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SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 or AGAINST |OT| of Huelen in Green-Eyed Heaven

riceandbeans said:
That is true. Sega had balls to delay the game in response to all the negative criticisms towards the mine cart level, casino street, and the physics. But some of the "fixes" they included were just sort of off the mark like they still don't understand what's fun and not fun. Mostly Labryinth Zone act 2 and the torch puzzle mid-way through. Y'know after a while you just get kind of sick of the whole, "they're listening and the next game will be better" routine.

Why are people mentioning one of the best parts of the game as being shit?

Is it because Sonic holds a torch? Is it because the stage requires actual exploration? Is it because some type of brain power is required to play a Sonic game post 1999?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?

Edit:

I guess my Office Space reference didn't work out as planned...
 

clav

Member
FrostuTheNinja said:
Why are people mentioning one of the best parts of the game as being shit?

Is it because Sonic holds a torch? Is it because the stage requires actual exploration? Is it because some type of brain power is required to play a Sonic game post 1999?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?
People have different opinions.
 
claviertekky said:
People have different opinions.
Oh yeah? My uncle always said opinions are like assholes.

Some of them are unfounded with no basis in reality and are prone to bias due to environmental growth and personal experiences.

Something like that.

In any case the LLZ2 puzzle is awesome.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
FrostuTheNinja said:
Why are people mentioning one of the best parts of the game as being shit?

Is it because Sonic holds a torch? Is it because the stage requires actual exploration? Is it because some type of brain power is required to play a Sonic game post 1999?

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!?

Edit:

I guess my Office Space reference didn't work out as planned...

Because the puzzle was frustrating shit and the rest of the level consisted mostly of 'run to the right to light up those things on the wall'
and because it's not the game Sega promised us
 
Aaron Strife said:
Oh yeah? My uncle always said opinions are like assholes.

Some of them are unfounded with no basis in reality and are prone to bias based on a person's life experiences.

Sometimes,
dicks fuck assholes.

Combichristoffersen said:
Because the puzzle was frustrating shit and the rest of the level consisted mostly of 'run to the right to light up those things on the wall'
and because it's not the game Sega promised us

It was frustrating to light four torches in a particular order?

Wow...
 

Shearie

Member
I really like what I've played of the demo and I want to buy the full version but I don't know if I should go for the PS3 or iPod version. The lower price and the few extra levels is enticing but since there's no iPod demo for it, I don't know if it controls good or not. Any impressions for people who bought this off the AppStore?
 
Shearie said:
I really like what I've played of the demo and I want to buy the full version but I don't know if I should go for the PS3 or iPod version. The lower price and the few extra levels is enticing but since there's no iPod demo for it, I don't know if it controls good or not. Any impressions for people who bought this off the AppStore?

Go ahead and spend the extra few bones on the PS3 version. It's miles ahead of the iOS revision.

Also, whoever had the idea to spin the screen when going through a loop on the iOS version, deserves a kick in the teeth.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
Because the puzzle was frustrating shit and the rest of the level consisted mostly of 'run to the right to light up those things on the wall'
and because it's not the game Sega promised us

Sorry, but wow...

People say they don't want 'hold right to win' then come out with that...wow...

v5a6mvjpg.gif
 

Shearie

Member
FrostuTheNinja said:
Also, whoever had the idea to spin the screen when going through a loop on the iOS version, deserves a kick in the teeth.

Yeah, I just started looking at some videos of the iOS version and noticed that. Everytime Sonic went through a loop it gave me motion sickness.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
In a Sonic game? Yeah. I don't want no fucking puzzles in my Sonic games. I want platforming. Like Sonic 2.

I can't really fault anyone on that.

But the fact of the matter is...

That Sega died with the Saturn/Dreamcast. It's heartbreaking, I know. But them's the breaks.

GunValkyrie is still one of the best games Sega has produced "post humus".

