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Slim PS3 ...good fake or...

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A

Aru

Member
Woz said:
Those frenchies can't live without changing the name of things =P
Click to expand...

Well, excuse us for creating words that sound more french !

But there are a few strange things in our language.
Why do we call a car park "parking" ?
Parking sounds like english. And yet, it's not the word that English people use :lol

Well, that and S-RPG became Tactical-RPG here (T-RPG). I don't know why either...
 
p_xavier

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
AndyD said:
You are right. Then again there are Sony memory stick adapters. And Sony flash drives. My point was that not everything needs to be Playstation branded to sell.

That is the point of universality of open formats. And if they brand stuff Playstation and overprice it and product place it next to the PS3 on the game isle, people will bitch they are getting misled into purchasing that stuff when non branded stuff works the same.
Click to expand...

You overestimate knowledge of people. In any case, I just want matching accessories.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
JeFfRey said:
byte depended on the processor.
Click to expand...

Found this:

Samuel Thomas wrote:
A byte is *not* a data type.
It is a size -- 8 bits in modern computer architectures.
Some obsolete computer architectures had 9 bit bytes
and old CDC computers had 6 bit bytes.
A nibble is 4 bits (half of an 8 bit byte).
A word is the width of the data path
through the Arithmetic and Logic Unit (ALU),
the width of general purpose registers and/or
the width of the data path to memory.
The old CDC computers had 60 bit words (10 6-bit bytes).
The first microprocessors had 8 bit words.
The Intel 8086 had 16 bit words.
(The Intel 8088 had 16 bit words with an 8 bit data path to memory.)
The Intel Pentium has 32 bit words.
The Intel Itanium has 64 bit words.
All of these Intel microprocessors had
"byte addressable" memories.
The old CDC computers addressed only 60 bit words
and 6 bit bytes has to be packed and unpacked explicitly
or you were obliged to use 60 bit words to represent characters.

Because the Intel Pentium was obliged to subsume
the 8086 instruction set for reasons of backward compatibility,
Intel uses the term "long word" to describe 32 bit quantities
so that they will not be confused with the 8086 16 bit words.
Click to expand...

You are quite anal about this :p, yes historically you are accurate, but which one of the current available architectures ARM, x86 (x64 really as the "current" path forward), SPARC, IA-64, MIPS, PowerPC, etc... happens to have bytes that are not 8 bits sized?

I do not recall any of them.

It is a bit pointless to discuss the validity of the assumption 8 bits == 1 byte.
 
p_xavier

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
Panajev2001a said:
Found this:



You are quite anal about this :p... what of the current available architectures ARM, x86 (x64 really as the "current" path forward), SPARC, IA-64, MIPS, PowerPC, etc... have bytes that are not 8 bits sized?

*checking*
Click to expand...

I was teaching electrical engineering for many years so :p In practice, yes, a byte is an octet if that's you wanted to hear. But in theory, no.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
JeFfRey said:
I was teaching electrical engineering for many years so :p In practice, yes, a byte is an octet if that's you wanted to hear. But in theory, no.
Click to expand...

Ok, I understand and will look forward to your posts more now that I know your background (do not worry, I like to be smacked around mind-wise if I get to learn something in the process :)).

Still, nice reminder of the difference between theory and practice... just weird finding Engineers caring about this :p. Although I have always distrusted EE as being "real" Engineers :p (you care too much about formalisms ;)).

J/K :).
 
p_xavier

p_xavier

Authorized Fister
Panajev2001a said:
Ok, I understand and will look forward to your posts more now that I know your background (do not worry, I like to be smacked around mind-wise if I get to learn something in the process :)).

Still, nice reminder of the difference between theory and practice... just weird finding Engineers caring about this :p. Although I have always distrusted EE as being "real" Engineers :p (you care too much about formalisms ;)).

J/K :).
Click to expand...

Well I have never done any real work in the field, I've been working as a security guard for the last 7 years. :lol
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
JeFfRey said:
Well I have never done any real work in the field, I've been working as a security guard for the last 7 years. :lol
Click to expand...

