Slate: Here's Why Tipping Should Be Banned
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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The one thing that has always irked me is sitting at a bar where a bartender hands you a beer bottle and the custom is to give them a 25-33% tip. That just can't be right.
This has changed since I go to places where I can comfortably open a tab. 20% at the end of the night is often times less than a dollar a drink (assuming $3-5 per)
I don't think many people view stiffing as OK, but it's entirely fucked up that a waiter would lose wages in the first place from someone stiffing on the tip, while the restaurant walks away with it's material costs covered.
Which is why waiters should be paid the same wage as everyone else, including other service jobs, which function fine with no tipping because they don't have a bunch of asinine rules created by lobbying.
Mt Heart Attack
Member
I would be so stressed out every time I'd walk into a restaurant or bar if I lived in the States, wouldn't know how much, if, when to tip. Would probably end up avoiding eating out as much as possible xd
From a European perspective (well depends on the place, people tip in Vienna for instance), this tipping custom just seems like a total waste of time. Just charge an automatic gratuity and be done with it.
From a European perspective (well depends on the place, people tip in Vienna for instance), this tipping custom just seems like a total waste of time. Just charge an automatic gratuity and be done with it.
Americans don't like unions. It runs counter to the concept of bootstraps.
No I don't have to start eating at different restaurants. I don't have to tip at all because I don't live in the US.
As an outsider looking in, I see tipping as a big con. Some fat cat's in the service industry managed to pull the wool over every bodies eyes and made paying their employees the customer's responsibility. It's such a scam.
I'm not blaming the workers who rely on their tips, I'm just disgusted with a system that underpays it's workers so badly they need to rely on the good will of the general public.
NekoFever
Member
Union? That's a funny spelling of communism.
Velcro Fly
Member
If there were no tipping, servers would make an actual wage and food prices would go up accordingly. So you'd still be paying pretty much the exact same amount. Only instead of a server being popular and making a ton on tips, they are making $8 an hour with zero incentive to give a shit at all since they make $8 regardless.
Make no mistake, you are spending the money anyway.
jonnyp
Member
I hate tipping, just pay your workers a decent wage already America! Also, I dislike that all prices are excluding tax. I just want one god damn final price displayed.
What I really like about Australia is when you go into a restaurant and read the menu, you might see a steak for $14. That is exactly how much you pay. Tax is already included, no need for tips because the waiter earns a decent wage.
The only time we generally tip is to round off the bill so we don't have to carry change.
We get decent service from the staff, because if we don't, we don't come back. Or alternatively we complain to management and they get reprimanded. Nothing worse for a restaurant than a bad rep.
This might sound like a pipe dream and a 'perfect world' but that's exactly how it works.
The only time we generally tip is to round off the bill so we don't have to carry change.
We get decent service from the staff, because if we don't, we don't come back. Or alternatively we complain to management and they get reprimanded. Nothing worse for a restaurant than a bad rep.
This might sound like a pipe dream and a 'perfect world' but that's exactly how it works.
malingenie
Member
Why you no tip?
Every tipping thread makes me realise how weird the American system is. Tips are meaningless there, compared to other countries that use them appropriately.
I tipped in Pizza Hut yesterday because the woman brought me a refilled drink without asking pretty much exactly as I finished my first drink which was good service. So, she earned it. O also tend to tip delivery drivers if the lift in my building is broken. Walking up that many flights of stairs deserves a wee tip...
I tipped in Pizza Hut yesterday because the woman brought me a refilled drink without asking pretty much exactly as I finished my first drink which was good service. So, she earned it. O also tend to tip delivery drivers if the lift in my building is broken. Walking up that many flights of stairs deserves a wee tip...
Messofanego
Banned
What is GAF's fascinating with tipping? I don't see this topic get as much discussion in other forums.
I wouldn't want it to go away, just been fascinated with GAF's fascination.
I wouldn't want it to go away, just been fascinated with GAF's fascination.
ComputerMKII
Banned
Do you tip? And why?
