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So why didn't you like The Dark Knight Rises? Nolan trilogy spoilers of course.
- Thread starter Afrocious
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Zen_Arcade
Banned
I wanted nothing more than for that movie to be good. I drove four hours and sat in a stadium in a winter jacket all day in the dead heat of summer to be part of the scene where Bane blows up the stadium.
Talia was boring and the twist of her controlling Bane totally under minded how cool the only good character in that movie is.
Ghost Ra's was dumb and super hammy.
Catwoman was just there. Such a flat character. She had so little personality.
JGL overall was a shit character. Somehow looked into Bruce's eyes and automatically knew he was Batman because Nolan didn't want to spend any time making a Robin in this universe. He can't beat anyone up without using a gun and met Batman less than five times, but Bruce leaves his mantle to him and runs off. Gotham would go to shit with him in charge and the "Robin" reference felt so forced.
This is a guy who just one movie before scolds people running around in hockey pads and tells them to knock it off because they're not trained for the work he does, then for little to no reason he changes his mind and decides that Batman is a symbol and anyone can be him.
There was a way they could have handled the mantle over and let Bruce have his Hollywood happy ending but they did not pull it off whatsoever. Completely unbelievable that Bruce would ever do that, even within the Batman universe Nolan had crafted.
There was probably more that I'm forgetting. Bane was the only good part in the movie before the twist with Talia. Then it just turns him from an intelligent, intimidating threat to an easily manipulated puppy dog and thrusts the villain focus on a character with as much personality as a block of wood. Ironically, Iron Man 3 came out that same year and pulled the same bullshit with their villain. Built up an intimidating threat for the whole movie and then had a plot twist that turned him into a pawn of a character they gave little to no interesting character development to. It's just bad writing.
Talia was boring and the twist of her controlling Bane totally under minded how cool the only good character in that movie is.
Ghost Ra's was dumb and super hammy.
Catwoman was just there. Such a flat character. She had so little personality.
JGL overall was a shit character. Somehow looked into Bruce's eyes and automatically knew he was Batman because Nolan didn't want to spend any time making a Robin in this universe. He can't beat anyone up without using a gun and met Batman less than five times, but Bruce leaves his mantle to him and runs off. Gotham would go to shit with him in charge and the "Robin" reference felt so forced.
This is a guy who just one movie before scolds people running around in hockey pads and tells them to knock it off because they're not trained for the work he does, then for little to no reason he changes his mind and decides that Batman is a symbol and anyone can be him.
There was a way they could have handled the mantle over and let Bruce have his Hollywood happy ending but they did not pull it off whatsoever. Completely unbelievable that Bruce would ever do that, even within the Batman universe Nolan had crafted.
There was probably more that I'm forgetting. Bane was the only good part in the movie before the twist with Talia. Then it just turns him from an intelligent, intimidating threat to an easily manipulated puppy dog and thrusts the villain focus on a character with as much personality as a block of wood. Ironically, Iron Man 3 came out that same year and pulled the same bullshit with their villain. Built up an intimidating threat for the whole movie and then had a plot twist that turned him into a pawn of a character they gave little to no interesting character development to. It's just bad writing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I completely missed the movie even being in theaters as a kid, only watched TDK and Rises in there. I remember being in ireland at the time friend of mine didn't understand shit bale said as batman.
Alfred and Gordon were pretty great as well.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Heath Ledger and Tom Hardy were the only things I really enjoyed about those movies. I found everything else to be camp, stupid, over done, lamp-shady or similar.
I wanted to like them, but I just could not connect. The way Nolan interrogates the idea of Batman, the idea of fascism, etc etc just felt shallow to me. And Bale, good god, he was just Patrick Bateman-lite. He was on sociopath autopilot the whole time. I felt it was a disingenuous attempt to both "Do Batman serious, yo" and have all the shoutouts, plot contrivances and easter eggs silly characters and whatnot that comics revels in without really being able to synthesize the opposing tones of the two. It came off as neither a deep meditation nor a character study nor an action story. I liked Batman Begins, sort of, for the potential, and liked TDK ,mostly for Ledger and TDK for Hardy.
It's a lot of the same problem I have with Daredevil and the contrived ninja bullshit. "We're doing Daredevil, we gotta have ninjas, right? Should we do it well in our self-serious take on this concept? Nah, let's go full camp! That won't deflate our tone at all! We're geniuses."
TLDR: Too much trying to have your self-serious cake and eat it too. My Joker. My Bane. Not my Batman.
