So, MGS3 demo is out...

SolidSnakex said:
That'd be a pretty big project, basically on the same scale as the ones they're doing now. If Snake died in that mission, especially after beating The Boss the entire MG universe would be completely altered. If he died after beating her there'd be no Boss so essentially no one to get Zanzibar going. There'd be no clones potentially considering Snake hadn't proven himself.
Then would you play as Meryl in Shadow Moses? Of course, Liquid wouldn't be there, but since Shalasaska "Revolver" Ocelot was behind it, he would still be there...
 
Milhouse31 said:
i hate the "if you don't do shit for 20 secondes, you are back to the menu" feature. :p

I was lying in the gras waiting for the guard to pass by. ---> back to the menu. :(
You have to use the R1 button (any other botton or the left analog stick will work) from time to time when you are hiding yourself.
 
***May contain minor spoilers***


I just read the entire thread and was "frothing" (this word never gets old) for some discussion on the actual story (because... I am a MGS storyline slut).

The Time Paradox is something I bet Kojima will play on. There will come times in the game that Snake must make a decision... but you "know" what the decision will be. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out considering that Kojima will try to lure you in one direction... and then take you on a totally different path that makes everything work (and when I say everything... I mean everything. How will the Patriots FIT into this story... but also... make enough sense that we can see the Patriots in MGS1 and MGS2... perhaps even in the original Metal Gears <---doubtful)

I remember when we frist discovered that we were playing BB how interesting we would find it to see how BB came to become... well... a heel. He is obviously the protagonist at the BEGINNING of this ordeal... but how will it come to pass that he becomes the major ANTAGONIST of the entire series (and I don't think it will be as obvious as we'd like to think it to be)? Playing as a bad guy for a part of the game is an interesting concept and is indeed new... that is... if Kojima ALLOWS us to play as him.

Just a quick example for those that have seen the TGS trailer (what I am talking about when you "know" what is going to happen). There is a part in the trailer where The Boss is going for Snake's *left* eye. ...make your assumptions now.

I'm also interested as to why (Sokolov? I'm really foreign on the names... I'm trying to stay away from it... but being overseas has really made my interest grow considering I won't buy this game the day it comes out... never mind the fact that I won't be playing it until Christmas)... why he uses the phrase: "It's not over yet, Snake."

Kojima not only recycles themes in his MGS franchise... but also... missions (see: MGS2)

My two cents. Enough about ripping and burning!
 
evil ways said:
I think it's similar to boxing, where a fighter wins a championship but leaves or retires instantly and the boxing commision no longer acknowledges him being the reigning champion.

He's come back now though. The reason I brought this up because i'm wondering if Kojima could potentially be setting it up so that both sides could be right. The side the believe this is Boss, and the side that believes this is Solid Snake. They're technically one in the same now. I just don't know if he'd attempt to pull something like that off.

"Then would you play as Meryl in Shadow Moses? Of course, Liquid wouldn't be there, but since Shalasaska "Revolver" Ocelot was behind it, he would still be there..."

Revolver actually joined Outer Heaven with Big Boss before Solid destroyed it. So if he'd been killed back in the 60's, none of that would've happened. The entire plot would've been completely altered if that'd happened. The Zanzibar and Outer Heaven things would've been very different. Big Boss set that stuff up, especially the Outer Heaven stuff. I'd like to see what it'd look like if they did this where Big Boss did die during that war and then we get to see exactly how the events unfolded after that. The whole way it'd turn out has alot to do with whether they'd place it before he kills Boss or after. Because if it's before, we already know what kind of psycho she is so they'd taken it to the US alot harder and alot sooner than Big Boss started taking it to them.
 
Maggo007 said:
I was lying in the gras waiting for the guard to pass by. ---> back to the menu. :(
You have to use the R1 button (any other botton or the left analog stick will work) from time to time when you are hiding yourself.

Same thing happened to me last night, I was laying in the grass just before the bridge, and there the guards were on alert, one was walking right infront of me so I had to stay completely motionless, I thought if I kept pushing the right analog stick in different direction that would be enough to prevent the demo from restarting, but apparently I was wrong... I was so pissed! :(
 
It's a damn shame about the time limit...

