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[SlimySnake]

Why doesn’t it cause issues in ratchet, Spider-Man, or RE?

Dragons Dogma is on RE engine. has the issue issues.

Ratchet and Spiderman 2 dont use rt to the same effect as these other games. RTGI is not present. And while rtao and shadows were added, they are disabled in the pssr mode. Makes you wonder why.

the reflections in both games are also limited in comparison to say callisto and AW2. AW2 has reflections even on wooden cabin surfaces. you are not getting that in ratchet or spiderman which limit reflections to just metallic objects. Callisto reflections are even more detailed. light actually reflects off of cement and other non-mettalic surfaces. it works almost like rtgi in some cases. In spiderman 2, distant buildings only reflect in quality mode.

there is a reason why spiderman 2 and ratchet are able to do native 4k 30 fps on the base ps5 with rt reflections while all other games had to drop to 1440p or below. those other games are applying those rt effects to a lot more objects on screen. more noise = more things for pssr to cleanup. not a hard problem to solve seeing as how TSR, FSR, XeSS and DLSS have all figured this out so sony should figure this out too. Only issue here is that they shouldve figured it out before launch.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

those other games are applying those rt effects to a lot more objects on screen.

Seems like a terrible decision given how demanding this is and how little impact it has visually relative to the tradeoffs

 

[adamsapple]

RTGI shouldn’t be used with PSSR in its current state then until it’s fixed

Not exactly something games that were built with RTGI can do that easily. I doubt developers would make a render of the game without RTGI just to accommodate PSSR.

The better solution would be to just use the extra horsepower elsewhere. First party games like Horizon aren't using PSSR either, so it's not like this is a Sony mandate.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not exactly something games that were built with RTGI can do that easily. I doubt developers would make a render of the game without RTGI just to accommodate PSSR.

The better solution would be to just use the extra horsepower elsewhere. First party games like Horizon aren't using PSSR either, so it's not like this is a Sony mandate.

That’s what I’m saying

If games already use RTGI, they shouldn’t use PSSR if it’s broken

They should just use the power to render at higher resolution or frames using existing upscaler techniques

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Does DLSS have issues with RTGI or is this just early stage PSSR issues?

 

[Bojji]

Does DLSS have issues with RTGI or is this just early stage PSSR issues?

None of the upscalers have issues like that. Only PSSR.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

None of the upscalers have issues like that. Only PSSR.

That’s encouraging that it’s likely to get fixed then

 

[Bojji]

That’s encouraging that it’s likely to get fixed then

Yes. But question is, how well will developers handle this update and when this will happen?

 

[dok1or]

Where is my PRO patch - fix to remove that terrible shimmering in quality mode? I want to play in quality mode, not perforamnce!
Fu.k you Bloober

I have PRO, I payed for game with PS5 PRO Enhanced list on game page! And I have fuc.ing mess.
Again - fu.k you Bloober

 

[SenkiDala]

Where is my PRO patch - fix to remove that terrible shimmering in quality mode? I want to play in quality mode, not perforamnce!
Fu.k you Bloober

I have PRO, I payed for game with PS5 PRO Enhanced list on game page! And I have fuc.ing mess.
Again - fu.k you Bloober

Why are you writting fu.k instead of fuck or fucking ?

 

[Ironman_Bad]

Why are you writting fu.k instead of fuck or fucking ?

Because children are watching

 

[Bartski]

Why are you writting fu.k instead of fuck or fucking ?

Have some manners, blimey

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Saw this get bumped and was hoping these twats did something about the sorry-ass state of it. Oh well.

 

[Bojji]

Because children are watching

 

[XXL]

Because children are watching

Don't worry Punished Miku has heard me swear on here before.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

If some games look anywhere from pretty good to amazing with PSSR and some look bad, isn’t that an indication that it’s probably the developers more than the hardware?

 

[TGO]

Why are you writting fu.k instead of fuck or fucking ?

A lot of places censor that ******* ****

Spoiler

maybe they thought it was the same here?

 

[TGO]

If some games look anywhere from pretty good to amazing with PSSR and some look bad, isn’t that an indication that it’s probably the developers more than the hardware?

