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[Green Mamba]

For FE, Castle Siege is a fairly graphically intensive stage. And if that wasn't able to work on the 3DS, FE wouldn't have a stage on the 3DS.

Also FE is one of the largest series in Smash as far as reps go. FE even has a ton of music for a series with only three stages in its entire history.

KI I assume was because the 3DS assets ported easily.

Them getting new stages in the 3DS version isn't unusual at all, considering the 3DS version's stage roster is (ostensibly, anyway) supposed to be focused on handheld games. No, it's the fact that they both also have a different new stage in the Wii U version that is unnecessary. They feel comparatively half-baked as well (Coliseum especially is basically a prettier but considerably more boring take on the same concept as Arena Ferox), and feel kind of like they were made because the Wii U version has a new stage for every franchise (save F-Zero and Earthbound for no reason at all). Probably would have been preferable for them to reuse the 3DS stages in the Wii U version, honestly, because their respective Wii U stages are garbage.

I still really don't think splitting the stage roster was a good decision for the quality of the stage rosters at all. Like you said, it strained the resources of stage building, and it's definitely felt in both final products.

EDIT: Has anyone else noticed that Coliseum and Wii Fit Studio are basically the same stage?

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

I really can't stop being bummed that both versions don't have Magicant. Even if the Flying Man is obnoxious, it would be nice to at least have the omega version.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Them getting new stages in the 3DS version isn't unusual at all, considering the 3DS version's stage roster is (ostensibly, anyway) supposed to be focused on handheld games. No, it's the fact that they both also have a different new stage in the Wii U version that is unnecessary. They feel comparatively half-baked as well (Coliseum especially is basically a prettier but considerably more boring take on the same concept as Arena Ferox), and feel kind of like they were made because the Wii U version has a new stage for every franchise (save F-Zero and Earthbound for no reason at all). Probably would have been preferable for them to reuse the 3DS stages in the Wii U version, honestly, because their respective Wii U stages are garbage.

I still really don't think splitting the stage roster was a good decision for the quality of the stage rosters at all.

Pokemon and Zelda got hit with kind of an awkward stage distribution too, on the Wii U. Three Zelda stages, 2 of which are old and only two Pokemon stages, one of which is old? It feels incredibly small for series as large and important as Zelda and Pokemon. DLC kind of helped Zelda a bit, but it's still just another retro stage. Pokemon still doesn't have anything, and it doesn't seem likely we get a Pokemon stage as DLC.

Why did Zelda get two stages on the 3DS and not the Wii U? Zelda has a decent handheld presence, but ultimately it's the console games people consider the "real" Zelda. And I maybe understand Pokemon on the handheld, but it's Pokemon. It's the second largest series in Smash and the largest if we count sales of merchandise.

And yet Mario gets 86 new stages and 35 remixes on a NSMBU stage nobody plays on.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Do you have a link?

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/#intro

BTW, anyone know if there's translations for the JP Palutena's Guidances? The final Pit line for the Wario one had me bust a gut.

I'm not sure music would be that big of a deal. There's a lot of it to go around, some stages are just jam packed with music.

Yarn Yoshi, for example, would lose the RPG music and the Yoshi's Island Brawl music, but could snipe Yoshi's Story 64 off Yoshi's Island Melee where it makes no sense and still have a Brawl sized music roster. It could probably grab one song from YI:B as well if it needed to, since YI has a decent music selection in Brawl anyway.

A lot of stages have way more music than one stage necessarily needs. Miiverse is just hilarious with the pile of leftovers it got because they wouldn't fit on another stage.

The Mario stages I think would be the most interesting. 3D Land would get the Main/Beach Theme back alongside maybe the SMB3 medley, Golden Plains would get the NSMB Theme back and the NSMB2 rip, and maybe Super Bell Hill/Peach's Castle Melee would be switched around for thematic purposes (3D Land/Peach's Castle). Following this, Mushroom Kingdom U would feel rather stripped.

Or, who knows, maybe they'd just let tracks play on more than one stage. It'd also be

Spoiler

heartbreaking)

interesting to see if the Sonic stages would continued to be bloated up with more vocal songs, LOL

 

[Pociask]

So I haven't followed this thread in forever, and, um... Are they ever going to release results of the poll? Did I miss it?

