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Singing & Vocalism OT
- Thread starter Mumei
- Start date
- Status
Leona Lewis
Banned
I don't think it's any weirder looking than her fellow aging contemporaries' masks. She just applies the eye makeup with too heavy a hand, so she looks inhumanly cartoonish.
Admittedly, that's the only time I've ever seen her, so she may look different elsewhere but she stood out to me immediately as having some odd features, while the other girls didn't come off that way at all. Anyway, I didn't hear enough to want to really check anything of hers out, but I am checking out some of Ailee's stuff.
SonofdonCD, I assure you: You're being too generous. She's really as hysterically bad as the clips make her out to be.
Listen to her performance of If I Ain't Got You. It's probably my favorite.
Admittedly, that's the only time I've ever seen her, so she may look different elsewhere but she stood out to me immediately as having some odd features, while the other girls didn't come off that way at all. Anyway, I didn't hear enough to want to really check anything of hers out, but I am checking out some of Ailee's stuff.
Listen to her performance of If I Ain't Got You. It's probably my favorite.
Say, did anything ever come of the idea to have a weekly / monthly singing theme for this thread? That would be a lot of fun, and could potentially turn into a great learning experience as well.
On a related note, I've been mulling over the idea of a centralized singer / songwriter topic, where folks could share their latest homemade tunes and get opinions on their singing, compositions, etc. Has something similar been made before? More specific "hey check out my band" topics surface from time to time, but I've yet to see a "Community"-style thread on the subject. Entirely possible I missed it when it first came around, though.
On a related note, I've been mulling over the idea of a centralized singer / songwriter topic, where folks could share their latest homemade tunes and get opinions on their singing, compositions, etc. Has something similar been made before? More specific "hey check out my band" topics surface from time to time, but I've yet to see a "Community"-style thread on the subject. Entirely possible I missed it when it first came around, though.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
I'm still interested.
Maybe not what you were looking (not exclusively singer-focused) for but there is a music writers/composition thread. We even made a GAF mixtape of original songs recently. I'm on it
(instrumental song by me but still)
BlueBadger
Banned
I'm still down for the themes for sure :3
Also sounds like a cool idea! My EP is releasing next month and it would be totally cool to share the iTunes link and everything with some people!
SonofdonCD
Member
It was interesting watching the video, cause it has annotations that tell you in no uncertain terms many different things she's doing wrong. I kinda wanted to analyze her without being spoon-fed why she is such a bad singer. I didn't want to go on a big hunt for different clips of her without those annotations, as it was pretty late already. I'll look up her version of the Alicia Keys tune.
But like I said, the clips were rather short and low quality, so it was hard to do a really good assessment. Whatever played at the very end of the video, however, sounded horrible. I think worse than every other clip during it. I almost couldn't believe it was the same person.
I'll give you this much: she certainly needs some help!
I'm still down for the themes for sure :3
Also sounds like a cool idea! My EP is releasing next month and it would be totally cool to share the iTunes link and everything with some people!
Whoa, I'm bummed that I missed out on the GAF Tape! That's super cool. Thoroughly bookmarked for eventual listening pleasure.
What's wrong with instrumental tunes, Felix?!
That music composition thread seems like it will also be full of great tracks. Two! Two threads to bookmark today! Ah-ah-ah. Thanks for sharing those links. Seems like the time might be ripe for a new "Share Your Tunes!" though. Maybe style it with some optional monthly themes to encourage people to share and chat about each other's songs? I like that idea for a vocalism thread, could definitely work on a slightly larger scale for more developed self-written songs, too. Stuff to think about.
And congrats on releasing your EP soon, Badger! That's def exciting!
Here you go! And 3phemeral, listen to Ailee's! She also has one of the few good covers of I Will Always Love You. She gets choked up towards the end.
She's not SoHyallah, but she's still great.
Also, I don't really think that bad audio quality makes that much of a difference in terms of judging singers on the extremes. The really great singers sound great on sixty year old bootlegs, rehearsal tapes, and audience-recorded tour videos; the really terrible singers sound, well, terrible and it's not because the audio quality is doing them a disservice. I guess for figuring out more precisely what's wrong it hinders things, but not the general pronouncement of suckitude, basically.