RobbieNick said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbfqEavISbA

Now THIS is what Sonic is all about. Using your skills to find the best speed. I can do 48'67 myself. Had to look hard to find the right path.

It's good to see people kicking the crap out of this game regardless of, "wonky physics".
 
Shearie said:
I really like what I've played of the demo and I want to buy the full version but I don't know if I should go for the PS3 or iPod version. The lower price and the few extra levels is enticing but since there's no iPod demo for it, I don't know if it controls good or not. Any impressions for people who bought this off the AppStore?

The controls suck in all versions, but suck more without tactile response. Pretty much the same as all other touchscreen games though. I'd go with the console version. 60fps vs 30fps, and the two console exclusive levels in Sonic 4 are arguably the two best levels.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
FrostuTheNinja said:
I can't really fault anyone on that.

But the fact of the matter is...

That Sega died with the Saturn/Dreamcast. It's heartbreaking, I know. But them's the breaks.

GunValkyrie is still one of the best games Sega has produced "post humus".

I know. But I refuse to give up hope of the good Sega returning one day, to make the real Sonic 4 ;_; Sega promised us Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Dimps gave us Sonic Advance 4. And people wonder why oldschool Sonic fans are bitter, angry and jaded ;_;
 
Combichristoffersen said:
I know. But I refuse to give up hope of the good Sega returning one day, to make the real Sonic 4 ;_; Sega promised us Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Dimps gave us Sonic Advance 4. And people wonder why oldschool Sonic fans are bitter, angry and jaded ;_;

I hear you. I'd love a faithful resurrection as much as the next fellow. It's just that a lot of us said, "Why can't we get an Advance/Rush like title on consoles?" And that's exactly what we got and there is still a large amount of discontent.

Edit:

Holy crap, I've posted too much on a single page and it's very late...

Have at it.
 

Pietepiet

Member
accolade said:
you over look the fact that the older Sonic games allowed you to speed through the game. This is something that's hardly existent in the current Sonic games.

I'm sorry, what? You can't be serious. All people ever complained about when it comes to the current Sonic games like the Advance series was that they were too focused on speed and "holding right to win" and how that was nothing like the classic games, and now you're saying that that was something the classic games did? God..
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Pietepiet said:
I'm sorry, what? You can't be serious. All people ever complained about when it comes to the current Sonic games like the Advance series was that they were too focused on speed and "holding right to win" and how that was nothing like the classic games, and now you're saying that that was something the classic games did? God..

The only levels you could speed through were the first levels, really. Something like Scrap Brain Zone or Metropolis Zone would be extremely hard, probably even impossible, to speed through without using debug cheats

RobbieNick said:
They did. You just refuse to believe. You guys have hated Sonic games for so long you can't see a good one when it's right in front of you. This is a great Sonic game. Metacritic numbers don't lie.:D

I gotta ask, how many are playing using analog sticks instead of D-Pads? Maybe that's part of the problem.

Sonic Advance being good? Bah, humbug!

It's not a bad game. It's just not a great game either, and certainly not the Sonic 4 oldschool fans wanted.
 

RobbieNick

Junior Member
Combichristoffersen said:
I know. But I refuse to give up hope of the good Sega returning one day, to make the real Sonic 4 ;_;

They did. You just refuse to believe. You guys have hated Sonic games for so long you can't see a good one when it's right in front of you. This is a great Sonic game. Metacritic numbers don't lie.:D

I gotta ask, how many are playing using analog sticks instead of D-Pads? Maybe that's part of the problem.
 
pmj said:
Sales are one thing, but they should realize on their own that modern Sonic has problems.

But this is Sonic Team and I can't tell whether they're cynical businessmen who continue to make sub-par games because they sell, or if they honestly think their games are better than ever. You'd think the former is a no-brainer, but some of the interviews with Iizuka suggest otherwise. But either way, I doubt we'll ever get an old style Sonic game from them, because either they're incompetent and will invariably screw it up, or they'll still cater to fans of new Sonic because they're afraid of losing sales.

