To be fair though, Silent Hill 2 had the same amount of monsters. You had the lying figures, the nurses, abstract daddies, mannequins and creepers to fight against - that was it. I know the big determining factor is that the enemies in 2 were way better designed, but still.
Silent Hill 2 had around about nine (Abstract Daddy - Bubble Head Nurse - Creeper - Flesh Lips - Lying Figure - Mandarin - Mannequin - Prisoner)
Silent Hill Downpour has about five (or seven if you think the prisoner enemies are unique when they really aren't or "The Void" which isn't really a design =/) (
Doll (Shadow) - Prisoner Juggernaut - Prisoner Minion - Screamer - The Void - Wall Corpse - Weeping Bat
)
Even Homecoming, which I absolutely hate, has eight. (Not including the bosses which are so much better than in Downpour)
It is rather perplexing, but to be honest it's probably the only thing I actually have a problem with beside what I've already posted here previously. At least they are original enemies and not ripped straight from the film, I guess.
Silent Hill 2 had around about nine (Abstract Daddy - Bubble Head Nurse - Creeper - Flesh Lips - Lying Figure - Mandarin - Mannequin - Prisoner)
Silent Hill Downpour has about five (or seven if you think the prisoner enemies are unique when they really aren't or "The Void" which isn't really a design =/)
Flesh Lips was a boss. Mandarins, okay I'll give you that, even though you only encounter them twice during the course of the whole game. The prisoner though; that is a huge stretch, especially if you don't think The Void constitutes as an enemy design. It is after all a single, invisible, unthreatening monster in a cell.
People around here know that I'm picky as all hell when it comes to SH games. I think I had some members here wanting to punch me over my opinions of Shattered Memories.
Downpour... this might be the first time since SH2 I've legitimately been excited by a Silent Hill game. If only it did a few things differently! ARG!
I'm currently at like 8 hours of playtime, and I don't think my stats have hit 50% completion yet. The Silent Hill presented here is just such a joy to explore.
Those few things are definitely a let-down, especially the bland and overall lame monster design. Honestly, give VATRA another chance, and put some more imagination behind creature design. I believe they've got a winning formula. I think with a solid gameplay foundation, the team would have a chance to dive head first into the aesthetics, and the symbiosis between things like creature design and the environments, narrative, etc.
I see.. Any idea about the manhole? I'm trying to get to the north part of map but I can't find a open route.. I need to head back to the bridge you see when crawling out of the manhole after St Maria's.
People around here know that I'm picky as all hell when it comes to SH games. I think I had some members here wanting to punch me over my opinions of Shattered Memories.
Downpour... this might be the first time since SH2 I've legitimately been excited by a Silent Hill game. If only it did a few things differently! ARG!
I'm currently at like 8 hours of playtime, and I don't think my stats have hit 50% completion yet. The Silent Hill presented here is just such a joy to explore.
THIS. I remember almost getting banned over comments I made on GAF about Shattered Memories lol. Decent game on its own, TERRIBLE Silent Hill game. And I agree that there were some bad design choices in this game. But the way I see it: For everyone ONE bad design choice, is TWO awesome ones.
My biggest upset with this game was the Nightmare portions of the game just weren't.....good. Not scary, oppressive, or devilish enough for me. It's around the quality of Silent Hill 4. Everything was too lit up. I demand DARKNESS when the Nightmare sets in! It's the darkness and the ambiance that scares the living shit out of me. But then i fall back to my first point. Even though the Nightmare world didn't do it's job like I remember it in the old days, I feel like the NORMAL world picked up its slack. Going into random house's or apartments were genuinely creepy. Dark and scary basements, etc. Totally terrifying!
I want to hate Tomm Hulett so much! But when I finished Downpour I felt.....Satisfied.
You know what really makes me lament the poor technology behind this game? Ace Combat Assault Horizon. I know, that sounds crazy, right? Hear me out.
