Slate: Here's Why Tipping Should Be Banned
- Thread starter ComputerMKII
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Yeah tipping is a pretty shitty and flawed system. I mean, if you were at a table of 6 where an 18% gratuity is incorporated into the bill beforehand, that server could be as big an arsehole as he/she likes because he/she will still be getting 18% minimum on whatever is ordered.
The fact that the server makes a tip based on what is ordered is silly too. If these 6 people each bought a $100 Lobster, the server would make a $108 tip MINIMUM.
This is also accurate haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4f7KiiB6dM
The fact that the server makes a tip based on what is ordered is silly too. If these 6 people each bought a $100 Lobster, the server would make a $108 tip MINIMUM.
This is also accurate haha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4f7KiiB6dM
Spring-Loaded
Member
It's only fair.
Aquamarine
Member
0% tip when you stand there and wait (Starbucks / McDonalds)
$1 tip per drink at a bar for an easy drink (like pouring a beer)
$2 tip per drink at a bar for a complex drink
At a sitdown restaurant where food is served to you:
0-5% tip for bad service
10% tip for mediocre service
15% tip for decent to great service
20-25% tip for fantastic service
^ A good baseline to combat entitled waitstaff.
$1 tip per drink at a bar for an easy drink (like pouring a beer)
$2 tip per drink at a bar for a complex drink
At a sitdown restaurant where food is served to you:
0-5% tip for bad service
10% tip for mediocre service
15% tip for decent to great service
20-25% tip for fantastic service
^ A good baseline to combat entitled waitstaff.
rykomatsu
Member
Should just be 0% for normal service. No one I know who works in any other industry gets any bonus for doing just what they're hired to do.
Perfect. My thoughts exactly.
DiscoPower
Member
Fuck tipping.
Aquamarine
Member
I personally like the freedom of being able to give the server whatever tip I damn well please if they give me horrible / mediocre service.
Mandatory gratuity is downright annoying because it mocks you about its arbitrary restrictions. In cases of mandatory gratuity, I'd much rather see increased food prices and no tipping than a "You must pay a 18% tip no matter how shitty the service is" disclaimer.
Super fucking depressing that so many people so vehemently oppose a nice custom that give waitstaff a nice wage.
Really glad I never have to deal with any of you when I roll into a restaurant on a Saturday with a dozen friends, load up on food and drink, chat up the waitstaff, and leave that person with fat 70 dollar tip (split 12 ways it's really not that much). None of us complain. All of us are glad to do it (We frequent the same spots so we sometimes end up at the waiter/waitresses apartment after the place closes.) We laugh, we have a good time, we eat wonderful food, craft beers, and cocktails. The thought of wasting time whingeing about the injustice of the US custom of tipping is sad. We are not showing off (none of us are rich). We enjoy fine food and drink so once or twice a month we splurge on a nice restaurant.
This whole thread feels like it's filled with bitter miserable misanthropes. Whatever your justification of it is, you come across and cheap and petty. They don't do it in other countries? So what? EMTs don't get tips for saving lives? That's a shame. You can't afford it? I'm sorry you can't spare 10 bucks once a month.
Really glad I never have to deal with any of you when I roll into a restaurant on a Saturday with a dozen friends, load up on food and drink, chat up the waitstaff, and leave that person with fat 70 dollar tip (split 12 ways it's really not that much). None of us complain. All of us are glad to do it (We frequent the same spots so we sometimes end up at the waiter/waitresses apartment after the place closes.) We laugh, we have a good time, we eat wonderful food, craft beers, and cocktails. The thought of wasting time whingeing about the injustice of the US custom of tipping is sad. We are not showing off (none of us are rich). We enjoy fine food and drink so once or twice a month we splurge on a nice restaurant.
This whole thread feels like it's filled with bitter miserable misanthropes. Whatever your justification of it is, you come across and cheap and petty. They don't do it in other countries? So what? EMTs don't get tips for saving lives? That's a shame. You can't afford it? I'm sorry you can't spare 10 bucks once a month.
I thought this thread was about findings that on average their is a disparity in tipping when it comes to Race and attractiveness.
I think that is a big enough issue that it should make people at large question why tipping still exists as a custom and whether it is a system that gives all waiters and waitresses an opportunity at equal pay.
