-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Skill Up Feat. Digital Foundry - PS5 Pro Deep Dive
- Thread starter saintjules
- Start date
Fess
Member
Yeah he’s great, has his priorities in check, always has been. And he’s the least fanboy of the bunch. He says here, when they, and especially the woman, start being overly negative on the Pro and consoles and positive on PC gaming, that he’s enjoying all the worlds. Not skipping anything. That’s how it should be. I too try to be everywhere, I don’t like being salty, got a 4090 desktop PC, 4080S couch PC, PS5 Pro, couple Steam Decks, bunch of Switches, Series X and Gamepass sub. I miss nothing, unless I deliberately choose to miss it for whatever reason.
Surprised that John switched on the Enhanced old games feature, he was positive about that at first, applauding how well 2D games got enhanced. Now he didn’t like it. But it seemed limited in how many games that used it so maybe that was it.
Lots of interesting info on how Digital Foundry came to be at the start. Richard was a writer on CVG unless I missunderstood that. What a legend.
Great section for Stalker 2 in the middle as well. Completely hand crafted open world. Seems awesome. It’ll be my first Stalker game, can’t wait, really rooting for those guys.
Last edited:
PixelatedBeast
Member
How do you know that? What reputable data are you using that distinguishes that, when the monthly sales charts we do get explicitly states when games sales are from physical or digital? When has that ever been in quetion? Physical vs digital is literally one of the first questions answered when sales charts are released, so people dont get the two mixed up. So its not heavily skewed. When has any publisher ever released a sales chart for "Free" 2 play games, lol? You mean the monthy PSN downloads....that is separate from the sales data that NPD tracks? You're conflicting the two.
Its not just a blueray player, its a 4k blueray player, and one google search shows they arent even priced under $100 unless you're buying used. The average price Im seeing show its between $150 and 230.00. Im not seeing any cheap ass 4k blueray players for less than the one Sony sells for the PS5. You a have a link?
They actually didnt remove the option to go physical, you can still buy a disc drive and buy physical games. You still have that option, but the majority of Playstation console sales are the disc drive PS5s, and yet people overwhelmingly "choose" to buy digital games instead. The data shows most people prefer to buy digital. So even with the option to buy physical, digital sales grow more and more every year. This shouldnt even be a surprise, physical media is dying. It doesnt even make sense to think Sony is forcing consumers to buy digital when they stand to benefit more if people buy games on a disc, lol.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
For real. And his long form content is absolutely spectacular. I’m a big fan of DF overall, and I truly don’t get the hate.
alstrike
Member
Richard's teeth are
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Girl in video: "if I have a 4090 pc connected to my tv - what can PS5 Pro offer?"
Exclusives, (and better HDR) that's it.
For the millions of people who can't afford or don't want a pc connected to their tv, there's a lot of value in a PS5 Pro
I think the ps5 Pro needs to prove it's value becuase for me it would literally just be for ff7 which isn't justified right now.
I would be getting it for Sony exclusives and there's onky ghosts on the horizon and I don't know when that is.
Team Andromeda
Member
LOL John both the best and worst.
Its said whats happened to DF they've become a bit of a joke
Team Andromeda
Member
He's British. what do you expect?
We Brits care more about the stiff upper lip than our teeth
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
You forget that there are many non-monetary reasons why someone plays on a console vs pc. I have a good pc and could afford a better one but I still prefer console gaming.Girl in video: "if I have a 4090 pc connected to my tv - what can PS5 Pro offer?"
Exclusives, (and better HDR) that's it.
For the millions of people who can't afford or don't want a pc connected to their tv, there's a lot of value in a PS5 Pro
If you gave me 4090 for free tomorrow, nothing would change.
jm89
Member
Probably nothing, but then again she isn't the target audience so people like her are irrelevant to sony really.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
It's not going to prove it's value. You expect too much.
if you need it's value being proved to you, it's not a product for you. It's an upgrade machine for Sony fanboys and that's ok.
