So, what's the best first-party PS5 game at the moment?

What is the best first-party PS5 game at the moment?

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Clear said:
Yeah I am serious. A 12 month overlap on projects on 5 year cycles is not consequential as the overwhelming majority of the work has to be done prior to the new hardware launch. You aren't refactoring tech post-Alpha, you are tuning and debugging so the distinction is irrelevant.

Try again idiot.
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A PS4 game that's released on the PS4 can never be crossgen.
 
Topher said:
Not true. That was shit Shrierer said in his ND hit piece and it was 70% of one group who worked on the game. A whopping 14 people.

Ever since, people have been spreading this lie that 70% left Naughty Dog.
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Its extremely well known within industry circles what the attrition rate is like at ND. Most people get one shipped title to stick on the resume then look to move on. The pressure is extreme and frankly most people just won't put up with it long-term, so sure they stick around for an extra year or two while the successor project ramps up and they get their shipping bonuses.

You make your bones and move on because senior positions are rare, and not necessarily back-filled internally. Its great being on top of the mountain but living and thriving in that thin air is something that only a select few ever manage - and they tend to be exceptionally well recompensed.

As to the cross-gen thing: Its a false distinction. A game is a game because there's no minimum "bar" for qualification of what is a next gen game beyond what SKU's its available on. Its just marketing. I mean Horizon: Forbidden West is PS4/PS5 with feature and content parity, so is that a "PS4 game" prior to the Burning Shores expansion adding PS5 only features?

Some people are just going to tie themselves into knots in order to make the point they want to make, and frankly I'm tired of dealing with bullshit semantic argumentation. It just seems like they cannot get their head around how the massive timescales required these days make tying a certain release to a console generation essentially meaningless.
 
Clear said:
Its extremely well known within industry circles what the attrition rate is like at ND. Most people get one shipped title to stick on the resume then look to move on. The pressure is extreme and frankly most people just won't put up with it long-term, so sure they stick around for an extra year or two while the successor project ramps up and they get their shipping bonuses.

You make your bones and move on because senior positions are rare, and not necessarily back-filled internally. Its great being on top of the mountain but living and thriving in that thin air is something that only a select few ever manage - and they tend to be exceptionally well recompensed.

As to the cross-gen thing: Its a false distinction. A game is a game because there's no minimum "bar" for qualification of what is a next gen game beyond what SKU's its available on. Its just marketing. I mean Horizon: Forbidden West is PS4/PS5 with feature and content parity, so is that a "PS4 game" prior to the Burning Shores expansion adding PS5 only features?

Some people are just going to tie themselves into knots in order to make the point they want to make, and frankly I'm tired of dealing with bullshit semantic argumentation. It just seems like they cannot get their head around how the massive timescales required these days make tying a certain release to a console generation essentially meaningless.
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You can speculate all you want my man. Just saying that 70% number is bullshit. I didn't say anything about cross gen
 
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Death Stranding 2,

Then Astrobot, Returnal, Helldivers 2, Horizon: Forbidden West, GOW: Ragnarok, GT7, Spider-Man 2 and Spider-Man: MM.

I just don't see how anyone can bitch about Sony FP not delivering the goods this gen. Yes, some of these games have flaws, but they're easily overlooked and don't bring down the entire overall gameplay experience.
 
Everyone is gonna say Astrobot and i enjoyed it but it wasnt that big a deal. Fun in the moment and move on.
In fact i realized ive played/beaten all but three games on this list.

My standouts being Gran Turismo 7/Death Stranding 2
 
Topher said:
You can speculate all you want my man. Just saying that 70% number is bullshit. I didn't say anything about cross gen
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Its not speculation, honestly.

So while I can happily accept you disputing the number, I'm not backing down an inch on the larger issue that after pretty much any ND title ships, there is very significant attrition across all departments for the reasons I outlined.

It is what it is. Just because most devs are pretty much invisible to the audience, it doesn't mean their contributions aren't important and their presence or absence inconsequential.

And yeah, the cross-gen point wasn't at you, but its pretty relevant to the overall discussion in this thread and I really can't be bothered to rebut every post individually when I'm working and posting this stuff on the side!
 
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I'd say my top 5 is:
  1. Astro Bot
  2. God of War Ragnarok
  3. Helldivers 2
  4. Stellar Blade
  5. Returnal
Mattyp said:
Unless the studio is OWNED by Sony, I don't consider it first party personally. I do understand funding the game, but not owning the studio and calling it first party? That's a nah from me.
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First party game means "game published by the platform holder of that platform", it isn't an opinion.

