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Smash Wii U & 3DS Downloadable Characters Discussion and Information on Smash Ballot

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kirby_fox

Banned
My guess is that they had already started working on the 4 characters we got as DLC before the game was out.

I think what likely happened was that they had a deadline for Mewtwo coming out, so that's why he felt rushed and not fully tested. The fix came super fast, so it's not surprising. Otherwise we may have simply seen him launch at E3 alongside the other 3.

I'm expecting them to be working on customs now, due to the amiibo coming out this year while also working on getting the last characters done. I think they want to have one more big update and smaller updates with costumes before end of year.

This would mean we'll get more costumes in a couple weeks, more costumes after that in September, prob a reminder that October is it for the ballot, November we'll see a huge push with content and a "you chose this character!" Marketing with that character and costumes launching in Feb. Smash would finish out with a final balance and costume push in March or April.

A couple months before the big NX reveal. (Smash won't be ported, but smash 6 might be earlier than we expect)
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
My guess is that they had already started working on the 4 characters we got as DLC before the game was out.

I think what likely happened was that they had a deadline for Mewtwo coming out, so that's why he felt rushed and not fully tested. The fix came super fast, so it's not surprising. Otherwise we may have simply seen him launch at E3 alongside the other 3.

I'm expecting them to be working on customs now, due to the amiibo coming out this year while also working on getting the last characters done. I think they want to have one more big update and smaller updates with costumes before end of year.

This would mean we'll get more costumes in a couple weeks, more costumes after that in September, prob a reminder that October is it for the ballot, November we'll see a huge push with content and a "you chose this character!" Marketing with that character and costumes launching in Feb. Smash would finish out with a final balance and costume push in March or April.

A couple months before the big NX reveal. (Smash won't be ported, but smash 6 might be earlier than we expect)
I doubt that we'll get Smash 5 game that soon, mainly because it'd be too recent since the end of Smash 4's DLC development
 

kirby_fox

Banned
I doubt that we'll get Smash 5 game that soon, mainly because it'd be too recent since the end of Smash 4's DLC development

64 and Melee had a relatively small gap. I can see a smaller gap here if they already had it planned out.

Especially if the next console can use a lot of assets from the Wii U. It won't be a port, but it might feel like a slight upgrade.
 
64 and Melee had a relatively small gap. I can see a smaller gap here if they already had it planned out.

Especially if the next console can use a lot of assets from the Wii U. It won't be a port, but it might feel like a slight upgrade.

Melee was rushed and almost didn't make its deadline. It also had a much smaller, less complicated, roster.
 

kirby_fox

Banned
Melee was rushed and almost didn't make its deadline. It also had a much smaller, less complicated, roster.

Which is why I mentioned using assets from Wii U. Taking this as a base game and upgrading everything, adding more characters, dropping modes and adding others.

I'm not saying next year. I'm saying 2017, 2018. Considering release was in 2014, a three year gap between launches makes sense.

Plus, they need more characters for amiibo!
 

Tyeforce

Member
Anyway, I want to speculate something on development. Here I go.

Hypotheical Development Process, based on WHAT IF!

It's more likely that they would work on several characters at same time during Smash 4 development but now their team is much smaller than it was. I was thinking that they might still follow the development process so this time they probably work on two characters at same time. (It's possible that they could have working on three characters at once but we don't know any numbers of workers on their team right now.)

Hypothetically Sakurai actually have a plan to work on 8 downloadable characters so they might find it easier to split four characters into four batches of two characters; like a veteran and a newcomer. I strongly believe that veterans are more likely to be easier to be work on; comparing to newcomers.

I have a feeling that we meant to get Lucas and Mewtwo at same time As we discussed in the thread that we assumed that Mewtwo was rushed to be release to the public because of Club Nintendo. Therefore they probably decide to push Lucas into second batch.

