AbortedWalrusFetus
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Ashhong said:
It may be the only non-strained openly communicating relationship in the history of kdrama though.
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SNSD and K-Pop Fanboy/Fangirl |OT|
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It may be the only non-strained openly communicating relationship in the history of kdrama though.
Speaking of actresses, who is this girl in Epik High's music video for Fan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJEruchZkBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJEruchZkBk
Alta1r said:
according to youtube comments "Hong Soo Ah"
edit:
uh oh
http://www.allkpop.com/2011/06/shin-se-kyung-and-shinees-jonghyun-are-no-longer-dating
TheKaeptain
Banned
HAIR DOWN AND A COLLAR!Salazar said:To all the hatersCHEEZMO
TheKaeptain
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I tried to dream of her last night. Didn't workout. Me and Jessica in Santa Monica again.Peru said:
TheKaeptain
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broadwayrock
Member
TheKaeptain
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Everyone is afraid of that buff dude.
Edit: can K-pop gaf point me in the director of good places or tools that teach Korean? I want to learn.
Edit: can K-pop gaf point me in the director of good places or tools that teach Korean? I want to learn.
Couldn't find the episode on YouTube but I did find this, which is almost better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws-3EKyiH2M&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws-3EKyiH2M&feature=related
Fafnir said:
Oh snap! Thanks Fafnir!
RZI said:
Yes - I'm learning. So technically I guess I do speak it.. Korean has some ok resources out there, but nothing that out-weighs the Elementary/Continuing Korean books out there. They are pretty much the best way to learn the language from scratch all the way to some degree of fluency.
syoaran said:
How about this? I heard the program is pretty good (for most languages).
http://www.rosettastone.com/learn-korean
I started watching Family Outing a while ago and it's really cracking me up.
They all play in so well at each others, only doubt I have is that they will use the same stereotypes for too long.
Like Stepmother Kim versus Chunderella and Dumb & Dumber...... Altough I don't really mind the last pair.
Of course, can't leave without these beautiful ones.
http://lei.snu.ac.kr/site/en/klec/click-korean/index.jsp
http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/category/lessons/level-1/?sort=date_asc
I don't know how good it is, so please do tell if they aren't worth it.
They all play in so well at each others, only doubt I have is that they will use the same stereotypes for too long.
Like Stepmother Kim versus Chunderella and Dumb & Dumber...... Altough I don't really mind the last pair.
Of course, can't leave without these beautiful ones.
I haven't started yet, but I got this recommended a while ago for starting very low level:RZI said:
http://lei.snu.ac.kr/site/en/klec/click-korean/index.jsp
http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/category/lessons/level-1/?sort=date_asc
I don't know how good it is, so please do tell if they aren't worth it.
Damn, too many good Yoona/Jessica moments in that episode of SK. I need to watch it once for the translations and one more time for the actual show.
EDIT: whoa, WTF, JaeKyung is on this episode and they didn't pick her for any of the tricks?? Or TV cuts?? Blasphemy! And that spoon trick at the end was pretty dumb. The rest were pretty good though.
EDIT: whoa, WTF, JaeKyung is on this episode and they didn't pick her for any of the tricks?? Or TV cuts?? Blasphemy! And that spoon trick at the end was pretty dumb. The rest were pretty good though.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
CaptYamato said:
I would say "We should put this in the OP" but nobody looks at that.RZI said:
To start out, first go here and use unit 1 & 2 to learn hangeul: http://lei.snu.ac.kr/site/en/klec/click-korean/index.jsp
The other units are okay, I guess, but I don't like them. The program itself is so-so but that hangeul teaching format is freaking incredible. You must learn hangeul first because there is no English equivalent for most Korean sounds. You'll find that even the ones that sound similar to English are made by doing different things with your tongue.
I think the easiest example to point this out is the "S" sound. You don't do it like you do in English, which is why it sounds like "sh" when you put an "i" sound after it, yet not when you put an "e" sound after it. This is because neither the "sh" nor the "i" are exactly like they are in English. What you think you are hearing is an illusion, it is your brain filling in the space between the sounds your ears are getting and what you already know.
So this is why you must learn hangeul first. Learn the new sounds, learn the new forms of the seemingly familiar sounds, and permanently bind them with those symbols. Romanizations not only have a terrible time trying to represent these sounds, but they are incapable of representing their dynamics between sounds and the written form and there are also multiple "standards" for romanization so you would have to re-learn each different romanizing system.
