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Sonic Generations |OT| What Sonic can learn from Sonic

Didn't think this was worthwhile making a whole new thread for so I figured I'd post it here.

Today's my birthday, so my sister made me a cake.

RzT59.jpg
 
Take that picture off the internet, now, quick, before it's too late!

It's nice your sister did that for you, and it's actually pretty decent effort... but expect, at the very least, "that other cake"'s face shopped on before long.
 

qq more

Member
Sciz said:
Awwwwww yeah.

planetwispactionmasteybuoj.png



Easily the best challenge act in the game.
Wait, is it snowing in that thumbnail? Wooaaahhhhh. I wish Planet Wisp was a snow level overall just to make up for the lack of a snow themed stage :(
 

Zafir

Member
Finally completed it after not touching it for like a week. Decided to S every act since it isn't hard to do, however I'm not bothering going for all the red rings/challenges. Over all really enjoyed it. Though I agree the final boss was just, ergh. At first I didn't even know what I was meant to do in it, since all sonic's friends do is constantly shout "HOMING ATTACK WATCH OUT!!!" or the other attacks equivalents, instead of actually helping.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
qq more said:
Wait, is it snowing in that thumbnail? Wooaaahhhhh. I wish Planet Wisp was a snow level overall just to make up for the lack of a snow themed stage :(
When I played through it, I didn't think it was snowing because
some of it is coming from the ground and going up. I figured it was like Ocarina of Time's Kokiri Forest with spirits or fairies.
It's really pretty though. I loved playing through it.
 
Just finished it. Great game overall. My eyes almost rolled out of my head when Sonic told Sonic that he was going to have a great future and mute Sonic didn't make any sense while nobody else was. Great way of transitioning stages from 3D to 2D and vice versa. Music was great and I love what they did with the first boss (final boss in Sonic 2) theme. The sidequest stuff is hit and miss and rivals were neat. The ending credits were great and I got a sense of pride that it was an homage to people like me who grew up playing Sonic since the very first one on the Genesis.

Now I decide if it's worth my time to 1000/1000 this game or move on. S-ranking all the stages, finishing all the sidequest and those red stars...
 

stuminus3

Member
PC Patch said:
- More accurate timing clock to 60Hz—may fix some issues with fluctuant frame rates.
Freaking awesome, my microstuttering problems are all gone!

Chemical Plant still has those huge random pauses that everyone gets, but I was also getting weird performance everywhere else - FRAPS said 60 but it sure as hell wasn't smooth. Now it is. 60 frames of glorious buttery, silky smoothness per second.

I honestly didn't expect Sega to ever fix it, and it got fixed in a week. That's pretty great. Now, about Chemical Plant...
 

RagnarokX

Member
Dark Schala said:
When I played through it, I didn't think it was snowing because
some of it is coming from the ground and going up. I figured it was like Ocarina of Time's Kokiri Forest with spirits or fairies.
It's really pretty though. I loved playing through it.
It's pollen/spores/etc
 

Sciz

Member
Green Hill

This time:

chemicalplantact1hjdow.png



After Green Hill, I think Chemical Plant is the only other really obvious shoe-in zone in the game. Sonic 2 is still the series' best selling title, and Chemical Plant is its most iconic zone by a wide margin. Emerald Hill wasn't bad, but they were clearly trying to remake Green Hill and EHZ wound up being fairly unmemorable as a result. Being cleansed of even GHZ's minimal amount of difficulty didn't help either. Chemical Plant, though, that's where the game really took off. Starlight Zone had already introduced the idea of a speedy city/industrial level, but Chemical Plant took the idea and ran with it. No other classic zone beats it on sheer camera-busting speed, which makes the sudden aquatic deathtraps in Act 2 all the more memorable when that speed gets turned off.

Level Design

This is more like it.

Where Green Hill struggles to mesh old and new terrain, Chemical Plant strikes the balance between them excellently. Almost any level structure you could name from the original zone is back, from the curving pipes to the dizzying hills to that spot near the beginning where you can jump over a spring. At a couple of points it feels almost too faithful, but by and large it's a level that remixes the old ideas without leaning on them entirely.