Assumed Plan for DLC characters

Batch #1: Mewtwo and Lucas

Batch #2: Ryu and Roy

Yeah, I admit that there is a flaw in my theory. First batch of characters don't really have any newcomer. Yes, Mewtwo isn't newcomer but he don't really have any model from Super Smash Bros Brawl. Mewtwo According to Sakurai, they really have a difficult time to transplant original data. Basically they would have to start all over again with the model, hitbox, etc with Mewtwo.

What about Roy? Yeah, I'm aware that he's not in Super Smash Bros Melee. The situation with Roy is pretty different since they could start working on Marth's moveset and make any adjustments in attempt to luigified Roy.

Now you could see what I'm trying to go with.

Disclaimers: Characters that i listed is just pure examples. Yes, it's biased examples.

Batch #3: Isaac and Wolf.

Batch #4: Inkling and Snake

I'm pretty sure that most of you are aware that I already emphasized that my expectation is two more downloadable characters. However, I just want to speculate the chance that we could get 4 more characters.

So what do you think about it?

I know it's really silly (or maybe stupid) rambling. I just want to speculate since I'm bored right now.
I can see something like this happening. Another two sets of two DLC characters would be perfect. Personally, I'd like to see...

Batch #3: Wolf and Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character)

Batch #4: Ice Climber(s) (I'll take a solo Popo/Nana if that's the only option) and Inkling

Dixie Kong could potentially be swapped out for Ice Climber(s) or Inkling, or even the Rhythm Heaven character. Wolf's gotta be a lock. Outside of these characters, I can't really imagine much else... I think Snake's chances of returning are next to nothing at this point, and I doubt we'll get more of the cut Pokémon veterans. While characters like Isaac or Wonder-Red would be cool, I really don't see it happening due to popularity of their franchises (to be fair, Golden Sun had respectable popularity back on the GBA, but not so much anymore). On the other hand, Rhythm Heaven and Splatoon are clearly Nintendo's biggest franchises that aren't already in Smash Bros. (even though Splatoon only has one recently released game to its franchise, it's clearly a franchise that Nintendo is going to continue to push moving forward, which can't be said about many of their other side-franchises). I suppose Paper Mario is an option, but I wouldn't expect another Mario character.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
I can see something like this happening. Another two sets of two DLC characters would be perfect. Personally, I'd like to see...

Batch #3: Wolf and Chorus Kids (or any other Rhythm Heaven character)

Batch #4: Ice Climber(s) (I'll take a solo Popo/Nana if that's the only option) and Inkling

Dixie Kong could potentially be swapped out for Ice Climber(s) or Inkling, or even the Rhythm Heaven character. Wolf's gotta be a lock. Outside of these characters, I can't really imagine much else... I think Snake's chances of returning are next to nothing at this point, and I doubt we'll get more of the cut Pokémon veterans. While characters like Isaac or Wonder-Red would be cool, I really don't see it happening due to popularity of their franchises (to be fair, Golden Sun had respectable popularity back on the GBA, but not so much anymore). On the other hand, Rhythm Heaven and Splatoon are clearly Nintendo's biggest franchises that aren't already in Smash Bros. (even though Splatoon only has one recently released game to its franchise, it's clearly a franchise that Nintendo is going to continue to push moving forward, which can't be said about many of their other side-franchises). I suppose Paper Mario is an option, but I wouldn't expect another Mario character.

Yeah, I already knew that Isaac and Snake's chances are very low at best, but I would support them to the end. I would be okay with any of your choices since I'm rooting for them as well.

Also there is a good Ice Climbers post in the past that explained that we could have Ice Climbers without losing Nana (or Popo)

Well they could get rid of the CPU AI altogether or simplify it. Chaingrabbing being gone from the game means there isn't as much of an incentive to desync and there really isn't a big reason to keep up the CPU AI unless Nana is trying to recover.

Rather than only Popo, I think the next best solution is having them act as an always on Sougenmu.