Not really, take 28 Days Later.
No AI Upscaling is gonna fix that without fucking it up regardless of how good the upscaler is.
But I don't think that's completely the problem
It's what it's being fed and in this case PSSR can't handle them well.
The games look good native and PSSR is supposed to replicate that, but it can't because it doesn't know how to handle it with producing shitty image problems
Yes the low resolution doesn't help but this is something that PSSR need to improve on and consider Raytraying is one of the BIG 3 it should know how to handle it.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Where is my PRO patch - fix to remove that terrible shimmering in quality mode? I want to play in quality mode, not perforamnce!
Fu.k you Bloober

I have PRO, I payed for game with PS5 PRO Enhanced list on game page! And I have fuc.ing mess.
Again - fu.k you Bloober

I'm fucking pissed off too. I also want to play this game with great graphics. Not "on par" with the base PS5 versions but f'ing better than that! Right now? It's neither! Yeah they added hardware Lumen ...so what? The game looks like a soupy mess of RT noise and unstable shadows that look like lava lamp ...everything moves around and it's nauseating. Lights have a low level flicker still...wtf is this garbage Bloober?

Bloober seems to be doing the least of any other dev with a bad Pro version in actually trying to fix their game.

Also ...why the hell didn't Cerny have the concern enough for customers to address the fact that PSSR is having such poor results in certain games? I watched his entire presentation and all he did was talk about the positives of the console like the rdna3 RT customizations in the GPU and pssr ....nothing to assuage customers concerns about PSSR artifacting, shimmering when used on games with low native resolution or just how noisy it can be with more advanced forms of RT/Lumen in games like SH2 and SW Outlaws.

People saying Pro/pssr shouldn't be judged by the handful of games that don't look good with it and that the "vast majority of games look better with pssr" ....I'm not convinced this claim is all that accurate ...many of the best Pro patched games are not even using PSSR and and many of the games where PSSR is supposed to be some great revolution in IQ actually exhibit a pattern of also having quite a bit of temporal instability.. I'm not convinced that the image is even superior in games that allow us to toggle between pssr and existing temporal upscalers...for example GoW Ragnarok ...I spent a bunch of time flipping back and forth between upscalers and there's hardly a difference in clarity and detail, in fact TAA might even look better in that game. LoU1 and 2, Spiderman, FF7 Rebirth, Stellar Blade are good but also have shimmer on edges in PSSRb. Callisto, Dying Light 2, Dead Island 2, Forbidden West, Lords of the Fallen are great updates that aren't using PSSR ...

If it was so good every game would be using it and every game would be better. There would be zero questioning whether it's better or not because it just would be.

He didn't discuss the high cost of using PSSR. Didn't address our concerns, didn't say "we're aware of certain problem games and are helping devs to fix then as we speak"...these are the kind of things I was hoping would be addressed because they're big concern and sticking point for a lot of early adopters...

if I'm all over the place in my thoughts I apologize. I'm really damn tired tonight after my dog had a procedure today for skin cancer.

 

[Ashamam]

nothing to assuage customers concerns about PSSR artifacting, shimmering when used on games with low native resolution or just how noisy it can be with more advanced forms of RT/Lumen in games like SH2 and SW Outlaws.

But he did. He made it dead clear that PSSR isn't a denoising solution. Seemed pretty clear as well that's its a work in progress. Implicit to that is they know there are problems, I mean he talked about issues arising prior to release in the model as well as stating it will continue to be iterated on. Isn't that assuaging customer concerns? Acknowledging its not perfect yet?

For devs who thought they could drop in PSSR as a 1:1 substitute for a technique that does handle denoising they were mistaken. Don't know who's fault that was, but the devs surely could have seen it in the builds prior to pushing patches at least. This is all launch blues. The processes for all these games have been set, so there is some friction in trying to adapt them. Games built with the Pro in mind should be a fair bit better, or where appropriate use techniques more suited to that particular game.

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Reminder that this game has been on sale 3 times in a row just in the last month on the PS Store - maybe it has to do with the bad publicity it's receiving lately due to the Pro patch fuck up ?
First it was 55€ for the normal edition during BF, then it was 51€ during the VGA awards sales for the deluxe and now it's at 48€ for the January sales, price is good but I'm not going to buy a game in this state.

Fucking Bloober man...

 

[DenchDeckard]

I hope bloomer get this fixed for those with the pro as I often saw this title be one that peeps on here were really looking forward to the pro patch and even waiting to play the game.

They must be able to do something to improve this game on pro.

 

[Elios83]

Also ...why the hell didn't Cerny have the concern enough for customers to address the fact that PSSR is having such poor results in certain games? I watched his entire presentation and all he did was talk about the positives of the console like the rdna3 RT customizations in the GPU and pssr ....nothing to assuage customers concerns about PSSR artifacting, shimmering when used on games with low native resolution or just how noisy it can be with more advanced forms of RT/Lumen in games like SH2 and SW Outlaws.