So I'm stuck sick at home and decided to pop in a borrowed copy of AC just to see what it was all about. Immediately I'm struck by how effortlessly they are able to display whatever they want with incredible slick, smooth running visuals. Seamlessly cutting between gameplay, cutscenes, and other bits without a single hitch. Their vision for this game was supported by the technology they created for it and I always felt as if their vision was being propelled forward by this. There is something in the game that recalls the glory days of Japanese development on PS2 where developers were able to acutely focus on what they wanted to achieve and delivered the best technology to pull it off. Silent Hill was most certainly one such game.
Naturally, the two games have absolutely nothing in common, but as I was just playing Downpour last night the difference really struck me. Downpour is one of the worst cases I've seen this generation of a game idea that is completely limited by its poor engine implementation. I constantly feel as if their ideas were nipped and cut in order to stick within the limits of their technical know how. Downpour is so full of compromises that it becomes hard to enjoy. If the content and ideas weren't hot I would find it hard to care, but I feel like they were really onto something here. If they weren't so technically inept Vatra may actually have delivered a world class Silent Hill game. I'd love to have some insight into the development process for Downpour in order to understand what went wrong. I can't think of any other recent game that is so technically poor as to interfere with the experience (outside of, ironically, MGS3D perhaps).
I'm still managing to enjoy the experience despite all this, but man, it feels like such a wasted opportunity and I don't think I'll ever be able to go back. This is going to age SOOOO poorly as well.
Of the three SH products releasing in the span of a month I actually believe that Book of Memories stands the chance of being the best game simply because WayForward have proven themselves to be excellent game developers time and time again.
Just for kicks, take a look at the 2010 trailer for Downpour.
Going back now I'd imagine they were having a lot of problems at that point as the trailer is clearly pre-rendered using in-game assets. I can't imagine how poor the framerate must have been on their dev kits back then.
I feel it's very much a step in the right direction from the developers. It's seriously flawed in a lot of ways, and it's still not in the same league as Silent Hil 1-4, however I thoroughly enjoyed the game.
I think it's about a 6.5/10, would be 7.5 or 8 if the technical issues weren't there.
I just hope Vartra take a good amount of time in Unreal Engine learning, is there a College or something teaching Graphics design? They should go, all of them.
Then come back with the Best Silent Hill ever. They can deliver.
The reason to find the manhole is for location purposes (all i'm getting from you guys is head north) -- well north bound roads are blocked for me - i can't find a gate or low building to duck under that would get me passed these blockades.. I'm standing in front of St Maria's right now with no fucking clue where to go.
There is a little bit more than "just head north"... clearly. Give me a street name or something..
The reason to find the manhole is for location purposes (all i'm getting from you guys is head north) -- well north bound roads are blocked for me - i can't find a gate or low building to duck under that would get me passed these blockades.. I'm standing in front of St Maria's right now with no fucking clue where to go.
There is a little bit more than "just head north"... clearly. Give me a street name or something..
It's Gametrailers, home of Shane "All you do is wander around the desert for hours" Satterfield(in reference to Fallout New Vegas). Also IGN gave it a bad score, and they can't be expected to form their own opinions.
damn, I actually think Downpour performs way better on 360. I've played through about an hour of it, right before you get to town, and there's maybe been like... 2-3 times, at best, of some framerate drops. other than that it's been pretty smooth.
damn, I actually think Downpour performs way better on 360. I've played through about an hour of it, right before you get to town, and there's maybe been like... 2-3 times, at best, of some framerate drops. other than that it's been pretty smooth.
So finally finished it. The ending could have been better, but I really enjoyed the game overall (if you guys haven't figured that out already, ha ha). The last boss was much, much easier than I expected it to be, but the story pay off was pretty good. Time to go back and play my hard/hard no enemies killed run! Silent Hill is back baby! Between this and the HD Collection I'm going to be a permanent resident of the town.
Someone please shed some light on this, very early game spoilers.
I'm watching a Let's Play of this game, and the player skipped right past the diner. He just went for the tram thing and didn't trigger the otherworld sequence that occurs when you're in the diner. Is the entire game "open" like that?