For those who don't know what I'm talking about here are links to Sougenmu.
http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Twin_Dream
Sougenmu in Fighting Games

Like Zero from the Vs. Capcom series and Mega Man X5, Nana would basically act as a shadow clone and work like Sougenmu by mirroring Popo's inputs with a .1 second delay in between.

You would keep the two character idea and implement a new fighting style which encourages Ice Climber mains to rack up and kill their opponent fast. A Sougenmu-like play style would allow Ice Climbers to quickly rack up damage and kill opponents at the expense of halving damage and knock back output when Nana dies.

It's sorta like Rosalina and Luma but Nana doesn't respawn till the stock ends.

It's a nice compromise seeing that the main reason for desyncing in the game is gone and the fact that it gives you a secondary option while keeping the dual character-style play relevant.

A permanent Sougenmu/Shadow Clone is basically Ice Climbers without chain grab desyncs and AI, but with better Kill Potential.
 

Hatchtag

Banned
I still really, really wonder if they'll do a Super Smash Bros. for NX version. I can't see them doing Smash 6 soon. But I also can't see them not putting a Smash on a new console. Upgrading Smash 3DS/Wii U would make sense-but I think they might worry about screwing over Smash Bros for Wii U/3DS owners, because there's no way it wouldn't recycle a lot of content from those games. There's also no way I can see Sakurai allowing it to just be a port of the Wii U version with no real content being added in.

If I had to guess, the route where they risk screwing over Wii U/3DS owners would be most likely, because while people who bought those versions might feel cheated, they probably wouldn't care much because they'll want more Smash content.
 
I can see them doing a Smash Bros. "GOTY" version for the NX, that has all the DLC included, and maybe includes both 3DS and Wii U stage rosters and modes.
 

Golnei

Member
If I had to guess, the route where they risk screwing over Wii U/3DS owners would be most likely, because while people who bought those versions might feel cheated, they probably wouldn't care much because they'll want more Smash content.

This feels more likely to me as well - along with those who owned neither console (in the unlikely event the NX appeals to anyone outside the tiny Nintendo bubble) 3DS players might find something appealing in a HD version of the game 2 years later, and the people who bought a Wii U game so late into the system's life might as well be guaranteed sales.

Though if they really cared that much about not alienating the tiny fraction of SSB4 sales that the Wii U game consisted of, maybe the hypothetical additions made in the NX version could also be available as DLC. If there's a NX handheld with similar or inferior specifications to the Wii U which the game also has to run on, it might make it easy to continue supporting the Wii U version even after it's been replaced. If they can do that, I wonder how feasible cross-platform play would be...

I can see them doing a Smash Bros. "GOTY" version for the NX, that has all the DLC included, and maybe includes both 3DS and Wii U stage rosters and modes.

Including the 3DS content would seem to be the natural choice for a NX version (especially since the vast majority of Smash Run enemies also have higher-quality models in the Wii U version languishing in Smash Tour); but hopefully there's a few extra things beyond that, whether or not they come to the Wii U version as DLC as well.
 

Hatchtag

Banned
I would guess, if they were to do an NX version, it'd keep roster parity but not stage parity. Probably keep all of the Wii U stages + more past stages/3DS stages. I don't mean that they'd not add characters, just that those characters would be available as DLC on the other versions.

Or, ideally, they'll keep roster parity for almost everything but add Ice Climbers.
 

Zubz

Banned
Yeah, I already knew that Isaac and Snake's chances are very low at best, but I would support them to the end. I would be okay with any of your choices since I'm rooting for them as well.

Also there is a good Ice Climbers post in the past that explained that we could have Ice Climbers without losing Nana (or Popo)

Huh. I was against that idea before someone compared it to Zero. Now I kind of like it! But then I'd start to want a character that has Morrigan's mechanic from her own games/the VS. games where she can attack players from both sides of them. Then it turns into a slippery slope where I start screaming for Darkstalkers characters. I don't think anyone here wants me to put them through that!