One big benefit Chemical Plant has over Green Hill is that it isn't an opening stage, and as such has a number of distinctive gimmick objects. Both of the zone's signature badniks are back (Spinies in particular being as annoying as ever), as are the revolving stairs, the bouncers, the transport tubes, the blue sphere chains, and the dangerously pink threat of Mega Mack. Missing in action are the moving platforms that formerly crossed the Mack, as well as the flip-up/flip-down segments of pipe. And frankly, I don't miss them. Both obstacles primarily served to dunk the player into the water, and Generations does that in ways that don't entail standing around for several seconds. In their place is the addition of slides (as seen in Labyrinth, Hydrocity, and elsewhere) and large boxes to roll through (as primarily seen in Green Hill and Angel Island).

With regards to the overall structure of the level, it's a much more elaborate affair than Green Hill before it. The routes branch at the start and fork further from there, crossing frequently with lots of vertical opportunities to swap from one path to another. As a result, the player is frequently given glimpses of other areas, brief flashes of possibility that beg for another playthrough to uncover their potential.

Chemical Plant is a great example of what constitutes a good classic Sonic level, one which really highlights why so many people loved the series in its glory days.


Art

A big part of what made the zone so striking in Sonic 2 is that it was this harsh, hazardous looking industrial environment positioned as just the second zone in the game after the luxurious Emerald Hill. The art that comprises the level design is reimagined in much the same way as Green Hill: a bit grittier, but faithful to the source material, if still somewhat large relative to Sonic. And then there's the background, which I can only describe as a labor of love. There's just so much of it. A seemingly endless variety of towers, silos, and vats stretch into the distance, appropriately blending into the haze of the depth-of-field effect. Up close, an array of different walls, catwalks, and machinery cover the bottom half of the stage, making every area feel distinct. The effect is supplemented with a number of different colored lights, as well as the memorable pink hue of the Mega Mack. Special mention goes to the transport tubes, which have a unique shader that distorts everything they pass in front of. It's all exceedingly well done, a vision of the level that the original STI artists could only dream of.

It's unfortunate, then, that this variety seems to be the cause of the game's worst performance issues. The engine nearly grinds to a halt on multiple occasions trying to stream it all in, and this is an engine designed to stream in large amounts of data to maintain high speed gameplay.

Music

Once again, the classic mix doesn't stray from its source material. I'm not sure that it's actually better this time, though. The original was loud and relentless and a bit muddy, but that was all part of its charm. Generations cleans the instrumentation up a bit, but the new drums just don't have the same impact and the whole thing feels slightly subdued in comparison.



chemicalplantact26fcbz.png



Level Design

Much like Act 1, Act 2 really punches the complexity up a notch over Green Hill.

The initial 3D area is a great example piece, not just for why this is a much better level than its predecessor but for how Generations does things that the series hasn't dared to try in ages. You can run in a straight line through the whole bit if you really want to. More advanced players can nail a boost ring and a rainbow ramp to shave some time, but that's nothing new. The exciting part is that you can jump off the rails and go exploring from the word go. The two paths curving around the main one are entirely solid and lead to both hidden goodies and the game's most devious shortcut. Or if you don't like that, you have the option to take a long leap off the main path and nail the back half of the shortcut on your way down to the abyss below. It's an exciting use of the full 3D space available in a way the series has always shied away from, given its historical difficulties with keeping the player from unintentionally flying off just one path.

The rest of the level mostly sticks to a simple high path and low path, with ample opportunities to fall from the former to the latter. It's much larger and more involved than anything in Green Hill, despite the basic simplicity; most of the gimmicks from Act 1 are still present in 2D and geared for modern Sonic's faster pacing, and his underutilized ability to boost across water comes in handy more than once. It doesn't feel anything like Act 1, but it does feel like Chemical Plant. Speedrunners will find multiple little deviations within both routes to save time. A brief 3D segment at the end is also interesting in that it repurposes the blue spheres in a rare instance of a 2D hazard coming to life in 3D platforming.

All in all, Act 2 isn't the most complex level in the game, but it's satisfying to run through and has plenty of payoffs for skilled play.


Art

It would've been easy to simply recycle the ideas laid out in Act 1 for a repeat viewing in Act 2. Sonic Team didn't do it the simple way.

There are the usual benefits of the 3D perspective present: Modern Sonic dashes across enormous pipes that rise and fall like rollercoasters, sprints past the towers and rides down the cranes that were just background filler to classic Sonic. It's all very exciting and striking. But Act 2 takes a step further and looks to answer a question: Why is the Mega Mack rising? Because Chemical Plant is falling apart at the seams.