I have hypothesized before that most people determine their tips, consciously or sub-consciously, on the attractiveness or friendliness of the waiter/waitress. I can't remember the number of times I have read in tipping threads that someone tipped someone more because they were a cute guy/girl.
Friendliness is also a highly subjective measure of providing quality service. Not every person is compatible and like you. Someone who is of a certain body-type, age, look, race, or comes from specific religious/cultural background shouldn't have their wages determined by their ability to be like your friends. This heavily favors people who are more alike to the population and greatly handicaps the "others" ability to succeed as a waiter/waitress while providing equal effort and objectively equal service.
If you want to dismiss this discussion as something that you don't think about while enjoying yourself that's fine. I'm glad there are people that do think about how these things impact the working class. I would rather waiters/waitresses be paid equally. If for some reason there is wage discrimination taking place, there is someone to be held liable for those actions and actual change can occur.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Management and employees determine mutually-acceptable wages everywhere else instead of dumping that responsibility on customers under the guise of tips.
Not every job is meant to be a career.
If the tipping system is just de facto welfare, I'm quite confident that society can allocate those dollars better elsewhere because a flat tax that distributes benefits without means-testing is just about the dumbest possible scheme for that purpose.
PanicFreak
Member
Actually, I am what you could call a "business professional" and I still see it that way. Money doesn't just change hands, it flows. It moves from your hand, to a company, to an employee, to another company, to another employee, etc. Business isn't only about the companies you deal with but the people in them as well.
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
I've been on dat "fuck tipping" train for YEARS. And I've had people shit on me for it...
It is not a healthy business practice for employees and costumers. Period. It needs to fucking die.
It is not a healthy business practice for employees and costumers. Period. It needs to fucking die.
This is how it's supposed to be. The problem is that tipping way too entrenched into American culture. Workers in the service industry are criminally underpaid and actually need their tips to survive, hence why they feel entitled to their tips regardless of the service provided.
It's a shitty, corrupt system and it needs to go.
xValentine
Member
I agree.
Just add a service charge on every dine-in meal.
Just add a service charge on every dine-in meal.
Yes. All those uppity, entitled waiters and waitresses you always see. My eyes can't possibly roll more.
You need to start eating at different establishments.
Again.... How are there so many curmudgeons in one place?
It baffles me that eventhough waiters feel entitled to the tips they make because they don't get paid much by the restaurant but at the same time they could be making $100+ in 2-3 hours and feel entitled to that so much so that they don't want the tipping culture to go.
Is there no such thing as getting overpaid? Infact I'll be damned if I didn't find a lot of people who wait tables just because of the money they can make in it. I mean this is a job that literally anyone can do and does not requires expertise or qualification to do yet it seems to pay an asston of money for half as many work hours in a day. If you are so worried about earning less if in case mandatory tipping is banned then maybe you should try getting a different job? You know, like everyone else seems to do.
I mean it's understandable to get furious if you didn't earn anything through tipping and didn't get paid by the restaurant as well but to get furious because you'll be earning what a waiter should...is just nuts. What people want is for the mandatory tipping culture to go away, it doesn't means they'll abruptly stop tipping waiters for doing a good job, instead it just means it's out of good will and not forced.
Is there no such thing as getting overpaid? Infact I'll be damned if I didn't find a lot of people who wait tables just because of the money they can make in it. I mean this is a job that literally anyone can do and does not requires expertise or qualification to do yet it seems to pay an asston of money for half as many work hours in a day. If you are so worried about earning less if in case mandatory tipping is banned then maybe you should try getting a different job? You know, like everyone else seems to do.
I mean it's understandable to get furious if you didn't earn anything through tipping and didn't get paid by the restaurant as well but to get furious because you'll be earning what a waiter should...is just nuts. What people want is for the mandatory tipping culture to go away, it doesn't means they'll abruptly stop tipping waiters for doing a good job, instead it just means it's out of good will and not forced.
What nations can achieve when we don't have the mollifying effects of the extreme right wing set run rampant.
Shame! Shame on you all! How dare you even think to have a discussion about this amazing custom!
Nay! THERE SHALL BE NO DISCUSSION! YOU MONSTERS! JUST TIP!