Leona Lewis
Banned
So soulful! Even when she messes up (the lyrics, I mean), she's such a pro and gets right back into it~
I love her and she's so cute too xxoo
And she can ACTUALLY sing, of course you'll just choose the bad clips you mean baka gaijin tiramisu
flawless queen of korea tasty pork bun, haters to the left <3
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
My pleasure!
Considering that all of the music I write is instrumental? Not a damn thing! But you seemed be asking for a singer-songwriter thread not just a catch-all music production thread
EDIT: Oh and there we actually 6 other GAF albums previously entitled G.A.M.E. (Gaming Age Musica Electronia)
Leona, that's a disturbingly good imitation.
I already shared this with Leona, but I'd like to share with the rest of the class. Patti Labelle and the Bluebelles singing You'll Never Walk Alone in 1965. Compare and contrast with her singing You'll Never Walk Alone in 1985. I prefer 1985, myself, but 1965 is also fantastic and she's in particularly amazing voice there. And it's interesting to hear her sing like that.
Edit: Bonus: "I felt so sorry for poor Joe Cocker. Did Patti really have to do him like that?"
I already shared this with Leona, but I'd like to share with the rest of the class. Patti Labelle and the Bluebelles singing You'll Never Walk Alone in 1965. Compare and contrast with her singing You'll Never Walk Alone in 1985. I prefer 1985, myself, but 1965 is also fantastic and she's in particularly amazing voice there. And it's interesting to hear her sing like that.
Edit: Bonus: "I felt so sorry for poor Joe Cocker. Did Patti really have to do him like that?"
Patti just can't help herself
SonofdonCD
Member
I think in order for a vocalist singing thread to work, we have to plot out the rules and such. Mainly:
1. What genres of music will we tackle? When I think of singing and great vocalists, I personally think of genres such as R&B/Soul, some Pop, Jazz and Classical. I guess you can throw in some Country as well. There are some Rock artists that would qualify, but I find that in general Rock is more about the band than beautiful singing. But my personal opinion aside, we'd have to lock that down first.
2. How often would we do this? Once a week? Every two weeks? Monthly? And I'd assume that we'd change the genre each time. Maybe on a rotation of some sort. Like
Week 1: Classic Soul
Week 2: Current Pop
Week 3: Traditional Jazz
etc.
3. Will we allow for any song choice (within the chosen genre, of course), or will we all do the same tune, for an easier ability to compare and contrast? And if so, do we choose a different song for males and females? Unless we can find a song that sort of straddles both natural ranges, that would probably be for the best.
Off-track story for a sec: I once auditioned for Popstars season 2, the precursor to the Idol series. (I didn't intend to do so, as I was dragged to the audition by a friend who wanted to, but left before we got in cause he had to go to work!) There were three songs for the women (A Destiny's Child song which I forgot (maybe Bills Bills Bills, or Say My Name?), Nelly Furtado's I'm Like A Bird and Christina Aguilera's What A Girl Wants) and three for the men (Uncle Kracker's Follow Me, Smash Mouth's All Star and Joe's I Wanna Know). Horrible experience, BTW, but one of the male singers sang What A Girl Wants for his audition. Of course, he didn't get a call back.
4. Will we sing the song a cappella, or with some sort of backing track? Karaoke tracks?
I think if we can lock those things down, we can attempt this. If it's every month, or maybe even every two weeks, I might be willing to organize it.
1. What genres of music will we tackle? When I think of singing and great vocalists, I personally think of genres such as R&B/Soul, some Pop, Jazz and Classical. I guess you can throw in some Country as well. There are some Rock artists that would qualify, but I find that in general Rock is more about the band than beautiful singing. But my personal opinion aside, we'd have to lock that down first.
2. How often would we do this? Once a week? Every two weeks? Monthly? And I'd assume that we'd change the genre each time. Maybe on a rotation of some sort. Like
Week 1: Classic Soul
Week 2: Current Pop
Week 3: Traditional Jazz
etc.
3. Will we allow for any song choice (within the chosen genre, of course), or will we all do the same tune, for an easier ability to compare and contrast? And if so, do we choose a different song for males and females? Unless we can find a song that sort of straddles both natural ranges, that would probably be for the best.