Though I guess Nintendo has never seen a proper Darkstalkers game... Morrigan's been in the, like, 2 Vs. games on Nintendo systems, so she's not entirely out of the question, but that's it, IIRC. Which sucks, because everyone knows that Victor's the best character.
 

NeonZ

Member
Though I guess Nintendo has never seen a proper Darkstalkers game... Morrigan's been in the, like, 2 Vs. games on Nintendo systems, so she's not entirely out of the question, but that's it, IIRC. Which sucks, because everyone knows that Victor's the best character.

There's also Demitri in the Project X Zone games. Zabel/Raptor and Jedah also were in the first one, although I don't know if they'll stay.
 
I really doubt these are all the stages we're going to get. DLC will probably continue on until at least Winter of 2016. I also have a hunch all new comers will come with a stage to offset a price increase on them.

He also hasn't even touched Brawl stages yet, and there's a whole pile of them he can easily just directly port.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get a DLC stage that doesn't come with a new remix as well. Not all returning stages for Smash 4 got a remix. In fact not even all new stages got a remix. So a perceived hurdle of old stages isn't even there.

Just to be clear, by "Winter 2016" you mean January/February, right?

And while I'd love Pirate Ship to come back, I think we have more than enough Brawl stages. I know they're easier to port but I'd rather have a 64/Melee stage we haven't seen in forever (preferably Melee since we haven't had a DLC stage from that yet).

So I guess they're re-recording those boss lines then.

Should I feel bad that I laughed at this?
 
Just to be clear, by "Winter 2016" you mean January/February, right?

And while I'd love Pirate Ship to come back, I think we have more than enough Brawl stages. I know they're easier to port but I'd rather have a 64/Melee stage we haven't seen in forever (preferably Melee since we haven't had a DLC stage from that yet).

I was thinking March or early April, so Smash would have one year of DLC, like Mario Kart had. I'd love for it to go a lot longer than that, though.

If we go by "used music = can't add stage" then the amount of Melee stages open to be added is Icicle Mountain, Great Bay, Fourside and Mushroom Kingdom I. And Icicle Mountain and Great Bay are just alternate music, not the main theme.

I don't necessarily think that a stage's music being used already means it won't be added, but so far for DLC that's held true. And it is kind of weird Yoshi's Story wasn't picked, for example, considering it was in Melee.

A stage like Big Blue for instance, could be ported from Brawl and has ample music to take from where not having its original two pieces of music probably wouldn't be a big deal. The Melee Big Blue theme is also fairly generic, just a re-orchestrating of the F-Zero X version of the song. Versus something like Fountain of Dreams, where part of the identity of the stage is its iconic music. You can see this with Jungle Japes on the 3DS. Doesn't have its original music, but nobody notices because it originally had a generic remix of the jungle theme we've heard 80 million times. It's why I think Great Bay could get away with not using it's default music, but Icicle Mountain couldn't.

Fourside would be easy to have music, every song cut from Brawl works perfectly on it (You Call This a Utopia, and Humoresque of a Little Dog). Throw in the 16 bit original Fourside (or even Moonside) and maybe the original 8-Bit Bein' Friends (or even the 8-bit Hippie Song, which was planned for Brawl) and there's a nice roster of music for the stage.

Maybe
- Fourside
- Great Bay

- Pirate Ship
- Frigate Orpheon

And then call it done for classic stages. The rest of the DLC stages would be new and tied to new comers.
 

Zubz

Banned
There's also Demitri in the Project X Zone games. Zabel/Raptor and Jedah also were in the first one, although I don't know if they'll stay.

Oh yeah... Although I guess getting Victor would be like if we got Zangief instead of Ryu. Even if Demitri and Morrigan were meant to be "Ryu & Chun Li," at this point, Morrigan's got more protagonist cred, so it'd have to be those 2 if we got a Darkstalkers character.

... Or it could be a 3rd Capcom character. and thus have no chance of happening.

