It's a great practice- and it's shown results already.
It's too bad bigger companies can't do this.
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Skullgirls |OT| New age of Heroines
- Thread starter SolarPowered
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It's a great practice- and it's shown results already.
It's too bad bigger companies can't do this.
Huw_Dawson
Member
I believe it's final, pending users whinging?
Magna_Mixalis
Member
Anyone get their Evo shirts yet? For some reason my order is still awaiting fulfillment. Will probably drop 86 a line today, but was curious if everyone is still waiting, or if it's just me.
What's being called "stun" in these patchnotes is the undizzy mechanic. I haven't messed with the beta in a week or two, but the compromise seems to be a somewhat more aggressive IPS scaling combined with undizzy/stun building after a certain stage.
Undizzy is in.
You don't start accumulating stun until IPS stage 5.
350 stun max then you get the burst.
Will reduce from max in 60f when not in hitstun, blockstun
Knockdowns that result in the opponent rising reset the stun back to 0
Karsticles
Member
Why can't this be simple. -_-
Interesting.
Now if only I could land a combo longer than 12 hits without fucking up ;_;
I'm pretty sure they print on demand, which means slower shipping times.
Magna_Mixalis
Member
Okay. I'll just wait, then. I thought it was just post Evo/SDCC lag.
SolarPowered
Member
I have no idea what the fourth line means. Put simply... all of this means combos are much shorter than before.
Are you playing the game? I'm curious about whether or not you've improved.
Who is giving you so much trouble? It can't be Parasoul, Peacock or Cerebella.
darkblade77
Member
It means it takes 60 frames of not being hit or blocking a hit for stun to start depleting. So any extended combo with an un-reactable(if still predictable) reset is still going to run into undizzy.
I haven't asked recently, but I think Mike is trying to break up the current dynamic where an optimized combo is something that can reach ToD-level damage, but also comes with favorable opportunities to reset the scaling at no real penalty once the return wears thin at the end.
If it works as (what I think is) intended, 'when to reset' will become a much more valuable decision that the attacker has to make. Also burst bait setups will become more prevalent.
Heh, any character really. I'm just not a combo oriented kind of guy. I tried to run solo Squigly for a while, because I can half-complete her combos and go for a cool reset, but I can't really beat offense (Filia/Double) or defense(Peacock/Double)-heavy teams. This is a problem.
Even doing something like "only let three air hits land, wait to land, link stand short" is just an absolute nightmare for a player like me. Or switching up ground chains, or switching up air chains, or omitting pieces of air chains.
It also doesn't help that Squigly is the only character in the roster that I like.
I got mine on Saturday.
Heh, any character really. I'm just not a combo oriented kind of guy. I tried to run solo Squigly for a while, because I can half-complete her combos and go for a cool reset, but I can't really beat offense (Filia/Double) or defense(Peacock/Double)-heavy teams. This is a problem.
Even doing something like "only let three air hits land, wait to land, link stand short" is just an absolute nightmare for a player like me. Or switching up ground chains, or switching up air chains, or omitting pieces of air chains.
It also doesn't help that Squigly is the only character in the roster that I like.
I'm having similar issues. I'm not combo heavy, and it's the most irritating thing in the world to put up with 15-20 second combos (Valentine is the worst offender in general). I'm ok with the resets, it's a bit like VF in that regard.
Squigly divekick spam is irritating as well, though air throws can beat that.
SolarKnight
Member
DiscoShark
Banned
It's not, or at least it's not if Squigly is using any version she can combo off of it. HK Divekick is directly punishable on block, MK Divekick leaves her minus on block so if she's not blocking afterwards she's going to be counterhit by something. LK Divekick is the only Divekick that's legitimately safe.
SolarKnight
Member
Speaking of the HK kick, did they add recovery to it compared to when the beta realeased to make comboing into jMK impossible/harder? I didn't pay enough attention to the patch notes and haven't been able to do that since EVO :T
DiscoShark
Banned
The only change to HK Divekick (to my knowledge) is that it was buffed so that it wouldn't use up one's Stagger state in a combo.
No one knows, not even us.
As soon as all the DLC content is complete and tested, we'll submit it to Sony and Microsoft. When it's out depends on how well those submissions go.