It begins innocuously enough, but about halfway through a klaxon sounds, emergency lights start flashing, and you just barely slide under a closing hazard door. From there on, everything changes. The towers and vats in the background are cracked, bent, and shattered, spilling waterfalls of blue and pink ooze into the depths below while columns of smoke rise into the air. The final stretch is a literal explosive finale, as the chemicals ignite and explode around Sonic, towers crumbling into pieces as he dashes by. It provides a real sense of progression and tension to the level, a flashy and bombastic complement to the 19-year-old terror of escaping the rising pink death.


Music

When I think of Chemical Plant, the word that comes to mind is not "slow". Jun Senoue has other ideas, however, as he's dropped the zone's high-intensity tempo down several notches. It isn't sedate and it isn't quiet, but I can't shake the feeling that there was supposed to be a higher intensity version for high speeds like Green Hill. It isn't bad, but it's hard not to draw unfavorable comparisons with the blistering pace of the original. At least the lead synth isn't offensive, this time.

There's a nice effect present throughout the game for both Sonics that muffles the background music whenever they're underwater. It's set rather strong, though, to the extent that the music is almost inaudible. I'd like to see future games let up on the filter a bit.
 
That's a nice writeup. Must have taken a lot of effort, though, by the end I suspect it'll be down to...

Rooftop Run:

It's a level or something. Christ, just let this be over with...


It's pretty hard to miss the plant toppling by the end, but I didn't notice that I was sliding under a containment door.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Great writeup, Sciz. Agreed with a lot of it, especially in terms of stage design and stage aesthetic.

Sciz said:
Music

Once again, the classic mix doesn't stray from its source material. I'm not sure that it's actually better this time, though. The original was loud and relentless and a bit muddy, but that was all part of its charm. Generations cleans the instrumentation up a bit, but the new drums just don't have the same impact and the whole thing feels slightly subdued in comparison.
Going back and listening to it after hearing it in-game, I'm not too attached to the new percussion work, especially towards the end of the loop / prior to the theme relooping. It kind of feels a bit somewhat blasé (and I use this word rather loosely) in comparison to how chaotic the original was. The synth in the original was fun, but in a way, the new version seems a bit formulaic, I guess?

Sciz said:
Music

When I think of Chemical Plant, the word that comes to mind is not "slow". Jun Senoue has other ideas, however, as he's dropped the zone's high-intensity tempo down several notches. It isn't sedate and it isn't quiet, but I can't shake the feeling that there was supposed to be a higher intensity version for high speeds like Green Hill. It isn't bad, but it's hard not to draw unfavorable comparisons with the blistering pace of the original. At least the lead synth isn't offensive, this time.

There's a nice effect present throughout the game for both Sonics that muffles the background music whenever they're underwater. It's set rather strong, though, to the extent that the music is almost inaudible. I'd like to see future games let up on the filter a bit.
The muffle effect in the underwater sections didn't seem jarring in Colours but it really was here, imo. A little too much muffle, I think.

In the main section of the theme, it kind of seems too busy, and the lead synth seems to be drowned out in favour of other background sections like the guitar, other synths and percussion. I don't dislike it, but it isn't high up on my enjoyment list either. The tempo in-game, I think, is fine, though (but it's because I'm not concentrating on it too much outside of the underwater bits). Increasing the tempo a little bit in WMP (to 1.1x or 1.2x) makes it a little better out-of-game.

RagnarokX said:
It's pollen/spores/etc
Ah, thanks for clarifying. :)
 

Sciz

Member
Oh good, people are actually reading these things. I'd keep doing them anyway, but the feedback helps. Do chime in if you think I'm completely off the mark somewhere; we've had plenty of discussion about the overall feel of the game, but not too much about individual levels, and it'd be nice to get some back-and-forth going about them.

Kulock said:
That's a nice writeup. Must have taken a lot of effort, though, by the end I suspect it'll be down to...

Rooftop Run:

It's a level or something. Christ, just let this be over with...
They've each taken a couple hours so far, in part because I'm a picky writer and spend eons running through sentences in my head before I actually write one down, and in part because I go through both levels several times over in the process. Fortunately it's a fun game, and picking it apart is its own source of entertainment. It's nice to have a Sonic game that's coherent enough that I can dig through it bit by bit instead of just making blanket statements. The enormous variety of styles all around means there's a lot to talk about from stage to stage, too.