POWERSPHERE
Member
Put the cost of employing someone directly on the people, not the employer. Mankind is AIDS.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
-In America if people don't tip waiters often don't make minimum wage
-Outside of america, countries where tipping is culturally accepted is on top of minimum wage
-People outside of america see threads like "waiter chases after customer for not leaving tip/leaving crappy tip", and think WHAT THE HELL, oftimes not realising sometimes waiters are chasing just to be able to pay their rent
-Some people have a principle of not leaving a tip in america "to change things"(scummy employers try to keep wages below minimum wage to keep their costs lower and make their menu prices look better), other people think you should leave a tip always because the waiter may be having trouble with wages now
-Fights over the recommended tip floating up from 10 to 15 and then upwards, what kind of service should even justify a tip (any, normal, good only)
-Some people believing you should never tip for delivery vs former delivery drivers experience of not even making their petrol money back if people don't tip thanks to stingy fast food joints
So basically it's a simultaneous culture clash and principle clash.
Aquamarine
Member
What the hell. I live in NYC, and that's just incredibly rude of him.
When I go to restaurants, I make sure to leave the tip on the table, in cash, right as I'm walking out the door.
That way I don't run into any server pushback. Usually, if the service was terrible and I gave the server a low tip, I never come back to the restaurant.
There's absolutely no reason why you should be harassed for giving a 10% tip if the service was horrible. Maybe I could empathize if you literally left him nothing, but 10% for bad service? Come on now.
The gratuity we pay is linked to his performance as a server. That's the risk he takes for having his wages completely dependent on service performance. He doesn't perform? He shouldn't get money.
I hope you complained about the restaurant on Yelp.
robertsan21
Member
Tipping is so fucked up, pay them a salary that they can live on and then if we like the service we tip.
daninthemix
Member
lol, now that you mention it I was so incensed I did give the place a bad review somewhere - Trip Advisor I think.
I'd be fine with the food going up, but I'd prefer the servers were not paid commission - we should still be open to tip based on service.
being paid commission depends mostly on how many tables you are waiting, how many at each table and what they order. You could get lucky or unlucky. You aren't getting commission like a car salesman, you're not selling anything - the customer is already buying.
Messofanego
Banned
Ok now it makes more sense why there is drama. Cause tipping kind of charges are already added to the cost here in most European countries. So tipping is like their primary income venue?
Waiters don't even get minimum wage on top of the tipping in USA, or is my reading comprehension really bad right now?
But that commission, bigger cuts etc, are given by the employer not the people they are serving or did business with.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
No, you're correct.
I'm not sure if it's across the entire country, but I believe at least in some states employers pay below minimum wage but are also legally obligated to "top up" their employee's wages if their tips don't bring them up to minimum wage - but in practice it seems some employers just fire their employees if they request the top up.
Uk here so I don't know the full ins and outs of it, just what I've read from the many, many tipping threads on gaf. As a customer I far prefer the european system.
Thats the thing no one here seems to understand.
Waiters love the situation right now. It makes them by far the highest paid low skill employee right now. Plus a lot of their income is under the table so many don't report it to the IRS.
Zoe
Member
They ALWAYS make at LEAST minimum wage.
Messofanego
Banned
I don't know how much the rest of you know about American tipping (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in the rest of the world where you can become successful by being paid minimum wage and VAT. If you screw a waiter over in America, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is a 45% tip.
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Waiter: "Hey boss, business was really slow this week so my combined wages and tips were under the minimum. I guess you missed it, can you fix my check?"
Boss: "Not my fault your tips were so low."
Waiter: "Well it was slow so I hardly had any customers to get tips from. I mean the law says you have to cover the difference."
Boss: "You're fired."
Sir_Crocodile
Member
.
Not just the shame but the potential of being locked in the resturant
and forced to play ffxiii
Zoe
Member
They are required by law to pay you at least the minimum. If you don't hit the minimum, that should have been evident when you claimed your tips.
If you're not making the minimum, either your performance is bad or the restaurant doesn't make enough business to support you.
That would go against their interests.
The people who want tipping to stay are mostly the wanting staff, because it allows them to make triple or more the minimal wages for a low qualification job
Why would they want it to change?
Also realise that they always tell you that one horror story or that one night where they got stiffled as a justification for it.
Realistically it's a job that should pay an average wage in line with the "complexity" and "stress" it demands. But that would be abhorrent to the wanting personnel who would see their current wages decrease.