And we're going to hold back the story mode and stage on the PC version until the console patches are out, just to avoid spoilers. But Squigly will be playable on the PC version at launch.
DiscoShark
Banned
Messing around in training with various Squigly stuff. The damage numbers for specials seem to be in a good place, QCF+LK doesn't do more damage than literally every other stance special as well as giving her a safe way to end block strings and combo off of different things. LOVE the new hitboxes on Palm as they have much more horizontal range. I'm also really happy with where the damage output increase is at with Opera.
As for Undizzy I find it's not really affecting many of the things Im doing outside of combos off of assists, throws, and DHCs. I can still hit the undizzy cap with long Painwheel combos but from a reset point of view I can still rapidfire a lot of different resets while barely adding additional stun to whatever I'm doing.
Ravidrath has gone on record saying that there's a good shot that the PC release of Skullgirls won't have Squigly's story mode / NPC related shenanigans completed by August 22nd, given that this stuff will need to be completed before the console patch is out I think you're looking at a solid Mid-Late September for the release of Squigly (potentially lobbies as well?) on console.
After that's taken care of I think you can expect about 3 months between each release of a DLC character once they start trickling out.
Edit : Or nobody knows!
As for Undizzy I find it's not really affecting many of the things Im doing outside of combos off of assists, throws, and DHCs. I can still hit the undizzy cap with long Painwheel combos but from a reset point of view I can still rapidfire a lot of different resets while barely adding additional stun to whatever I'm doing.
Ravidrath has gone on record saying that there's a good shot that the PC release of Skullgirls won't have Squigly's story mode / NPC related shenanigans completed by August 22nd, given that this stuff will need to be completed before the console patch is out I think you're looking at a solid Mid-Late September for the release of Squigly (potentially lobbies as well?) on console.
After that's taken care of I think you can expect about 3 months between each release of a DLC character once they start trickling out.
Edit : Or nobody knows!
Thanks, man. Looking forward to the new characters. I might have to just double-dip and buy it on PC too, just to already play Squiggly.
Huw_Dawson
Member
New patch:
I can't hold all of these patches.
I can't hold all of these patches.
Thomasorus
Member
I really enjoy playing on the new meridian roof stage. All the other stages are inside building or at night (well except mapplecrest), and having this big blue sky makes me keep calm during the fight.
Does anyone want to play some matches on the beta ? You can add me on steam : thomasorus and we'll go inside a region where there is nobody most of the time. I would like to train a Ms. Fortune / Squiggly team but I suck, I have no combos, and my resets are bad.
Does anyone want to play some matches on the beta ? You can add me on steam : thomasorus and we'll go inside a region where there is nobody most of the time. I would like to train a Ms. Fortune / Squiggly team but I suck, I have no combos, and my resets are bad.
I really enjoy playing on the new meridian roof stage. All the other stages are inside building or at night (well except mapplecrest), and having this big blue sky makes me keep calm during the fight.
Does anyone want to play some matches on the beta ? You can add me on steam : thomasorus and we'll go inside a region where there is nobody most of the time. I would like to train a Ms. Fortune / Squiggly team but I suck, I have no combos, and my resets are bad.
I just added you as a friend. I probably suck worse than you do though.
I really enjoy playing on the new meridian roof stage. All the other stages are inside building or at night (well except mapplecrest), and having this big blue sky makes me keep calm during the fight.
Does anyone want to play some matches on the beta ? You can add me on steam : thomasorus and we'll go inside a region where there is nobody most of the time. I would like to train a Ms. Fortune / Squiggly team but I suck, I have no combos, and my resets are bad.
I'll add you bros when I get home. Also I enjoy the Casino stage music a lot more so I stick to that one.
Karsticles
Member
I have been busy with the move and such, unfortunately.
The one with the hat is Matt. Pat isn't there missing, the one who was actually playing MGR. The other one is Woolie, who's kind of a third best friend. He was originally involved in Fighterpedia and Best Friends Brawls, but has started appearing more regularly in TBF.
DiscoShark
Banned
I'm gonna pose a question to the good folk on Neogaf.