We know what we are going into, ps4 pro also didn't do anything spectacular and did even less for non-patched games.
This time around, at least most games use dynamic res, so you get that.
Besides, to convince you, try some other games than only ff7. RE4 remake runs like on good pc, Dead Rising remake is 4k60 with exclusive rt feature. Stellar blade is a nice upgrade. Forspoken is surprisingly higher res now.
I would say it's a decent upgrade but nothing crazy. The ps5 was already good and it was all up to devs to make it not suck (not use fsr2 by default). Now these lazy fucks, can slap on pssr rather than fsr2 and that's a win...
Killjoy-NL
Member
Sony's products don't seem to have much issues selling though.The price of the Ps6 is going to be interesting. There will be a cross-over point that could kill the Playstation, but we'll have to see if it ever reaches it. One thing's for sure, if Sony continue with their current greedy ways, and a decent PC rig becomes more viable at a lower price because games aren't really pushing the hardware enough anymore...
Portal was labeled overpriced and is selling very well.
PS5 Pro also is labeled overpriced, yet seems to be selling well too.
PS6 will also sell well.
Last edited:
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
But ps5 pro is absolutely not overpriced.
You got 1tb+ more of ssd, pssr chip and up to about 50% more performance. the thing is silent and smaller than og ps5. it's fine.
If anything, it is too cheap. It's cheap enough that casuals, who have to justify every $, get their hands on it. If it was more expensive and just enthusiasts got it, we wouldn't be having these stupid conversations.
It's like someone going into 4090 thread and saying that $ per Frame does not add up.
Killjoy-NL
Member
I agree with you, I'm just going along with what some are saying.
Because despite their complaints, these systems are selling well.
FunkMiller
Banned
No argument they’re selling fine… at the moment.
PaintTinJr
Member
I get your point, but the main point of losing an integrated disc drive by default on console and then being at the whims of zero store competition to pay 70-80 for old games that John was able to source for new at 15 on disc isn't inverted by them being rich influencers - that may or may not need a PC with a RTX 4090 for accelerated video editing.
The discussion they were having exactly mimics the discussion around my serious gamer friends that are the target market for a Pro, them having bought every system - all like John Linneman level gamers - for decades and been lured away by Nvidia/DF PC sentiment and are most offended by the loss of integrated disc drive and the gouging of a £5 BoM drive. And most of them aren't rich by comparison to PlayStation's income stats, just they would prioritize gaming over other things in life to find the money for a RTX 4080/4090 Pc or a Pro if the need to enjoy gaming on it was perceivably there for them.
I think the Pro launch strategy is tone deaf by Sony on the lack of digital pricing competition while forcing that path by de-integrating the drive.
Even a strategy that allowed 3rd party stores on the console to sell licenses of games that were at least 6months old but optionally downloadable and itemised in the PSN back-end after purchase - for a PlayStation fixed £1.50 cost - would fix the problem and replicate the PC store pricing beyond the launch of games.
Last edited:
The PS5 Pro could become $800 or $850 soon because of tariffs (Trump wants a 20% tariff)
PaintTinJr
Member
That just isn't happening. The race to 10-20m units is still the focus to return 3rd parties a platform to viably sell games on that keep them in business.
I expect a move to ML AI is also less latency restricted, so scaling out in a mesh of ML AI processors to help a PS5 Pro level base(in a PS6) but with very fast southbridge IO interfaces or less high performance north bridges NPUs is likely the cost effective solution to scale out using older lithographies and make a huge generational leap at the same time.
The bigger issue is whether the drive is de-integrated as the locked in digital pricing is where the real cost is coming, IMO.
Last edited:
The solution. Put up factories in USA. Made in USA Ps5. And that will even help create jobs in USA and Sony can still make a profit and sales. Win win situation for both. Excellent strategy. Foreign dont want to lose the USA market because its very big consumer market, so they will do there best not to lose it by for example building more factories in USA.