I hope I'm wrong, because otherwise I'll be forced to start my own and never to be completed fan project as an outlet for my frustration.
Again, and I'm speaking of Dimps here more than anything, why should they realize it? The games sell a couple million every time, with little-to-no degradation at all in sales (which is usually the best clue that they've done something wrong with a game, the next one sells worse), and they consistently review well, so again, why would they think something is amiss?
 

pmj

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Again, and I'm speaking of Dimps here more than anything, why should they realize it? The games sell a couple million every time, with little-to-no degradation at all in sales (which is usually the best clue that they've done something wrong with a game, the next one sells worse), and they consistently review well, so again, why would they think something is amiss?
I really don't understand how you can confuse sales with quality, and I'm talking about Sonic Team here. Yes, you may believe that you're pleasing a lot of people, but if you're a game designer or artist or anyone that does anythign creatively you should know whether your work is as good as it could be, or if it could stand to be improved, and how. The people in charge of McDonalds knows that their burgers are bad, and they know how they could be made better. It doesn't make sense for them to change their formula, but if McDonalds for some reason wanted to get into high quality burgers, you wouldn't expect them to need pointers from the public on how to go about this.

This isn't rocket science. I can play Sonic 4 and not just feel that something is off, but be able to specifically tell what's different, why it's bad and how it should be changed, and I'm not one of the crazed fans that replay the classic Sonics once a month. In fact, I haven't touched a Sonic game in at least five years. Yet I can do that and so should they. Is there any reason that I don't see why they wouldn't be able to tell except ineptitude or insanity?
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
Impressions from someone who's never played a Rush or Adventure game. Or any Sonic game besides the first four on Genesis. (I played part of the Sonic RPG on DS but didn't like it).


Pros:

Level design is pretty darn good.

The spin attack is pretty cool when you're chaining enemies.

I remember one level where some boulder was rolling after me and I escaped just in time. That was cool.

I remember another part where I was falling down some sand and had to jump off or else I would just keep falling in an endless loop. That seemed like an homage to that part in Ice Cap Zone so that was cool, too.

Color palette is gorgeous at times.

Backdrop/skybox is also pretty cool at times. Casino Zone had a nice one.

Music isn't that bad.


Cons:

The physics feel weird. Really weird. Sonic feels really sluggish and slow when you're trying to get moving. Once you get going it's OK though.

There were a ton of times when really bizarre stuff happened like I would be able to run up a wall at a speed where I felt like I shouldn't have been able to. Or I would fall onto a slope and just stop dead still and stand at a gravity-defying angle. There were also times where, after spinning up a ramp into the air, I'd try to land on an enemy because I totally forgot Sonic goes into that little falling motion instead of staying in a ball. Also, sometimes I'd land on a bumper in Casino Zone and roll down the bumper in ball form at a snail's crawl. The fact that that was able to happen lets me know that something's borked with the physics.

It also feels weird the way he stops in midair if you let off the stick. I died a lot just trying to cross platforms over a pit because I couldn't get the hang of the jumping.

Because Sonic is so sluggish, I always try to use the spin attack to get him moving and I end up doing something wrong. Like dashing off the side of a cliff or into spikes or something. I just want him to start running at a normal pace. Like he did in the Genesis games.

For that matter, the spin attack is really inconsistent for me. Sometimes I'll be a split second too late for an enemy or spring and then I lose the lock and attack in a bad direction. Also, I should be able to do the dash up, too. It's annoying that it only goes sideways or down. I like the idea of the spin attack, but it just feels too inconsistent. Which is weird since it's apparently been in all the games since S&K, so you'd think they would have it ironed out by now.

The camera feels way too close. I noticed this immediately. It pulls out a few times during some boss fights and it feels amazing then. I was always disappointed when the battle ended and it zoomed back in. I guess I eventually got used to this, though.

