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SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 or AGAINST |OT| of Huelen in Green-Eyed Heaven

R

Roto13

Member
RuneFactoryFanboy said:
Just tried the demo. After 10 minutes of being completely appalled at how horrible this game is I had to record it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLGqYXp5UYY

I wouldn't even call this a good platformer, let alone a good Sonic sequel.
Click to expand...
You sound exactly how I imagine every single unpleasable classic Sonic fan to sound.
CurseoftheGods said:
I can't count the number of times the term "physics" has been mentioned in this thread. I don't think it's bad as most people make it out to be.

Were Mario fans this anal when they changed SMB3's physics in Super Mario All-Stars?
Click to expand...
The Mario equivalent of retro Sonic fans were, yeah. :p Not many of those, though.
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
Mario fans don't generally freak out as much over physics because I don't think any two Mario games (outside the .5 sequels SMB2J and SMG2) had even remotely the same physics. So if you're a Mario fan and you want to freak out about physics, you have to decide which physics were the proper ones in the first place. I remember people getting pissy about the way Mario controlled in NSMB DS simply because the game tried to bring the physics back to SMB1's and people were more used to, or liked better, SMB3 or SMW physics.
 
A

accolade

Neo Member
dark10x said:
I don't even know how to respond to that, but hey, to each his own.

Level design was dead simple as well. You want push right to win gameplay? Here ya go...

http://www.soniccenter.org/maps/s1ggz11.png
http://www.soniccenter.org/maps/s1ggz21.png

This one barely looks like a Sonic map. It's a bunch of cubes scattered about.
http://www.soniccenter.org/maps/s1ggz31.png
Click to expand...
you over look the fact that the older Sonic games allowed you to speed through the game. This is something that's hardly existent in the current Sonic games.


Sonic 1 and Sonic Triple Trouble were actually pretty good Sonic SMS and Game Gear games. That are pretty much unrivaled.
 
A

accolade

Neo Member
SwiftSketcher said:
You forgot the part where a small ramp sends Sonic careening into the atmosphere, literally off screen for several seconds, until the camera coding catches up. Hows that for sound physics.

This shit gets ridiculous sometimes.
Click to expand...
Sonic CD does the same thing.

and since this was during the old hey day when the real Sonic Team was working on it, I call it normalcy.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
Segata Sanshiro said:
Mario fans don't generally freak out as much over physics because I don't think any two Mario games (outside the .5 sequels SMB2J and SMG2) had even remotely the same physics. So if you're a Mario fan and you want to freak out about physics, you have to decide which physics were the proper ones in the first place. I remember people getting pissy about the way Mario controlled in NSMB DS simply because the game tried to bring the physics back to SMB1's and people were more used to, or liked better, SMB3 or SMW physics.
Click to expand...

I have seen arguments and comments that SMW's physics are "off," (in that other Sonic thread even), but I think it really is preference. I prefer SMW's because they feel a little more nimble and it feels like you can just do more with Mario. In my opinion they offer the most control over Mario, and that's why they're the best.

SMB1's physics were decent for a first try, but I dislike how slow Mario is at max speed and how heavy he generally feels.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Segata Sanshiro said:
Mario fans don't generally freak out as much over physics because I don't think any two Mario games (outside the .5 sequels SMB2J and SMG2) had even remotely the same physics. So if you're a Mario fan and you want to freak out about physics, you have to decide which physics were the proper ones in the first place. I remember people getting pissy about the way Mario controlled in NSMB DS simply because the game tried to bring the physics back to SMB1's and people were more used to, or liked better, SMB3 or SMW physics.
Click to expand...
For me its just that the control in Sonic 3 & Knuckles was as close as I think I've ever felt a 2D platformer get to control perfection. I would kill for another game that felt that tight.


Andrex said:
I have seen arguments and comments that SMW's physics are "off," (in that other Sonic thread even), but I think it really is preference. I prefer SMW's because they feel a little more nimble and it feels like you can just do more with Mario. In my opinion they offer the most control over Mario, and that's why they're the best.
Click to expand...
Hm, I feel exactly the opposite: Mario feels floaty and clumsy in World.
 