I wanted to like them, but I just could not connect. The way Nolan interrogates the idea of Batman, the idea of fascism, etc etc just felt shallow to me. And Bale, good god, he was just Patrick Bateman-lite. He was on sociopath autopilot the whole time. I felt it was a disingenuous attempt to both "Do Batman serious, yo" and have all the shoutouts, plot contrivances and easter eggs silly characters and whatnot that comics revels in without really being able to synthesize the opposing tones of the two. It came off as neither a deep meditation nor a character study nor an action story. I liked Batman Begins, sort of, for the potential, and liked TDK ,mostly for Ledger and TDK for Hardy.
It's a lot of the same problem I have with Daredevil and the contrived ninja bullshit. "We're doing Daredevil, we gotta have ninjas, right? Should we do it well in our self-serious take on this concept? Nah, let's go full camp! That won't deflate our tone at all! We're geniuses."
TLDR: Too much trying to have your self-serious cake and eat it too. My Joker. My Bane. Not my Batman.
mugurumakensei
Member
I'll say Nolan's cinematography is mostly consistently good. The soundtrack is also good across all three films. Those are the only things that stay consistently good to great.
Gnome Scat
Member
It was a step down from TDR in every way.
blankempathy
Member
I really like the portrayal of batman as a detective in tdk. In tdkr he seems to have regressed and relies on cat woman to find bane allowing himself to be tricked. He gets fooled by Thalia as well. He's just so naive this time around. You'd expect an aging batman to be more on his game when it comes to reading people. I don't hate the Joseph Gordon-Levitt character either but I felt it really took away from what I really wanted to see which was a retired batman back in action and the people of Gotham reacting to it. Apparently the cities most wanted criminal barely warrants a reaction and everyone seems to get over it quickly. Also banes defeat was completely anti climactic.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Spoilers dude.
I lost it at the
giant hole inside the building that didn't even make it in the news.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
The audience I was with loved it, and I walked out of that theater feeling damn good. That feeling wasn't replicated with the next two, and while Begins definitely doesn't resonate like it did, I still consider it the one I could most easily rewatch. (although The Joker is the best thing about any of them)
Batman coming off as weak as shit.
His continued trust in Catwoman for no good reason.
The rushed "mentoring" of John Blake.
Batman's (first) comeback sequence was weak as fuck.
Matthew Modine's character... Like I get his "arc", but it didn't ring at all.
Action was extremely clumsy.
Bruce goes through two whole recoveries in the course of the movie. The first shouldn't have felt nearly as drastic of a build up that it ended up being. It just became redundant.
I don't really dislike Dark Knight Rises, but it's easily the least successful of the three, with the most ambition. It could've been two movies (and I don't mean literally just scissor it in the center) while also fleshing out aspects to make a more satisfying movie. Hell, Barbara Gordon could've been in the movie that way! She's like, what, 8 in The Dark Knight? That would make her the perfect age to be rebellious teen who idolizes the edgy outside-the-law heroes of her city...
As far as what was there, though, it felt like a really clumsy first draft. Alot of clumsy exposition, some weird plotholes, etc.
Honestly, if it were two movies, I would've included Barbara Gordon, but also put in Green Arrow as just another street-level hero who was inspired by Batman over the years. Plus it gives you someone doing cool superhero shit during Batman's downtime.
His continued trust in Catwoman for no good reason.
The rushed "mentoring" of John Blake.
Batman's (first) comeback sequence was weak as fuck.
Matthew Modine's character... Like I get his "arc", but it didn't ring at all.
Action was extremely clumsy.
Bruce goes through two whole recoveries in the course of the movie. The first shouldn't have felt nearly as drastic of a build up that it ended up being. It just became redundant.
I don't really dislike Dark Knight Rises, but it's easily the least successful of the three, with the most ambition. It could've been two movies (and I don't mean literally just scissor it in the center) while also fleshing out aspects to make a more satisfying movie. Hell, Barbara Gordon could've been in the movie that way! She's like, what, 8 in The Dark Knight? That would make her the perfect age to be rebellious teen who idolizes the edgy outside-the-law heroes of her city...
As far as what was there, though, it felt like a really clumsy first draft. Alot of clumsy exposition, some weird plotholes, etc.
Honestly, if it were two movies, I would've included Barbara Gordon, but also put in Green Arrow as just another street-level hero who was inspired by Batman over the years. Plus it gives you someone doing cool superhero shit during Batman's downtime.