I don't remember what level it was but there was a big wall chasing me (a la Hydrocity Zone Act 2) and it definitely cheated whenever I got too far ahead. It would catch up when it was off-camera. Annoying.

I was never once able to jump into one of the big rings. Every time I tried, it pulled me away and made me run offscreen. I guess I wasn't getting there fast enough?

The final boss. After five game-overs and only getting to the "ground falling away" part on the final two game-overs, I gave up. I'll probably try again tomorrow, but this boss is unreasonably difficult and frustrating.

One last thing that isn't a big deal but it's still annoying: Sonic looks dumb. He looks like a 3D character on a 2D surface and it just looks weird and cheap. He should be a sprite.

Overall:

The game is kinda fun. But if Sonic's movement felt right then this game would be so much better. Movement just feels way too sluggish and I never got used to it. It was annoying the entire game.

Also the final boss is annoying and not in a fun way. I just had no idea what to do. I kept having to learn his next thing and how to beat it and then he'd have another form that was difficult to figure out. I never figured out what to do when the ground falls away.

I hate to say it but whoever compared this to Mega Man 9 earlier in the thread said it right. MM9 is basically identical to the classic games but just with new stages. That's what should have been done here. I'd never played a single MM game after the first six, but I will have my wallet ready Day 1 for any more like 9 and 10 because they were fantastic. But unfortunately, this Sonic game isn't like that; it feels much different from the older games. So while I might buy the next episode to see what's changed or fixed, I definitely won't branch out anywhere else into the Sonic franchise because I don't feel like I've missed anything over the past fifteen years.
 
pmj said:
Is there any reason that I don't see why they wouldn't be able to tell except ineptitude or insanity?

Because you're saying things need changing (which I agree with, improvements can be made), however SS is pointing out that the 'market' (ALL GLORY TO THE MARKET!) is saying there's nothing wrong with what they're doing now because they're making money, their games are 'quality' because they sell sell sell. What a few reviewers or forum-goers say makes no odds to them and their accountants. Jus' Sayin'
 
Cocopjojo said:
The final boss. After five game-overs and only getting to the "ground falling away" part on the final two game-overs, I gave up. I'll probably try again tomorrow, but this boss is unreasonably difficult and frustrating.

Protip:
Have you tried hitting him after he hits the ground but before the floor collapses? :D
 
Dark Machine said:
Because you're saying things need changing (which I agree with, improvements can be made), however SS is pointing out that the 'market' (ALL GLORY TO THE MARKET!) is saying there's nothing wrong with what they're doing now because they're making money, their games are 'quality' because they sell sell sell. What a few reviewers or forum-goers say makes no odds to them and their accountants. Jus' Sayin'

Which is a very weak and inane thing to say in response to that. It makes no sense as a reply to valid complaints about the game and/or its mechanics.

It's akin to posting sales numbers in a topic where people are encountering problems in a game. Does that alleviate the problems one bit? Does that invalidate the complaints? No and no.

Sales =/= Quality and making Sonic a special case is facepalm worthy.
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
Dark Machine said:
Protip:
Have you tried hitting him after he hits the ground but before the floor collapses? :D
I was going to figure it out on my own but I read your spoiler anyway. :) I'm usually not even near him because I have no rings by that point and I have to stay far away in case he does the hand rocket thing. So I wasn't even sure what he was doing besides making the floor fall away somehow. But I guess now I know to get near him. :)
 
FunkyMunkey said:
Which is a very weak and inane thing to say in response to that. It makes no sense as a reply to valid complaints about the game and/or its mechanics.

It's akin to posting sales numbers in a topic where people are encountering problems in a game. Does that alleviate the problems one bit? Does that invalidate the complaints? No and no.

Sales =/= Quality and making Sonic a special case is facepalm worthy.