Off-track story for a sec: I once auditioned for Popstars season 2, the precursor to the Idol series. (I didn't intend to do so, as I was dragged to the audition by a friend who wanted to, but left before we got in cause he had to go to work!) There were three songs for the women (A Destiny's Child song which I forgot (maybe Bills Bills Bills, or Say My Name?), Nelly Furtado's I'm Like A Bird and Christina Aguilera's What A Girl Wants) and three for the men (Uncle Kracker's Follow Me, Smash Mouth's All Star and Joe's I Wanna Know). Horrible experience, BTW, but one of the male singers sang What A Girl Wants for his audition. Of course, he didn't get a call back.
4. Will we sing the song a cappella, or with some sort of backing track? Karaoke tracks?
I think if we can lock those things down, we can attempt this. If it's every month, or maybe even every two weeks, I might be willing to organize it.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
1. I think any all genres should be given a go, but...
2. ...I'm not hot on the idea of genre weeks. I know myself, I'd have a really hard time trying to sing pop and jazz, and I don't think my voice really works with them. I'd rather take a page or two from the writing and poetry threads (no pun intended) and do like themes. Songs about "[insert emotion/idea/whatever]" or maybe ones that "highlight [insert singing technique here]". We could also just do the same song, too, though I hate to see us constantly doing only a handful of genres. A week for entries and a week/weekend for voting might be ideal in my eyes.
3. See my response to point 2; kinda covers my thoughts already.
4. I'm fine either way, though finding backing/karaoke tracks for some stuff may be hard (and against copyright? I'm not versed enough.)
SonofdonCD
Member
That is a good idea. I hadn't thought about voting.
Keep sending ideas, people. We might end up doing this just yet!
But also give your willingness as far as your want to do this, what styles of singing you're used to singing, as well as what you're willing to try that you haven't done before. I think that will help with setting it all up, like how and what we vote for each round.
SonofdonCD
Member
I know I've been replying a lot and have just quoted you twice in two different posts instead of editing my first one, but I thought it would be more appropriate to separate the different thoughts I had.
I understand perfectly about not feeling your voice would work in other genres. I don't think I can ever do the things that Hard Rock singers do. I cannot growl and make my voice gravelly like they do. I have no facility for it (nor the desire, quite frankly), so if it was decided that we would do that for the current round, I would probably bow out. I might be able to give my opinion, but not participate myself.
But I feel that in general, in a thread devoted to singing, we should be attempting to SING, you know? You might not think you've got the natural voice to sing Pop, but with some of us here in this thread encouraging you and giving advice, you might surprise yourself. I think that if anyone wants to pursue singing, they NEED to gain experience in multiple styles. It only helps you to be not only a better singer, but a better performer and a better all-around musician.
The other thought is themes based on the lyric. That works in a poetry/storytelling context. But if we are to judge singing, we need to judge more based on musical aspects of the performance, not the theme of the lyric. Lyrics are important in the performance of a song, but a song is nothing without the music. We could just have a person do a vocalese, where they don't sing on anything but vowels, and still be able to judge their technique. (Actually, that might make it easier to do so, as there's more clarity as to what you're doing vocally. I've had to sing passages of songs like all of the consonates were eliminated from the words, and only the vowels are left. It's an interesting exercise.)
I'm getting off-topic, but the point I'm trying to make is that if we were to do themes (that were not associated with genres or styles of music), it would have to be based not on lyrical content, but technique. So choose a song that utilizes a lot of falsetto/head voice, or stays within a certain range of notes, or has a belted out Tenor C, or has a lot of melismas/runs/riffs. I think the desire to do this is to improve on one's technique, not necessarily one's interpretation of the lyric (which is of course admirable, and something that should be pursued, but you need the basics down first).
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
What little singing I've done is mostly rock, usually metal, punk, and the like, as well has a very small bit of showtunes/musical numbers. My voice is more gravely and snarly than sonorous.