Can't forget Aaron Eckhart. Dude doesn't get enough love.
I mean the Nolan films are the most "non-comic" Batman films but Rises' depiction of Batman/Bruce is super questionable to me.
It's more of a Bruce Wayne film than a Batman film and to me, Bruce Wayne was always the "disguise" for that character. Batman is who he really is so the ending doesn't sit right with me.
It's more of a Bruce Wayne film than a Batman film and to me, Bruce Wayne was always the "disguise" for that character. Batman is who he really is so the ending doesn't sit right with me.
Caddywompus
Member
Sean Connery as the voiceover for Bane.
That's all I remember of that forgettable film. Completely took me out of the film. It was so distracting to have that bad impersonation every time Bane was on screen.
This was the first film where I felt knowing too much about the comics may have impacted the enjoyment of the film. I wonder if not knowing the Bane Backbreaking storyline as well as Taila's twist would have redeemed the movie in some way
That's all I remember of that forgettable film. Completely took me out of the film. It was so distracting to have that bad impersonation every time Bane was on screen.
This was the first film where I felt knowing too much about the comics may have impacted the enjoyment of the film. I wonder if not knowing the Bane Backbreaking storyline as well as Taila's twist would have redeemed the movie in some way
brandonh83
Banned
Much like TDK, it's a movie where I feel like so much about it is fucking fantastic, yet severely held back by small issues and some really stupid shit that just kind of culminate and linger every time I watch it.
The Batwing thingie chase at the end was bad. Some of the most piss-poor action directing but Nolan has never did an impressive action sequence. He's gotten close a few times, but compared to Spielberg or Cameron he just doesn't seem to have it. The Bane fight at the end is pretty great and to me should have been the action climax and not the chase. I would not say that if the chase were good.
Marion Cotillard... terrible, not even counting her parody death scene. I like her plenty, but her performance and character were just completely awful and shoehorned.
The forced Catwoman romance, yikes (why that kiss amidst a chase scene, Jesus) and actually showing her and Bruce at the cafe at the end is terrible writing. You'd think Nolan, who tries to be a little psychological here and there, would understand that just simply a satisfied look from Alfred would have told us, or would have at least let us guess that Bruce was alive, and that's all we would have needed to know. Instead it's the most ham-fisted CHEERS MOTHERFUCKER bullshit in the entire trilogy. Just way too on the nose where I felt like it could have actually been something a lot more interesting. This is definitely not a flaw depending on the person though, just how I feel about it. I'm not saying it would have left so much more to the imagination, but the way it happens just kind of ruins it for me. I guess... to me it could have just been more tasteful.
Can't think of every little thing, but those are the highlights for me. I have a love/hate relationship with the trilogy. On one hand, so much of it is so damn good. The first 2/3 of TDK is some of the most remarkable filmmaking in one of these things, but even that falls apart pretty bad after Rachel's death (though it starts to recover a bit toward the end). I mostly love the entirety of Begins. TDKR, issues mentioned above notwithstanding, is mostly a pretty good movie. At least Maggie Gyllenhaal wasn't in it, so there's that. Just a very up and down trilogy for me, with some ridiculously insane highs and some unfortunate lows. Still generally good movies and a fun watch.
The Batwing thingie chase at the end was bad. Some of the most piss-poor action directing but Nolan has never did an impressive action sequence. He's gotten close a few times, but compared to Spielberg or Cameron he just doesn't seem to have it. The Bane fight at the end is pretty great and to me should have been the action climax and not the chase. I would not say that if the chase were good.
Marion Cotillard... terrible, not even counting her parody death scene. I like her plenty, but her performance and character were just completely awful and shoehorned.
The forced Catwoman romance, yikes (why that kiss amidst a chase scene, Jesus) and actually showing her and Bruce at the cafe at the end is terrible writing. You'd think Nolan, who tries to be a little psychological here and there, would understand that just simply a satisfied look from Alfred would have told us, or would have at least let us guess that Bruce was alive, and that's all we would have needed to know. Instead it's the most ham-fisted CHEERS MOTHERFUCKER bullshit in the entire trilogy. Just way too on the nose where I felt like it could have actually been something a lot more interesting. This is definitely not a flaw depending on the person though, just how I feel about it. I'm not saying it would have left so much more to the imagination, but the way it happens just kind of ruins it for me. I guess... to me it could have just been more tasteful.