LQX

LQX

Member
I kind of liked it though it felt like I was stopping too much which I hate in a Sonic game. Also seems way overpriced.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
The_Technomancer said:
Hm, I feel exactly the opposite: Mario feels floaty and clumsy in World.
Click to expand...

It seems to me Mario got a little lighter with each game. I believe Mario is easier to stop (he doesn't travel as far if you're running then take your fingers off the button) in World, which is probably why I give it my favor.
 
F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
Finally tried the demo on xbox, and it's worse than I could have thought.

The slow speed from stop, the janky jumping and stopping, and the way sonic sticks to the ground feels so off.

Wow.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Mario fans don't generally freak out as much over physics because I don't think any two Mario games (outside the .5 sequels SMB2J and SMG2) had even remotely the same physics. So if you're a Mario fan and you want to freak out about physics, you have to decide which physics were the proper ones in the first place. I remember people getting pissy about the way Mario controlled in NSMB DS simply because the game tried to bring the physics back to SMB1's and people were more used to, or liked better, SMB3 or SMW physics.
Click to expand...

Same happened when NSMB wii released.
 
J

jman2050

Member
Every Mario game has generally felt the same way with only minor differences. There was never as dramatic a change like Sonic 4 is to the original games.
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
jman2050 said:
Every Mario game has generally felt the same way with only minor differences. There was never as dramatic a change like Sonic 4 is to the original games.
Click to expand...
Congratulations! You are as to Mario as the average person is to Sonic.

Each Mario game has incredibly different physics, mostly with regards to Mario's weight and momentum.
 
J

jman2050

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Congratulations! You are as to Mario as the average person is to Sonic.

Each Mario game has incredibly different physics, mostly with regards to Mario's weight and momentum.
Click to expand...

But he still had momentum and weight, even if the specifics were different. A classic Sonic game made now doesn't HAVE to be precisely identical to the original to actually do it well, as many from-scratch fangames show. Sonic 4 didn't even get the basics right.
 
T

ThatObviousUser

ὁ αἴσχιστος παῖς εἶ
Teknoman said:
I dunno...if you play Mario World then go right into NSMB Wii, feels totally different. Mario has more...weight to him?
Click to expand...

To me the NSMB games felt right, but I didn't try to play them like the 2D games. The 2.5D/3D tricked my brain into forgetting the physics of the older games and I've come to appreciate the New series' physics, which has been helped by the great animation for each model. It feels like Mario in the New series plays less like a 2D cut out and more like an actual person and I do like it.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Andrex said:
To me the NSMB games felt right, but I didn't try to play them like the 2D games. The 2.5D/3D tricked my brain into forgetting the physics of the older games and I've come to appreciate the New series' physics, which has been helped by the great animation for each model. It feels like Mario in the New series plays less like a 2D cut out and more like an actual person and I do like it.
Click to expand...

Oh yeah, I like NSMB, just saying that it really feels different from older Mario titles.


Adventure era mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOeDL96i7i4&feature=related
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Andrex said:
To me the NSMB games felt right, but I didn't try to play them like the 2D games. The 2.5D/3D tricked my brain into forgetting the physics of the older games and I've come to appreciate the New series' physics, which has been helped by the great animation for each model. It feels like Mario in the New series plays less like a 2D cut out and more like an actual person and I do like it.
Click to expand...
I mean, I'll be the first to admit that the controls in Galaxy are the absolute pinnacle of 3D platforming control. They feel perfect. But...I dunno, when I'm controlling 2D Sonic it feels easier to get him to where I want to go then with 2D Mario.
 
A

Aaron Strife

Banned
Been speed running Splash Hill 2 and Casino Street 3. I'm not like the best Sonic player in the world but I think I'm doing alright. Around 57 seconds for SH2, little over 2 minutes for CS3.

Hope I can put them up on youtube soon.
 