I also loathe most modern pop but that's another story, lol
).I didn't say I wouldn't try other genres, but I just wanted to voice my concern with not keeping the genre/style scope arbitrarily narrow. I didn't suggest lyric/song-emotion weeks as a 'judge the lyrics and their interpretation', alone or as a part of it, but I did so in the idea that you can judge their technicality, but there's no genre/style limits imposed and there's still a unifying theme for the competition. Judging the lyrics was never the idea; I did so manly because, yeah, while some of us will be great jazz singers, some of us will just not measure up really all that well, but may be much better in other facets. In the poetry threads where I'm a regular, we may impose optional secondary objectives for the poets that might restrict them stylistically, but we try not to force a poet who feels they want to write in a sonnet form, where they feel comfortable and skilled, into blank verse, where they might flounder. We leave it up to the poet on how best to tackle the theme with the tools in their toolbox and in their own way, letting them tread into unfamiliar territory if they so choose themselves.
Improvement is always the key, of course, and we should always be up for a challenge, but when it's tied to a characteristic of an individual that, as you said, "You either got it, or you don't! You can't really change [your natural singing voice and it's beauty/qualities] that much, or at least that dramatically," limits repeat competitors severely, especially if they really can't push out a pop or jazz or rock or country voice easily.
BlueBadger
Banned
Ahh thank you so much!! <3. I can still hardly believe it's happening tbh! :O. I'm so nervous/anxious/excited/everything haha!
SonofdonCD
Member
Understandable.
But I think one thing we need to establish is whether this should be considered a competition in the first place. I don't think it should. I think it should be under the context that this is done for self-discovery, self-improvement and fun. And of course to get some feedback from others, perhaps even some who know what they are talking about and can offer some pointers. I don't think there should be winners and losers at the end of it. I think that, more than anything, will make some less advanced singers not want to participate.
I feel like this thread should be a safe place for us to experiment and try out some new things, above and beyond everything else. That will make it a welcoming environment so that amateurs and first time public singers will want to participate. The context of a competition will probably scare them away.
And about genre/style, while in theory having everyone sing whatever style sounds good (and I think that maybe once we start, we should allow everyone to just submit something that they think they sound good on, no matter the genre) I don't think that would work every time. It becomes somewhat difficult to compare and contrast if everyone is singing stylistically very differently (one reason I suggested we sing the same song). Maybe something like every three or four rounds have some sort of free-for-all, but still couch it within some sort of theme. Like pick a slow ballad from the 1990's in any genre you like.
Anyway, we're talking in circles at this point. We need more input from everyone. It should be the decision for the collective to make.
Fourth Storm
Member
Yes, I'm of the opinion that a competition might be potentially discouraging for those looking to broaden their scope or learn different techniques. Productive criticism, on the other hand, should definitely be encouraged. Bah, I wish I had a better microphone to plug into my laptop. Maybe if this gets off the ground I'll invest in one. Anyone have suggestions for something in the $100 range? There's always the trusty SM58, but I'm not sure how good that would be for recording.
BlueBadger
Banned
For my singing vids on YouTube I use the Blue Yeti USB mic. It's been pretty good for a few years now. Although I think the cord is sorta bending outta shape so I might need a new one. And it could definitely do with a pop filter as well. (If you listen to my videos, the P's and S's are kinda hard sounding). Dunno if that helped at all! <3
Also, I don't know if you guys have brought her up at all yet, but I'm sure a lot of you already know who Christina Bianco is! I'm bringing her up not only because I think she has an incredible voice, but also because I'm so impressed at how strong her technique is even when she's impersonating other singers o___o. I'm someone who finds that if I ever try to impersonate another singer, my voice gets real tired real fast. Not to mention, some of her impressions are spot on IMO LOL! <3
Another video for reference!
Really nice cover of "Let It Go" on your tube page.
The plosives seem worse on your "All of me" cover. So you could definitely do with a pop shield. You can make one easily with a coat hanger and the material from pulling socks. As for the S's you can use the de'esser on your DAW software to tame them. The sound also sounds a bit distorted so make sure you're not clipping when you're recording yourself. Pay attention to your levels and make sure you give yourself enough headroom.
BlueBadger
Banned
Aww thanks a lot!!