Does the power of Squigly's Divekick make Squigly a far less interesting character? (Thanks to Thomosaur / SG IRC for helping me get my thoughts down on the subject)
I think Squigly has a problem. No, I don't think she's unbalanced or fundamentally game breaking in anything she's bringing to the table but I think the power of a single move has stripped an otherwise interesting character from the mechanics that make her interesting. I'm talking about Divekick, it is a move I feel that skews the Risk/Reward in such a dramatic way that there becomes far less incentive to use many of the other tools for which the character is supposed to be based.
Divekick makes Squigly's grounded overhead obsolete. It's a pretty straightforward point, why would I bother with doing an overhead which requires I be very close to my opponent in order to make use of when I can simply do any sort of stance cancel, jump, and immediately cancel into an overhead Divekick? My Divekick will move me forward and give me ample time to combo my opponent afterward without having to worry about wasting a stagger flag with comboing into Silver Chord, dealing with stance cancels, or having to worry about my combo now starting off in Stage 3. There's no reason to be using Overhead in situations where you can stance cancel at any time to jump and Divekick.
Divekick is almost always your best frame trap option. Yeah, you can use the occasional one inch punch, arpeggio, or stance cancel -> normal but no other move is going to allow you to get a full combo (not starting off at Stage 3) off of such a low risk move and allow you to continue pressure immediately afterwards.
I want to make something clear, I don't think Squigly becomes unbalanced or overpowered because of the power of Divekick, I think she becomes far less INTERESTING because of the power of Divekick. The problem as I see it is that Divekick simply does too much for her offensive game to the point where a well designed and fundamentally interesting character is made much more linear, much more straightforward, and much more boring than she probably should be given the nature of her moveset.
How to Fix this (meant to be taken case by case rather than a comprehensive list of everything that should be changed):
-Potentially removing overhead properties or disabling overhead properties when activating Divekick while moving up (Thanks Pizzarino)
Effect : Instantly makes grounded overhead a more useful tool
-Increasing max height in order to activate Divekick
Effect : Incentives use of other stance based specials / stance cancel-> normal moves for frametraps, Divekick becomes less useful for blowing up throw techs and a less useful frametrap tool. Player now has to rely on a larger range of her moveset in order to be effective.
-MK Divekick made significantly more unsafe on block ( lol no, too dramatic )
Effect : De-incentivize as staple of her pressure, inherent risk of using move to balance every other reward there is with using it.
Shame we couldn't get any matches in but I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation anyway.
Does the power of Squigly's Divekick make Squigly a far less interesting character? (Thanks to Thomosaur / SG IRC for helping me get my thoughts down on the subject)
I think Squigly has a problem. No, I don't think she's unbalanced or fundamentally game breaking in anything she's bringing to the table but I think the power of a single move has stripped an otherwise interesting character from the mechanics that make her interesting. I'm talking about Divekick, it is a move I feel that skews the Risk/Reward in such a dramatic way that there becomes far less incentive to use many of the other tools for which the character is supposed to be based.
Divekick makes Squigly's grounded overhead obsolete. It's a pretty straightforward point, why would I bother with doing an overhead which requires I be very close to my opponent in order to make use of when I can simply do any sort of stance cancel, jump, and immediately cancel into an overhead Divekick? My Divekick will move me forward and give me ample time to combo my opponent afterward without having to worry about wasting a stagger flag with comboing into Silver Chord, dealing with stance cancels, or having to worry about my combo now starting off in Stage 3. There's no reason to be using Overhead in situations where you can stance cancel at any time to jump and Divekick.
Divekick is almost always your best frame trap option. Yeah, you can use the occasional one inch punch, arpeggio, or stance cancel -> normal but no other move is going to allow you to get a full combo (not starting off at Stage 3) off of such a low risk move and allow you to continue pressure immediately afterwards.
I want to make something clear, I don't think Squigly becomes unbalanced or overpowered because of the power of Divekick, I think she becomes far less INTERESTING because of the power of Divekick. The problem as I see it is that Divekick simply does too much for her offensive game to the point where a well designed and fundamentally interesting character is made much more linear, much more straightforward, and much more boring than she probably should be given the nature of her moveset.