Well, that does sound odd... either you like beating people up a bit too much or you are guarding some important people/areas/objects/thingies ;).
 
K

kittel

Member
Panajev2001a said:
Still, nice reminder of the difference between theory and practice... just weird finding Engineers caring about this :p. Although I have always distrusted EE as being "real" Engineers :p (you care too much about formalisms ;)).
J/K :).
Click to expand...

I'm curious about this. What makes a "real" engineer? So are all EEs anal retentive and likely to espouse the preaching of jargon? :lol

IMHO obsessive compulsive people tend to assume that others are swimming on the same level. The rest of the sea doesn't give a damn.
 
D

dreamcastmaster

Banned
infinityBCRT said:
I think people are looking at the pic of the top half of the casing and think its fake based on the fact it looks ridiculous. However, the pic on the box looks pretty sharp.

Anyone else notice it says 120GB/GO? So are they going to market this as the PS3 GO?


As for PS2 BC through emulation... usually the rule of thumb is you need 10x more processing power to do accurate emulation. And looking at the hardware the PS3 CPU/SPEs are about 10x more powerful, but it would still be difficult to do unless you have great emulation authors.

On the other hand, Microsoft did hire one of the best emulation authors out there (MAME, Connectix VGS) in Aaron Giles and they were able to get a 733 MHz CPU emulated pretty well on a 3.2 GHz CPU which is insane. People don't realize what a technical feat the 360 backwards compatibility is.
Click to expand...

It really is stunning, Its a shame the back compat team didn't get the credit they should have just becuse the libary was not 100% compatible. I'm really glad of the work they did, sorry to see the program was stopped in the end.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
kittel said:
I'm curious about this. What makes a "real" engineer? So are all EEs anal retentive and likely to espouse the preaching of jargon? :lol .
Click to expand...

I was only kidding :p.

It is mostly about the old and abused joke regarding the more general topic of Mathematicians vs Engineers. The formers requiring in depth and faultless formal proofs before proceeding while engineers being happy with field experience supporting the theory ;).

Electrical Engineers, sometimes, are seen as more Mathematician-like... (or so the ECE/CS guys like to think :p).

It reminds me of one sure way to piss a Math professor off to no end... if he asks you to find the integral of some complex function you just do a Taylor/Maclaurin series approximation of it and solve the simpler separate integrals and add them up... do not blame me if he pulls you out of class and pummels your face with some large books though :p.

Well, the following being the other sure way ;)...

matrix_transform.png


In fact, draw all your rotational matrices sideways. Your professors will love it! And then they'll go home and shrink.
 
S

Squeak

Member
infinityBCRT said:
As for PS2 BC through emulation... usually the rule of thumb is you need 10x more processing power to do accurate emulation. And looking at the hardware the PS3 CPU/SPEs are about 10x more powerful, but it would still be difficult to do unless you have great emulation authors.
Click to expand...
First of all it depends on what you mean by "accurate". High level emus like the old N64 emu UltraHLE don't need to be accurate at all to run most games just fine, it just needs to heed the softwarecalls correctly.
Cell and EE are relatively close to each other. They are both vector multiprocessor architectures (the VUs and the SPU are both made by Toshiba BTW, although I don't know how much they have in common), so an emu programmer should be able to split up the tasks among some of the SPUs, leaving the rest for helping with emulation of the GS.
 
T

TheExodu5

Banned
Panajev2001a said:
I was only kidding :p.

It is mostly about the old and abused joke regarding the more general topic of Mathematicians vs Engineers. The formers requiring in depth and faultless formal proofs before proceeding while engineers being happy with field experience supporting the theory ;).

Electrical Engineers, sometimes, are seen as more Mathematician-like... (or so the ECE/CS guys like to think :p).
Click to expand...

I'm a computer engineer (CEG), and I have to agree that ELG's are more concerned with math. I hate taking ELG courses, since they all deal with real value, imaginary numbers, waveforms, integration, and a lot of stuff I consider abstract (like the waveform domain of a signal). My most hated course throughout all of University has been Electromagnetism. I know it's physics, but it's a course that ELG's (and CEG since we're part ELG) have to take, and it sucks so much. I like being a CEG, since we try to work with fuzzy logic, which I tend to understand a lot better. :lol
 
D

dreamcastmaster

Banned
_dementia said:
What's the purpose of changing the font?