 

[MrSaturn99]

So I haven't followed this thread in forever, and, um... Are they ever going to release results of the poll? Did I miss it?

Nope, it finishes in October.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/#intro

BTW, anyone know if there's translations for the JP Palutena's Guidances? The final Pit line for the Wario one had me bust a gut.



The Mario stages I think would be the most interesting. 3D Land would get the Main/Beach Theme back alongside maybe the SMB3 medley, Golden Plains would get the NSMB Theme back, and maybe Super Bell Hill/Peach's Castle Melee would be switched around for thematic purposes (3D Land/Peach's Castle).

Or, who knows, maybe they'd just let tracks play on more stages. It'd also be

Spoiler

heartbreaking)

interesting to see if the Sonic stages would continued to be bloated up with more vocal songs, LOL

3D Land would get its own theme back, the SMB3 medley back, and probably the 3D World final boss theme and Bell Hill. That would put it at 4, maybe it could snipe Champion's Road as well, since Mario Galaxy is at no shortage of music. At 5 it has a perfectly normal song list. For Delfino, I'd also swap the water theme from Mushroom Kingdom U onto Delfino and trade Delfino's NSMB remix so all the NSMB music was on a related level. Rainbow Cruise would be swapped with the SMB3 overworld rip on Peach's Castle, as it's a 64 remix. Peach's Castle Melee could stay on Delfino. Other than its name, it has no relation to the 64 level.

It'd actually be Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 that would be a little stretched for music. All of its music was cut except the remix that appears on Mushroom Kingdom U. It'd also grab 1-2 from the 3DS version, but other than that, either Gritzy Desert and the Main Theme V2 from Brawl return or it's pulling random Mario music from other stages that have extras. Peach's Castle Melee might work, but that's getting dangerously close to Delfino not having enough remixes.

It certainly would be an interesting puzzle to solve without adding any addition music and sticking to a minimum of 5 songs. But I'm sure they'd probably make more music or rip more music if they needed to.

 

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

BTW, anyone know if there's translations for the JP Palutena's Guidances? The final Pit line for the Wario one had me bust a gut.

Here.

So I haven't followed this thread in forever, and, um... Are they ever going to release results of the poll? Did I miss it?

It's still ongoing. The Brawl ballot never had its results released (only the Melee poll did) so there's no guarantee this one will either.

 

[Golnei]

Most of the 3DS stages wouldn't really port that great to an HD console. Stuff like Spirit Tracks would look awful on the NX. That stage doesn't even look that great on the 3DS.

When it's up against N64 stages (and Pac-Land), I don't think it'll be that jarring. Spirit Tracks is probably the worst 3DS stage, visually, and even that isn't more offensive than Peach's Castle 64 or Big Blue. As for the others, they'd probably be fine just with a bump in texture quality and revised lighting; similar to the changes made to the Wii U Temple.

I wonder how they'd divide up the music if such a version was ever made. For some stages, you'd have to supply some new rips/arrangements.

There are enough gaping holes in the Wii U game's music choices to populate the 3DS/returning Brawl and Melee stages' music lists purely with direct rips while not changing the selection of music for any current stages. And that's not accounting for the games which have come out since the original release (Rainbow Curse's fairly prolific amount of remixes from earlier Kirby games would be particularly fitting) and any new arrangements.

 

[boiled goose]

Enough MII fighter costumes... how about dlc costumes for other characters?

 

[MrSaturn99]

Enough MII fighter costumes... how about dlc costumes for other characters?

Now there's an idea.

Here.

Thank yoooouuuu.

3D Land would get its own theme back, the SMB3 medley back, and probably the 3D World final boss theme and Bell Hill. That would put it at 4, maybe it could snipe Champion's Road as well, since Mario Galaxy is at no shortage of music. At 5 it has a perfectly normal song list. For Delfino, I'd also swap the water theme from Mushroom Kingdom U onto Delfino and trade Delfino's NSMB remix so all the NSMB music was on a related level. Rainbow Cruise would be swapped with the SMB3 overworld rip on Peach's Castle, as it's a 64 remix. Peach's Castle Melee could stay on Delfino. Other than its name, it has no relation to the 64 level.