How much do you get in tips per hour?
Would it be better if your new wage was your old wage + avg tip per hour?
If not, why not?
How does that compare to... minimum wage adjusted for productivity growth... which is around $16.50 per hour?
And if we add reduced tips on top of that (say... 25% of the current tips you get), and trip compensation (petrol cost and vehicle wear and tear)... how's that?
We live in a country where nobody gets the pay they truly deserve. Nothing short of government intervention will change that at this point.
The worst it usually gets is about $8 an hour, the best can be up to $20
If I got paid $16-$30 an hour? I'm not sure. Tips are nice because they're money you leave with when your shift is over - that means all of the gas I wasted can be replaced right away. I can't say for waiters and bartenders, but if I'm going to waste my gas and subject my car to extra wear and tear because someone expects food to be delivered to them, they should also expect to give me a tip.
Tips are entirely essential, atleast to a delivery driver.
note my situation is a lot better than most people with the same title - I know most big pizza chains only pay their drivers around $4 an hour, which is under half of the minimum wage in my state
I hear a lot of "I'd quit my job if I didn't make tips!"
GOOD, give the job to someone who does more work that's more degrading who should have every right to it. Saying garbage like that makes a person sound entitled.
It makes me ill that I and MANY others make less as highly trained professionals than someone who learned how to balance plates with a smile on their face, and most of them can't even bother to give you the smile anymore. And some of them can't even do the plate trick, either!
My mother worked in the service industry for 15 years, and all she would ever talk about is how fucking ridiculous this shit is.
Never mind that it sucks the ambition out of a certain section of the population when there's basically easy money on the table. With what some people are getting paid to do this stuff, makes me wish I had no ambition, as well.
GOOD, give the job to someone who does more work that's more degrading who should have every right to it. Saying garbage like that makes a person sound entitled.
It makes me ill that I and MANY others make less as highly trained professionals than someone who learned how to balance plates with a smile on their face, and most of them can't even bother to give you the smile anymore. And some of them can't even do the plate trick, either!
My mother worked in the service industry for 15 years, and all she would ever talk about is how fucking ridiculous this shit is.
Never mind that it sucks the ambition out of a certain section of the population when there's basically easy money on the table. With what some people are getting paid to do this stuff, makes me wish I had no ambition, as well.
You're wrong. The rich get the pay that everyone deserves. The government has done their best to make sure of that.
So it's been established that GAF is comprised of Europeans who just don't get it, which is fine, and a bunch of sociopathic misers.
I joke about it from time to time, but seeing as the US lacks compulsory military service we should be forced to work in the service industry for a period of time. Just so people get some understanding of how it all works.
I joke about it from time to time, but seeing as the US lacks compulsory military service we should be forced to work in the service industry for a period of time. Just so people get some understanding of how it all works.
You expect people to give you tips for doing your job? They're already paying your employer for the delivery, it is his job to pay you. I can understand people wanting a tip for giving a better service, but if you're just doing your job, you're not entitled to anything except your paycheck.
You do understand he is footing the bill for gas and using his personal vehicle, correct?
Sorry, tipping a driver for burning gas and wearing down their car so you can get your food is pretty much expected. If you don't want to tip, come into the store.
More often than not, people already know what they're going to be tipping before the driver even gets to their door.
Replacing the gas right away would only matter for the first month. After that you'd be into the loop and it wouldn't matter as long as you're somewhat economically sane and don't waste all the salary in the first couple of days.
Delivery drivers do exists even where people do not tip. How do they manage?
I'm not sure, have you asked one of them? Check and see their wage and the incentives that their employer gives for being a driver. Check and see if they are managing, because I'm curious as well.
I do understand that is a problem for him and his employer. If I order something, I don't get an option to chose between someone coming in a company vehicle or his personal vehicle. It is the employer that should reimburse the costs for delivery. The customer pays the employer for the item and its delivery, so why does the customer need to pay both employer via the price and the delivery guy via tips for the delivery?
Paying your employee for the costs he has to make to do his job is expected where I live. If you need to use gas to work, the employer pays the gas.
Also, some people in this thread make it sound like tipping or not is black and white. People here in Europe still get tipped you know. Not because it is mandatory, but for good to exceptional service.