I understand they did the same for PSOne, but I don't like this.
Click to expand...

It's marketting and branding, they decide that a certan font will appeal to the audience they want to attract.
 
P

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Squeak said:
First of all it depends on what you mean by "accurate". High level emus like the old N64 emu UltraHLE don't need to be accurate at all to run most games just fine, it just needs to heed the softwarecalls correctly.
Cell and EE are relatively close to each other. They are both vector multiprocessor architectures (the VUs and the SPU are both made by Toshiba BTW, although I don't know how much they have in common), so an emu programmer should be able to split up the tasks among some of the SPUs, leaving the rest for helping with emulation of the GS.
Click to expand...

The SPE thing... well... it is unclear what was the vision of SPE's in Toshiba's mind... the only thing the record mentions is a meeting in which IBM managed to convince that the ISA needed for the SPU was much more restricted than the one Toshiba and SCE engineers (both with some good vector processing knowledge of their own, having designed the EE's VU's and the Allegrex's VFPU [the latter is a purely SCE developed design AFAIK]).

Toshiba's idea was to have a completely SPE populated CPU, no plans for the PPE at all, so each SPE would have been quite a bit more complex than the current one (needs to deal with interrupts, more general purpose code, etc...).
 
I

infinityBCRT

Member
Squeak said:
First of all it depends on what you mean by "accurate". High level emus like the old N64 emu UltraHLE don't need to be accurate at all to run most games just fine, it just needs to heed the softwarecalls correctly.
Click to expand...
HLE just isn't possible with newer generation systems. Most games on the PS2 were built on middleware and you need accuracy for all of those pieces of software to work properly.

Squeak said:
Cell and EE are relatively close to each other. They are both vector multiprocessor architectures (the VUs and the SPU are both made by Toshiba BTW, although I don't know how much they have in common), so an emu programmer should be able to split up the tasks among some of the SPUs, leaving the rest for helping with emulation of the GS.
Click to expand...
You can't really split up the emulation of a single CPU across multiple CPU/SPUs. The biggest roadblock likely is getting the 300 MHz EE CPU emulated on a 3.2 GHz core.
 
R

Rolf NB

Member
infinityBCRT said:
HLE just isn't possible with newer generation systems. Most games on the PS2 were built on middleware and you need accuracy for all of those pieces of software to work properly.


You can't really split up the emulation of a single CPU across multiple CPU/SPUs. The biggest roadblock likely is getting the 300 MHz EE CPU emulated on a 3.2 GHz core.
Click to expand...
The EE isn't really one monolithic CPU, but itself separated into a "main" MIPS core and two VUs daisy-chained into the data path to the GS. Cell is actually a pretty natural progression from that. You can view the SPEs as faster, more generalized VUs with more local memory and the ability to read and write from anywhere in the system, not just push in one direction towards the GS.

The difficulty of emulation is all about the GS IMO.

You should need no further proof than the European launch PS3s aka the earlier American 80GB models aka the PS3s in the MGS4 bundle. They emulate the EE completely in software and that's generally fine, but the actual GS chip is still included on the board.
 
B

Burai

shitonmychest57
_dementia said:
What's the purpose of changing the font?

I understand they did the same for PSOne, but I don't like this.
Click to expand...

To put it in a kind way, If you've used the Internet at all since 2005, you may have spotted that a few people have a slight issue with the font.

To put it in a more realistic way, everybody fucking hates it.
 
I

infinityBCRT

Member
bcn-ron said:
The EE isn't really one monolithic CPU, but itself separated into a "main" MIPS core and two VUs daisy-chained into the data path to the GS. Cell is actually a pretty natural progression from that. You can view the SPEs as faster, more generalized VUs with more local memory and the ability to read and write from anywhere in the system, not just push in one direction towards the GS.

The difficulty of emulation is all about the GS IMO.

