-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
SHOOTEMBER Wrasslin' 2016 |OT2| Sometimes You Just Need to Shoot for a Double
- Thread starter Fox318
- Start date
How does the Hart scale go again?
1-10 on in-ring ability, promo ability, and look.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
You're a generous man Zach.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Fucked up that TNA outlived the LOLTNA wiki
Uno Venova
Banned
So a 6, 10, and an 8.
Not bad.
When you hear things like Ziggler is actually a bad wrestler that's when you know you have to filter out when personal emotions are spoiling someone's opinions.
Uno Venova
Banned
I'm sorry Data.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Look gets an 8?!???
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ
JesseEwiak
Member
Sorry, cutting some third rate knock offs of every crazy guy ever while wrestling for CZW doesn't make you a great promo. Yes, by indie standards, where nobody is a good promo, Ambrose is a good promo. But, Ambrose never has had a promo 1/3 as good as Cena's on Talking Smack.
Also, wrestling can have dumb opinions about wrestlers just as much as anybody else. Everybody loved Lance Storm because he was safe in the ring while to me, he was boring as crap. I mean, Bret Hart once said Melina was one of the best workers in the company.
I don't think Ziggler is a bad worker, but yeah, he's highly overrated. Like Ambrose, they're both perfectly fine in the ring. It's just sort of silly that the same people who claim Ziggler is some great talent are the same people who think Roman can't work becuase he doesn't of moves or sell every move with seven flips like Ziggler does.
Uno Venova
Banned
He had a promo in the same ballpark just the week before. I found Cena's to be a little long and meandering but he's got a lot of credibility and authority so he can smack down on Ambrose pretty hard. I don't expect Dean to have a better rebuttal.
Jesse! He's turned down the overselling for a minute now. Roman is also serviceable like Dean is, with a much more played out style of selling for most of the match and pulling out a spear.
I said I'm sorry.
But seriously, aside from needing more muscle, there's nothing wrong with the crazy hair and leather jacket look.
SallyIsNow
Banned
It might not be too late to shave his head. Have Bray drop some stuff on him or something.
SallyIsNow
Banned
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would say Cena is a 10.
Both are probably a 8. Jericho has only just recently started being consistent on a weekly level. It doesn't help that a lot of his promos rarely feel like they build a feud. Cena's an 8 because of writing. He's got a natural feel on the microphone(which he fucking should as long as he's been doing it) but his delivery is rarely good. He can play up an audience though. He just never got a storyline to truly shine in. He never got his 'What you're looking at right here is the New World Order' chance.
Bray and Dean are probably 7s, partially due to writing partially due to how their promos drone on. Miz is in the same level. Joe is in the same level due to his face promos before the heel run. Miz and Joe are both having a good streak though and could go upwards in my eyes.
Like you got to keep in mind, when I say 10. I'm thinking like Jake Roberts or Macho Man or someone of that ilk.
JesseEwiak
Member
Nah, Ambrose's promo was the same type of promo aimed right at the Internet fan about Cena we've gotten since Owens showed up. AJ had the same type of promo and so on and so forth. I mean, it was serviceable and that's it.
Well, I'm glad Dolph has finally learned how to sell after over a decade wrestling. As for Roman, he's had one of the best, if not the best 1st 3 years of a WWE career in history and I'll take his "played out" style of selling every single day over the Video Game CAW style of selling we're getting from the rest of the roster.
I mean, Finn Balor had a shoot injured shoulder and ignored that to get his movez in.
I mean, grading with the modern WWE curve, that sounds about right. Put Ambrose about a 5 or 6 in ring and there ya go.
I don't like any of the Shield's looks, honestly. Roman desperately needs to drop the vest and get something new and more wrestler-esque. It just makes him look like he can't let go of the Shield ending. Dean is a homeless person and I hate Seth's X-Men tights. And his chest looks weird.
At least he got rid of the blonde streak though.
At least he got rid of the blonde streak though.
Discotheque
Banned
Ambrose
7 on mic
5 on look
2 on wrestling
sorry, i know he was an indie daredevil and shit but what i've seen from him in wwe in the last year or two is absymal.
Uno Venova
Banned
Nah there was nothing in Ambrose's promo that felt retread or similar to AJ's promos towards Cena. And there isn't anything different between Roman's selling vs the 'CAW' selling of the rest of the main roster besides being horizontal more often.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Hmm. Sounds like you want him to wear a vest.
Watching the 8 man tag from Dragon Gate last night. I think Tozawa will get over huge in WWE. He's small, but he's probably got the best facial expressions in pro wrestling. His face is just built to emote. He's very charismatic, and I think he could easily get very over with the younger audience.
It would make more sense for his character. 'I AM the shield.'
It would make more sense for his character. 'I AM the shield.'
Mic-Look-Wrassle for others...