Regarding AAA games, the lead development studio only adds around the 10% of the people who works in a game and the rest is staff from the publisher like internal or -in a big percentage external- support teams hired and managed by the publiser, marketing & PR teams, etc.

In case of the Demon's Souls remake, almost 1400 people worked on it. It was managed by Japan Studio's XDEV team (before they got their own office), who hired Bluepoint to make the heavylifting of the remake codeveloping it with Japan Studio staff in addition with a ton of support teams, some of then the usual SIE's WWS (a.k.a. PS Studios) internal support teams, orther ones external companies doing outsourcing stuff in many areas.
 
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Gt7 for me.

Astro bot was really good and I enjoyed that - my missus completed that as well.

Gowr and spiderman 2 were.....ok but disappointing for me.

Ratchet was good and I'd play again but nothing amazing.
 
Clear said:
Its not speculation, honestly.

So while I can happily accept you disputing the number, I'm not backing down an inch on the larger issue that after pretty much any ND title ships, there is very significant attrition across all departments for the reasons I outlined.

It is what it is. Just because most devs are pretty much invisible to the audience, it doesn't mean their contributions aren't important and their presence or absence inconsequential.
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None of this is unique to Naughty Dog from what I understand. <<<also speculation
 
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Mattyp said:
'Produced' in what way? Sony doesn't own the IPs, they don't own the Studios, it's always timed exclusives in the end.
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IP or studio ownership has nothing to do on the production matter, SIE produced Stellar Blade via XDev Japan and a specific production staff (Edward Saito, Kazuma Kizuka, JunHo Lee). But SIE's overall contributions as a publisher (publishing, localization, QA, IT, etc,) are also quite significant, to the point of making up for around 64% of the game's overall credits:
www.mobygames.com

Stellar Blade credits (PlayStation 5, 2024) - MobyGames

The official game credits for Stellar Blade released on PlayStation 5 in 2024. The credits include 1,151 people.
www.mobygames.com www.mobygames.com
You can also compare this to a simple timed exclusive like Final Fantasy VII Rebirth, where SIE people made up for a whooping 2% of the title's credits overall:
www.mobygames.com

Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth credits (PlayStation 5, 2024) - MobyGames

The official game credits for Final Fantasy VII: Rebirth released on PlayStation 5 in 2024. The credits include 3,784 people.
www.mobygames.com www.mobygames.com
Mattyp said:
It's in no way different than Stalker because at most they fund it.

I think it's a clear definition of something that's actually created by Sonys in house studios than not.
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You're very confused on how this actually works, at all.
Microsoft did not fund Stalker 2, they only gave them some thousands of dollars via their partners relation staff for timed exclusivity. What GSC Game World did with that money is a completely different matter, and you should already know that Microsoft has a specific team for these ""second-party"" projects with Xbox Game Studios Publishing, which was NOT involved on Stalker 2.
And as opposed to SIE with Stellar Blade, barely any people of Microsoft is credited on Stalker 2:
 
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Clear said:
That's highly speculative.

The reason it was even considered is that when TLOU2 came out in June '20 it wasn't close to being finished in its original form and they were still talking about it being an add-on or DLC for quite some afterwards.

Then they pivoted towards blowing it out into a bigger, more cinematic multiplayer before it was cancelled in December '23. Basically they spent less time on it post pivot, than before. Maybe a couple of years, and like I said, if it was purely a logistical decision on ND's part not to proceed then they (Sony) should have handed it off to another team.

Evidently it wasn't close to being releasable in any form, which is pretty bad considering it was originally planned to be part of TLOU2 and therefore its fair to assume that they had something playable and at least partially mechanically complete. From this I conclude that its issues pre-date the GAAS push and it really should be treated separately.

As usual the problem for me is that people who have never worked in the industry assuming that effort/headcount is uniform across the cycle, when in actuality a project in turnaround tends to drop to a skeleton crew while the new direction is decided. Hence the actual impact across the studio can be actually far less than it'd seem based on time spent as a single metric.

ND have actually put out a fair amount of work since 2020, so pretending that the whole studio was tied down with Factions 2 to the exclusion of progress on anything else is unsupportable.
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Maybe, but I doubt this came out of nowhere. Another reason why I think it was a Jim Ryan push, because Factions was one of the planned Gaas games according to Jason Schreier, ND apparently cancelled it because Bungie supposedly said it wouldn't have staying power. I believe what Schreier says, especially regarding Naughty Dog stuff. Also it isn't like this wasn't planned like two years ahead before officially revealed by Jim Ryan, so....
 