Did I say that I agreed with the notion? Did I? No. So don't say or imply or even think that I did. I simply illustrated the problems of getting a large company to change its products when the bottom line is telling them there's very little wrong with them. That's all. Read properly next time please. I think the game can be improved, though I don't believe there's as much wrong with it as loads of you in this thread claim. You'd think it was unplayable, I and many others have been having loads of fun with it the past day and a bit.

The Castlevania forgiveness comparison from a couple pages back was apt it seems. The rage for Sonic games these days is truly unbelievable compared to any other series of games.

Cocopjojo said:
I was going to figure it out on my own but I read your spoiler anyway. :) I'm usually not even near him because I have no rings by that point and I have to stay far away in case he does the hand rocket thing. So I wasn't even sure what he was doing besides making the floor fall away somehow. But I guess now I know to get near him. :)

Hey no worries man, I had to ask my friend what to do too which is why I posted. It's so bloody simple that I kicked myself when it worked, stupid insta-death by the floor cost me 15 lives.
 
Dark Machine said:
Did I say that I agreed with the notion? Did I? No. So don't say or imply or even think that I did. I simply illustrated the problems of getting a large company to change its products when the bottom line is telling them there's very little wrong with them. That's all. Read properly next time please. I think the game can be improved, though I don't believe there's as much wrong with it as loads of you in this thread claim. You'd think it was unplayable, I and many others have been having loads of fun with it the past day and a bit.

I never implied that you did, only continuing the discussion by replying to you.

If you say "person A said this", and I quote you and say "yeah but that's an odd thing to say", how, in your mind, is that me lumping your opinions into one? Bizarre.
 
FunkyMunkey said:
Which is a very weak and inane thing to say in response to that. It makes no sense as a reply to valid complaints about the game and/or its mechanics.

It's akin to posting sales numbers in a topic where people are encountering problems in a game. Does that alleviate the problems one bit? Does that invalidate the complaints? No and no.

Sales =/= Quality and making Sonic a special case is facepalm worthy.
I'm not saying whether or not it's good or right. I'm merely saying how it is. Dimps makes a game. That game gets good reviews (every Dimps Sonic game has scored well, above 80% average). That game sells extremely well. If the fans say *nothing*, how are they to know they made a bad game?

If you want to sit at the adult table at GAF, I'd appreciate it if you'd at least follow the conversation before you jump in with your ridiculous misinterpretations. I at no point used this as a reply to complaints about the game or the mechanics. I used it as a reply to "HOW COULD DIMPS POSSIBLY NOT KNOW THE GAME IS WRONG?"
 

Go319

Member
ok soo i REALLY REALLY hate the iphone version, controls mostly, not hating the PS3 game.

then end boss is very repetitive and kinda boring, im dying from not paying attention lol...i may finish it...may not..
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
I'm not saying whether or not it's good or right. I'm merely saying how it is. Dimps makes a game. That game gets good reviews (every Dimps Sonic game has scored well, above 80% average). That game sells extremely well. If the fans say *nothing*, how are they to know they made a bad game?

If you want to sit at the adult table at GAF, I'd appreciate it if you'd at least follow the conversation before you jump in with your ridiculous misinterpretations. I at no point used this as a reply to complaints about the game or the mechanics. I used it as a reply to "HOW COULD DIMPS POSSIBLY NOT KNOW THE GAME IS WRONG?"

So I assume you make it your job to go into other topics, and explain to any irritated gamers there(who purchased the topics game and/or played the demo) who are displeased, that the game sells well, so their complaints fall on deaf ears of the devs?

The path goes:

1.) People go "Physics suck! Come on Dimps, fix this somehow!"
2.) You respond by saying the games sell well so whoopty-doo.