How to Fix this (meant to be taken case by case rather than a comprehensive list of everything that should be changed):
-Potentially removing overhead properties or disabling overhead properties when activating Divekick while moving up (Thanks Pizzarino)
Effect : Instantly makes grounded overhead a more useful tool
-Increasing max height in order to activate Divekick
Effect : Incentives use of other stance based specials / stance cancel-> normal moves for frametraps, Divekick becomes less useful for blowing up throw techs and a less useful frametrap tool. Player now has to rely on a larger range of her moveset in order to be effective.
-MK Divekick made significantly more unsafe on block ( lol no, too dramatic )
Effect : De-incentivize as staple of her pressure, inherent risk of using move to balance every other reward there is with using it.
I really enjoy playing on the new meridian roof stage. All the other stages are inside building or at night (well except mapplecrest), and having this big blue sky makes me keep calm during the fight.
Does anyone want to play some matches on the beta ? You can add me on steam : thomasorus and we'll go inside a region where there is nobody most of the time. I would like to train a Ms. Fortune / Squiggly team but I suck, I have no combos, and my resets are bad.
Shame we couldn't get any matches in but I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation anyway.
Actually, if anyone else wants to play just add me, and we can work out the details.
Didn't play enough to tell but it could be. I remember a lot of People hating Killer Frost in Injustice because all she uses is the slide because of how it is.
Thinking about Squigly's divekick, I agree with the assessment that it's the all-purpose approach weapon. But if it's nerfed, her chances of defeating Peacock might actually be zero.
I wouldn't mind accepting a nerf to the divekick to make her a more interesting varied character but something would have to be done about the Peacock matchup. As it is now she can't pull off any full-screen threats and none of her mid-screen threats are even close to the threat that the divekick does against Peacock.
I wouldn't mind accepting a nerf to the divekick to make her a more interesting varied character but something would have to be done about the Peacock matchup. As it is now she can't pull off any full-screen threats and none of her mid-screen threats are even close to the threat that the divekick does against Peacock.
I thought Squiggly was supposed to hard counter peacock due to Sing and other ways to force Peacock in-close.
I never said she was OP- she isn't, I said Divekick makes her kinda one-dimensional, there are ways to beat it
DiscoShark
Banned
Squigly has ...
1. Center Stage to bring full screen opponents instantly to her. If it's the Level 2 version she can immediately cancel into Daisy Pusher for an unjumpable full screen command grab setup.
2. Silver Chord which is a projectile move that ignores other projectiles and brings opponents closer to her
3. j.HP to tag a Peacock looking to use air backdashes to get away once pressure has been applied.
4. Her Level 2 QCF+HK which homes in on the opponent's current position
5. Level 3 Super which will hit regardless of whether or not Squigly herself is hit.
Divekick is only really a factor in the Peacock matchup once Squigly has already successfully gotten in.
SolarKnight
Member
Her assist, yeah, but I think it's kinda hard for Squigly herself to stay in and do something.
I don't think it's too bad though, but I definitely think that match up is better as someone else + her assist.
I don't think it's too bad though, but I definitely think that match up is better as someone else + her assist.
I have never had the chance to fully charge to a Level 2 ANYTHING in a Peacock matchup before I get bopped by a projectile. ;_; Believe me, I've tried, especially suggestion 4.
And the Level 3 is really a once-a-match use. Keep in mind I'm starting in the neutral with Squigly on point.
I think Center Stage is a great idea, but theory fighting here, wouldn't it just make me run into her projectiles faster?
Silver Chord might just be the matchup point I need to turn the tables though. I keep forgetting that it moves with me and doesn't take a permanent location.
DiscoShark
Banned
Projectiles that are already out on the stage? No.
Projectiles that she's calling out the moment she's pulled in? Yes.
DiscoShark
Banned
Oh ... also, I don't know if you realize but you don't have to charge to level 2 in a single go, the charge itself isn't lost if you cancel it. As an example I could say start charging dragon stance, get half way to level 2, cancel it to block something, then keep continually charging / cancelling until the thing is fully charged.
hahaha. We mortals don't have to worry with IPS much.
Also, in today's edition of help the slow guy:
Someone explain to me why Run Stop would be in as an assist for Cerebella. I don't get it.
Also, teach me about cancelling Peacock's item drop charge. I had no idea you could cancel it and keep the charge.
SolarKnight
Member
I'm guessing the only reason run->stop is an assist is so that Pummel Horse isn't >.>
Okay, hah. I am sad I missed the brief beta window where that was possible though.
