It's true that wrestling hits its highest highs through well done stories that the crowd is heavily invested in. But that rarely happens and I feel like if I didn't care for the actual wrassle, I'd be wasting my sweet time. If you only care about storylines and characters, surely you can find better entertainment.
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SHOOTEMBER Wrasslin' 2016 |OT2| Sometimes You Just Need to Shoot for a Double
- Thread starter Fox318
- Start date
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Alot of this is the total devaluation of finishers and signature moves, I think. More matches, especially jobber matches, should end in unexpected places, with moves other than the same ones you get every single time.
But, really, most companies have "their style". I don't think PWG's any less homogenized than WWE, just riskier and with fewer restrictions.
Uno Venova
Banned
It wasn't looking back on it, but the story was so good. The crowd, the fact that we were all dying for Cena to lose. Everything felt so important and that's only happening with a great build.
Really ?, I thought the match from in stand point was amazing asides from a few slip ups
Exactly the opposite for me. I don't really care for promos or faces/heels. I just want good in-ring action. This is probably why I like stuff like PWG so much. They're almost entirely focused on just being in the ring and showing off the flippy-flippy.
Damn Silly
Member
I can appreciate a great match standalone, but a story behind it is what ties it all together for me.
there was a bunch of slip ups and nothing that incredible about it, but the story and the crowd was red fucking hot. It wasn't a bad match, but I still think the match they had on RAW with the piledriver was way better in terms of wrestling
A great match should be able to tell you the story itself. Without needed promos or backstory. Those can help but not every feud can be a blood feud and doesn't need to be. Savage vs Roberts is great with backstory, but Rude vs Steamboat is great isolated. That's what happens when two pros work.
It's my problem with the vast majority of modern pro wrestling and it's not just exclusive to the WWE. It's all over the indies. The vast majority of pro wrestling matches tell the same story. 'I am guy who does lots of moves' 'I am guy who does more moves' 'Nuh uh I will do more moves than you and win'. I watched Kyle O'reilly vs ZSJ the other day from Thirteen and there was no story. It was just a sequence of knockoff UWF spots and acknowledging their training. Over and over and over. The match itself was nothing other than a demo between their different styles but they didn't play up that aspect at all. The Jushin Liger vs Virus match from NJPW this year was exactly that, and it worked. And it had far less spots and no 'this is awesome' chants.
No one sells the drama. Not no one, but most people don't sell the drama. It's why I like Joe currently so much. He's a monster and he acts like it. Even when the booking doesn't. You look in that face and you see malice, you feel empathy for his opponent even when his opponent is dressing up in crayons and trying to no-sell it.
It's why I like a lot of Mexican wrestling. It's not the flippy acrobatic stuff that people claim. It's the blood feuds. It's the severity. In WWE, PWG, ROH, TNA, whatever else, rarely do I ever see emotion in a match. Not every match needs to be a rollercoaster, you can do a fun dream match like Cena vs Styles, but the problem is every match is booked similarly. You never see desperation, you never see fear, you never feel anxious. I can name on one hand the matches in the last 2 years that have made me feel anxious like when I was a kid. The constant finisher kick-outs ruin any desperation and rather than putting you on the edge, they keep doing it so you've become numb to them. Or I have at least.
But my point about the Mexican wrestling is for stuff like Canis vs Trauma or LA Park vs Rush or even Fenix vs Mil Muertes(which was a much more Hollywood take on it) is you feel emotion. The crowd certainly helps. But I feel that I want to see what this match is going. I want to get caught up in it. Despite giving Punk shit, it's why I liked Brock vs Punk so much. It's why I liked Undertaker vs Brock(not WM) despite so many people hating it. It's why I praise Neville vs Zayn. Desperation. Punk, Undertaker, and Neville all felt desperate. You felt unsure of the match because of how the desperation played. Something that seemed like an obvious conclusion, Zayn inevitably getting the title, Brock destroying Punk, Brock destroying Undertaker who looked like a wreck the last time they fought. Even Sombra vs Atlantis wasn't as good as Guerrero vs Atlantis because the old timers get it. They know how to get the crowd going and get them to believe.
You saw how desperate they came off in that fight. The storytelling made you believe that the other side might win. You felt emotion and interest rather than 'how much can I gif out of this match'
Sibersk Esto
Banned
funkystudent
Member
Ok. Wrestling T shirt Etiquette check up.