Ambrose (revised): 7, 4, 3
AJ Styles: 5, 4, 10
Miz: 7, 5, 4
The Big Homie Romie: 10
, 10
, 10
Rusev: 4, 8, 6
Cena: 9, 9, 7
Seff: 6, 6, 7.5 (cheating)
KO: 8, 3, 8
All scores had little effort put into them.
My money is on Cena scoring highest if the whole WWE roster were graded this way.
Ambrose (revised): 7, 4, 3
AJ Styles: 5, 4, 10
Miz: 7, 5, 4
The Big Homie Romie: 10
3
9
6
Cena: 9, 9, 7
Seff: 6, 6, 7.5 (cheating)
KO: 8, 3, 8
All scores had little effort put into them.
My money is on Cena scoring highest if the whole WWE roster were graded this way.
The staleness of his ring style I can understand but personally I'd say it's subjective given depending on who he wrestles with. Last year for example when he wrestled Ziggler in that title tourney he was pulling out more submissions and technical wrestling, against Reigns he did more brawl tactics and even against Kofi some years ago Ambrose wrestled differently. Even if he switched his moves up some of his attacks people just don't like. It's not like they love everything about another guy's moves. Ambrose is more of a storyteller in the ring rather than a "big moves and explosive" guy like Reigns. That in itself is a style a lot of others won't enjoy. I mean we know how people are, the "more moves and bigger flips = greatness" thing doesn't hold up in actual storytelling and wrestling, if you slow it all down that varies. It's like the Vader/Flippy Do stuff all over again. At the end of the day it's all subjective. Different strokes for different folks.
As for his promos like what's said, Ambrose has only recently began to cut his own promos freely according to him. At the same time as soon on the Austin podcast or Talking Smack when he does it on his own he's fine. From what I can recall he's never really had a bad promo though. Out of all 3 Shield guys he's obviously the best in that.
And character-wise I'd say out of all 3 Shield boys Ambrose's character makes the most sense. Reigns is still in limbo and we don't know what he's about, I mean Rusev did absolutely nothing to deserve that. Rollins is about to be a face but they're having issues exactly towards how he's doing it given anything with the Authority's a joke, I guess he's against them but as to why he's still acting like he likes? I don't know. Ambrose on the other hand finally proved he's better than his two brothers but after criticism from Austin, the loss to Styles and now Cena's comments he's struggling whether he's even better than them. In turn he's using more moves, shooting off more and he's changing his wrestling up a bit to prove everyone wrong. Makes sense to me.
Yeah, it's silly really. People just go by what they like rather than exactly how it is. It's ok to dislike guys but there's a point where you realize that your opinions don't really reflect reality.
JesseEwiak
Member
I disagree, but hey, that's a good start. At least Roman actually sells some moves. Maybe if Balor would've spent some time selling his actual shoot injured shoulder instead of just going to his next spot, I'd actually remember something from that match instead of it blending in with every single other spotty WWE title match of the past few years.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Frankly, NOBODY in WWE is good at selling right now except for maybe Randy Orton, as WWE seems to specifically train their wrestlers not to sell jack shit, especially finishers, but Roman is much better at selling than most of the roster in that he can really sell the drama of the match via his facial expressions and body language and makes his matches look really physical and draining. Frankly, his matches have consistently been one of the best parts of most PPVs for a few years now because what he lacks in moves he makes up for in having a sense for storytelling. I was far more interested in Roman vs. AJ than I've ever been for a Cesaro match, and Roman, himself, was a big part of that. He still sucks ass on the mic, but shit, it's not like most of the roster is any better.
WWE needs road agents who can figure out how to make a match dramatic without just having guys hit finishers three or four times. It completely undercuts the drama and sense of spontaneity when you know matches have to have certain beats before you can even think about them being done.
WWE needs road agents who can figure out how to make a match dramatic without just having guys hit finishers three or four times. It completely undercuts the drama and sense of spontaneity when you know matches have to have certain beats before you can even think about them being done.
I'd imagine Joe would be at the top for me if I put it graded that way. Nakamura would be a hard one to define the mic portion.
Discotheque
Banned
cagey rankings pretty good, would tweak a few of those numbers though.
for looks i think the best are Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Cena
worst look is prolly kevin owens on the male roster honestly. but he's so good he makes up for it.
for looks i think the best are Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins and Cena
worst look is prolly kevin owens on the male roster honestly. but he's so good he makes up for it.
Hmm... would peg Joe at 7-8-9 or 7-8-10, the latter would tie Cena for me.
I had no mic number for Nakamura, not even a guess, and I'm too skewed to his current WWE work to grade him in the ring so I didn't bother.
JesseEwiak
Member
Right. If your argument that the title needs to be somebody good on the mic, and by good on the mic, I mean could survive a 4 hour TV taping in 1986 doing promos for a bunch of different house shows, then the title needs to bounce between Cena, The Miz, and Jerry Lawler.