Can't think of every little thing, but those are the highlights for me. I have a love/hate relationship with the trilogy. On one hand, so much of it is so damn good. The first 2/3 of TDK is some of the most remarkable filmmaking in one of these things, but even that falls apart pretty bad after Rachel's death (though it starts to recover a bit toward the end). I mostly love the entirety of Begins. TDKR, issues mentioned above notwithstanding, is mostly a pretty good movie. At least Maggie Gyllenhaal wasn't in it, so there's that. Just a very up and down trilogy for me, with some ridiculously insane highs and some unfortunate lows. Still generally good movies and a fun watch.
Danis Saur
Member
Compared to the previous two, it felt very weak. It felt like they said "meh, lets do another one... for the fans."
I liked the whole Batman rising part, but the overall plot and its dragging pace was enough to push me away. Its action sequences were ok, but the movie had no feel of importance to what was going on. The things that were at stake, I felt barely anything for.
I liked the whole Batman rising part, but the overall plot and its dragging pace was enough to push me away. Its action sequences were ok, but the movie had no feel of importance to what was going on. The things that were at stake, I felt barely anything for.
crazy monkey
Banned
last movie was garbage. I did not like the first movie either. The only good one is the dark knight. The villan in first and last movie were lame. Joker was the shit.
Ganzlinger
Member
Too many plot holes.
Skellig Gra
Member
The ending just made me want to puke. He should have died and there should be no Robin.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Bad action, too fucking long, too fucking stupid, what a shitty movie.
Merriweather
Member
Given that Bruce Wayne has usually been characterized as being obsessed with fighting crime in Gotham as Batman I found the happy ending where he retires to travel the world with Selena Kyle a bit forced.
The nod between Bruce & Selena and Alfred at the Paris cafe was dopey. I would have found that more satisfying if you saw Alfred's expression change but you never saw Bruce and you were left wondering if his dream of him retiring from Batman to live a normal life had come true.
The nod between Bruce & Selena and Alfred at the Paris cafe was dopey. I would have found that more satisfying if you saw Alfred's expression change but you never saw Bruce and you were left wondering if his dream of him retiring from Batman to live a normal life had come true.
"You should use your full name. I like that name - Robin"
I would have been less offended if Chris Nolan threw a cup of piss at my face.
brandonh83
Banned
If you're an optimist, it could be taken as Alfred seeing Bruce. Bruce is okay.
If you're an asshole, it could be taken as Alfred seeing things in his old age, emotionally distraught after those events, etc.
Either way, the look would have been perfect and how they did it was total shit. Again, it's extra bizarre how it was Nolan's choice, when he's usually jumping at any opportunity for ambiguity.
Maximus.
Member
Poor pacing, didn't like how Batman stopped being Batman, the bomb plot was weak, too many plot holes in general, etc. When I watched it in the theatre, I was blown away, but when I thought about it more days later and rewatched it, there were so many flaws and it just did not live up to the previous movies.
CadetMahoney
Member
I haven't even seen it, the amount of negative reviews and forum opinions swayed me to stay away, much like batman vs superman. I think I made the right choice.
Killing_Joke
Member
I enjoyed it better then TDK and BB at first to be honest. Overall i would say TDK is the best movie and BB is the elite origin comic book movie. But i loved TDKR all the way through. Lack on CG nonsense, Bane was great, score was great, and loved the story.
Acting is so so (Talia dying gif) but i thought the others made up for it.
And for the love of god why is Batman sneaking into Gotham a plothole? It's in every damn thread. They blocked the bridges. That's it. They didn't have men protecting every sewer or every inch of the city. Such a weird thing to complain about.
Acting is so so (Talia dying gif) but i thought the others made up for it.
And for the love of god why is Batman sneaking into Gotham a plothole? It's in every damn thread. They blocked the bridges. That's it. They didn't have men protecting every sewer or every inch of the city. Such a weird thing to complain about.
Kacho
Gold Member
It's been a while but I remember thinking the movie didn't really feel like a Batman movie. It should have been called Batman Begins Again since Nolan Batman had to be lame as fuck and retire between movies. It was more of a Bruce Wayne movie than a Batman one and that annoyed me.
Bane was interesting and he had a handful of really good scenes (airplane) but the way he went out was unsatisfying and anticlimactic. I never got invested in anything that was going on. Catwoman was awful and forgettable. The Robin side thing felt forced and unearned. The ending was stupid.
If I were to sum up the movie as a whole I'd say that it was slow, boring and just not very fun. Also stupid.
Only watched it once and that pretty much says everything. Damn shame.