The poll results are proof that most PS5 exclusives are just hype. Once they are released and FOMO wears off, they are not even worth a second look.
 
I put Returnal, with Astrobot being my 2nd and Ratchet being my 3rd. Other than that, what a horribly disappointing line up the PS5 has produced. Along with the PS4, easily the worst Playstation generation for exclusive output. Fuck your race for games as a service, stick to what you know best you fucking clowns.
 
yurinka said:
First party means "published by the platform holder", it isn't an opinion.
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Opinion to who? First party is studio owned, IP owned, developed by Sony. This was always the definition a decade ago. Has that changed since Sony in house hasn't delivered more than 2 games for PS5?

Just because they publish the title is very similar to when there's 50 producers slapping themselves on a Hollywood movie while having nothing to do with its actual production.

But we'll both see this differently so it is what it is.
 
Astrobot is ok, Returnal too... But all of the others are clearly not for me, average at best. Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, Metal Gear, and all the best games, being multiplatform... A PS5 is not really necessary this gen.
 
Astro Bot is definitely a first party high point for the gen, but I honestly feel like first party output is getting outpaced by everyone else. It's kind of sad. It'll be even more depressing if MGS3 Delta ends up better than Ghost of Yotei, even though I'm excited for Delta. Sony first party is in a fuckin' wheelchair this gen.
 
Mattyp said:
Opinion to who? First party is studio owned, IP owned, developed by Sony. This was always the definition a decade ago. Has that changed since Sony in house hasn't delivered more than 2 games for PS5?
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No, the definition since forever always has been for all platforms that first party games means games published by the platform holder of that platform, even when the lead dev team isn't owned by them or when they don't own the IP. And 3rd party games are those not published by that platform's owner.

As an example, Kirby always has been first party since the Game Boy and NES, even if the Kirby games are made by HAL Laboratory, who isn't owned by Nintendo.

Or in case of Sega, in the Master System days they had first party games like Wonder Boy, published by Sega by developed by Escape, later known as Westone or Westone Bit.

Same goes with IPs they don't own, as Sony says, MLB The Show, Death Stranding 2 and Marvel's Spider-Man are first party games. In case of Sega they had first party games like Rambo, Rocky or Moonwalker. Or in case of Nintendo, they had first party games like Tetris, Bayonetta 2 & 3 or the SNES version of Sim City.
 
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Mine would be Returnal.

Helldivers II is a fantastic game as well. I'll admit I haven't played many of the others due to lack of interest and/or time. Astro Bot is on my wishlist for sure though.
 
PuppetMaster said:
Returnal

It's the only feeling even close to the feels I got the first time I beat Demon's Souls or Dark Souls on PS3. You start out feeling the is game is just impossible and too punishing. But if you put the time in, your eyes begin to open. You start recognizing weaknesses in opponents. And essential skills become muscle memory. And by the time you beat it, mobs and bosses that seemed completely impossible are now your bitch.
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Fess said:
I'm going with Returnal.
But only when using some sort of save cheat, like uploading your paused cycle to the cloud as a single save spot. I don't think the payoff after a failed cycle is enough, leads to too much frustration and grinding. But with just one save spot it goes from a generous 7/10 to a 10/10 for me. It's the closest to a 3rd person Metroid I've ever experienced. On PC you can even mod in all Samus suit variants.
So so so good. Can't wait for Saros!
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My 2nd platinum ever, I got it one month before they introduced the suspended cycle, I had to leave the system on Rest Mode a couple of days to finish it, the number of sleepless nights, stress and blasphemy I put into the game are priceless.

I've finished the game plenty of times after that even using a Level 0 gun and no upgrades up until Biome 3 (which is my favourite one).

The Sad part is that I'm unable to really enjoy other games after this, it's like they put coke on it, but I'm feeling it more addictive.
 
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Hugare said:
Ps5 GIF by PlayStation


Returnal is a masterpiece

There's nothing quite like it out there, and you cant say the same about any other PS5 exclusive
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Anne Hathaway Agree GIF by The Hustle Movie
 
Astrobot is definitely the best.. It was such an unexpected surprise too which made it even better. Demon's Souls is probably one of the best remakes and Stellar Blade is amazing but not really first party. I would also vote Returnal but could never get past the first boss so, I have no clue what the rest of the game is like but also a worthy mention.
 