And I know Chris Pranger was kind of rude at points in that interview, that's still really sad. Outside of seeming harsh about people attributing lost Wii U sales to the name, and about not localizing Xenoblade, nothing seemed to be too attention-grabby. I assumed he'd get a talking to, but nothing this bad. I guess he can't really say anything about internal affairs.

I wish him the best of luck in his future endeavors. Things may seem low for him now, but I'm sure he'll be back on his feet in no time! Still, it's unfortunate to hear about what's happening at the moment.
 

Kjellson

Member
Does anyone else think that Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X might be a candidate for next DLC or next Smash game? Haven't played he game yet obviously but she seems to be the big character in XBX.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Does anyone else think that Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X might be a candidate for next DLC or next Smash game? Haven't played he game yet obviously but she seems to be the big character in XBX.
She definitely has a shot at Smash 5 as the second Xenoblade rep.
 

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
She definitely has a shot at Smash 5 as the second Xenoblade rep.

Does anyone else think that Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X might be a candidate for next DLC or next Smash game? Haven't played he game yet obviously but she seems to be the big character in XBX.

Obviously, I haven't play the game but is Elma considered to be main protagonist?

They usually put the main protagonist in smash bros first so I guess they would go with redheaded main character (default look)
 
Did anybody check out that two parter look at Wario in Brawl/Smash 4 on Source-Gaming? I don't agree with it entirely (I still think Smash as a whole barely acknowledges the Land series exists), but there's some pretty cool retrospectives on just how different the character's portrayal in Japan and the West was I wasn't entirely aware of, as well as how the blurbs about him in-game for Smash differing from region to region change quite about his perception.

Also a translated answer from Sakurai about Wario's jerky, G&W-style movements in Brawl... Which just confused me even further since he wasn't really a Famicon-era character in the first place, but it's doesn't really matter now after Smash 4 scrapped that aspect.
 

Kjellson

Member
Obviously, I haven't play the game but is Elma considered to be main protagonist?

They usually put the main protagonist in smash bros first so I guess they would go with redheaded main character (default look)
If I understood right, the avatar as you play as doesn't say shit during the entire game and is just there as a playable character. I think Elma is a big part of the story.
 

Golnei

Member
She definitely has a shot at Smash 5 as the second Xenoblade rep.

If Xenoblade X were to get any playable representation, it'd definitely be her; but I'm not sure how likely a second Xenoblade character would be in the first place. The series as a whole is still both relatively new and not exceptionally popular - and for something occupying the general niche of Golden Sun, The Last Story and Baten Kaitos to get a playable character at all is already far beyond the norm for the series.
 

Masked Man

I said wow
If I understood right, the avatar as you play as doesn't say shit during the entire game and is just there as a playable character. I think Elma is a big part of the story.

Yeah, the protagonist's dialogue is limited to a series of "A or B" prompts in response to whatever the other characters say.

That said, I'd much rather get Fiora or Melia as a second Xenoblade rep. :)
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Yeah, the protagonist's dialogue is limited to a series of "A or B" prompts in response to whatever the other characters say.

That said, I'd much rather get Fiora or Melia as a second Xenoblade rep. :)
Not sure about Melia, since her English voice actress is likely busy with Doctor Who (she's the current companion). If we were to get a second Xenoblade rep from the first game, it'd be either Dunban or Riki, but we all know how that turned out. Though one could make an argument for Reyn. Honestly, they'd be better off waiting until Smash 5 & adding Elma.
 
Anyway, here's what the stage select screen looks like with all stages from both versions.
oxHkHma.png

NZM7ow4.png
Pretty awesome.

Maybe someday this will happen. It also shows just how much strain the two versions put on stages, since this roster looks amazing, while the two games on their own are both a big mediocre.
 
Anyway, here's what the stage select screen looks like with all stages from both versions.

Pretty awesome.

Maybe someday this will happen. It also shows just how much strain the two versions put on stages, since this roster looks amazing, while the two games on their own are both a big mediocre.
That stage mockup is pretty neat looking but I still think it's straight bonkers that Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus got a new stage in both versions while Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Star Fox only got one each.