A couple of months ago when me and my girlfriend were on a weekend in Lisbon we left 70 on a 55 bill because both the service and food were really good. That on top of them already having a decent salary to start with. Tipping should be a reward and not something you expect to get anyway.
A couple of months ago when me and my girlfriend were on a weekend in Lisbon we left 70 on a 55 bill because both the service and food were really good. That on top of them already having a decent salary to start with. Tipping should be a reward and not something you expect to get anyway.
So basically "fuck you I got mine"?
daninthemix
Member
Tipping is annoying. When I was in NYC last year, I tipped low to a restaurant because of the shockingly poor service, and the Indian server just stood there and calculated the percentage, then told me "no, this is like 10 percent. That's not enough".
On the other hand, more than happy to give 30-40% to friendly servers in places like Dennys.
So it can go both ways, when paying to eat out really should only be a positive experience rather than one that can be soured by the tipping process.
On the other hand, more than happy to give 30-40% to friendly servers in places like Dennys.
So it can go both ways, when paying to eat out really should only be a positive experience rather than one that can be soured by the tipping process.
I don't know that many but since they still are around they must manage somehow?
Luckily a lot of information is publicly available on the internet. Now, I do not say they aren't making that much money (rather the opposite), but the average salary is 21121 sek / month ($3177 in today's exchange rate). At least that is a lot more than, say you get, $8 per hour, works 8 hours a day and 20 days a month (= $1280). And if you are a delivery driver working for a delivery firm, why do you pay the gas yourself?
Velcro Fly
Member
Simple rules to live by while dining in the United States
- If eating at a sit down place, tip your server.
- If ordering out and having it delivered, tip your delivery person
I don't care about your personal feelings. It's custom in America for how things are done. Don't like it? Don't use those services. I can tell every single person who whines about having to tip has never had to work a job that pays a crappy wage where you rely on tips. People who go out to eat and know better but still don't tip are about the lowest of the low you can get. I'd love for those people to work for $2.13 an hour and have their living depend on making extra cash from the people they see every day. Guarantee the attitude would change.
- If eating at a sit down place, tip your server.
- If ordering out and having it delivered, tip your delivery person
I don't care about your personal feelings. It's custom in America for how things are done. Don't like it? Don't use those services. I can tell every single person who whines about having to tip has never had to work a job that pays a crappy wage where you rely on tips. People who go out to eat and know better but still don't tip are about the lowest of the low you can get. I'd love for those people to work for $2.13 an hour and have their living depend on making extra cash from the people they see every day. Guarantee the attitude would change.
I just can't believe how many people are either jealous or miserable cheapskates. On top of all these people who think it's easy to be on your feet, serving people all day. (I've never done it, but when I was younger I washed dishes). I consider myself lucky to make a decent living not having to wait tables. I busted my ass when I was a teenager though.
I love that we have a tipping culture in the US. We have a handful of professions that people at the low-end get to make good money for hard work. I get to pay these people directly instead of it going into some "system" that I have no control over, and that will probably end up unevenly distributed to people much higher up the chain.
The whole "hey man it's not my fault they don't get paid enough" attitude is so fucking obnoxious. You get the opportunity to make up for them not getting paid enough by...doing simple math on your bill!
I live in metropolitan area, so perhaps it's a little different here...but I've never in my life met a person who has a problem with this...ever.
I've never in my life have had a server look at the bill before I left. Even in the shittiest of restaurants.
How did this even take place? They leave the bill with you before you go. You pay, either by cash or credit card but they don't see the amount until they clear the table.
I'm out the door before the server sees what I left for a tip.
Velcro Fly
Member
Also it's a great feeling when you have a great server that is really nice and always there right when you need them and you leave them a $20 tip on your $20 bill. I love rewarding people with my money for good service. Not only do you feel good, but you make them feel good because they know you recognize and appreciate their hard work.
daninthemix
Member
Tell me about it - it's the only time I've been in New York and that happens. Perhaps, because it was in the wake of the hurricane and not many places were open, they expected to cash in big despite leaving us waiting for ages.
FindMyFarms
Member
Huh? Pretty much anyone that works in sales or earns a commission. Agents, brokers, etc. all get bigger cuts on higher sales. Their income is directly tied to their performance, however, it's mandatory as opposed to voluntary.