PatientGamer said:
Astrobutt. It's one of the best games of all time imho. What an experience.

Nothing else comes close to it for me.
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If we talk 3D Platformers... Honestly it's a masterpiece, Team Asobi really created some Magic here. It also came out of nowhere (well not really cause Astro's Playroom and Rescue Mission were fantastic, but Wow I still marvel at Astro Bot. I legitimately think it's a better Game than Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario 64, only bested by probably the Galaxy Games and Super Mario Odyssey)
 
kazuyamishima said:
My 2nd platinum ever, I got it one month before they introduced the suspended cycle, I had to leave the system on Rest Mode a couple of days to finish it, the number of sleepless nights, stress and blasphemy I put into the game are priceless.
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I don't understand how you can do it. I don't know a more difficult game.
And it's so brutal to die on a difficult boss before you reach the quick path to, don't remember was it level 3? Feels like you've gained nothing and you know you could die again in 10 seconds after reaching the boss again, and it's a looong way back. And doing a run and not getting the sword feels like such a waste. I don't think it's well made as a roguelike.

But if you get the sword and you have a save file it's Metroid, and then it's awesome. Only thing I really miss is teleportation back to a previous world. I want to be able to upgrade and then go back to difficult areas better prepared, och get gear and go back to unlock old locked paths.

They should patch in a Metroid mode. Static maps, unlimited save rooms, go back and forth between worlds. 👌
 
yurinka said:
No, the definition since forever always has been for all platforms that first party games means games published by the platform holder of that platform, even when the lead dev team isn't owned by them or when they don't own the IP. And 3rd party games are those not published by that platform's owner.

As an example, Kirby always has been first party since the Game Boy and NES, even if the Kirby games are made by HAL Laboratory, who isn't owned by Nintendo.

Or in case of Sega, in the Master System days they had first party games like Wonder Boy, published by Sega by developed by Escape, later known as Westone or Westone Bit.

Same goes with IPs they don't own, as Sony says, MLB The Show, Death Stranding 2 and Marvel's Spider-Man are first party games. In case of Sega they had first party games like Rambo, Rocky or Moonwalker. Or in case of Nintendo, they had first party games like Tetris, Bayonetta 2 & 3 or the SNES version of Sim City.
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I mean except Nintendo owns Kirby, and Sega owns the Wonderboy trademark.

Spider-Man for all course is owned by Sony as well.

Death Standing, HellDivers, Stellar are not owned by Sony in any format at all.

Once DS2 is published on Xbox will it still be a Sony first party PS5 exclusive?
 
Returnal most probably, if we leave personal taste aside, and it's still a very flawed game.

It would be helldivers 2 but i don't consider that a a full first party like a lot of games in that list (but i understand that if you don't include those, you can barely call it a list😄)

Personally, i enjoyed both ragnarock and fw but they were both sacrificed in the crossgen altar and they were inferior sequels overall, not something to praise really.

Speak volume about sony output this gen.
 
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Mattyp said:
Spider-Man for all course is owned by Sony as well.
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Nah, Spider-Man IP is fully owned by Disney outside of movie rights.

Mattyp said:
Once DS2 is published on Xbox will it still be a Sony first party PS5 exclusive?
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You're not going to like this, but if it's published by Xbox Game Studios, it'll be a first party MS title as well as a first party Sony title. But it'll obviously not be an exclusive.

And if DS2 would be published on Switch 2 by Nintendo it'd also be a first party Nintendo title.
Blow Your Mind Wow GIF by Product Hunt
 
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Mattyp said:
I mean except Nintendo owns Kirby, and Sega owns the Wonderboy trademark.
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Sega has the trademark, LAT Corporation has the copyrights, who bought it from the original IP owners, Escape (later known as Westbone Bid).

Meaning, Sega is the one who licenses the Wonder Boy name/logo, while LAT is the one who licenses the characters/story/mechanics/etc., which can be licensed by them for games that don't use the name (like Adventure Island or Monster Boy) without needing Sega.

So to publish games or re-releases that use both the name and the content ('recent' case of Wonder Boy: Asha in Monster World) is needed the license from both Sega and LAT.

But in any case, both Kirby and Wonder Boy were first party even if developed by companies not owned by the platform holder.