He addressed it.
PSSR is just SUPER RESOLUTION.
It's about enhancing and making things look sharper.
He said clearly we don't do frame gen, we don't do ray tracing denoising. Developers have to use other techniques to address those issues.
So if you have noisy low res effects in your game PSSR will think it's a fine detail that needs to be enhanced.
A few developers used PSSR wrongly for a purpose it isn't designed for, that is making noisy effects look good.
Even if they didn't read the documentation it would have been obvious by testing the results.
Cerny also said that retrofitting PSSR in engines after a game has shipped can be trickier than developing games with it, in this case better design decisions can be made since the beginning.


Basically there is a learning process to use the tech properly for the intended purpose.

 

[leizzra]

Reminder that this game has been on sale 3 times in a row just in the last month on the PS Store - maybe it has to do with the bad publicity it's receiving lately due to the Pro patch fuck up ?

Nah, rather it's the case of being a horror game that is not a Resident Evil. Next thing is the IP itself - smaller fan base, being dormant for long time and at the end they remade SH2 as first which can be tricky for newcomers ("I haven't played first game so I can't play this").

The problem here is I think on both sides but I would lean more to blame the devs. Yes, Sony needs to work more on PSSR and they will. We will see some upgrades but some other will be left for newer hardware which Cerny pointed out few times. PS5 Pro is here really a beta test platform and a way to have feedback from bigger range of dev's. PSSR is simple to use (I've heard it few times from programmers) but it's on dev's how they will use it.

Cerny said that recently but this is something that I thought from the start - PSSR is one of the render passes that are combined for final image. You can use it (in theory) wherever you like but it doesn't mean you should. Some games have implemented it better, some don't. What I see is that if the standard version of a game has issues (and SH2 had them before the Pro launch) especially with the stability of image, then PSSR can make them worse. FFVII Rebirth is an example of one of the best use of the Pro. It looks great, but still it has issues with stability. Great place to spot it was Cosmo Canyon where there are large rock formations that has this big noise (I guess it's GI) in shadows. I thought that it's the fault of PSSR but nope - standard version has the same issues, but Pro makes it a bit more visible.

And for sure it's Bloober (and other dev's alike) fault that they aren't trying hard to resolve the problem and just use easy solutions (like turning off PSSR). The only thing that defends them is that most of those games were in development before the Pro, so they added it later. Proper implementation might take more work (because you need to rethink your rendering solutions) and they don't want to do it now. Though there are dev's that take time and gamers weren't even expecting them to do so (Callisto Protocol).

Anyway I hope that with newer games the situation will improve also that Sony will make some upgrades, but that is something I'm less hopeful after Cerny's presentation. Also there is still much that they need to figure out (like the system level PSSR upgrades that could potentially work without work from dev's).

 

[Brigandier]

Damn I thought the game had received a new update, Fuck Bloober their silence on the issue is deafening.

 

[Thebonehead]

Newer versions with up to date SDK's should hopefully improve the situation. Not to be overblown but there seem to be some issues with specific implementations currently, no need to deny it.

The duality of man.

No, whenever PS5 lacks something it's always the hardware. In contrast, when the same happens on XSX it's always bugs/tools or bad weather. Don't you know already? And do not even dare to mention games with RT performing on PS5, that's a complete blasphemy punishable by law.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

Damn I thought the game had received a new update, Fuck Bloober their silence on the issue is deafening.

What's crazy to me is that not-great graphics are one thing. Maybe lower resolution, whatever. But there are seriously distracting issues. It's like releasing a BluRay that looks like an Amazon Prime stream with compressed, pixelated blacks and shit. Movie nerds would lose their minds and nobody would defend that nonsense.

It's crazy to me that the game flickers, trails and what not at every end and they're like yup...

 

[viveks86]

I wanted to gift my wife 2 games to play on the Pro for the holidays. One was Silent Hill 2 and the other was Until Dawn Remake. I'm glad that at least Until Dawn appears to be fixed. We just started yesterday and so far, it looks great and runs a smooth 60 fps. Had the audio cut out once when we hit the playstation button and then resumed, but no other bugs so far. Hoping there is one last patch for Silent Hill 2 in the next week to just get rid of PSSR in the 30 fps mode. If it doesn't happen, we might just bite the bullet and start a playthrough. It seems most issues are limited to just the opening segment in 30 fps? Whatever I've seen online after that seems totally playable... But give us one last patch, Bloober! Pretty please?