It'd actually be Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 that would be a little stretched for music. All of its music was cut except the remix that appears on Mushroom Kingdom U. It'd also grab 1-2 from the 3DS version, but other than that, either Gritzy Desert and the Main Theme V2 from Brawl return or it's pulling random Mario music from other stages that have extras. Peach's Castle Melee might work, but that's getting dangerously close to Delfino not having enough remixes.

It certainly would be an interesting puzzle to solve without adding any addition music and sticking to a minimum of 5 songs. But I'm sure they'd probably make more music or rip more music if they needed to.

Those Delfino Plaza switches would be such a shame since I think the Melee arrangements and the 3D Land theme fit it really well. Guess they could just plug in some Sunshine ripe (or, hey, finally give the game an arrangement!)

 

[kirby_fox]

Enough MII fighter costumes... how about dlc costumes for other characters?

I don't personally expect any. When you think that Lucina and Dark Pit were initially alts, and Alph was going to be made into a clone too but wasn't, the only alts that would never make it in alone would be the Koopalings. While alts like Mr. L would be interesting, I don't think it's a big enough base compared to focusing on brand new characters being repped by Mii costumes. I'm all for it, but I can't think of any character that should be turned into an alt either that isn't just something really worth doing with limited resources.

As for music and stages...we can always break "rules" and have the same music show up on 2 different stages. There's nothing stopping them from doing that. They put 5 songs on the Mario 64 stage instead of 6. Why not have songs on multiple stages?

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think when he said costumes for other characters he meant stuff like Ocarina of Time Link, Melee style Fox and Hyrule Warriors Sheik and not like Daisy or Bass or whatever.

 

[Green Mamba]

Pokemon and Zelda got hit with kind of an awkward stage distribution too, on the Wii U. Three Zelda stages, 2 of which are old and only two Pokemon stages, one of which is old? It feels incredibly small for series as large and important as Zelda and Pokemon. DLC kind of helped Zelda a bit, but it's still just another retro stage. Pokemon still doesn't have anything, and it doesn't seem likely we get a Pokemon stage as DLC.

Why did Zelda get two stages on the 3DS and not the Wii U? Zelda has a decent handheld presence, but ultimately it's the console games people consider the "real" Zelda. And I maybe understand Pokemon on the handheld, but it's Pokemon. It's the second largest series in Smash and the largest if we count sales of merchandise.

And yet Mario gets 86 new stages and 35 remixes on a NSMBU stage nobody plays on.

Yeah, I do feel Zelda and Pokemon are pretty wonky in this regard as well. Pokemon in particular in the Wii U version feels like such a small chunk of the pie. It has the same amount of stages as Animal Crossing, Kid Icarus, and Yoshi. But it's like... come on, it's Pokemon. Give us Pokemon Stadium 1 at least.

And yes, I definitely agree that Zelda having more new stages on the 3DS version than the Wii U version is odd. It kind of feels like Sakurai was specifically trying to make new stages based on games that hadn't had one yet for many of the Wii U stages (save Kirby, of course, because stage wise the series has never moved past Super Star!), and ran into an impasse with console Zelda development slowing way down. Kind of unfortunate, too, because while Skyloft is a perfectly fine stage to play on, it's not a looker graphically and is very boring conceptually (Delfino Plaza, but Zelda!).

 

[kirby_fox]

I think when he said costumes for other characters he meant stuff like Ocarina of Time Link, Melee style Fox and Hyrule Warriors Sheik and not like Daisy or Bass or whatever.

Not sure how I would feel about more color alts being sold...I mean, not that I'd care if they worked on them.

I'd just feel dirty about buying something so simple...

 

[Golnei]

Kind of unfortunate, too, because while Skyloft is a perfectly fine stage to play on, it's not a looker graphically and is very boring conceptually (Delfino Plaza, but Zelda!).