? It's an odd way to reply to complaints. I expect sale figures from you soon as more people play and complain about the issues.

edit: And yeah, you're actually directly replying to complaints by posting things like:

Segata Sanshiro said:
Again, and I'm speaking of Dimps here more than anything, why should they realize it? The games sell a couple million every time, with little-to-no degradation at all in sales (which is usually the best clue that they've done something wrong with a game, the next one sells worse), and they consistently review well, so again, why would they think something is amiss?

in response to "they should realize on their own that modern Sonic has problems"
 
FunkyMunkey said:
So I assume you make it your job to go into other topics, and explain to any irritated gamers there(who purchased the topics game and/or played the demo) who are displeased, that the game sells well, so their complaints fall on deaf ears of the devs?

The path goes:

1.) People go "Physics suck! Come on Dimps, fix this somehow!"
2.) You respond by saying the game sells well.

? It's an odd way to reply to complaints. I expect sale figures from you soon as more people play and complain about the issues.
No, that's not how the conversation went. The path went:

1) Someone said: I don't like this game! How could the developer not realize it's wrong without being told?
2) I respond by saying: Their games review well and sell well, how are they supposed to realize there's something wrong without being told?

If answering a question is an odd way to reply to a question, then I guess I'm Commander Odd-Fucking Duck. Hey, why don't you answer my question? If you're a developer, and you make a game, and it reviews well, and it sells well, how should you come to the realization that the game is not good?

Other things you're misattributing to me:
- that I somehow don't do this for other games (I do)
- that I'm saying don't complain, your complaints fall on deaf ears (my stance in this very conversation which you are interpreting with all the grace of a drunk mule is that it's very important that you *DO* complain because otherwise they are not going to know)
- that selling well alone is justification for not knowing your game is bad (i've very clearly stated that their games both sell well *and* review well)
- that I'm telling people to just shut up and take it (I've clearly told people that they should not support it if they don't like it)

If you aren't going to do me the basic respect of actually arguing my points instead of some Imaginary Segata Sanshiro that exists in your mind, then don't bother replying to me.
 

Big One

Banned
Cocopjojo said:
I hate to say it but whoever compared this to Mega Man 9 earlier in the thread said it right. MM9 is basically identical to the classic games but just with new stages. That's what should have been done here. I'd never played a single MM game after the first six, but I will have my wallet ready Day 1 for any more like 9 and 10 because they were fantastic. But unfortunately, this Sonic game isn't like that; it feels much different from the older games. So while I might buy the next episode to see what's changed or fixed, I definitely won't branch out anywhere else into the Sonic franchise because I don't feel like I've missed anything over the past fifteen years.
Pretty much agree for the most part.

I have a feeling most apologists here haven't actually touched the game.

I'm a fan of Advance series, both Rush games, and Unleashed (somewhat) and think they're all decent games but Sonic 4's physics fused with it's level design just doesn't work at all. People say it's just like Rush...and they're right, it is, but Rush had levels that specifically fit it's physics design. Sonic 4 does not and if it did it there would be even less reason to call it Sonic 4.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:

Maybe by listening to the fanbase? Which contains some people displeased here? I realize complaining on gaf is a waste of time in almost all cases, but you never know. And that's what these boards are for I guess.

But replying to confusion over the way this game turned out by saying they sell well adds nothing to the person's weight. It neither contradicts or contributes to the complaints.

I know where you're coming from in the sense of a capitalistic viewpoint, and I don't mean to reply all direct(not that it matters much to you anyways :p), but the guy who made the McDonalds analogy a tiny bit ago nailed it.
 
FunkyMunkey said:
Maybe by listening to the fanbase? Which contains some people displeased here? I realize complaining on gaf is a waste of time in almost all cases, but you never know. And that's what these boards are for I guess.

But replying to confusion over the way this game turned out by saying they sell well adds nothing to the person's weight. It neither contradicts or contributes to the complaints.

I know where you're coming from in the sense of a capitalistic viewpoint, and I don't mean to reply all direct(not that it matters much to you anyways :p), but the guy who made the McDonalds analogy a tiny bit ago nailed it.
Okay then! You agree with my position entirely that it is important for the fans to complain! Yeesh.
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Okay then! You agree with my position entirely that it is important for the fans to complain! Yeesh.