EDIT: Also kind of highlights how samey a lot of the Mario stages look, at least in their initial form.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Anyway, here's what the stage select screen looks like with all stages from both versions.

Pretty awesome.

Maybe someday this will happen. It also shows just how much strain the two versions put on stages, since this roster looks amazing, while the two games on their own are both a big mediocre.
This is probably what the NX version would look like (though the NSMB2 stage would need some changes), with a few more stages that could be added as future DLC.
 
This is probably what the NX version would look like (though the NSMB2 stage would need some changes), with a few more stages that could be added as future DLC.

Most of the 3DS stages wouldn't really port that great to an HD console. Stuff like Spirit Tracks would look awful on the NX. That stage doesn't even look that great on the 3DS.

I think all the retro stages (since they're all just Brawl ports) and a handful of some of the visually nicer 3DS stages could come back. Stuff like Magicant, Balloon Fight and Mute City. They'd work decently well in HD with minimal effort.

Kind of makes me wonder how they'll treat the 3DS stages for future games as "retro" stages, since the visual quality difference on them might be pretty jarring. With the N64 stages, they have sort of a low poly charm to them, but a lot of the 3DS games fall in an awkward spot where they're not charmingly low poly, but not really all that nice looking either.

That stage mockup is pretty neat looking but I still think it's straight bonkers that Fire Emblem and Kid Icarus got a new stage in both versions while Donkey Kong, Metroid, and Star Fox only got one each.

EDIT: Also kind of highlights how samey a lot of the Mario stages look, at least in their initial form.

For FE, Castle Siege is a fairly graphically intensive stage. And if that wasn't able to work on the 3DS, FE wouldn't have a stage on the 3DS.

Also FE is one of the largest series in Smash as far as reps go. FE even has a ton of music for a series with only three stages in its entire history.

KI I assume was because the 3DS assets ported easily.
 
I wonder how they'd divide up the music if such a version was ever made. For some stages, you'd have to supply some new rips/arrangements.

Did anybody check out that two parter look at Wario in Brawl/Smash 4 on Source-Gaming? I don't agree with it entirely (I still think Smash as a whole barely acknowledges the Land series exists), but there's some pretty cool retrospectives on just how different the character's portrayal in Japan and the West was I wasn't entirely aware of, as well as how the blurbs about him in-game for Smash differing from region to region change quite about his perception.

Also a translated answer from Sakurai about Wario's jerky, G&W-style movements in Brawl... Which just confused me even further since he wasn't really a Famicon-era character in the first place, but it's doesn't really matter now after Smash 4 scrapped that aspect.

That was an incredibly fascinating read. Can't say I'm entirely pleased with the overall Wario representation in Smash either but now it makes more sense.
 
Did anybody check out that two parter look at Wario in Brawl/Smash 4 on Source-Gaming?

Do you have a link?

Most of the 3DS stages wouldn't really port that great to an HD console. Stuff like Spirit Tracks would look awful on the NX. That stage doesn't even look that great on the 3DS.

I think it shouldn't be too difficult to brush up the looks of the 3DS stages for a hypothetical NX version featuring them. Since they'd already be doing an "upgraded" version, I don't think it's far-fetched to think they'd upgrade the stages' visuals to coincide with the new hardware.
 
I wonder how they'd divide up the music if such a version was ever made. For some stages, you'd have to supply some new rips/arrangements.

I'm not sure music would be that big of a deal. There's a lot of it to go around, some stages are just jam packed with music.

Yarn Yoshi, for example, would lose the RPG music and the Yoshi's Island Brawl music, but could snipe Yoshi's Story 64 off Yoshi's Island Melee where it makes no sense and still have a Brawl sized music roster. It could probably grab one song from YI:B as well if it needed to, since YI has a decent music selection in Brawl anyway.

A lot of stages have way more music than one stage necessarily needs. Miiverse is just hilarious with the pile of leftovers it got because they wouldn't fit on another stage.
 
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