SallyIsNow
Banned
How you gonna do a Shootember OT and not follow it up with the obvious Worktober?! Are we WWE now?
Discotheque
Banned
bedtime stories man. because his matches put you to sleep....
there's 1 more day in shootember. let me get it in.
Uno Venova
Banned
Acknowledging and selling an accidental injuries doesn't happen often. But honestly nothing would have saved that match. The story was half bakes, the crowd was out of it from a terrible show & a terrible title, never had a chance.
As far as selling goes Sami (I know he exaggerates sometimes) & Alexander are pretty good right now.
Actually this is a bit wrong.
It was reported on WON that the WWE tells their guys to specifically not sell at all. The times they do sell? They were told to. They want to sell, they know how to sell, they were trained to sell but they just tell them to not do it. Not just the road agents making the match but guys like Vince and Trips too. Ambrose for example, look at the matches in which he sells. The match against HHH, the matches in which he loses due to injury, the Rollins MITB match where he had an injury, the match where his stuff was taped up. It's all got a story situation to it.
And as for Reigns, selling and "storytelling", lemme bring this up again...it was reported in PWI that during the Rumble it was Roman's idea to not be stretchered out and walk back on his own. See, that's retarded. The babyface getting stretchered out to get more sympathy and then running back in does more for him rather than him walking out on his own and leaving the fight (when Owens and Ambrose were damaged and still fought, they didn't leave because they were hurt like Reigns did, they kept going as fighters) and then ran back in ok. That's silly as hell. Also wasn't there a report this week that said Reigns did something stupid with the chair? It's small stuff like that which Ambrose and Rollins wouldn't have a problem with because they know how things work. He's gotten learn more about the smaller details. That's one reason why Ambrose's psychology is rated highly and why his matches are full of psychology. Each match of his has a specific story and it's less by the numbers. Regardless if you're seeing big moves by him and regardless if he does something you think is silly, his matches have stories. You'll never hear Ambrose say "well lemme do this even though it doesn't make sense for my character" because he knows his character and how he's perceived.
That's the exact reason they even called that "Strowman is going to face Taker at WM" push off. If you can't wrestle Ambrose in a match, regardless what people think about his ringwork, then the company knows something's wrong with you. Trips said it right when he said
Strowman just couldn't cut it hence why he's not getting that Taker match. He couldn't pass the Ambrose Test.
I've never liked Cena's look. And it's not just cause he wears jorts lol. Dude just has this really weird face to me, and he's not helped by the fact that he's covered in all his obnoxious looking merch.
Reigns has the best look of all the men on the roster right now, even if I wish he'd finally ditch his Shield get up.
Reigns has the best look of all the men on the roster right now, even if I wish he'd finally ditch his Shield get up.
Discotheque
Banned
dude looks like jason momoa. he's a god among the rest of the wwe roster tbh. wrestling pretty decent too tbh. now if only he could talk on the mic without sounding dead.
Uno Venova
Banned
You don't even know what people are taking into account on looks, meh.
How attractive they are, muscle definition, how intimidating they look, how tall they are, how unique their attire is etc.
How attractive they are, muscle definition, how intimidating they look, how tall they are, how unique their attire is etc.
The irony of saying HHH is a top 3 on the Bret scale.
The whole Bret scale came up because he said Triple H was nothing special.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Bret is just jealous that he never had the genius idea of having a 4 star match that was 90% finishers and selling.
dude looks like jason momoa. he's a god among the rest of the wwe roster tbh. wrestling pretty decent too tbh. now if only he could talk on the mic without sounding dead.
The best thing Reigns could do is stop talking and just beat people up. That Fatal Four Way segment when Rollins, Cass, and Kevin were all trading barbs and Reigns decided to just start punching brehs? He should do that all the time. That's when he's at his coolest.
Also, the spear is a lame finisher - always has been - and he should get something else.
For me, it's a combination of all those things plus how well their attire sells their character.
To use the women, I love Bayley's look because she really looks like a regular ass hometown girl who is also a big ass kid. Becky, by comparison, I don't like as much because while she's attractive and has some cool gear, none of it tells me anything about her character.
Sami is an amazing seller. He's tricked the majority of this board into thinking he was legit injured on several occasions since he's been on the main roster.
Uno Venova
Banned
Actually I think that is what he's doing now, I don't think he's talked in weeks, they keep purposely interrupting him. He's better for it.
JesseEwiak
Member
Triple H is only a top 3 in present day WWE because of nearly 20 years of WWE propaganda telling a generation of fans that Triple H is great. You tell the lie long enough and also drive away the people who actually remember the past ans you can tell whatever story you want.
You're assuming of course, Triple H wanted to have a good match with Reigns at WM. #politicalhit