Also these people quoting making $20 an hour and higher for servers like it's the norm are on something. Not a lot of servers make that much, fact.
A couple of days ago my girlfriend and I ordered Chinese food and had it delivered.
After the dude swiped our card with his card reader and had me write the total on the receipt + signature, he pointed to the "Tip" line (which I left blank) and said "Oh man, why you no tip?"
Really? You drove that shit 2 miles to my house in your 30 MPG Corolla. :\ Talk about entitlement...
After the dude swiped our card with his card reader and had me write the total on the receipt + signature, he pointed to the "Tip" line (which I left blank) and said "Oh man, why you no tip?"
Really? You drove that shit 2 miles to my house in your 30 MPG Corolla. :\ Talk about entitlement...
FindMyFarms
Member
Yeah, talk about tryin to make money while at work, what a jerk.
GAF, out of curiosity, how would yall feel if tipping was eliminated? Instead, food prices went up 20% and servers made a 15% commission on sales as their income? Hypothetical obviously, but just wondering what you guys think about it with regards to the principle of it all.
GAF, out of curiosity, how would yall feel if tipping was eliminated? Instead, food prices went up 20% and servers made a 15% commission on sales as their income? Hypothetical obviously, but just wondering what you guys think about it with regards to the principle of it all.
I have nothing against waiters and waitresses and know they work hard but I do not like this process at all. It is annoying and an inconvenience. It is a barrier for me sometimes to go into certain restaurants, knowing I will have to play extra. The restaurants can raise their prices and get rid of tipping, I'd love that. The thing that makes me mad about it is that it isn't a bonus for great service, it's an expectation. Instead of just paying the amount on the menu you are expected to pay extra and calculate what the proper tip would be, otherwise it is "impolite".
It's a weird situation and a lot of times it leads to waiters/waitresses that try their hardest to fake being friendly cause they have to impress you for a tip. It sucks for them and it sucks for us. Restaurants need to pay their people, it shouldn't be my job to do that. I worked a really shitty job at a Six Flags Parking Lot for 8 months, I was outside in 100+ degree heat or when it was freezing cold out, in Winter till 2am for minimum wage. That job was awful and there are lots of other jobs that are awful. A lot of entry level jobs suck and it's just how it is. I don't need to be guilt tripped by others when I say I don't like the tipping system, like that means I hate waiters/waitresses/delivery-people and don't value their services.
Personally I would go in restaurants a lot more if the prices were higher and there were no tips. I don't need an awkward situation where my server has to try and bug me to make sure everything is fine so she can get paid, it's not genuine it's entirely based on them wanting your money. On the other hand, knowing how America is, I wonder how many people would get really upset that prices were more expensive on the menu.
Look at JC Penny who got rid of coupons they sent in the mail and decided to have lower prices all year instead. I thought it was genius and made things easier for the consumer but people got pissed off and stopped shopping there, now they fired their CEO and are back to the coupon thing. Sometimes people like things complicated.
It's a weird situation and a lot of times it leads to waiters/waitresses that try their hardest to fake being friendly cause they have to impress you for a tip. It sucks for them and it sucks for us. Restaurants need to pay their people, it shouldn't be my job to do that. I worked a really shitty job at a Six Flags Parking Lot for 8 months, I was outside in 100+ degree heat or when it was freezing cold out, in Winter till 2am for minimum wage. That job was awful and there are lots of other jobs that are awful. A lot of entry level jobs suck and it's just how it is. I don't need to be guilt tripped by others when I say I don't like the tipping system, like that means I hate waiters/waitresses/delivery-people and don't value their services.
Personally I would go in restaurants a lot more if the prices were higher and there were no tips. I don't need an awkward situation where my server has to try and bug me to make sure everything is fine so she can get paid, it's not genuine it's entirely based on them wanting your money. On the other hand, knowing how America is, I wonder how many people would get really upset that prices were more expensive on the menu.
Look at JC Penny who got rid of coupons they sent in the mail and decided to have lower prices all year instead. I thought it was genius and made things easier for the consumer but people got pissed off and stopped shopping there, now they fired their CEO and are back to the coupon thing. Sometimes people like things complicated.
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