S

Segata Sanshiro

Member
jman2050 said:
But he still had momentum and weight, even if the specifics were different. A classic Sonic game made now doesn't HAVE to be precisely identical to the original to actually do it well, as many from-scratch fangames show. Sonic 4 didn't even get the basics right.
Click to expand...
I would argue that Mario in Super Mario World is practically a hollow plastic glider compared to Mario in Super Mario Bros. 1. It feels very, very different. Like, in Super Mario All-Stars, they had the great idea to do all the remakes with, more or less, the same engine. Sure they tweaked it for the differences in SMB USA, but the point here is that they did the remake of SMB1 using the SMAS engine, which was a bit of a hybrid between SMB3 and SMW. The result? You can't play SMB1 SMAS the same way you play SMB1 NES. Everything moves differently.

The reason Sonic fans are more concerned with the physics is because the physics *were* the same for the four Genesis titles, unlike Mario's variable engines. Thus, the Genesis physics are considered an essential element of the series, much like Mario's red chapeau. Thus, when that element is not faithful, fans of the old Sonic games may not be pleased. Rightfully so, from their perspective.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
While we're posting music, Sonic 2 GG fused with Sonic CD JP/EU's theme song =

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJD8hpb5CI0&NR=1

ie03fr.gif


EDIT: Actually I just learned that toot toot Sonic warrior was actually based off Sonic 2 GG's Green Hills?

MIND BLOWN.

Actually...would anyone mind making me an avatar out of the gif above?
 
G

Gospel

Parmesan et Romano
Well I just downloaded the demo. I'm a closet Sonic fan of both old and new so I was really expecting to like the game, but...
some small things are really off-putting

I don't really like how close the camera is to Sonic. If it were a little more panned back, I would be able to play a little less delicately.

I don't like it when I let go of the the direction I'm currently holding, Sonic stops almost immediately. Even when he's running down a slope, it's a near complete stop the moment I let go.

When I lose rings, they don't seem to go anywhere.

I do like the visuals and the homing attack though.
 
DeVeAn

DeVeAn

Member
To those videos of Sonic on walking in place on the wall, Are you fucken serious! Who in the hell goes out of there way to do that? A tester? Yeah it happens but come on.

So if I show off a speed run will that show people how cool the game is?
 
T

Teknoman

Member
DeVeAn said:
To those videos of Sonic on walking in place on the wall, Are you fucken serious! Who in the hell goes out of there way to do that? A tester? Yeah it happens but come on.

So if I show off a speed run will that show people how cool the game is?
Click to expand...

Go for it.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
DeVeAn said:
To those videos of Sonic on walking in place on the wall, Are you fucken serious! Who in the hell goes out of there way to do that? A tester? Yeah it happens but come on.

So if I show off a speed run will that show people how cool the game is?
Click to expand...

Yes...out of our way to do that...
 
J

jman2050

Member
DeVeAn said:
So if I show off a speed run will that show people how cool the game is?
Click to expand...

Oh I have no doubt the game will be fun to watch. I mean, the Sonic Advance 2 TAS is one of my most favorite speed runs ever even though the game sucks.
 
F

FunkyMunkey

Banned
DeVeAn said:
To those videos of Sonic on walking in place on the wall, Are you fucken serious! Who in the hell goes out of there way to do that? A tester? Yeah it happens but come on.

So if I show off a speed run will that show people how cool the game is?
Click to expand...

LOL so running up a wall and stopping is considering "game testing" now?

This happened to me in the demo actually, but I was falling down a slope. I hit the crux of it and suddenly stopped as if I hit a wall. Me and going out of my way to break the game, geez :lol.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Teknoman said:
ie03fr.gif


EDIT: Actually I just learned that toot toot Sonic warrior was actually based off Sonic 2 GG's Green Hills?

MIND BLOWN.

Actually...would anyone mind making me an avatar out of the gif above?
Click to expand...
Heh, that image will always be Jman's old avatar from a different forum for me. Always.
 
G

Gospel

Parmesan et Romano
FunkyMunkey said:
LOL so running up a wall and stopping is considering "game testing" now?