Agree with you that having more domestic manufacturing would be great
But fundamentally Sony is a Japanese / Asian company. It wouldn’t make sense for Sony to manufacture in the US. Maybe Microsoft could do domestic manufacturing, but a fully US manufactured Xbox would probably cost $2,000 or even more
PaintTinJr
Member
For environmental reasons that would need to be in states where Sony could grow sustainable and renewable bamboo trees with low land costs to maintain their ecologically conscious packaging for those 50-60m consoles, and the time to make their automated factories anywhere else - which wouldn't bring that many jobs - and might be longer than an incumbent's term in office that might be tied to those tariff changes.
I think they would just take the financial hit, instead.
US citizens would take the financial hit in the case of tariffs, not Sony
Off topic: Well Toyota has factories in USA. I think for me, its a great economic strategy for USA to impose tarrifs because the after effect is companies from other countries( and most especially USA companies that outsource too much to other countries )will have to bring there business to USA. This will be helpfullu especially to bring back jobs, because companies around the world will never want to lose the USA consumer market which is still bigger than China in terms of value and profitability. Even China relies on USA market, so even China companies or other countries will have to have business and factories be build in USA if tarrifs for imported goods comes. ( Just be carefull with the spies of course
)Greenville? South Carolina? North Carolina ?
PaintTinJr
Member
Yes, but it would be a product subsidy of eg $67 at the BoM, where Ps6 might be a $400 BoM, but it would be sold as an item in the US with a $333 BoM equivalent, so the tariff gave parity before choosing a global set of sales prices. Everyone else in ripe PlayStation markets without the tariffs would likely get charged proportionally more to cover that subsidy of the US market IMO.
LMAO I'll take "Shit that is never happening and anyone thinks is happening have no understanding of supply chains" for $500, Alex.
Humdinger
Gold Member
I take it that nothing interesting or new is talked about, since all the discussion here is focused on who to hate and Richard's teeth.
PaintTinJr
Member
It is only the first 40mins with John.
From memory in no particular order.
There was some personal info John shared early doors how he ended up living in Europe. Some info about how they had PS5 and XsX 3 weeks before launch to make content, whereas both DF and Skillsup got their Pros just a week before launch with an embargo up until Richard's unboxing tutorial.
DF team only had enough Pro units for half the team and so just covered what they were interested in about the launch because of such little time and equipment.
John gave his opinion that the X1X was the most powerful console in the previous gen, and thinks DLSS is the best ML AI solution but feels PSSR is a good start and changing quickly. He thinks the Pro ability to bring RT to Alan Wake 2 on console is good, having had the feature skip the OG PS5.
He mentions all Capcom games with unlocked frame-rate can synch consistently at 120fps on the Pro, and he even said the performance on Elden Ring is the best on Pro despite still having issue. He played it originally on XsX and still hasn't played the DLC.
They talked about how the small set of games that pre-date the PS4 Pro far enough to not have PS4 Pro support(Bloodborne as an example) get upscaled on PS5 and he doesn't like it, said it adds no more effective resolution and aliasing issues remain even if 2D HUDs and sprites gained from it.
He and Skillsup both agreed anyone asking for advice on should I get a PS5 or PS5 pro should probably just get a PS5, as they wouldn't need the advice if they were the target market for the Pro, and would know it was for them.
Probably loads of other general chat stuff I've forgot. Was an ok listen IMO.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Why are we mad at skill up? Shill up? Really?
PaintTinJr
Member
The UK temporary price cut was probably to move an abundance of stock at retailers, which I doubt they bothered to replace after the price returned. Or it was by Sony to test the market to price sensitivity in the UK and they found that price wasn't the issue and then let the price return to normal, or Sony Direct got too many returns for users to get on the discount.
Normally my phone randomly blows up for one or two spells around the launch of new hardware like VR2, Portal as I get, "Just got one of these, did you get one yet?" messages, and this time with the Pro it has been crickets, and I've bumped into them in the week, with confirmation none of us have bothered this time.
My phone sporadically blew up for days around the Pro reveal with people telling me to skip it. So anecdotally I have my doubts it is even doing ok numbers in the UK currently.
