the archers are just brutally powerful.

Somewhere around turn 15 I made contact with European traders and was granted a unit of Matchlock Ashigaeru. Love these guys, been marching them around just trashing people. First battle I used them in they forced an enemy sword samurai unit to rout after two volleys. It was pretty much an exact recreation of the final scene from the Last Samurai. Just took my fourth city which has a trader port, now I can recruit them at my leisure.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Any history or period buffs know what those weird blue bags cavalry have on their backs are?

shogun22011-03-1902-17n744.png


Seems like it would be pretty non aerodynamic.
 

Mojojo

Member
Finally won on normal.. The last turns were a zerg race, and i had to restart several times because of rebellions happening and some alliance treachery if i wasnt careful .

But It seems the AI on normal never disembark troops from boats? (which helped me as Chosokabe , once conquered , Shikoku was never threatened by sea , otherwise I would have lost a long time ago).
And yea, getting the black ship asap is a must for sea warfare .

Still need a looot of training on normal campaign :p.
This game is superb, easily a GOTY contender imo.

zoner said:
So... UI, presentation, OST, and graphics of the year?

Because I'd sure say so
I agree :)
 

Sethos

Banned
Me and my mate was trying out siege battles. First one as defender I got annihilated completely, I didn't understand why you'd be so outnumbered, you felt so overwhelmed. I decided to go all archer and I'm specialising in archers right now ... It was pure child's play! He hit me on two flanks, took one archer group to hold off one attack and 2 groups plus my general to kill the second.

Took me exactly 2,5 minute to kill and route his first attack, sent them over to the main bulk of the force and within 3 minutes they were all running away or had been killed. Archers are definitely the way to go when defending, my god. No point in going toe-to-toe in that mode.

Didn't lose a group and none of them were even to the point of routing or getting wiped out.
 
How much better are the visuals than for example those of Nappy: Total war?

It's impossible to tell in videos and screens, can somebody give me an answer? I'm a graphics whore and I must know.

I think nappys graphics kick arse.
 

Sethos

Banned
Igor Antunov said:
How much better are the visuals than for example those of Nappy: Total war?

It's impossible to tell in videos and screens, can somebody give me an answer? I'm a graphics whore and I must know.

I think nappys graphics kick arse.

A bit better I'd say, more polished and refined. Except there's no native AA yet, DX11 mode is also AWOL. Both something they'll patch in eventually. Lack of native AA does hurt the game though, with all the fine details on soldiers.
 

StarEye

The Amiga Brotherhood
I bought Rome: Total War when it was on sale, and while it seems like a great game, I can't really stand the "controls" or UI if you will.
 
OttomanScribe said:
Argh, got that random bug that makes all your trade ships not sink with the trade point and not be able to move. I was up 2000 a turn, now I am down to -160 :( blows so hard. The same thing would happen in Empire, surely they could figure out a way to fix it by now?!
Have you just become Shogun? The same thing happened to me when I became Shogun. I had to sink my entire trade fleet because I couldn't move them.

The best tactic in Shogun 2 is to take all the provinces you need but don't take Kyoto and become Shogun until 3 or 4 tuns near then end. Just have a couple of big armies near-by waiting on the doorstep. Become Shogun early and the game becomes a real headache.
 
Have you just become Shogun? The same thing happened to me when I became Shogun. I had to sink my entire trade fleet because I couldn't move them.
Not Shogun but now that you mention it, it coincided with the 'Realm Divided' Event. Which is triggered when you get a certain amount of reputation I think.
 

Semblance

shhh Graham I'm still compiling this Radiant map
Wow, what. All my save files seem to have magically disappeared. I was pretty deep into a campaign, too. Sweet.
 

InertiaXr

Member
GuiltybyAssociation said:
Wow, what. All my save files seem to have magically disappeared. I was pretty deep into a campaign, too. Sweet.

Wow that sucks. :( Wish this had steam cloud support I love that feature.
 
Damn... lost all your save files? :( I'm 24.5 hours into one. I would be somewhat saddened if it got wiped I gotta say.

In other news, captured Kyoto, despite the lack of trade absolutely crippling my economy. Everyone was at war with me anyway so it didn't make any difference. Now I am facing off against the Date and Takeda in the regions around Kyoto.
 

Sethos

Banned
It's both awesome and frustrating that despite this game features massive armies clashing and numbers is one key factor to the game, the real deciding factor in the outcome of the battle is in the margins. Like, just did a drop-in campaign and we were both evenly matched, completely similar I'd say and the battle was very matched until he tried to flank my general with his and I won that outcome ... And by that 'luck' factor, his entire army just flees in an instant and I win the battle.

I mean, had his general won that outcome, he'd have won right then and there. Moral is an awesome key factor but it can be a bit too much at times. A dead general or something demoralizing should slowly creep through the army, weaken them, lower their attack speed and points for an example until they are basically crippled, not freakin' make them surrender THE SECOND he dies almost.