While I don't mind Skyloft, exactly, I agree that so much more could have been done visually and mechanically with something like an Ancient Cistern stage. I really hope the next game will finally give us a Zelda stage set in a dungeon - considering what a major part of the games they are, it's sort of weird that the closest we've gotten is a non-representative interpretation of a Zelda II palace.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Yeah, I do feel Zelda and Pokemon are pretty wonky in this regard as well. Pokemon in particular in the Wii U version feels like such a small chunk of the pie. It has the same amount of stages as Animal Crossing, Kid Icarus, and Yoshi. But it's like... come on, it's Pokemon. Give us Pokemon Stadium 1 at least.

And yes, I definitely agree that Zelda having more new stages on the 3DS version than the Wii U version is odd. It kind of feels like Sakurai was specifically trying to make new stages based on games that hadn't had one yet for many of the Wii U stages (save Kirby, of course, because stage wise the series has never moved past Super Star!), and ran into an impasse with console Zelda development slowing way down. Kind of unfortunate, too, because while Skyloft is a perfectly fine stage to play on, it's not a looker graphically and is very boring conceptually (Delfino Plaza, but Zelda!).

The neat thing about Zelda stages is every single 3D Zelda game has had a stage at some point.

Ocarina: Hyrule Castle 64
Majora: Great Bay
Wind Waker: Pirate Ship
Twilight Princess: Eldin
Skyward Sword: Skyloft

And maybe that's where he hit a block. Every console Zelda since Ocarina of Time has already had a stage. But then he made another stage for Ocarina of Time, so maybe not.

I think a cool re-imagining of a Link to the Past location would have worked really well. Like Ganon's Tower or some other part of Dark World. Or even a stage that switches between Dark and Light world every so often and a few things change on the stage. There's certainly enough Link to the Past remixes in the game to make an entire level.

Try something new with a Zelda stage besides ripping assets from the latest Zelda game and turning it into a stage.

FFS the assets for the NPCs around Bridge of Eldin are in the files for Brawl and Smash 4. That's how blatantly that stage was copied right from Twilight Princess. Zelda deserves much better than that. Like they did Temple and then decided that was the only Zelda area they were ever going to redo and every other stage would just be rips. Because of all the stages Zelda has, that's the only one in the series without ripped assets...

...maybe I'll get my Dark World stage if they ever decide to add Ganon.

Actually, with that note, Zelda hasn't gotten a proper new comer since Melee. Man, for as large and important Zelda is, it really does get the short end of the stick when it comes to Smash.

Not sure how I would feel about more color alts being sold...I mean, not that I'd care if they worked on them.

I'd just feel dirty about buying something so simple...

They'd probably be the same price as Mii Skins. If not cheaper because they would only be one model, versus the 4 needed for a Mii costume (Male, Female, Male Hat, Female Hat)

 

[balladofwindfishes]

dp.

 

[Golnei]

Not sure how I would feel about more color alts being sold...I mean, not that I'd care if they worked on them.

I'd just feel dirty about buying something so simple...

They were referring to entirely new models, not colour/texture swaps. Something to the extent of ZSS's Fusion alt, or the various additional Project M costumes.

I think a cool re-imagining of a Link to the Past location would have worked really well. Like Ganon's Tower or some other part of Dark World. Or even a stage that switches between Dark and Light world every so often and a few things change on the stage.

Try something new with a Zelda stage besides ripping assets from the latest Zelda game and turning it into a stage.

Considering how many stages have to be made for each game, including ones for series long-dead with no current or recent games which assets can be sourced from; it's understandable enough that they'll use model rips wherever possible.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Funny how I don't mind any of the hazards at all and yet Skyloft's decision to only have 5-7 second drop-offs for each location significantly hampers my enjoyment of the stage.

Yeah, yeah, "arrrghhgh but you hate Skyward Sword." But compare it to Delfino Plaza and the difference is super obvious.

 

[kirby_fox]

They were referring to entirely new models, not colour/texture swaps. Something to the extent of ZSS's Fusion alt, or the various additional Project M costumes.

Not sure I see the resources going to that then, nor my pocketbook.

I would however pay for the rest of Olimar's colors we lost from Brawl...I always played as the "dirty helmet" one.