Last edited:
Killjoy-NL
Member
Similar things were said about PS Portal.
And there's the question to what are we comparing it? Regular PS5 sales? Because PS5 Pro is aimed at a minority of hardcore gamers.
For now, it seems to be on par with, if not slightly better than PS4 Pro launch.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
Nope.
MikeM
Member
I think the console market and PC market are different types of players. Those who want to play on either platform are already established there and unlikely to move.
Agreed. Steam surveys show the most popular GPUs are the 3060/4060 series by quite a margin.
Good point. I see Windows all day, every day for work. Lately, I don’t want to see more Windows on my PC and have been cruising with the Pro.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I guess it's funny seeing you guys fight over who is the worst at DF when the answer is so obvious:
They are all the worst.
They are all the worst.
D
Deleted member 848825
Unconfirmed Member
The early part of the show was very much a "lets all wank each other off" piece. But I do think they are right to mention the disc drive and price point. And the girl was right in bringing up currency disparity on things like the disc drive. Fair enough. But they then lost me when they start going on about 4090 rigs and not appreciating what the Pro brings for others. Skillup also using "everyone thinks" multiple times. Which is a poor way to add weight to an argument.
I think they should of had Richard on and then they could have all got miserably depressed together.
Nothing of value for me in it unfortunately.
PaintTinJr
Member
All of those same people I know bought and enjoyed the PS4 Pro at its launch, and I personally bought the Portal and it has been good, and at least 2 of 4 of those people would happily get a Portal if cheaper.
The Friends Per Second video chat is identical in sentiment to the Pro I'm seeing in my own group, so unless the overall or Pro console market is expanding I have a hunch the sentiment is wide spread and UK pro sales are falling off a cliff.
PicoLordens
Member
I do have both. An enthusiast PC (4090,Ryzen 7950x3d) and a PS5 Pro and I prefer sitting comfortably on the couch and gaming on my PS5 Pro. I'm just not much of PC player. (PC located in my sons room). I do compare tho. Got Alan Wake 2 together with the GPU and bought it for PS5 as well just to compare.
MaKTaiL
Member
Oliver is literally the worst of them.
Chairman Yang
if he talks about books, you better damn well listen
Disliking anyone at Digital Foundry absolutely blows my mind; they're some of the best video game commentators ever, especially John with his focus on retro/retro-style stuff. Is this like a console wars thing?
Bojji
Member
100%.
Lysandros
Member
Alex is genuinely the most obvious and generous one at generating reasons for people to dislike him. Not necessarily about his PC/console biases and blatant/fervent dislike of Sony, for myself, i tend to dislike arrogant, pseudo elitist types in general.
Mr.ODST
Member
Its because people use what DF says on here when they praise Sony on stuff but when they don't, they are shills and the worst people ever.
Funny as fuck the fallout
Fess
Member
I have my 4080S 7800x3D connected to the same TV as the PS5 Pro, and it’s booting into Steam big picture mode and I only use a controller. So very similar to a console experience.
Both still have their reasons to exist.
And every scenario where there is an -only added after a platform it leads to salt. Playstation-only, PC-only. And I don’t like that.
So I use the PC for multiplatform titles and Xbox games and good Sony 1st party ports to get a higher end experience and mods.
Then I use the Pro when there is no PC port or if it’s delayed too much or have issues.
And my Pro has no coil whine and that’s a huge upgrade for me from my base PS5, makes it so much more enjoyable.
Killjoy-NL
Member
I think this is one of those things that we can only really conclude at the end of this gen.
PS4 Pro sold ~10% of total PS4 sales, so at the end of this gen we should look at how PS5 Pro performed.
PicoLordens
Member
I mostly use it for games that ain't coming to Ps5 or way later. Games pass is always good. Played Hellblade 2. Got Starfield for like tenner in a local store and plan on playing Stalker 2 via gamepass. I have another PC hooked to my TV but hardwise it's on PS4 pro level. But still.. Not much of a PC gamer.