Someone please shed some light on this, very early game spoilers.
I'm watching a Let's Play of this game, and the player skipped right past the diner. He just went for the tram thing and didn't trigger the otherworld sequence that occurs when you're in the diner. Is the entire game "open" like that?
Did he actually enter the tram to go to the next area? Because I don't know how he'd be able to do that without going through the diner, as the item you need to get on the tram happens at the very end of that section.
Otherwise, you do have to go the tram station to pick up an item that you're going to need to get the ticket for the tram. Whether that happens before you go in or after doesn't matter.
Did he actually enter the tram to go to the next area? Because I don't know how he'd be able to do that without going through the diner, as the item you need to get on the tram happens at the very end of that section.
Otherwise, you do have to go the tram station to pick up an item that you're going to need to get the ticket for the tram. Whether that happens before you go in or after doesn't matter.
Oh, you're right. I was just baffled at that, so I paused the video and posted my question. He does indeed get stuck, and heads back to the diner. Sorry for that!
Well I was referring to the fact that the vids of the opening and this part of the game that I saw had massive tearing and weird other things going on but I haven't seen any of it. But yeah I will wait till the actual town then to make another assessment
I think the What's Your Sign? side-quest is bugged :s
For the symbol under the draw bridge, I've got the two fragments in place. Problem is the game won't let me turn them; it just says 'Open Inventory'. That can't be right - has this happened to anyone else?
What fucks me off is that this is literally the last thing I had to do to finish off all the side-quests.
I think the What's Your Sign? side-quest is bugged :s
For the symbol under the draw bridge, I've got the two fragments in place. Problem is the game won't let me turn them; it just says 'Open Inventory'. That can't be right - has this happened to anyone else?
What fucks me off is that this is literally the last thing I had to do to finish off all the side-quests.
Not possible - they're both in place now and I can't remove them. At first I thought I had to find a third fragment or something so I left it til later, but now I can see I'm royally fucked.
Not possible - they're both in place now and I can't remove them. At first I thought I had to find a third fragment or something so I left it til later, but now I can see I'm royally fucked.
I feel it's very much a step in the right direction from the developers. It's seriously flawed in a lot of ways, and it's still not in the same league as Silent Hil 1-4, however I thoroughly enjoyed the game.
I'll keep to myself on the argument of Downpour versus SH3, but SH4? No, just... no. I mean, you're right, SH4 and Downpour aren't in the same league, because SH4 can't even begin to wish it was an enjoyable as Downpour.
Were I supreme overlord of the Silent Hill series (instead of that no-good Tomm Hulett), I'd have scrapped the entire idea of generic enemies in this game. Rip them all out, and put in more one-time unique encounters like the "turn back time" event. I know that's a scary idea for a developer, but do it! This game would have been so, so much better had every fight been meaningful.
Were I supreme overlord of the Silent Hill series (instead of that no-good Tomm Hulett), I'd have scrapped the entire idea of generic enemies in this game. Rip them all out, and put in more one-time unique encounters like the "turn back time" event. I know that's a scary idea for a developer, but do it! This game would have been so, so much better had every fight been meaningful.
I'd be ALL for an exploration based Silent Hill where you arrive in town and it's just you vs. the town, and the encounters are special cases just like the Turn Back Time quest. Downpour KINDA steered in that direction by giving you the objective *Escape SH*, which I thought was cool. I snickered when that popped up. Also the quasi-free roam was enjoyable.
I haven't followed this thread, but has this review been posted? It's from Dead Pixels, the gaming side of Bloody-Disgusting, the site I contribute to now. They liked it. http://www.bloody-disgusting.com/news/videogames/2353
The Final Word: If you've been patiently waiting for a true Silent Hill experience then look no further, because it's here.
Oh boy that was fantastic. There's such a great game hidden under all of the technical issues. The hobo quest bugged out on me, too. The fishing rod won't appear in the any of the three locations it's supposed to be (I checked a guide) so I proceeded onward and figured I'd hit it up on a second playthrough.