Pink Macho Man shirt + Matching glasses and bandanna for a 10k charity in aid of mens cancer awareness as part of Movember stuff? Yay or Nay?
Goofy costumes are encouraged. I just feel icky buying wrestling clothes.
Pink Macho Man shirt + Matching glasses and bandanna for a 10k charity in aid of mens cancer awareness as part of Movember stuff? Yay or Nay?
Goofy costumes are encouraged. I just feel icky buying wrestling clothes.
Of course that's fine for a charity/awareness event where goofy costumes are encouraged. Even non-fans will eat it up.
Uno Venova
Banned
That Macho shirt with the glasses is probably the only shirt I've seen multiple times on campus. I wouldn't mind wearing it.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
After Raw there's gonna be a Table For 3 involving Kane, Big Show and Mark Henry.
Damn Silly
Member
Aye, you're not wrong, but like you said, it's that rare nowadays.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
I think the lack of a proper story involved with Nakamura vs Zayn (and no, the whole 'Nakamura's first match is Zayn's last' is not a decent story since I don't think it was even mentioned by commentary to sell it as such) is probably what kept it from being five stars or at the very least 4 and 3/4.
Professor Beef
Banned
is the table reinforced
That match was, for me, kind of the 'you'll chant this is awesome at anything, won't you?' moment. Especially when you compare it to his match with AJ or Ibushi. Not even in the same hemisphere.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
The crowd being really hot though really helped the match like it does for all matches. There had to be plenty of people there who barely knew much of Nakamura but still went mad over it. Sure it might not compare to some of his outside WWE work, but it was a great match to make a debut in.
Will pop if a double chokeslam happened.
Nocturnowl
Member
Holy shit, I may have to resub.
avengers23
Banned
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Meltzer gave Ambrose vs Lesnar at 'Mania 3 1/4 stars.
Man. Wm 32 was so bad.Meltzer gave Ambrose vs Lesnar at 'Mania 3 1/4 stars.
Uno Venova
Banned
It really sucks seeing WM transform from this story payoff event to this non-canon touring event.
I dunno, seems like that was only REALLY apparent this year. We'll have to see what 33 is like. Regardless of whether it was a one off spectacle, this year's WM was so bad I don't even really remember it either.
Oh yeah - Shane! Damn I thought 'Wyatt...right?' For a second. Was it indoors? It was I think. When I think back to the most recent Wrestlemania I just think of 31. That was a good show. 32 basically didn't happen.
Still hate that Triple H had another soft Wrestlemania main event. I'm not even sure where the blame lies.
Orton/Triple H had the ridiculous build and then a poor payoff with the standard match at the end. It also had the misfortune of following one of the greatest matches of all time.
Roman is Roman but at least the match with Brock had a sense of urgency to it. Roman/Triple H had nothing.
Orton/Triple H had the ridiculous build and then a poor payoff with the standard match at the end. It also had the misfortune of following one of the greatest matches of all time.
Roman is Roman but at least the match with Brock had a sense of urgency to it. Roman/Triple H had nothing.
You ain't watching Terrace House, aka the GOAT reality show?
It lies with Haitch.
I'm not sure how that storyline was supposed to benefit Reigns. Let's look at the facts:
1. Reigns loses the title again, just after winning it weeks prior, and does it in the worst fashion. He walked out of his own match even though he was the defending champion.
2. He's randomly given an opportunity to face Haitch for the title again by winning a triple threat match when The Authority should never be doing that considering their hate for him. Combined with him walking out of his own defence due to an "injury", it just makes him look even worse.
3. He defeats Haitch in a traditional wrestling match when he should hate his guts for what he's been through so the match itself should have been a savage brawl.
Now look at the other side of the coin:
1. Haitch wins a second Royal Rumble. He can now add himself alongside the likes of Hogan, Shawn Michaels, Austin, Cena, and Batista as someone who has won it more than once. All bigger stars than him too.
2. Haitch is now headlining the biggest Wrasslin'Mania of all time.
3. Haitch's entire storyline is that he's not afraid of Reigns, and is clearly fine with facing him. Considering he won the Royal Rumble clean, this isn't exactly a good thing when you're trying to make his opponent look good.
4. Haitch tries to put on a traditional wrestling match which does nothing to make Reigns look good. And Reigns is someone who has been putting the best, or near best, matches on any PPV he's been on in about two years.