This happened to me in the demo actually, but I was falling down a slope. I hit the crux of it and suddenly stopped as if I hit a wall. Me and going out of my way to break the game, geez :lol.
Click to expand...
:lol yeah just happened to me a little while ago. I'm not looking for anything to hate on with this game; I like it for what it is, but it has a issues here and there.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Dark Machine said:
Yeah, even Casino Night Zone in S2 bores me once the slot machine novelty's worn off. Plus Act 2 is far too long in that game, same compaint about Metropolis. Act 3 (the cannon act) is okay...but not great. Could do better on that one Sonic Team.
Click to expand...

BigBadShamoo said:
Same Here, I actually prefer the casino level in SA1 to all the other casino levels in the other sonic games.
Click to expand...

Oh, so I'm not crazy. :lol

claviertekky said:
Regarding SF4, that game would have been a piece of shit had the game not be intervened to fix the controls.

That situation sounds familiar except we have one that wasn't intervened.
Click to expand...

Off topic, but can you elaborate on this at all? I never heard anything about the controls? I do remember that they changed up the hitboxes nearing the end of development.
 
DeVeAn

DeVeAn

Member
There is a speed run on youtube from a fellow at gamesradar. Honestly though just making a point.

Thing is haters gonna hate, still some of the stuff being posted is whack. It really seems like some are going above a beyond the extra mile to make sure this game gets the worst it can get.

It like when MM9 came out, I wasn't here but other sites had people bitching because its not MM8 graphics. Fans are never please and I don't know how devs can deal with those types of fans.
 
J

jman2050

Member
DeVeAn said:
It like when MM9 came out, I wasn't here but other sites had people bitching because its not MM8 graphics. Fans are never please and I don't know how devs can deal with those types of fans.
Click to expand...

Now you're just reaching trying to compare MM9's release to this game's.
 
H

HadesGigas

Member
DeVeAn said:
There is a speed run on youtube from a fellow at gamesradar. Honestly though just making a point.

Thing is haters gonna hate, still some of the stuff being posted is whack. It really seems like some are going above a beyond the extra mile to make sure this game gets the worst it can get.

It like when MM9 came out, I wasn't here but other sites had people bitching because its not MM8 graphics. Fans are never please and I don't know how devs can deal with those types of fans.
Click to expand...

I doubt there's a large overlap of people who hate MM9 graphic style AND Sonic 4 style. Maybe Mega Man Universe and Sonic 4.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
I really would like someone to interview Iizuka again, asking why they decided to make Sonic uncurl after coming out of a ramp, as well as a few other key gameplay changes.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
I really dont see how people are getting stuck on the torch puzzle. Its really not hard at all.

That being said, Mad Gear Zone is awesome. Act 1 so far is the quality they should've shot for with the majority of the stages, both level layout and music style.
 
DeVeAn

DeVeAn

Member
jman2050 said:
Now you're just reaching trying to compare MM9's release to this game's.
Click to expand...
Its a similar situation in general thats why I used it. People flipped when you could not use the charge shot or slide in MM9, People are already done with DMC because of Dante's new look. Sonic had new physics and homing attack so its crap.

I am not comparing games head to head. The situation is similar and it always the same things. I guarantee if Sonic 4 looked just like Sonic 3 with new levels a group of people would complain till the end of time about how it should have had Sonic 2's theme instead.

Nobody is changing anybody's mind.
 
R

RobbieNick

Junior Member
Roto13 said:
Fucking torch puzzle.
Click to expand...

Worst part of the game. What the hell were they thinking? I've played this a second time and now can't pass it again!! I light one torch, wait a sec, light the other. Then when I go to jump to the column, it lights up another and fucks me up!!

Like I said before, the Mine-kart level on the iPod is better.

Hunh. I wonder what Andrex did wrong to get him banned?
 
V

vazel

Banned
That last boss was a bitch.

I'm a newcomer to Sonic and I liked this game. I'm having loads of fun replaying acts to experiment with different paths and see how fast I can finish. If this is what a bad Sonic game is I can't wait to play the originals after I'm done with this game. Although personally I think some of you just need to approach the Sonic games developed by Sonic Team and those by Dimps a little differently, they both have their merits from what I've seen.

Also I just want to say that I love my PS3 for letting me use the Sega Saturn USB pad. :D
 
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