That really keeps it from being as addictive as the MGS2 demo was. You always have to rush...
 
I was hidden behind some shelf in the factory ruins, moving the right stick to observe the surroundings, then BAM, back to the menu. I was so pissed, as that was the first time I made it to that location and have died there twice already. Aside from that stupid timeout, the demo is gold. Not too long, just enough to make you crave for more. Locations are very big, the factory location is laid out and populated so perfectly. I had two great firefights there, killed bunch of them, but managed to escape and hide after all is said and done (hide behind that shelf, that is, only to have the demo timeout... &*$#^$#)



*mild spoilers*


Btw, in the factory ruins, you can crawl into the holes and move below the structrue, thus avoiding guards completely. You can also climb up the building on the northwest (there are ladders on it's east wall) and snipe one guard on the far other side of the complex.
 
What do you have to do in order to avoid the timeout? Seems that the right stick isn't enough...
 
Seems like everything *except* the right stick is registered towards the resetting the timeout timer. The worst thing is, I just keep forgetting about it. I concentrate on whatever I'm trying to do, and the next moment - back into the menu. Whose idiotic decision was to add this, I don't know. I know that some OPM demos don't have this timeout though, but most do. I would love to remove it, but no idea how to even beggin doing that... Funny thing is, I thought that booting into the demo directly would solve this problem, but it only makes it worse (BO3 demo quits after 20 seconds no matter if you press the buttons anymore, MGS3 demo won't even start to load properly before it kicks back to the OPM menu)

Some more comments about the demo itself. Enemies think and react in a quite a different ways from MGS2. They patrol the routes, like usual, but now they move their heads left and right along the way, and are able to spot you from a far distance. Also, when caught in a firefight with you, they sometimes duck and run away for cover, where they can have a better aim at you (I LOVE blasting them with the shotgun in the ass when they do that :)))) - it sends them flying off forward, and sometimes the guy being hit flies into another guy and knocks him down) Also, walking over the bridge and blasting everything in your way is just priceless (they often fall down into the water)
 
- I love how you can now run and shoot without having to hold down an extra button.

- I don't like how the game suddenly changes camera angles.

- It seems now easier to accidentaly stick your back to walls and other objects.

- The loading is horrendous.

- I don't like you're forced to go into 1st person perspective when crawling in the grass.

- The tranquilizer makes things too easy. I hope it's more difficult in the final game.



And Marconelly, you must really suck ass if you're finding the demo difficult. :D
 
Have I really said I thought it was difficult? I did die several times, but that was mostly because I either didn't really know where to run to the exit, or I was just screwing around with guards too much.

- I love how you can now run and shoot without having to hold down an extra button.
Pressing L1 while holding the gun, now allows you to strafe. That's another new move, and it works great. Best addition to the control system, after the change in the duck/crawl control, IMO.

- The loading is horrendous.
Not by any stretch, if you use the HDloader, heh...

- I don't like you're forced to go into 1st person perspective when crawling in the grass.
Me neither. They should have made it so that you can switch back and forth the FP view by pressing in the right stick or pressing R1, or something. Not a nig deal, and it's sometimes useful, but sometimes isn't, so I don't like it.
 
Marconelly said:
Me neither. They should have made it so that you can switch back and forth the FP view by pressing in the right stick or pressing R1, or something. Not a nig deal, and it's sometimes useful, but sometimes isn't, so I don't like it.
This add some realistic view in a non-realistic viewed game. In real life, when you are lying in the grass, you can't see around you. That's why you don't see what's behind or on the sides of Snake; even thought that in real life, when you are standing up, you can't see what's coming out behind you!
 
Marconelly said:
OPM demo discs? I've never seen them used in store kiosks.

They do around here, I know that much...

Not all the time, of course, but you'll see them in there from time to time.
 
Now watch this!!!

You can kill SOKOLOV in this demo! Here's what some guy at www.metalgearsolid.org (I can't pimp that site enough - go visit it - it's frickin' awesome) found this out:

First off, to kill Sokolov, go to the north-east side of Rassvet. Shoot the glass on the northernmost window of the building, which will shatter it and expose the inside of the cell. Now, throw a grenade inside. After the explosion, you should hear Sokolov scream. Then, the game is over. The screen reads "SOKOLOV IS DEAD."