SolarPowered
Member
Now I get it.
You should try the other characters again. Cerebella practically does all the work for you.Heh, any character really. I'm just not a combo oriented kind of guy. I tried to run solo Squigly for a while, because I can half-complete her combos and go for a cool reset, but I can't really beat offense (Filia/Double) or defense(Peacock/Double)-heavy teams. This is a problem.
Even doing something like "only let three air hits land, wait to land, link stand short" is just an absolute nightmare for a player like me. Or switching up ground chains, or switching up air chains, or omitting pieces of air chains.
It also doesn't help that Squigly is the only character in the roster that I like.
Maybe in the future.
You are right. Right now people are playing her like a divekick machine. Fifteen seconds of Squigly in your range has more divekicks in it than five rounds of DIVEKICK and I think it is really fucking stupid right now.
Huw_Dawson
Member
So I'm still churning out the Patch Note videos.
The video for the patches of the 22nd and 23rd are here: http://youtu.be/nyvZ7FMvqeY
And I'm currently in the process of uploading the one for the 24th.
The video for the patches of the 22nd and 23rd are here: http://youtu.be/nyvZ7FMvqeY
And I'm currently in the process of uploading the one for the 24th.
Thomasorus
Member
Yup Squiggly has so many moves that I don't use because divekick is so useful I don't feel the need to do anything else.
We also talked about removing the restand in combo. Like doing a combo in the air that leads to the ground does not put the comboed character on his feet but in knockdown. I would enjoy to at least try the game this way even if it does not stay in the final build.
We also talked about removing the restand in combo. Like doing a combo in the air that leads to the ground does not put the comboed character on his feet but in knockdown. I would enjoy to at least try the game this way even if it does not stay in the final build.
SolarKnight
Member
Honestly, that sounds like a pretty bad idea to me since not only would it cripple combos but it harms resets too.
SolarPowered
Member
Good jobs on the vids. I think I've seen the last three you've done so far.So I'm still churning out the Patch Note videos.
The video for the patches of the 22nd and 23rd are here: http://youtu.be/nyvZ7FMvqeY
And I'm currently in the process of uploading the one for the 24th.
Learn to love the restands. They are one of the best things about this game. It makes Parasoul and Cerebell a piece of cake to play. Cerebella especially can't get any easier. Got a knockdown? cr.LK, whatever the hell you want into diamond dynamo for insane damage.Yup Squiggly has so many moves that I don't use because divekick is so useful I don't feel the need to do anything else.
We also talked about removing the restand in combo. Like doing a combo in the air that leads to the ground does not put the comboed character on his feet but in knockdown. I would enjoy to at least try the game this way even if it does not stay in the final build.
Huw_Dawson
Member
Thomasorus
Member
The encore UI is pretty. :3
But I really don't like the recovery effect at all. It's not it's useless (actually it's very good to know when your opponent recovers) it's just it has no feeling at all. Since the characters stay idle when recovering, the sparks seems to enlight... nothing. Just as if you had the recovery flash from guilty gear but without the recovery animation.
And the flash stays where you recovered and does not follow you, so if you are recovering while falling, the flash stays in the air while you are on the ground. And strangely while I never took any attention on the recovery feeling in SG, it made me realize there is actually no feeling at all, even more with this new spark that seems out of place.
Maybe they could try a recovery like GG where you roll neutral, back or forward to emphasize the spark effect ? It would change a lot the reset game so not sure if it's a good idea, but at least it would feel a bit more natural.
But I really don't like the recovery effect at all. It's not it's useless (actually it's very good to know when your opponent recovers) it's just it has no feeling at all. Since the characters stay idle when recovering, the sparks seems to enlight... nothing. Just as if you had the recovery flash from guilty gear but without the recovery animation.
And the flash stays where you recovered and does not follow you, so if you are recovering while falling, the flash stays in the air while you are on the ground. And strangely while I never took any attention on the recovery feeling in SG, it made me realize there is actually no feeling at all, even more with this new spark that seems out of place.
Maybe they could try a recovery like GG where you roll neutral, back or forward to emphasize the spark effect ? It would change a lot the reset game so not sure if it's a good idea, but at least it would feel a bit more natural.