Mattyp said:
Spider-Man for all course is owned by Sony as well.
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No, Marvel owns this IP. What Sony bought was the rights to make movies. For the games they got a license to make games for a few years.

In fact, when the first Marvel's Spider-Man game was announced (to be developed by Insomiac, back then still not acquired by Sony), the Marvel guy said he was a fan of Sony's first party games and wanted Spider-Man to get that treatment.

And well, Sony calls it first party game.

Mattyp said:
Death Standing, HellDivers, Stellar are not owned by Sony in any format at all.
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The Helldivers IP is owned by Sony. DS was too until they sold it to Kojima.

And all 3 are first party games according to Sony, even if their lead development studio isn't owned by Sony and if Sony and if Sony doesn't own 2 of these IPs.

Mattyp said:
Once DS2 is published on Xbox will it still be a Sony first party PS5 exclusive?
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The PS version of DS2 is a PlayStation first party game because it's published by the platform holder, Sony. This is why Sony lists it next to Helldivers II, MLB The Show or Spider-Man when they talk about their first party games.

If it ever gets released on Xbox, that version won't be published by its platform holder Microsoft, so will be a 3rd party Xbox game.
 
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Clear said:
... So while I can happily accept you disputing the number, I'm not backing down an inch on the larger issue that after pretty much any ND title ships, there is very significant attrition across all departments for the reasons I outlined....
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For whatever it's worth, Naughty Dog's reputation started to precede them during The Last of Us Part 2's development - in a bad way. They had trouble retaining talent and had to start hiring outside the games industry because there weren't any animators left in LA, or willing to move to LA, that wanted to work there. I believe they've taken steps to try and improve their working conditions after TLOUP2's troubled development saw staff endure nearly two full years of crunch to ship the game. With that said, their next game - Intergalactic - may be facing it's own troubles requiring it's director to double down on the game to get it done. I'm sure we'll hear more about it in the years to come.
 
Fess said:
I don't understand how you can do it. I don't know a more difficult game.
And it's so brutal to die on a difficult boss before you reach the quick path to, don't remember was it level 3? Feels like you've gained nothing and you know you could die again in 10 seconds after reaching the boss again, and it's a looong way back. And doing a run and not getting the sword feels like such a waste. I don't think it's well made as a roguelike.

But if you get the sword and you have a save file it's Metroid, and then it's awesome. Only thing I really miss is teleportation back to a previous world. I want to be able to upgrade and then go back to difficult areas better prepared, och get gear and go back to unlock old locked paths.

They should patch in a Metroid mode. Static maps, unlimited save rooms, go back and forth between worlds. 👌
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Is always recommended to finish every single room available until you move to another Biome.

Artifacts and a weapon with decent traits but especially a nice alt-fire will give anybody better chances.

I think they did the right thing not to be able to comeback to lower Biome's since enemies have more health and are more difficult to kill.

Suspend cycle was a nice addition for people that get frustrated easily.
 
Dafegamer said:
If we talk 3D Platformers... Honestly it's a masterpiece, Team Asobi really created some Magic here. It also came out of nowhere (well not really cause Astro's Playroom and Rescue Mission were fantastic, but Wow I still marvel at Astro Bot. I legitimately think it's a better Game than Super Mario Sunshine and Super Mario 64, only bested by probably the Galaxy Games and Super Mario Odyssey)
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Same, and I loved Mario 64 + Sunshine
 
MH3M3D said:
Also has a PS5 version, dont know why it isnt on the list.
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Cause it is a PS4 remaster so it doesn't count. Neither do cross-gen games, remakes, reimagination of old games, sequels, stand alones, games that are woke or GaaS, and games that released on PC.

So basically Sony didn't release a single game this gen
 
nial said:
... that made a first-party game.
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first-party means a developer that belongs to said company. Koei Tecmo and Shift Up are not first party. They are second party games and now 3rd party games as they are now available on PC and self published by Shift Up and Koei Tecmo on PC. So you have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Mattyp said:
Opinion to who? First party is studio owned, IP owned, developed by Sony. This was always the definition a decade ago. Has that changed since Sony in house hasn't delivered more than 2 games for PS5?

Just because they publish the title is very similar to when there's 50 producers slapping themselves on a Hollywood movie while having nothing to do with its actual production.

But we'll both see this differently so it is what it is.
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You should tell your boss that.


3:56 AM · Jun 6, 2014

There's a difference between first party games and first party studios.
 
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