Wait wait wait, you're telling me this isn't sarcasm? As a reply to displeasure over the game?

Segata Sanshiro said:
They do need to be told about this. You know why? Because they put out games with these physics and they sell literal millions. They put out games with shitty friends and they sell literal millions. If fans don't tell them anything is wrong, and the sales are still spectacular, how are they supposed to know they aren't making people happy?

Honestly? Am I tripping? If I am I eat my words then and apologize, but yeah...

Segata Sanshiro said:
No, that wasn't sarcasm. That was meant to be taken completely straight. It wasn't a reply to his displeasure. It was a direct reply to his statement "they shouldn't need other people to tell them about this stuff".

Then I'll kindly take my forehead off of yours and choke on my words :lol. Thank you for the kind explanation. All I can say is I hope they fix the movement for the next episodes. Perfect physics and this would be worth the $15 definitely (and be close to the genesis games even though I do agree they should evolve beyond them). I wish it was 800pts so I would cave.
 
FunkyMunkey said:
Wait wait wait, you're telling me this isn't sarcasm? As a reply to displeasure over the game?

Honestly? Am I tripping?
No, that wasn't sarcasm. That was meant to be taken completely straight. It wasn't a reply to his displeasure. It was a direct reply to his statement "It depresses the shit out of me that they need to be told about this.".
 
FunkyMunkey said:
Wait wait wait, you're telling me this isn't sarcasm? As a reply to displeasure over the game?



Honestly? Am I tripping?

No you're not, that's what he (and to a much lesser extent I) have been trying to say all this time. If you hate the game then complain your arse off, because otherwise nothing will happen due to huge sales figures and good reviews (for the most part in Dimps' case, ST just milk the cow I think).
 
Dark Machine said:
No you're not, that's what he (and to a much lesser extent I) have been trying to say all this time. If you hate the game then complain your arse off, because otherwise nothing will happen due to huge sales figures and good reviews (for the most part in Dimps' case, ST just milk the cow I think).
Yeah, I'm pretty sure ST are content to coast on sales, even if the reviews are bad. They know they're making crap and they've shown very little desire to address it unless sales really nosedive the way Sonic 06 did.

Dimps on the other hand, and I think SEGA of America as well, really do care about making something good. Dimps just doesn't know there's anything wrong about things unless they get complaints, and SEGA of America is pretty much powerless to control Sonic Team. So SEGA of America throws the advice to SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan tells Sonic Team and Dimps, Iizuka laughs and throws it in the wastebasket, and Dimps try to reduce/cut out shitty friends and/or other things they hear about.
 

pmj

Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
If the fans say *nothing*, how are they to know they made a bad game?
Here is where where I disagree with you, or we don't understand each other.

I fully understand why they'd continue making sub-par games if that's where the money was (and it probably is!), but they should still know. They should know both as gamers and as developers.
Edit: Right, now you do say they know, so I guess we don't disagree on anything after all.

And if they had any intention of making a classic Sonic game (they probably didn't), they should know exactly how to make Sonic behave and how to design fun zones.

But it doesn't matter. I don't really have a point and I'm not really here to argue. What you said about this being a step in the right direction made me think, the thinking made me confused and annoyed and it resulted in a few posts. I need a break now.
 
What's with these awful feeling physics? Not too keen on Sonic's design or animation either... overall not impressed or very interested after the demo...
 

DonMigs85

Member
Sonic 2 was also the only Sonic game where I could actually make Sonic go so fast that he goes beyond the screen's boundary (mostly in Chemical Plant).
 
Segata Sanshiro said:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure ST are content to coast on sales, even if the reviews are bad. They know they're making crap and they've shown very little desire to address it unless sales really nosedive the way Sonic 06 did.