Apparently, Major gives you an interesting comment if you do that...

This add some realistic view in a non-realistic viewed game. In real life, when you are lying in the grass, you can't see around you. That's why you don't see what's behind or on the sides of Snake; even thought that in real life, when you are standing up, you can't see what's coming out behind you!
Well, I know, that's what I thought myself. What I do mostly, is that I quickly crouch, see where I am, than lie back on the ground.
 
Re: framerate

I'm guessing they're shooting for a solid 30 as well. It doesn't really hamper gameplay all that much and it's still very fun.

Has there been any impressions of the TGS demo? I noticed in some vids that they ran around in the same areas as the E3 demo (though I couldn't tell if there were any noticeable slowdown), but I did see the gator hat though.
 
dark10x said:
Ha ha, surely you've learned something from the attempts at using Konami's engine on GC and XBOX...

MGS2 looked and ran much worse on XBOX and Twin Snakes ran even worse than that. The engine doesn't work well on other platforms. It just isn't made for it. You'd end up with a worse framerate and reduced graphical detail. I mean, SK even claimed to have rewritten large portions of the engine...yet that didn't save it from running like ass and losing tons of effects from MGS2.

Now, while the MGS2 PC port was nothing special, perhaps a PC port of MGS3 could provide us with 60?

Heh, yeah, I learned that if I want a Metal Gear done right, then it needs to be done by Team Kojima. It also needs to be built from the ground up for GCN or Xbox.

They have to work so much magic to get stellar results on PS2, that the code is completely un-port-able to another system. They could start from the beginning with multiplatform in mind, but then the game would most likely end up less impressive on all 3 systems then it is right now on a single system, and I wouldn't want that. Ideally, I'd like to have MGS3 available on all systems and optimized for each. Unfortunately, the current development situation makes that unrealistic, so I'm not holding my breath. Metal Gear on PS3 should be beautiful though....

I'm sure Twin Snakes could have been locked at 60 fps. Either in its present graphic state or with the addition of the various post processing effects that that were never added. It was just taking to much time and resources, so they pushed a basically finished, albeit unpolished product out the door and moved on. It's disappointing, because another 3 months or so in development could have produced a masterpiece. MGS2 on Xbox was just a money hat cash in. They didn't put the effort and passion into the project that the original PS2 product saw, and it showed. Who could really blame them, they didn't want to make an Xbox port in the first place.
 
The framerate can go REALLY low during heavy gun fights with several guards, the game moves in slow-mo :( Hope it's ironed out in the final game, after seeing that today, I'm lowering my expectations considerably, I'll be happy if they manage to make it 30fps at ALL times.
 
Well, MGS2 wasn't solid 60fps during gunfights either. While I hope Kojima's team will address this, I don't think it's a top priority given the game is not about gunfights in the first place.
 
TTP said:
Well, MGS2 wasn't solid 60fps during gunfights either. While I hope Kojima's team will address this, I don't think it's a top priority given the game is not about gunfights in the first place.

You don't have to participate in a gunfight for the framerate to come to a crawl... If you get detected and reinforcements come in, then it's time to run away or find a hiding place in slow-motion... Now are you going to say "the game is not about being detected and running away either"?
 
Final boxart

280813b.jpg


Holy shit.
 
Wario64 said:
Final boxart

280813b.jpg


Holy shit.


...

Is this for real? I need a bigger image before I decide if it's good or bad, could go either way for me honestly, image too small to tell. Looks a bit "eXtreme" though, I'd have preferred a more classy/minimalist style boxart.
 
I prefer the profile head shot of Big Boss with a cigar boxart from the TGS to this new one. Like adelgary, I prefer the minimalist approach, especially for these Metal Gear boxes.


Though this new one is a huge step forward compared to that crappy in game graphics one.
 