Maybe Vatra will do a PC version in the near future that fixes all of these issues and provides the performance the game needs. The tech side, enemy design and clunky combat are the only thing that lets down the experience. The fundamental game (exploration, atmosphere, narrative) is /fantastic/ thus far.
damn, I actually think Downpour performs way better on 360. I've played through about an hour of it, right before you get to town, and there's maybe been like... 2-3 times, at best, of some framerate drops. other than that it's been pretty smooth.
Oh boy that was fantastic. There's such a great game hidden under all of the technical issues. The hobo quest bugged out on me, too. The fishing rod won't appear in the any of the three locations it's supposed to be (I checked a guide) so I proceeded onward and figured I'd hit it up on a second playthrough.
Maybe Vatra will do a PC version in the near future that fixes all of these issues and provides the performance the game needs. The tech side, enemy design and clunky combat are the only thing that lets down the experience. The fundamental game (exploration, atmosphere, narrative) is /fantastic/ thus far.
If so look "north" of where you enter the boardwalk, and down the side of a house that is split with metal fencing is where I found the fishing rod. I had the same issue. Are you also unable to use the door to the tunnels where the hobo is? It makes that station useless.
Played it for about two hours now. A lot of things I really like about it, it sure as fuck got a great atmosphere and Lichts music fits it really well, also a hell lot of small details everywhere that I love going through and looking at. Techical issues are a bit of a disgrace though, so many frame rate drops everywhere but worst of all : that huge ass fucking freeze whenever you get a trophy, just what the fuck. Of smaller things that are imo not that great is Murphy reacting to stuff, understand the logic behind it being silly if he was just completely mute while crazy stuff is happening around him but having him scream "what the fuck, aaaaaaaaaarh" gets on my nerves, especially since it's not done very convincingly.
So yeah, unless the game suddenly goes really stupid I would really like to see Vatra get another try, just give them some more QA time next time. But knowing konami they will ship it off to yet another developer.
You might want to check out the thread called "Silent Hill HD Collection |OT| PS2 Downport" first.
I would link you to a specific post in it but there's just so many gems in there, it's a mess and you are probably better off playing your old versions of the game.
Seriously, being a PS3 owner can be pretty annoying at times where multiplat releases are concerned. The frame drops in the town are definitely more prevalent than the previous portions
Normal. I looked at the guide and checked all three locations it's supposed to be for each of the difficulties and it just won't spawn. For me, it's supposed to be in the
spillway in Pleasant River
but nothing shows up. It's been reported at a few sites so it looks like it's a bug. An annoying one at that as I was trying to get the achievement for all side quests but I suppose that will have to wait for the second play through (which I think you have to do to get the dig sites anyway).
Downpour struggles with all of this because, with its doors that close automatically a few seconds after you've entered a room, its flickering shadows as textures update, its wonky frame-rate, its screen-tearing, and its weapons that disappear from Pendleton's hands when he climbs a ladder (and pop back into existence when he reaches the top), it's already messing with its own reality by sheer accident. It has the naff sense of the uncanny that comes with cost-cutting - the dreamy disconnectedness of direct-to-video dramas and German soap operas. Vatra can't scare you because it can't actually control your experience enough in the first place. It can't make you truly believe in its world, with its recycled monsters and its simplistic button-prompt moral choices, so it can't then shake that world until your brain starts to rattle.
With nothing truly thrilling in store, this is still a stoically acceptable video game. It may not shock you, but it can at least build a thick, oppressive atmosphere as the relatively clever plot keeps twisting and the grot and grime pile up and threaten to choke you. It can't handle fear - but it does a neat line in mild intrigue. Silent Hill: Downpour won't freeze you to your seat, but it will probably keep you playing to the end.
The Eurogamer review has a "harsh" score for those used to the 7-10 scale, but I can't disagree much with the content of the review itself and I'm enjoying the hell out of the game, too. Though I'd disagree that there aren't genuinely scary moments. I've felt tons of tension and creep factor. Especially in the main storyline areas.