Dimps on the other hand, and I think SEGA of America as well, really do care about making something good. Dimps just doesn't know there's anything wrong about things unless they get complaints, and SEGA of America is pretty much powerless to control Sonic Team. So SEGA of America throws the advice to SEGA Japan, SEGA Japan tells Sonic Team and Dimps, Iizuka laughs and throws it in the wastebasket, and Dimps try to reduce/cut out shitty friends and/or other things they hear about.

Yeah SoA made STH2 didn't they? Brought Naka and a few of the senior staff over to do it while the rest stayed in Japan to make CD. There was a post way back when which quoted someone who worked for Sega close to ST who basically said the team was full of bored, disenfranchised and disillusioned workers who couldn't give a shit any more, and Iizuka, who's certifiable. It sounded a bit like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

SoA should just set up their own team and do it themselves, maybe that'd help the quality. Then again, if the relationship is anything like how Capcom JP and USA's one was, I doubt Sega will ever let it happen. That 'Colours' is actually looking promising is all the more surprising to me with this in mind, then again, it's basically the 'day' stages of unleashed with some powerups stolen from Mario Galaxy, let's be honest.
 
pmj said:
Here is where where I disagree with you, or we don't understand each other.

I fully understand why they'd continue making sub-par games if that's where the money was (and it probably is!), but they should still know. They should know both as gamers and as developers.

And if they had any intention of making a classic Sonic game (they probably didn't), they should know exactly how to make Sonic behave and how to design fun zones.

But it doesn't matter. I don't really have a point and I'm not really here to argue. What you said about this being a step in the right direction made me think, the thinking made me confused and annoyed and it resulted in a few posts. I need a break now.
Ehn. To me, if I'm a developer, and I put out a game, and it reviews well, and sells well, in the absence of fan feedback, I'm going to go ahead and assume I made a good game.

You're right, though, I doubt they originally planned this game with the intention of making a classic Sonic so much as they planned to make it a closer-to-classic Sonic. SEGA probably told them everyone was complaining about the speed boosting and the shitty friends and wanted a game more like the old ones, Dimps did their thing, and SEGA marketing did their thing.

I am never going to defend SEGA naming the game Sonic 4. It was free money at the expense of goodwill. It was a shitty thing to do to the Classic Hog fans. Really short-term thinking there. But I don't think that was Dimps' choice or fault. They're listening. Keep making noise, and please make sure you're writing letters to SEGA politely and clearly detailing why you're unhappy with the game. They listen. They're surprisingly one of the more receptive publishers that way.
 
i don't have any major love for the classic sonic's so i went in trying the demo with an open mind and thought it was shit.

sonic feels way too floaty. if jumping felt crisper it would go a long way to changing my mind about the game.
 

elektrixx

Banned
Here's what I think.

I've only played up to the first boss, but I already think it's the best 2D Sonic. The homing attack is the best thing to happen to the game because it keeps the game moving. The old games sucked because as soon as you went fast you ran into stuff that you couldn't dodge in time. This homing attack thing helps to maintain the fast pace of Sonic; something that in my opinion never happened in the original games unless you memorised every little thing.

Who's with me?!
Nobody!

Just for some backgound, I hated Sonic until the Sonic Adventure series, then dropped off again until now.
 
They're listening.

That's clearly total fucking rubbish because fans have been saying the exact same shit for over a decade. They're either not listening or they're truly inept, and I imagine it's a bit of both.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
elektrixx said:
Here's what I think.

I've only played up to the first boss, but I already think it's the best 2D Sonic. The homing attack is the best thing to happen to the game because it keeps the game moving. The old games sucked because as soon as you went fast you ran into stuff that you couldn't dodge in time. This homing attack thing helps to maintain the fast pace of Sonic; something that in my opinion never happened in the original games unless you memorised every little thing.

Who's with me?!
Nobody!

Just for some backgound, I hated Sonic until the Sonic Adventure series, then dropped off again until now.

Your post makes me depressed.
 
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