Kulock said:
It's pretty hard to miss the plant toppling by the end, but I didn't notice that I was sliding under a containment door.
It isn't physically closing, but I'm pretty sure that's the intended effect. The whole sequence brings to mind some of the other in-level transitions in the series like Angel Island bursting into flame or Icecap and Speed Highway progressing from night to dawn between acts. Wish they'd do it more often.


Dark Schala said:
I don't dislike it, but it isn't high up on my enjoyment list either.
I didn't know exactly what to think of it when we first heard the live performance, and after listening to it several times over, I still don't. The atmosphere works in-game, but it's such a weird take on the tune. Even classic Planet Wisp is more faithful in some ways.
 

TheOGB

Banned
Sciz said:
PC patch:
Sonic Generations Update Released
Product Update - Valve
Updates to Sonic Generations have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The major changes include:

- USA flag is now correctly displayed in Online Mode.
- Fixed an issue where the Shop menu would become unresponsive at low frame rates.
- More accurate timing clock to 60Hz—may fix some issues with fluctuant frame rates.
- Updated default keyboard layout.
- Keyboard controls now correctly support drift.
- Screen display has been sharpened when AA is disabled.

Notes:
- Users of NVIDIA Optimus graphics cards may experience an issue where the Configuration Tool fails to detect the Optimus card. NVIDIA are working on fixing the problem, and will get an update out shortly, during the next driver release window.

- If you experience any other problems, please contact customersupportuk@sega.co.uk with details. To help us identify and fix the issue, please provide as much information as possible on your PC hardware, and the issue that you’re experiencing.
Yeah, game looks noticably nicer now, also seems to be running better.

And I'm glad I don't have to mash the hell out of the buttons to buy a new skill :p
 
Question:

I'm trying to earn 'Time Attacker' now that I've given up on 'Can't Touch This' because I already broke some objects around my desk.

But what the hell is 'Time Attack' mode?
 

TheOGB

Banned
Go to Online Mode on the title screen

Wow, can't believe I made it through Classic Planet Wisp in one try. It took over 8 minutes, but I got the S Rank; like someone said earlier, it's actually not too bad when you spindash through the whole thing :p but that was a lot of fucking "SPIKES!"
 
TheOGB said:
Go to Online Mode on the title screen

Wow, can't believe I made it through Classic Planet Wisp in one try. It took over 8 minutes, but I got the S Rank; like someone said earlier, it's actually not too bad when you spindash through the whole thing :p but that was a lot of fucking "SPIKES!"

It seems like in Online mode that the game isn't saving my records.

I'm playing via Steam, is anyone else having this problem?
 

abasm

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
Question:

I'm trying to earn 'Time Attacker' now that I've given up on 'Can't Touch This' because I already broke some objects around my desk.

But what the hell is 'Time Attack' mode?

It's under "online mode" on the main menu. Listed as "Ranking Battle", I think.

The more I play, the more I feel like I understand what the designers were trying to achieve. I feel like Classic Sonic isn't necessarily supposed to capture the exact feel of the Genesis games, but instead adapt the thrill of speedy, simple platforming--the essence of playing those games well, except magnified. Modern Sonic, having a more robust tool set, is designed more around high-speed acrobatics, like the opening to Sonic CD. Each becomes a sort of parkour at the limits of reflex and pattern recognition as you learn the best routes and gain speed. When you get it right (in both), you get it REALLY right, and you FLOW.

Every single obstacle and enemy is placed with utmost attention to speed. The lower routes have more high walls and vertical ramps to impede forward progress, while the higher routes ferry you across ramps and bridges of floating enemies. Each is fun to traverse in its own way, and provides a nice gradient of introduction. Inexperience naturally ferries you through the "scenic" route, while you gain the knowledge necessary to speed through on subsequent runs.
 
Finally got 'Can't Touch This' by changing the music track for every retry and seeing which inspired most...

...I beat it to 'His World'.

What does this say about me? :(
 
AbsoluteZero said:
Didn't think this was worthwhile making a whole new thread for so I figured I'd post it here.

Today's my birthday, so my sister made me a cake.