My fiancee and I, who both love horror material and Silent Hill in particular, finished the game last week. Actually, we finished it three times, and were pleasantly surprised to find that the game practices an economy similar to the older games - while we spent 18 hours doing most everything in the first play-through, our subsequent games (done mainly for completing the other endings) took only about 3 hours.
Despite the multiple runs, we were both conflicted by the experience. On the one hand, it is as many have said: some of the game's concepts feel like a step in the right direction (or in this case, a step back toward the franchise's roots). The emphasis on isolated exploration and moody atmosphere, coupled with the addition of sidequests, feels appropriate. The developers (Tom Huelett included) seem to understand how to construct a mysterious and thematic plot, with fairly interesting and believable characters that walk a fine line between psychological realism and unknowable oddity. The return to riddle difficulty level is much appreciated, and the game houses a few surprising touches that please the long-time fan.
But replaying Silent Hill 2 and 3 shines a massive splotlight (quite ironically) at the core of Downpour's problem: it's simply not that scary. Now, I understand that fear is entirely subjective and that my fiancee and I have probably been too exposed to certain gaming conventions to be scared easily. So I have to couch this assessment in a comparison to the first three games.
Downpour (and Homecoming, too) reverses the philosophy of Silent Hill 1-3, in which the world itself is the most hostile entity. In Downpour, the world is sad, empty, lonely, as if it the old gods could not be bothered to care about Murphy's presence; only the spirits of the dead remain, waiting for someone to bear witness to the violence that destroyed them. This isn't necessarily bad, and it may be an intentional tonality. But outside of a few instances (such as those (enemy spoilers)
damn mannequin sex-dolls in the library
), the fear and creepiness are mostly gone as a consequence.
In Silent Hill 2 and 3, the world hates you: even as James walks toward the path to the graveyard, there are horrible sounds, sounds that tell of monsters, of being followed, without showing anything. Hallways reverberate with screams that blend the natural and industrial worlds together into a cacophony of perverse rhythm and haunting melody. In one room of Heather's otherworld alone is more blood than all of Downpour combined; and the blood is caked to the walls, almost unreal in its distribution. The creepy monster design adds to the tension, undoubtedly, but the games' fear factor is largely steeped in sound design, in making the world throb with hostility. That's what makes those games so scary: you can beat a creepy monster, but you cannot destroy the world that surrounds you, the world that whittles your sanity away with unholy sounds and bleeding walls and consuming darkness.
There is almost none of that in Downpour. The game is rarely dark, and some of my most tense moments were those few exceptions. By contrast, the darkness in the older games is almost a force: in Silent Hill 3, even with the highest brightness settings, some of the hallways are barely discernible - and when you can see, all that greets you are tight, blood-soaked walls. As I said, it is as if the world itself died, leaving only a few, not-particularly-scary monsters to carry out its aggressive campaign.
Ultimately, Downpour occupies a strange space in the horror landscape: that of the brooding, atmospheric adventure game with horror elements. It's nowhere near as intense as Silent Hill 1-3, and I don't think they strove for that feeling. It's entirely suitable when you only want a "kind of scary" game, a game that is shrouded more than blanketed in darkness, in gore, in hostility. It's mid-tier horror on the scale of intensity. But Silent Hill never reached its vaulted reputation by being mid-tier horror; the franchise garnered fans because it was balls-to-the-wall, complete-mind-fuck scary (at least that's how we feel about it). The trouble is, I don't think that really appeals to a "wider audience" like Konami probably wants, so the producers for the franchise are going to have to make some key decisions about the direction of future installments.
I'm pleased with Downpour on a couple of levels, but in some ways, I'd be sad to see Silent Hill gentrified, which is what Downpour feels like at the level of intensity. Also in terms of unlockables, which are so abundant in 2 & 3 that their absence in Downpour is felt all the more sharply.