So I guess we should even write this down as rules for all Korean-language hopefuls:
1) LEARN 한글
2) ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES, THEY ARE POISON TO PROPER LEARNING
3) SERIOUSLY, DON'T EVEN LOOK AT THEM, THEY ARE POISON TO PROPER LEARNING
Okay, that said, the website I just gave still doesn't have everything you might want to learn how to get the sounds down. That is why I would recommend going here:
http://www.koreanwikiproject.com
And using their hangeul system at the same time. In their "additional practice" for the hangeul section there are some very helpful tools to contrast certain similar sounds. This will help you sharpen your hearing skills and more accurately guess what symbols are being verbally represented in the future...
...but wait, why are we developing these skills first?
There are a few different reasons:
1) Because Korean has so many new sounds, your English-speaking brain hears it and either tries to interpret it as English sounds or simply dismisses it as gibberish. If your brain doesn't natively consider it to be real language, if you try to memorize Korean words you won't be able to pick them out of a sentence because your brain is throwing out the whole sentence.
2) In a similar manner, Korean grammar is very different from English grammar. To have any concept of what a person is saying you will have to become familiar with Korean grammar and the sounds which represent it. If you have no ability to distinguish fine details of the sounds of Korean, you won't be able to separate word roots from their grammatical attachments.
3) I cannot overstate how big that last part is. While in one sense you will come to see that Korean is genius when it comes to the flow of sounds, the dynamics between sound and written form, and the integration of grammar, you will also come to see how the more perfect the system, the less room there is for outside elements. This is not like English where you pick and choose from several other languages and incorporate those elements. It is not "open source" so to speak, but it is a very "proprietary" language. You need to develop a mind for it, and this first happens by developing ears and eyes for it.
So aside from these recommended websites, I recommend continuing with Korean media. Listen to lots of Korean music, watch a lot of Korean TV. If you watch with subtitles, follow up by watching without subtitles so you can soak in all the sounds even better. Eventually you will start recognizing words that you have commonly heard and ask "What is that? I keep hearing it!" and when you do learn the definition, it will stick, and it will stand out of sentences like a golden thread.
Now, with that in mind, here is what I would consider by far to be the best site for getting started in learning practical speech and basic grammar:
http://www.talktomeinkorean.com/
These are amazing people. They are fun, encouraging, good-size lessons that challenge but do not overburden, and they follow a natural and helpful progression that is practical for life as a new speaker of Korean. Beyond the lessons, they are a very committed team of teachers. You can ask them questions and they will get back to you. I don't know how this whole project is getting funded, but I'm very glad that it is and I love these people and what they are doing. Just ignore the romanizations in the PDFs and it should be entirely beneficial.
Through studying there, you will start to realize what I was saying before about the ingenious structure of Korean and the way it flows very naturally, yet you will also see what I mean about hangeul and hearing skills being essential to correctly identifying that grammar within that flow. Sometime before you are done with all the lessons there, you will probably realize that you need real textbooks. I'm not incredibly knowledgeable on which ones are best but I have been using...
Elementary Korean with workbook. I picked this out myself not knowing anything.
Korean though English which was picked out by the teacher of a Korean class I attended.
Roadmap to Korean which is a funny and helpful guide of "the things they should teach us" from a native English speaker.
Using Korean: A Guide to Contemporary Korean which I can tell will be amazingly helpful, but is an intermediate book, so I am only just starting to be able to utilize it.
The Sounds of Korean by the same author is a very helpful guide to pronunciation. I didn't find it too useful, but I have been told by everyone that I am especially good (perhaps because I am a singer and used to picking up on subtle details of sound) so maybe I just didn't need it while you may have more trouble in this area.
Of course, nothing beats the value of the real thing.
Books only get you so far. You have got to get some Korean friends. Immersion seems the best for increasing vocabulary, which is currently my main struggle. I don't have much advice for that except to keep at it. Work hard, force yourself into more of a Korean life. Learning a new language, especially one so foreign, is no small task. To truly pull it off you will either have to put in many hours or simply replace English with it as your primary form of communication. Language is an art of communication, so if you don't use it to communicate you will not successfully learn it.
If you can't find any Koreans who live near you to befriend, get on this website and find a Korean:
http://www.sharedtalk.com/
Actually, I would recommend that anyway because it is unlikely that you'll find a friend who always has time for you when you need to practice. Also, once you learn how to read Korean, just keep reading. It doesn't matter if you know what you're reading, just keep doing it. You'll get a lot faster, which will be extremely useful for picking up new words later on. You'll also subconsciously be detecting patterns of grammar and common words will become familiar before you learn their definitions, just like with the hearing skills. So find a source and read, read, read.