RzT59.jpg

That is the sweetest thing I've ever seen. Your sister rocks. You are both very lucky.
 
petethepanda said:
Oh my dear sweet lord is this Planet Wisp level fucking boring as everloving hell. Jesus christ. Is this what Colors was like? God.
No. Colors was designed to allow you to use the powers to your benefit.

In Generations, they're a detriment to fun and necessary.
 
SuperAngelo64 said:
Finally got 'Can't Touch This' by changing the music track for every retry and seeing which inspired most...

...I beat it to 'His World'.

What does this say about me? :(

His World, Live & Learn, and Un-Gravitify are my inspiration songs when I'm getting owned and need encouragement. =D
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Sciz said:
As much as Planet Wisp got wrong, hearing the announcer again for the first time put a big smile on my face.
Even better in Japanese (ie: the Kamen Rider W reference). Supaiku! (Maximum Drive!) Roketto! (Maximum Drive!)

I haven't tried the other languages yet. I wonder if they have their own announcer dub?

petethepanda said:
Oh my dear sweet lord is this Planet Wisp level fucking boring as everloving hell. Jesus christ. Is this what Colors was like? God.
Absolutely not. You weren't forced to solve puzzles with the wisps at every turn. Sometimes they were optional in the Act in Colours.

The Modern Sonic version of the level isn't weird like the Classic Sonic version, though.
 

Seik

Banned
AbsoluteZero said:
Didn't think this was worthwhile making a whole new thread for so I figured I'd post it here.

Today's my birthday, so my sister made me a cake.

http://i.imgur.com/RzT59.jpg

Happy birthday!!! :D

Nice cake, I was expecting that Sonic cake picture that is floating on GAF since a few weeks:
Nhqyt.jpg

Damn... it's so ugly its driving me insane each time I see it haha!

The cake your sister made rocks though!
 
SuperAngelo64 said:
Finally got 'Can't Touch This' by changing the music track for every retry and seeing which inspired most...

...I beat it to 'His World'.

What does this say about me? :(
"His World" is an awesome Sonic song. So is "Dreams of Absolution", for that matter. I liked the vocal work in S2006. If only it was a CD instead of a video game.
 
AbsoluteZero said:
Didn't think this was worthwhile making a whole new thread for so I figured I'd post it here.

Today's my birthday, so my sister made me a cake.

RzT59.jpg

I don't mean to make your sister look bad or anything.

EjiAnl.jpg

Bz5Fml.jpg
 
Finally!

S Rank on every stage and challenge! All Red Rings!

All Achieveme-

-wait... what?

48/49 Achievements Earned?

What the fuck! There's no more achievements to earn...
 

DeVeAn

Member
SuperAngelo64 said:
Finally!

S Rank on every stage and challenge! All Red Rings!

All Achieveme-

-wait... what?

48/49 Achievements Earned?

What the fuck! There's no more achievements to earn...
Glitch restored level, double check mine was speed highway had to make a new save just for that cheevo.

Also, on PC the patch did not help performance unless I just didn't get a patch. Still stutters in chemical plant and speedhighway pretty often.
 

Gaspode_T

Member
Ok, I'm sorry but I have to go back on my impressions from TGS, I don't know what the heck was up with that build (I was playing on PS3 in 3D so maybe that was what was throwing the input lag into the mix)

I couldn't help picking up 360 Generations for $39 from Fry's at 10 bucks off, I just beat the first 3 levels and I'm kind of blown away. It's way better than I expected it to be from my TGS impression. Basically I have no problem with controls at all and sound/audio is great.
 
DeVeAn said:
Glitch restored level, double check mine was speed highway had to make a new save just for that cheevo.

Also, on PC the patch did not help performance unless I just didn't get a patch. Still stutters in chemical plant and speedhighway pretty often.

Seems that one of the Achievements doesn't show up. "Look Boys Ways" (Clear Crisis City Modern without taking damage from the debris from the fire tornado) wasn't showing up. Now I've got 100%
 

morningbus

Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Developers can hide achievements, that's why some aren't showing up in the list. However, they do show up on the Global list.
 

Veal

Member
I think Sega missed a grand nostalgia opportunity by not having the original "SEEEEGAAAAA" play when the game starts. Also Rooftop Run is awesome. Fuck the haterz.
 
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