Bane was interesting and he had a handful of really good scenes (airplane) but the way he went out was unsatisfying and anticlimactic. I never got invested in anything that was going on. Catwoman was awful and forgettable. The Robin side thing felt forced and unearned. The ending was stupid.
If I were to sum up the movie as a whole I'd say that it was slow, boring and just not very fun. Also stupid.
Only watched it once and that pretty much says everything. Damn shame.
But in fairness, they never portrayed him that way here. He was Batman for about a year and a half before he had to quit. Even in Begins, he makes his mission statement that this isn't for himself, but his intent is to show Gotham doesn't have to fear its criminal element. Even by The Dark Knight, he's looking at Harvey Dent as his escape.
Lys Skygge
Member
I thought it was great! But it was obvious Nolan phoned it in. There were a lot of mistakes, cringy moments, and odd plot holes. However, it's better than any Marval/DC film imo. I just really enjoy Nolans style, even at his weakest.
This bugged me from the very first time I saw it. Nolan had already set up what it was going to be.
And when we just saw Alfred seeing and nodding for real with that Batman soundtrack cue, it actually worked. It was powerful.
Then you just get slammed in the face with the obvious, blowing the whole effect. It'd be like if Nolan let the spinning top completely fall at the end of Inception.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Every problem of the last two are magnified to a degree that could no longer be ignored.
Gotham is an island. There are no other ways to enter the city unless he goes by boat or skydives. :lol
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
It gave us some of the memes of all time so I can't be too mad at it. TDK is the best comic book movie of all time so it had a tough act to follow.
BigBossVanzetti
Member
It's a very solid movie with some clunky stuff in there. Ambitious as hell, execution isn't as well pulled off as the first two.
I love that this trilogy stands alone as it's own interpretation.
Bruce climbing out of the pit is the best scene in the trilogy.
Bane is awesome and I quote him daily.
I love that this trilogy stands alone as it's own interpretation.
Bruce climbing out of the pit is the best scene in the trilogy.
Bane is awesome and I quote him daily.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
It's a timeless work of art compared to BvS. If you liked the first two, I'd watch it. It's a massive drop in quality with some insanely lazy writing. But, it's okay. Has some cool moments, even if un-earned. Bane was pretty great.
ghostwritingduck
Member
I was disappointed on first viewing by how dormant Batman had been after Dark Knight. I love the film though, and I'm happy to have a version of Batman with an ending.
Great movie that I still consider better than any other superhero movie that's released, except its own two predecessors.
If I was to change anything about it, it would be to remove Blake from the movie as well as Talia. Blake's screentime would be better served for Gordon and Catwoman, and would fix the minor flaws I see in the movie's story. The last minute Talia twist is also unnecessary. It humanizes Bane, and gives an added dimension to his father/daughter relationship with Talia and Ra's excommunication of him, but we didn't need a human villain. It was Bruce Wayne's story so having some extreme psychopath was enough to serve that purpose.
The ending was great. The only thing Nolan shouldn't have done is show Alfred's prior visit to the cafe when he was telling his story. It was too much of a telegraph, and should've been removed in editing.
If I was to change anything about it, it would be to remove Blake from the movie as well as Talia. Blake's screentime would be better served for Gordon and Catwoman, and would fix the minor flaws I see in the movie's story. The last minute Talia twist is also unnecessary. It humanizes Bane, and gives an added dimension to his father/daughter relationship with Talia and Ra's excommunication of him, but we didn't need a human villain. It was Bruce Wayne's story so having some extreme psychopath was enough to serve that purpose.
The ending was great. The only thing Nolan shouldn't have done is show Alfred's prior visit to the cafe when he was telling his story. It was too much of a telegraph, and should've been removed in editing.
The movie has better reviews than any other in its genre not named The Dark Knight or Spider-Man 2.
triplestation
Member
AT LEAST YOU CAN TALK
This is really my only problem with the trilogy, but they are fine movies.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
I'm not sure how Robin is going to be effective without the super secret ninja training that Bruce had.
Switch Back 9
a lot of my threads involve me fucking up somehow. Perhaps I'm a moron?
It was too long, it was boring, the fighting scenes sucked, the twist sucked, way overwrought try-hard emotional nonsense for what feels like five thousand hours, giant plot holes and a villain that was ok but paled in comparison to Ledger's joker.
Shake Appeal
Member
Batman doesn't retire. Not ever.
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I loved it. Not as much as the first two, but it was still great.
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