Game is fantastic, battle needs some tweaking for multiplayer to be spot-on.
 

markot

Banned
I hate it when my troops flee >.<

I was defending a castle with liek 4 units against 15 or so, and I was going ok, but then I sent my spear unit out to meet some archers, but he laid an ambush and suddenly 2 units of his spearmen came out from hiding to meet them from the back, the spearmen fled before they even engaged any enemy, then they slowly won.... I was kicking so much ass too >_>
 

Almighty

Member
Slackbladder said:
Have you just become Shogun? The same thing happened to me when I became Shogun. I had to sink my entire trade fleet because I couldn't move them.

Does this only happen to trade fleets that are already in the trading spots or all trade ships?
 

InertiaXr

Member
Can anybody explain to me the use of Metsuke? I've never actually played a Total War campaign very far and never bothered to use spys and rakes from Empire which was my first Total War.
 
How crazy am I for hoping that CA will some day release the LE chess set in the US?

You don't want it. I got it. It's not worth it.


As to Metsuke, they are 'secret police', if they oversee an army they protect it from ninja sabotage and priest/monk demoralising. If they oversee a town they boost repression and protect the town from sabotage or rebel incitement.

Probably their most useful benefit is that they have the ability to make a free attack on a monk, metsuke, geisha or ninja. This has a chance to either put em in gaol for a time or to kill them outright. This is different from what a ninja or whatever does because it doesn't cost any money.
 

Ysiadmihi

Banned
My framerate is pretty low on the campaign map no matter what settings I change, but actual battles run great. Is this normal? I don't remember it being choppy in the demo.
 

Sethos

Banned
Could someone enlighten me. The first ( lowest ) tier of spear infantry have a deploy spear ability to use against cavalry charges. The second tier, supposedly better against cavalry charges ( First tier are 20 points, second are 25 points versus Cavalry charges ). Yet the second tier's don't have a deploy spear ability? They will just stand around with that spear pointing up, not much good I'd say? So does that mean you need to unlock it, is it a bug or do they just automatically get the bonus without deploying?
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
Damn Christians keep rebelling in one of my towns, going to need to get some secret police to keep them in order.
 

raphier

Banned
Ikuu said:
Damn Christians keep rebelling in one of my towns, going to need to get some secret police to keep them in order.
Raphieria urges for restrain. We condemn aggression against civilians.
 
The game is really awesome and it runs like a miracle on my PC. No crashes, fast load times, WAY better world-map performance, fast AI turns.
THIS is how a Total War game should be released, lets me almost forget Empire!

I like this era much more than musket-era, also bow-units seem well balanced this time.
 

Steeven

Member
I am a hardcore Total War gamer who began to dislike the series after Medieval II. I bought Empire once on a Steam sale and although I like the theme, it takes forever to end turns which keeps me from playing. How's this with Shogun 2? Does it still take at least 30 seconds to end a fucking turn? If not, I might be interested.
 
Steeven said:
I am a hardcore Total War gamer who began to dislike the series after Medieval II. I bought Empire once on a Steam sale and although I like the theme, it takes forever to end turns which keeps me from playing. How's this with Shogun 2? Does it still take at least 30 seconds to end a fucking turn? If not, I might be interested.
Like I said above, the whole performance, especially on the world map, is WAY better than in Empire. Even the AI turns are really fast.
 

Darkkn

Member
Bow units seem way overpowered in castle defense. Had maxed out enemy army attacking my castle against my maxed out army and AI got destroyed like 100 to 2000 units dead. It really had no chance since i had like 6 units of bow samurai and bonuses from tech tree to accuracy etc.

Only thing i'm not digging about this game is the fact that campaign only has one victory condition(yeah, makes kinda sense since game is about combat), but i would have liked more CIV-like victory conditions as an option.

Can't wait for dx11 patch to arrive, game looks already drop-dead gorgeous but some AA would make wonders. Hopefully this is going to be one of the few dx11 implementations that is actually running well, even for lower end dx11 cards.
 
Almighty said:
Does this only happen to trade fleets that are already in the trading spots or all trade ships?
In my case my trade fleet was in the trade spot near China. I clicked them on but could not move them anywhere and all my trade vanished. If you have a trade fleet not on a trading spot you may be okay.

I don't quite understand the victory conditions you're given between Long Campaign and Domination. In a Long Campaign you need to take 40 provinces (for example) and become Shogun by 1600. In a Domination Campaign you have to take 60 provinces and become Shogun by 1600. Why choose Domination and make it more difficult for yourself?
 

Bossman

Member
Slackbladder said:
I don't quite understand the victory conditions you're given between Long Campaign and Domination. In a Long Campaign you need to take 40 provinces (for example) and become Shogun by 1600. In a Domination Campaign you have to take 60 provinces and become Shogun by 1600. Why choose Domination and make it more difficult for yourself?

Because some people like the extra challenge.
 

Facism

Member
I can't overstate the importance of Vassal states and willfully letting certain provinces rebel when you become shogun or get the Realm Divide. Vassal states lift some pressure off by waging their own campaign or cutting off military access for enemy factions over certain geography.