I know no one around me who likes tipping and the few who do always point out how big of a tip they leave... because it's mostly a way of boosting their self esteen in the end.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah I don't get this either. At least with tips I have some control in case the service is just awful or if it's amazing. Without them, I'm just eating food that's more expensive than it used to be.
PanicFreak
Member
Judging from your handle, it makes perfect sense.
Seriously, it's not hard, when you go to a resturant and they serve you while you're seated at a table, you tip. If you walk up to a counter, you don't.
You tip at bars to get better service and to thank them for getting you drunk as a skunk.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
This never happens. Mostly because very few waiters actually make under the minimum wage and second, because very, very few employers are actually ignorant of the law to the extent you're suggesting.
FindMyFarms
Member
No the commission wouldn't come out of your pocket, but the companies. There would be no tipping in this hypothetical situation. i.e. instead of paying 10 for an item and an option to tip, instead the item cost 12, and there was no tipping, but the company gave the waiter $1.80 for every burger sold.
Can't believe you actually buy this line of reasoning.
Tipping is nothing more than a scam so the wealthy can get away with paying their workers less. I know this might seem normal to an American, but the rest of the developed world isn't that gullible.
It has happened to my wife plenty of times when she was a server. There are slow days where hardly anyone comes in especially if you're working a day shift on a weekday. The manager knows the law, and would honor it if you demanded it, but you will get the shittiest hours until they run you off or can find a reason to fire you. The reason is because it makes that managers numbers look worse and makes them look bad. The best you can do is eat it and hope you make up for it during your better shifts.
Wouldn't have worked anyways: the law is based on overall weekly earnings. One bad shift doesn't have an effect.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
If restaurants are as greedy as you're claiming, then they're going to want to offset the extra money they'll need to start paying waiters who are no longer making tips in order to meet minimum wage.
They're going to raise the price of food. Where else do you think that would come from? They're going to pass it along to the customer. They aren't going to eat the cost.
One reason: no more hot servers.
Food prices wouldn't raise that much because no one would give waiters 15 to 20% of what the client pays.
Will waiters make less?
Yes
Will they still earn decent wages for the line of work they're pursuing?
Yes
When tipping was more or less banned in France, dish prices hardly rose.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
That's only true if waiters and waitresses make far above minimum wage in tips. Oftentimes they don't, so the difference in tip money saved versus money needing to go to the waiter is roughly equivalent.
I remember when I waited tables in high school I only got paid $2.13 an hour. Without tips, my paycheck would basically be quadrupling. That's a huge cost increase for the restaurant.
I'm guessing pre-tip ban, waiters in France were paid a lot better than they typically are in the US, which would explain that. Less of a wage increase to reach minimum wage, so less of a price increase on food.
Yep the downside is that food becomes more expensive. But why do you think the price of food should be this sacred, untouchable thing?
In every other industry, businesses need to strike a balance between what they charge and what it costs them to provide goods or services. Why should the service industry be any different? Sounds to me like they have an unsustainable business model and they are asking the public to foot the bill.
At the end of the day, I can deal with paying more for food because I don't have to put up with tipping culture. I don't have to put up with shitty wages either should I choose to work in that industry.
poppabk
Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
So you don't care that it is discriminatory, and that blacks get paid less than whites for the same work? You don't care that the amount paid is barely related to the quality of the work?
I don't think anyone is against tipping per se, most are against the tip being used to make up the difference between what the person should be paid and what they are paid.
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
I'm mainly addressing the (very common) anti-tipping complaint which essentially boils down to "I don't want to tip because I shouldn't have to pay extra money to someone for doing their job" or something to that effect. These people think that if tipping is abolished, and they don't have to tip, that will save them money. Some people will even admit that they don't tip because they are cheap.
I was simply pointing out that that particular argument is flawed.
Personally, I'd rather have a choice in the matter of where that extra money is going, and how much, rather than have it included in the price of my food by default with no wiggle room on the total. I'm not sure what "tipping culture" is so I guess it doesn't bother me.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It sounds a lot like speculation that the manager would decide to retaliate against you. Tip income is largely self-reported. I don't see how you can put it on the manager if you choose to not report a sub-minimum wage payday. Moreover, we're talking about minimum wage on average. You don't get bumped up to minimum wage if you work two weekends and make $25 per hour on those days and $6 per hour on the other three weekdays.
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