5. Instead of sticking around after the show, and maybe doing the right thing by letting Reigns kill him a little more definitively, Haitch disappears for several months and only returns to get the title on Kevin Owens.
Nothing about that story seems like it was made for Reigns to come out looking the best he possibly could. It almost seems like intentional sabotage because that's how poorly thought out it is.
If they were really interested in making Reigns look good, then Haitch would've jobbed to him at Royal Rumble and Fast Lane, while Lesnar won the Royal Rumble to set up the rematch. Because really, it's not about beating a B+ player. It's about beating the two top dogs, and right now, those two are Barack Lesnar and Joan Cena. Haitch should've been a stepping stone for Reigns.
I'm not sure how that storyline was supposed to benefit Reigns. Let's look at the facts:
1. Reigns loses the title again, just after winning it weeks prior, and does it in the worst fashion. He walked out of his own match even though he was the defending champion.
2. He's randomly given an opportunity to face Haitch for the title again by winning a triple threat match when The Authority should never be doing that considering their hate for him. Combined with him walking out of his own defence due to an "injury", it just makes him look even worse.
3. He defeats Haitch in a traditional wrestling match when he should hate his guts for what he's been through so the match itself should have been a savage brawl.
Now look at the other side of the coin:
1. Haitch wins a second Royal Rumble. He can now add himself alongside the likes of Hogan, Shawn Michaels, Austin, Cena, and Batista as someone who has won it more than once. All bigger stars than him too.
2. Haitch is now headlining the biggest Wrasslin'Mania of all time.
3. Haitch's entire storyline is that he's not afraid of Reigns, and is clearly fine with facing him. Considering he won the Royal Rumble clean, this isn't exactly a good thing when you're trying to make his opponent look good.
4. Haitch tries to put on a traditional wrestling match which does nothing to make Reigns look good. And Reigns is someone who has been putting the best, or near best, matches on any PPV he's been on in about two years.
5. Instead of sticking around after the show, and maybe doing the right thing by letting Reigns kill him a little more definitively, Haitch disappears for several months and only returns to get the title on Kevin Owens.
Nothing about that story seems like it was made for Reigns to come out looking the best he possibly could. It almost seems like intentional sabotage because that's how poorly thought out it is.
If they were really interested in making Reigns look good, then Haitch would've jobbed to him at Royal Rumble and Fast Lane, while Lesnar won the Royal Rumble to set up the rematch. Because really, it's not about beating a B+ player. It's about beating the two top dogs, and right now, those two are Barack Lesnar and Joan Cena. Haitch should've been a stepping stone for Reigns.
wild wild rice
Member
Longer than a Stephanie McMachon promo, sheesh.
Same. Sure, at this stage as I'm getting back into wrestling, I'm learning to appreciate the in ring stuff more and recognize what's going on. Even if I can't articulate why a match is good or bad, I know it when I see it. But in general, I get into it because I like the characters. Are there better things to watch for that? Absolutely, and I watch some of those things. But in the end, I really enjoy this goofy fantasy sport and the various characters that inhabit it.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Oh God Orton is gonna be on Booker T's radio show tonight to talk about the tweets he made.
Uno Venova
Banned
Ehh, man. I just saw Booker sound prettyy apologetic towards Hogan for his rants on Legends. Not sure if I want more of that commentary from him.
Completely agree, and most wrestling fans would agree. All the people that grew up being Hulkamaniacs, all of the people that were watching for the NWO, or the Rock, or Stone Cold. Maybe not most of the people that still watch wrestling and post about it forums. But that's the reason for the low ratings.
I've uploaded about 100 wrestling videos on youtube and daily motion and not a one was about in ring wrestling.
Bluekaveli
Member
Think you get away from flo rida and my house but every movie insists on having it!
Sweeney Tom
Banned
RIP Hex
Gonna avoid this because I don't need Booker saying some fuck shit and making me want to not like him.
Bluekaveli
Member
Who?
BewareTheBatsie
Member
Orton vs Lesnar is apparently No DQ. RIP Randy.
We've all known that since the DX days.
Bluekaveli
Member
Orton's gonna die tonight.
Which is why it was so sad seeing some people support Haitch at Wrasslin'Mania 32. All these folks cheering at the thought of a white man keeping a minority down.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
According to people there they did the 'F5 into an RKO' spot. But no, we couldn't get that at Summerslam.
Fuck everything.
Roman was the physical extension of a 70 year old white man.