Quadrophenic said:
I prefer the profile head shot of Big Boss with a cigar boxart from the TGS to this new one. Like adelgary, I prefer the minimalist approach, especially for these Metal Gear boxes.
I'd agree, but it was so similar to the MGS2 box. Not the least bit distinct.
 
adelgary said:
You don't have to participate in a gunfight for the framerate to come to a crawl... If you get detected and reinforcements come in, then it's time to run away or find a hiding place in slow-motion... Now are you going to say "the game is not about being detected and running away either"?

No. What I'm saying is that I'm afraid that Kojima's team wont care about that too much 'cos the game mechanics are not based around those situations. It's not my intention to justify this, just pointing out why I believe things wont get better in the final code.

I should have said "While I hope Kojima's team will address this, I don't think it's a top priority for them"
 
That's what I was wondering too. Hmm... so the 'download camos on the HDD' thing maybe there after all.
 
Downloading camos will be most likely to a memory card. Those camos won't be very big files, that's for sure.

The framerate can go REALLY low during heavy gun fights with several guards, the game moves in slow-mo :( Hope it's ironed out in the final game, after seeing that today, I'm lowering my expectations considerably, I'll be happy if they manage to make it 30fps at ALL times.
Heh, true. Once I was firing with shotgun at the guards around me at that runed place, and I shot at some of those explosive containers by an accident. It exploded, and I caught fire. So while I was running around that explosion set on fire myself (which looks *awesome*, btw) and guards running and shooting at me, the game got pretty slow. After all the fires and explosions got away, including the fire on me, the game got back to the normal framerate.

New boxart looks pretty damn good, btw. Different from MGS2 and MGS, and very good in it's own right.
 
Called WaldenBooks earlier today, and they said they have it. They're holding it for me to pick up tommorrow. Can't wait to try it out.



What else are on the demo again?
 
TTP said:
Well, MGS2 wasn't solid 60fps during gunfights either. While I hope Kojima's team will address this, I don't think it's a top priority given the game is not about gunfights in the first place.

It depends...

It usually was solid during gunfights...but not during all of them.
 
Now watch this!!!

You can kill SOKOLOV in this demo! Here's what some guy at www.metalgearsolid.org (I can't pimp that site enough - go visit it - it's frickin' awesome) found this out:

This was mentioned in the OPM article on the Snake Eater demo under 10 things to try. You hear a "messy" explosion and sokolov scream. Then it says something like, "Snake you can't change the future! You'll create a time paradox!" Very interesting.

This demo's the best $8.99 I ever spent.
 
picked it up today. MGS3 demo has some great eyecandy. its kinda disappointing that they stuck with the the old overhead perspective from MGS1/2. You can sort of "tweak" the view by pressing up on the 2nd analog, but still its kind of hard to see enough of your surroundings (mostly seeing wtf is ahead of you) with all the grass and tress and whatnot all over the place. I just skipped through it real quick though, i'll have to give it another, more in-depth play through tomorrow.

a quick question: When you sink into the quicksand and your body gets covered in mud, does that effect your camoflouge ability? i couldn't really tell for sure.


rest of the demo disc:

NeoContra-demo kinda sucked.

Crash Twinsanity-the gfx are ancient looking, but the gameplay is still there i guess. Made me want to bust out Crash 1 and 2 on the psOne.

Area51-suprisingly good graphics. Very nice looking. Unfortunatly, the control was a bit too sluggish for me. I don't know, its just really hard for me to get into FPS on the ps2 for some reason (probably the dualshock2).

there is also Ghost in the Shell and Ratchet adn Clank 3 demos, but i haven't tried either yet.
 
i dont know if this was already posted, since i can't be arsed to read through all the pages, but i got this info from the OPM mag:

Note, unfortunately, that the demo times out pretty easily(like many other demos on the disc). It won't time out , though, if you die and the screen says, "snake is dead/time paradox" and shows an option to continue or quit. So, if you want to take a break during the demo and not lose your spot, die on purpose. When you continue, you start off in the same condition you entered the area in.
 
Note, unfortunately, that the demo times out pretty easily(like many other demos on the disc). It won't time out , though, if you die and the screen says, "snake is dead/time paradox" and shows an option to continue or quit. So, if you want to take a break during the demo and not lose your spot, die on purpose. When you continue, you start off in the same condition you entered the area in.

take a break...the demo take like 5 minutes to go through :P
 
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