 

[Masked Man]

Not sure about Melia, since her English voice actress is likely busy with Doctor Who (she's the current companion). If we were to get a second Xenoblade rep from the first game, it'd be either Dunban or Riki, but we all know how that turned out. Though one could make an argument for Reyn. Honestly, they'd be better off waiting until Smash 5 & adding Elma.

Whoa, I had no idea! I don't see them adding Reyn because he's more of a lovable sidekick than anything else. Fiora or Melia would allow for a new female representative, and Melia in particular offers a lot of potential for a new and interesting moveset. As much as I adore Dunban, I don't see him making it in as a playable character. I'm perfectly contented with my Mii Costume, though.

I really can't stop being bummed that both versions don't have Magicant. Even if the Flying Man is obnoxious, it would be nice to at least have the omega version.

You and me both. Easily my favorite of all the new stages, with or without Flying Man!

 

[Neoxon]

Whoa, I had no idea! I don't see them adding Reyn because he's more of a lovable sidekick than anything else. Fiora or Melia would allow for a new female representative, and Melia in particular offers a lot of potential for a new and interesting moveset. As much as I adore Dunban, I don't see him making it in as a playable character. I'm perfectly contented with my Mii Costume, though.



You and me both. Easily my favorite of all the new stages, with or without Flying Man!

My reasoning against Dunban isn't the Mii Costume, but rather him as a Final Smash assist. Riki has a double-whammy of Final Smash assist & a separate Assist Trophy. Those two would otherwise be my first choices for a second Xenoblade rep if the first game was the only option. As for Melia, I guess they could get away with recasting her if her old English VA is busy with Doctor Who (in the event that Sakurai wants to add her).

 

[Kouichi]

So PushDustin wrote another great article that is relevant to a recent discussion. It's about The Dangers of Online Polling.

I thought this bit was funny:

If I had to really simplify the wishes of each of the communities: Wonder Red is popular on NeoGaf, Daisy on Tumblr, Shovel Knight on r/smashbros, King K. Rool on SmashBoards, Chrom on Miiverse.

Of course GAF's is a Platinum character haha

 

[MrSaturn99]

Daisy on tumblr

Ahahahaha

 

[Red Arremer]

http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/08/11/wariofart1/#intro

Thanks!

 

[kirby_fox]

So PushDustin wrote another great article that is relevant to a recent discussion. It's about The Dangers of Online Polling.

I thought this bit was funny:


Of course GAF's is a Platinum character haha

This is really what I saw as I was looking into these polls not long ago. All the top characters were different across all these fan polls and not as close and straight forward as people think. But I didn't want to upset people by mentioning that at the time.

The saddest part of all of those "most popular" characters is that none are probably going to make it in.

 

[BGBW]

Honestly, I just see like the same two people spouting Wonder Red. I don't think there's any out right favourite here.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Where are people getting the "K. Rool is king all over the internet" thing?

 

[Kouichi]

Honestly, I just see like the same two people spouting Wonder Red. I don't think there's any out right favourite here.

There was a lot of Wonder Red support when this thread first went up. From my experience, Wonder Red, Bayonetta, and Snake are the most common requests I saw on GAF after the ballot announcement.

Though it's just an oversimplification and not meant to be taken as fact in any way. It's just interesting how the perception on who will "win" the ballot can vary depending on what community you go to.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Yah that's a dumb oversimplification meant to denounce us being able to predict anything with no alternative provided.

Do all websites now have equal standing and vote for their top choice an equal amount? Those choices aren't even accurate in some cases, just people who were vocal early in the poll, like Shovel Knight won a small Reddit poll in the first week but now, mentioning him gets you downvoted pretty quick. K. Isaac may not be #1 on every site but they're almost always top five or three while outside of the one site each that favor Wonder Red and Daisy, they are lucky to be top 35-3 lol.

Oh but what does it matter, its just a suggestion box where one vote is as good as ten thousand, tsk tsk.

 

[Regulus Tera]

The idea that tumblr is rallying behind Daisy to make it into the game is both logical and infuriating. I thought they didn't like princesses?

 

[NeonZ]

Those choices aren't even accurate in some cases, just people who were vocal early in the poll, like Shovel Knight won a small Reddit poll in the first week

Wouldn't those early requests actually weight more than later ones if you're looking at number representation for the ballot? I'd guess that most votes from the dedicated communities were thrown fairly early.