You should need no further proof than the European launch PS3s aka the earlier American 80GB models aka the PS3s in the MGS4 bundle. They emulate the EE completely in software and that's generally fine, but the actual GS chip is still included on the board.
Click to expand...
They must do some interesting things with the GS chip then if it would require more than a 3.2 GHz core to emulate. Usually you see that GPU emulation is the least taxing part of emulation.

I know all CPUs aren't made equal but maybe the 3.2 GHz number is throwing me off. My 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo can run MGS3 at full speed (some slowdowns in gameplay but cutscenes are perfect) in PCSX2. You'd think if they can spread that across 4+ 3.2 GHz cores, with Sony's intimate knowledge of the hardware, they should be able to get emulation running at least as good as PCSX2 if not better.

But even with the GS they struggle. My PS3 has the GS chip (but not EE) and it slows down to a crawl when enemies are on the screen in MGS3.
 
K

KernelPanic

Member
I think that God of War 3 CE survey confirms that PS2 BC is dead.

They're gonna selectively port certain PS2 titles onto PSN at most.

The slim is all about reducing Sony's costs on the system which has been their main goal since they launched it, as well as allow for a price cut which they desperately need.
 
D

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Aru said:
Well, excuse us for creating words that sound more french !

But there are a few strange things in our language.
Why do we call a car park "parking" ?
Parking sounds like english. And yet, it's not the word that English people use :lol

Well, that and S-RPG became Tactical-RPG here (T-RPG). I don't know why either...
Click to expand...

But Americans call them "parking lots" so there may be some connection there.
 
N

NinjaFridge

Unconfirmed Member
Burai said:
To put it in a kind way, If you've used the Internet at all since 2005, you may have spotted that a few people have a slight issue with the font.

To put it in a more realistic way, everybody fucking hates it.
Click to expand...

I like it.
 
S

Squeak

Member
infinityBCRT said:
HLE just isn't possible with newer generation systems. Most games on the PS2 were built on middleware and you need accuracy for all of those pieces of software to work properly.
Click to expand...
They did emulate the EE on Cell so that's already done and proven to be possible. The question is what you can do about GS emulation. The GS has some features (mainly related to the huge internal bandwidth and 4 Mb scratchpad VRAM) that is pretty hard to do a straight emulation of on a conventional GPU. One possibility would be to do some, or all of the alphablending on SPUs.

You can't really split up the emulation of a single CPU across multiple CPU/SPUs. The biggest roadblock likely is getting the 300 MHz EE CPU emulated on a 3.2 GHz core.
Click to expand...
Not at all, look at other emulation projects. While not trivial, it's quite doable.
 
L

Liabe Brave

Member
Aru said:
Well, that and S-RPG became Tactical-RPG here (T-RPG). I don't know why either...
Click to expand...
Actually, "tactical RPG" is more accurate, since the games referenced are about individual unit behavior during small-force combat. "Strategy" is more properly reserved for things like RTS, about the general flow of battle units across a salient, front, or theater.
 
N

Nick Laslett

Member
KernelPanic said:
They're gonna selectively port certain PS2 titles onto PSN at most.
Click to expand...

This would be great news, and certainly not something I'd have a problem with. After awhile retail games become harder and harder to find, I don't mind downloading them again.

What would be really neat is if the PSP 4000 is able to play these PS2 downloads just like it does with PS1 titles.

If you are going to develop a software emulator for PS2 titles you might as well figure out how to get it to work the PSP too. I assume the PSP 4000 will need a bit more RAM to make this possible. There are probably a myriad of other difficulties too.

I just wish Sony would make the most of the PS1/PS2 back catalogue. There should be 1000's of titles for us to download.
 
lowrider007

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
conman said:
Thread took a weird detour. So I missed if this (highly questionable) pic got posted yet:

site_playstation-3-ss-41.jpg
Click to expand...


Blatant fake/Chinese knock off, you can even see the joystick ports on the front.
 
C

conman

Member
Sweet. I thought it looked a bit like an Easy Bake Oven painted gray with some vent holes cut in it. Funny to see these fakes continue to circulate. :D
 
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