And thanks for taking the time to check out my channel!!I'm.. Not super great at editing and garageband and stuff ;___;. It's a constant learning curve for me! LOL! Although a pop filter is definitely something I've been thinking of!!
BertramCooper
Banned
I have to sing at my cousin's wedding in two weeks. Not really looking forward to it, but my cousin is a sweetheart and I couldn't say no.
Once you sing at one relative's wedding, you end up singing at all of them. Oh, and funerals, too.
At least I don't have to sing country songs this time.
Once you sing at one relative's wedding, you end up singing at all of them. Oh, and funerals, too.
At least I don't have to sing country songs this time.
BlueBadger
Banned
The exact same thing has happened to me actually.. I've officially become my family and friends' "Wedding singer" LOL. I sang at my cousin's wedding when I was 15 and I've just been doing them (and funerals) ever since o____o!!
Good luck tho!! <3 I don't have another wedding to sing for another year or so now
. I did just do a funeral on Saturday though krypt0nian
Banned
Mumei, etc -
Has anyone run into any great resources on extending ones natural range? I've noticed that in singing again regularly ive been able to grab a fewer high and low end notes just from usage.
I'm a natural baritone, but elected to sing Bass as they were needed more when I joined, so I've really found a wonderful place and resonance for my ultra low notes in my ensemble work, we're expected to grab a wide variety of voice rangings as needed by the piece and any movement that the choreography entails so my high end is better.
But I'd like to grab the reigns and push forward, especially my high end so any resources would be lovely. I have found that there are days when things "click" and I've gained like 5-6 notes at the top full voice but I've never been in a position to explore that and see what I'm doing differently so they are short lived periods.
Also ways to I prove falsetto intonation would be cool too.
Thanks all!
PS - I'm wondering how much of range is inborn and how much can actually be attained by practice. Quite intersting.
Has anyone run into any great resources on extending ones natural range? I've noticed that in singing again regularly ive been able to grab a fewer high and low end notes just from usage.
I'm a natural baritone, but elected to sing Bass as they were needed more when I joined, so I've really found a wonderful place and resonance for my ultra low notes in my ensemble work, we're expected to grab a wide variety of voice rangings as needed by the piece and any movement that the choreography entails so my high end is better.
But I'd like to grab the reigns and push forward, especially my high end so any resources would be lovely. I have found that there are days when things "click" and I've gained like 5-6 notes at the top full voice but I've never been in a position to explore that and see what I'm doing differently so they are short lived periods.
Also ways to I prove falsetto intonation would be cool too.
Thanks all!
PS - I'm wondering how much of range is inborn and how much can actually be attained by practice. Quite intersting.
krypt0nian
Banned
Mumei doesn't love me anymore? :'(
krypt0nian
Banned
Oh gods, my heart is well and truly broken for you. If you knew me better than you do, you'd know how gutted I am for you, and my heart goes out to you now, please know that.
Ugh...
((((((Oh dear, I'm so sorry, Mumei. My condolences.
I'm not sure if you can change what you're already naturally capable of, but that's not to say you weren't ever capable of it to begin with - you might just have never learned to use it. I imagine you just have to take a train-and-see approach. The advice I've read and watched all point to similar techniques when you're extending above your normal range, that is:
1) Make sure you use very little air,
2) Use small vocalizations to produce a sound, and
3) Sing softly as you go up the scale.
4) Allow the resonance to naturally shift from your chest to your head naturally.
This video advises that you work on your middle range to loosen up the cords to sing more comfortably in higher ranges.
BlueBadger
Banned
Mumei...I'm so sorry for your loss ;____;. I know firsthand how devastating that can be. Please let me know if you need anything at all!!!
Unfortunately most of my reading on singing has been less about how to do it and more about how it works, so I couldn't tell you. I found this video series interesting, despite his reference to nasal resonance (no such thing!); maybe there's something about extending your upper register there.
I think that your potential range is inborn, and then practice is what allows you to achieve your best potential, assuming you aren't one of those savants who just naturally has correct placement. And there are be natural limits in terms of the quality of what you produce based on your voice type. It would not matter how much, say, Ingeborg Hallstein practiced; she was never going to have her low B sound like Ewa Podleś' B3. Similarly, a man's mixed A5 is never going to sound as effortless as a woman's, assuming they both are singing to the best of their ability.