Capturing a province and then letting them rebel not only preserves your army to be used elsewhere, it leaves the province in the hands of a full army stack of rebels that harasses anything that goes through it, whilst never leaving the province to expand. Effectively, it cut any passage from the direction of the new rebel province towards my territory.

Eventually you'll have to deal with the vassals before they get too big, but it should be a simple job of mopping up once you've cleared your frontiers of major threats.
 

Veritas_

Member
Darkkn said:
Only thing i'm not digging about this game is the fact that campaign only has one victory condition(yeah, makes kinda sense since game is about combat), but i would have liked more CIV-like victory conditions as an option.

I'll second this. I had an epic 2 part battle for Kyoto in the Summer of 1575. I converged my entire army on the capital, 4 generals each with ~4000 men. During the siege, the Shogunate sallied an army to meet me outside the castle. The first battle was an absolute massacre, his veteran/xp units utterly crushed my army. I only pulled off a Pyrrhic victory when my reinforcements came in and managed to kill his general, forcing a rout. It's incredibly painful to watch the unstoppable domino effects of all your units routing after never having lost a single battle for the entire campaign.

While he managed to eliminate one of my 4 armies, I pressed on the siege, and won it rather easily. Had the AI not pulled out of the castle, I probably would have lost the battle just due to the fact that it takes so long to get reinforcements in time.

Unfortunately I'm a total dofus, and forgot that I need 25 provinces to win (I only had 17~). So while my campaign is technically a loss, I still consider it a moral victory for taking Kyoto.

A few tips/points.

- Metsuke (secret police) are ridiculously useful. When I moved from my Chosokabe island to the mainland, I just bought out every province I could. I managed to take 6 in total without losing a single man. Also, being able to buy out invading armies can quickly give you a numerical advantage. Try and level up your agents quickly by giving them lots of easy tasks like bribing a small single unit enemy force.

- Careful with your cavalry. I never got the higher tier units, but Yari and Light cavalry have a tendency to get 'stuck' in the unit you tell them to charge. Be very careful if you're flanking enemy yari. I lost at least one unit to a failed hit and run flank where my cavalry got stuck in the enemy unit, and subsequently beat down.

- Archers are your best friend for attacking castles. March them up first, engage the enemy range units until one side routs or runs out of arrows, then go in with your infantry. Also, when scaling the walls, try and attack from as many sides as possible, avoid bottle necking your forces on one wall. A favorite tactic of mine is to move my ashigaeru yari to engage the main defending force, then sneak some katana units around back. My yari will hold the defenders in place while the katana units hit them from behind.

- Know when to use 'rally'. Nothing sucks more than using it to save 1 unit of archers when everyone else decides to pack up and bail 30 seconds later.

- Upgrade your unit types - This was probably my biggest problem. Ashigaeru units are awesome early game, but you have to switch to Samurai / high tier units as soon as you can. Yes they are expensive and take more time to recruit, but ashigaeru units rout like there's no tomorrow. I learned this the hard way.

- Always be observant of faction movements, have metsuke/ninja keeping an eye on places. That massive defending force you've been watching may get taken over by another faction, who suffers great losses to claim it. Move in when the situation dictates.

- Chosokabe specific, consolidate your island as fast as you can, then prep an invasion force for the mainland. I took way too long to get off the island (somewhere around 1560) and I ended up failing because of this. Alliances are a great way to keep your back protected.

Going to start a new campaign, so fun.
 
Darkkn said:
Bow units seem way overpowered in castle defense. Had maxed out enemy army attacking my castle against my maxed out army and AI got destroyed like 100 to 2000 units dead. It really had no chance since i had like 6 units of bow samurai and bonuses from tech tree to accuracy etc.

Only thing i'm not digging about this game is the fact that campaign only has one victory condition(yeah, makes kinda sense since game is about combat), but i would have liked more CIV-like victory conditions as an option.

Can't wait for dx11 patch to arrive, game looks already drop-dead gorgeous but some AA would make wonders. Hopefully this is going to be one of the few dx11 implementations that is actually running well, even for lower end dx11 cards.

The AI tends to spread everything out and attack all sides at once. This seems bad because it puts all of the enemy towers into play at once and allows the enemy to engage with his entire force. If you attacked a defending player in a concentrated area while sending ninjas around the back (or something similar) you could probably do much better).
 
Ikuu said:
Damn Christians keep rebelling in one of my towns, going to need to get some secret police to keep them in order.

They do seem like the rowdiest religion... monks are pretty useful to place in Christian dwellings which need converted.
 

Ikuu

Had his dog run over by Blizzard's CEO
I NEED SCISSORS said:
They do seem like the rowdiest religion... monks are pretty useful to place in Christian dwellings which need converted.
How effective is it? They keep rebelling even with some Metsuke, it's not a huge deal since they get stomped if they try and take the town.

Chinese Electric Batman said:
Played Multiplayer today.

I've never played a more buggy, shoddy and broken game.
The only issues I've had with multiplayer is occasionally it just hangs when it finds a player, apart from that I've had no issues at all.
 
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