While you're at it, learn about the country:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Korea
As you get interested in different aspects, just go ahead and research, get lost in it for a while.
Some additional helpful recommendations from a dude:
http://bonewso.net/hangul.htm
I already mentioned a few of them but there is some other good stuff there.
Above all, keep in mind the scale of this undertaking.
Most Koreans I have spoken to said that after they came to America, it took 5 years for English to really "click" and yet they even had a head start by learning some English all through school. Really, this is almost always the answer I get, 5 years. They still prepared in Korea, they studied English in college with the intent of coming here, but even fully immersed it was an everyday struggle for 5 years before it felt natural just to hold a conversation with one person.
So, don't expect any different for yourself. When you feel that you aren't doing very well, take a look at that time frame again. These days I often feel discouraged, and I feel like I'm not studying enough, but the Koreans I know all tell me that I am picking it up very quickly. I stop and consider, well, I can read it, I know some basic grammar, I can grasp general concepts being discussed... I guess that is pretty good for where I am at. It is okay if I'm not really conversational yet, these things take time.
Personally, I have accepted it as a life long commitment. I plan to life and hold a career there, and it may not be that large of a thing for you, but if you want to add a new language to your life there will always be something more to learn. Thus, I think it is good to think of it in terms of a lifelong process. Think of it like you think about love. You have gained some ability and understanding but you can also get better at loving those around you. Applying personal determination to do better can help a lot, but some parts of it can only come with experience over many years.
One more example I just remembered is people like Nicole from Kara and Tiffany from SNSD. Nicole had a show on Mnet where she decides to go to college and they follow her in this pursuit. Through the episodes she continually confuses things that people say with similar-sounding things. You can also see this on Heroes, but they don't focus on it as much. Knowing how long she has been there, it is encouraging to see that even someone working there can have trouble, and also to see her well accepted by others despite it. The show is available through the Karaholic forums.
Hopefully this can be a good and helpful post to reference whenever the question comes up again.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I still how wonder how he turned it into coffee like that. I've looked around the internet for how it is done and I can't find it. Freakin crazy, man.Fafnir said:
Edit: I also somehow forgot how pretty Yoona is OMGGGGG!! Can't blame them for flirting with her like that.
How long have you been at it Dice? I feel your description of where you're at matches mine. And I also feel somewhat like I've leveled out and need to push it further. For me the worst part is vocabulary. It's so boring just repeating words endlessly and I'm not good at sticking with a program. Pronounciation isn't a big worry for me, but then I'm Norwegian and our sounds actually work a bit better with Korean.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
I learned hangeul from August through December last year. That sounds like a long time for the task but I mean I really learned it, even the way the sounds slightly change depending on context to make the language more flowing. That is a longer process than just learning the individual sounds of the alphabet. I started really studying grammar and whatnot at the beginning of the year.Peru said:
But yeah, developing a vocabulary suuuucks. My main problem with it is not knowing when I have truly learned a word. Like say I learn 25 words. Within half an hour of practice I can test myself and think I have them down 100%. Check again after a few hours and I missed 2 but for the most part I have them down. Check again a few days later and I only remember 5 of them.
How do you know that a word is truly set in your memory? How often should you introduce new words and how long should you keep drilling ones you have learned to make sure they stick? It's such an irritating process that I feel would go a lot more smoothly if I simply lived in Korea to be surrounded by it everywhere.
I also have another theory. Often when words are set up for vocabulary expansion they are either random or separated by theme, but that isn't how we learn as children. When you are a kid you don't simply memorize a list of every vehicle, but you learn that a car is a vehicle that you drive on the road, so words are learned more by context than by category.
I have often wondered if I would be making better progress if I learned Korean in this way. Maybe I would not only learn 25 words more easily because I give them a context to remember them by, but perhaps along the way I would accidentally pick up words related to their context in real life as well as grammatical structures related to their function. Perhaps then, when I go to learn those other words, it would happen more quickly because I have already been exposed to them.
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any program that teaches in this manner. I know English books for children tend to work according to this format, so maybe Korean children's books would follow the same pattern. I haven't looked into it yet, but maybe it would be a good direction to take up now after having learned the very basics. If you can't be immersed, it may be beneficial to simply have everyday life explained to you all over again in the context of this new language.
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