 

[Zubz]

What do people have against Daisy? I mean, I'm part of the "GAF <3's Wonder Red" push, and I want K. Rool more, but I'd rather have Daisy over most, including Chrom, Shovel Knight, or even Isaac. Again, just base her moveset off of the spin-offs ala Waluigi's AT and we're golden.

Also, on top of being a good character, Tumblr probably likes Daisy because she's more than cakes and kidnappings. She plays baseball/soccer, and punched out Bowser that one time. Tumblr doesn't hate Princess characters, they just hate traditional Disney-ish ones ala Peach. Thus, they love independent ones. They're thirst for Lucina pre-release put Horizon and Neiteio to shame, for example.

 

[backlot]

I'd buy Daisy DLC if she had "Hi I'm Daisy!" taunts.

 

[Ryce]

What do people have against Daisy?

She showed up for a minute in one handheld Super Mario game 26 years ago, and she's only been featured as an optional player character in spinoffs ever since then. She means absolutely nothing to the Mario franchise.

 

[Green Mamba]

Daisy is like Waluigi--Mario character entirely relegated to spinoffs--but not even half as interesting.

 

[UglyRareCharacter]

Wouldn't those early requests actually weight more than later ones if you're looking at number representation for the ballot? I'd guess that most votes from the dedicated communities were thrown fairly early.

You're right though since they're for Shovel Knight I don't it matters either way lol. Point being the article says we shouldn't generalize who is popular but then goes even further generalizing who is popular.

Edit, with Daisy there are also a lot of trolly users on Gamefaqs who make topics about her every day and basically are everything everyone else claimed the Ridley fans were, just with a less major character.

 

[BGBW]

Unlike Peach she actually got into the Mario Bros Movie.

 

[kirby_fox]

Daisy is like Waluigi--Mario character entirely relegated to spinoffs--but not even half as interesting.

Waluigi isn't even interesting. A lot of his persona has been created by fans. Fans are now creating a bad-ass persona around Daisy too which is why people want Daisy in.

The only one that I saw that I think has a realistic shot at the top of these polls was Isaac. He was an AT in Brawl and we've seen the Golden Sun games hit the Wii U VC before a lot of other titles have. Felt like a strange series to put on the VC, but feels even stranger to not have any representation of the series in Smash 4 at all.

 

[Green Mamba]

Waluigi isn't even interesting.

That's what I was getting at. That's how uninteresting Daisy is as a potential Smash character.

 

[Ryce]

I don’t even know if this makes sense — I know the first Golden Sun sold and reviewed well, but Mother and Xenoblade have a “this is something special” mystique that Golden Sun doesn’t. It just doesn’t feel like a big enough deal to get a character. It’s not retro, and it’s not currently active. It would seem strange to introduce a minor IP into Smash Bros. 14 years after its peak relevance.

 

[Nia]

That said, I'd much rather get Fiora or Melia as a second Xenoblade rep.

Having Melia Starlight Kick other Nintendo characters is something I can only dream of.

 

[BGBW]

They should have added Isaac to the 3DS version to begin with, but with only half his moves available until the Wii U version came out which would allow you to access the second half of his moveset.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I think people are forgetting Captain Toad and Paper Mario when discussing Mario DLC characters. Both have a good bit of support and both would work really well in Smash.

And "lol third mario" stuff is nonsense because Paper Mario might as well be its own series and the Mario in PM is different.

Also if Paper Mario gets in, this is the required Victory Tune. God help me, if Sakurai messes up and makes it some dumb song from a newer Paper Mario remixed or some trash like that, I will be furious.

I've wanted Paper Mario since Melee, and I'm kind of surprised it's even taken this long just to get Paper Mario music. Also if my theory of every New Comer coming with a stage is true, we'd get another Paper Mario Stage, and one on the console that should have had a Paper Mario stage a decade ago. And that means Paper Mario rips and remixes and fun times! Except they'll all be from Sticker Star because other Paper Mario's don't exist. And Paper Mario 64 especially doesn't exist.