I read a biography about Callas recently, where it talks about how she didn't really have high notes at one point, and she was singing as a mezzo-soprano; I know it's been suggested that the center of her voice was that of a dramatic mezzo-soprano, and that by talent and industry she worked to extend the upper limits of her range. Caruso originally sang as a baritone before making the transition to tenor, too.
krypt0nian
Banned
Thanks all. You've given me things to research.
Cheers!
Cheers!
Leona Lewis
Banned
Wow, this woman's demonstration is the most impressive example of overtone singing I've ever seen.
SonofdonCD
Member
Since I'm not sure how the mods would take to me making a thread about this, and I can't think of any other existing thread that this would make sense to post in, here is a video of one of my bands performing an acoustic cover of Hozier's Take Me To Church. We had only rehearsed it one day prior to the day we shot this take. Did it all at once, without edits. Took a few times to do it without mistakes or random interruptions. I'm playing percussion/background vocals.
http://youtu.be/LviICy7jmag
I might have a few other songs/videos to share in a bit. I'll see what I can dig up.
http://youtu.be/LviICy7jmag
I might have a few other songs/videos to share in a bit. I'll see what I can dig up.
FelixOrion
Poet Centuriate
I've really been getting into the Black Dahlia Murder recently, mainly because I'm finding Trevor Strnad to be a really fascinating vocalist that's really grown on me. I used to kinda not like him, because I think I was expecting a vocalist in a band like tBDM to rely on traditional lower growls rather than the normally more accessory-like higher screams, but I'm glad I gave them a second chance. His really slimy, snarly scream is really fun to listen to. Last year's album, Everblack, was really killer (pun kinda intended).
"In Hell is Where She Waits For Me"
"What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse"
"Moonlight Equilibrium"
"In Hell is Where She Waits For Me"
"What a Horrible Night to Have a Curse"
"Moonlight Equilibrium"
BlueBadger
Banned
So I filmed my vocal cords with my iphone camera recently o_o
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
I am now part of this thread!
...... how
Leona Lewis
Banned
I, too, am curious.
Did you use the slow motion feature too?
Were you just singing scales? Unless you have some weird ability to speak with your lips entirely independent of your cords.
A curious crowd concernedly waits.
Were you just singing scales? Unless you have some weird ability to speak with your lips entirely independent of your cords.
A curious crowd concernedly waits.
BlueBadger
Banned
Well.. I sanitized my phone (before and after) and stuck it in, lens first.. (I have a really big mouth). And Umm.. I just phonated on a single pitch o////o.
Maybe what I'll do when I get home is make it a private video on YouTube and link it!
Explaining it to my parents when they walked in on me was interesting x_x LOL
Go on...
But if you're using the slow-motion function, ti would definitely be interesting. Although, I've seen it before (headphone warning), it's both kind of weird and fascinating all at the same time.
BlueBadger
Banned
Okay. I uploaded it x___X
http://youtu.be/shLBHemWVHc
It becomes clearer towards the end of the video since I filmed this a couple months ago when I still had my massive tonsils! I recently got those out.
I'm sorry X_X
It says private. =P
I think maybe the setting you're going for is Unlisted? Although, I'm not sure how private mode works when sharing videos.
BlueBadger
Banned
It says private. =P
I think maybe the setting you're going for is Unlisted? Although, I'm not sure how private mode works when sharing videos.
Fixed it! LOL
http://youtu.be/shLBHemWVHc
Thanks. And yup, those are vocal cords. I wouldn't be able to do that without gagging for one and for two, with all the improper singing I've done and while extremely sick with a super inflamed throat, I wouldn't want to know how my vocal cords turned out. *_*
BlueBadger
Banned
I feel you! When I still had my tonsils, my throat was always red and swollen LOL. I might also have an acid reflux issue which im getting tested for in a couple weeks (tube down my nose into my stomach for 24 hours).. And I had a polyp on my vocal fold when I was really little and got it removed when I was 16.
Things have smoothed out a lot now though. Good timing since my EP released recently! Getting my tonsils out helped so much, because they've caused me so much grief with singing LOL
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