 

[Karsticles]

Daisy is like Waluigi--Mario character entirely relegated to spinoffs--but not even half as interesting.

I think a healthy debate could be had over which character is less interesting.

 

[JCX]

Agree completely about Paper Mario. He'd be more distinct from Mario than Doc. I'd also love to see the 3DS PM stage on a bigger screen.

 

[Tyeforce]

I don’t even know if this makes sense — I know the first Golden Sun sold and reviewed well, but Mother and Xenoblade have a “this is something special” mystique that Golden Sun doesn’t. It just doesn’t feel like a big enough deal to get a character. It’s not retro, and it’s not currently active. It would seem strange to introduce a minor IP into Smash Bros. 14 years after its peak relevance.

I feel the same way, too. Ever since the idea of Shulk possibly getting into Smash Bros. became very real due to the Gematsu leak, I've sort of compared Xenoblade to EarthBound, and Shulk to Ness. Neither are very popular franchises or characters compared to other franchises and characters in Smash Bros., but there's just something special about them. Even if you haven't played them, you can tell that there's something special about them by how they're revered those who have. It's like, you just know that these games, while ultimately niche, will no doubt be timeless classics and will go on to be great influences. I think it's safe to say that that's definitely the case with EarthBound, and while Xenoblade is still relatively new, it seems to be heading the same direction, too.

Golden Sun, on the other hand, hasn't really been received in quite the same way. It was certainly popular on the GBA, but it kind of seems to fall more in line with other Nintendo franchises like, say, The Legendary Starfy or Fossil Fighters to me, though it's probably more popular than any of those. But it just doesn't stand out in the way that EarthBound and Xenoblade do, if that makes any sense. And to be fair, Golden Sun is one of the few Nintendo franchises that I haven't yet played, so I may not be able to analyze it the best, but just by going off of how the different franchises are received, I think it's pretty clear.

Also, another thing that may have helped both Ness and Shulk get into Smash Bros. is their connection with the development of the Smash Bros. games. HAL Laboratories worked on both EarthBound and the original Super Smash Bros. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that is the main reason why Ness got in, because the people working on the game were close to EarthBound and pushed for it. Shulk's situation isn't exactly the same, but Monolith Soft did help develop Brawl, and they released Xenoblade a couple years later. I know it probably wasn't the same Monolith Soft studio that developed Xenoblade, but there may have been some key people who made connections with Sakurai, which may have helped lead to Shulk's inclusion in the next game.

I think it may come down to both the "specialness" of those two franchises plus possible developer ties to the development of Smash Bros. that got them included. Sakurai has strict guidelines about which kind of characters can be included, but we know he'll make exceptions, like how Snake was added at Kojima's request. Like Ness and Shulk, Snake isn't a character you'd expect for Smash Bros., for different reasons (Ness and Shulk due to popularity, and Snake due to, well, third-party status and not having the strongest history with Nintendo), but those characters all made it in against the odds due to being "special," I think. Snake may not be quite on par with Sonic or PAC-MAN in terms of being iconic (not that he's not iconic at all, of course, just not quite at the same level), but I don't believe Sakurai would have added Snake in Brawl if he didn't think there was something special about him. Same with Ness and Shulk.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Shulk is also first party Nintendo, which probably gave him a huge leg up.

Itoi is also really good friends with the old HAL crew, and was especially close to Iwata. I figure this is the reason Ness got in 64.

Camelot isn't quite in the same position.

 

[NeonZ]

I think a healthy debate could be had over which character is less interesting.

Eh, at least Waluigi's goofy animations and voices are pretty easily noticeable in any of his appearances, and that's what would make it to Smash. It doesn't matter if he has nothing beyond that surface level, that surface level is the only thing visible in Smash. Look at Dark Pit, who's pretty boring as a character in Smash since he needs actual story and dialogue to really be fun.

Daisy, at least half of the time, and likely more, is just a Peach clone, with her supposed "tomboy" gimmick being nowhere to be seen even in her animations. People who want Daisy as a standalone character wish she came straight out of Strikers or something, but that'd never happen. If we got Daisy, she'd be in her standard yellow dress, especially considering the movement in Smash 4 to bring the Smash Mario characters closer to their official designs.