riceandbeans
Member
Iknos said:
If they want to make it easier to scale and stay on loops and ramps, that's fine but the spindash and ball stills feels off.
SONIC THE HEDGEHOG 4 or AGAINST |OT| of Huelen in Green-Eyed Heaven
- Thread starter WillyFive
- Start date
If they want to make it easier to scale and stay on loops and ramps, that's fine but the spindash and ball stills feels off.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Gravijah said:
Thank you.
And I guess that means Castlevania 4 isn't Castlevania, with it's arc-less jumping and moonwalking up stairs.
milkyjay20
Member
super mario world has dramatically different physics from the NES games, so uh... let that enter into the debate!!!!!
edit: fuck too late. i blame the 56k
edit: fuck too late. i blame the 56k
The Abominable Snowman
Member
There were many times during the Casino level where the new physics caused me to die. Primarily the fact that you can barely move when jumping and after a regular jump Sonic now free falls where he would have usually kept in a ball in other games. The second bit was extremely aggravating during the Casino boss.FrostuTheNinja said:
and for some reason if you launch off a spring and don't hold the direction the spring directs you to (Or sometimes if you DO hold the direction) you will land in the wrong area, often resulting in death by freefall.
The Air Dash is also aggravating when there are two enemies beside you, and it autocorrects to the spike ball on the right instead of the blue floating thing closer to you (First Mine level) Or when youre going from Spring to Spring and instead of autocorrecting you to the next spring it autocorrects you to the same one and you fall to your death.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I think it was the Sonic->Mario topic, Andrex and I were getting into kind of a Mario vs. Sonic thing. Then he got banned....Teknoman said:
Segata Sanshiro
Member
To be fair, it's not hard to get his intended implication.Gravijah said:
milkyjay20
Member
andymcc said:
seriously. 8-way whip? zzzzzzz i can play it blindfolded. still a great game tho
anyway, a question about sonic 4's physics. okay, so it's not exactly like the old games, but judging its physics on their own merits, are they still fun?
FrostuTheNinja
Member
The Abominable Snowman said:
Can't help you there.
I didn't have any real problems with the games physics other than "getting" the whole homing attack/dash mechanic. It really sucks that so many people seem to be having problems with it.
I think it was asked earlier, but how many people are using analog over the d-pad? I mean, I haven't even tried using the analog at all and the game has been aces for me.
Edit:
andymcc said:
I'm in the minority that thinks Rondo is the best in the series followed by that recent Rebirth title. Damn, I had a great time with that game. Soooo, my opinion is pretty much despised.
milkyjay20
Member
Gravijah said:
nope, it's a disgrace. i just moved, so slow internet is better than no internet. i miss avgn and porn terribly... you just don't know how slow 56k really is until you've used it in 2010. i've got solitaire loaded up at the bottom for when i'm trying to load something :lol
FrostuTheNinja
Member
milkyjay20 said:
Hahahah! That's one of the most terribly heartbreaking and hilarious things I've read in awhile. I remember going to my parents place years ago and they were still using a local dial up company. Terrible, terrible shit. I feel for you.
Yeah, and as Gravijah said, if you can, try a demo of Sonic 4. It very much seems to be hit or miss.
milkyjay20 said:
oh ok well i found this 11 minute long youtube video for you to watch on sonics physics
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-1cGzPn3E
should only take a few hours to load
Checked out the demo, didn't even finish it. My main problem was with the movement/physics. Feels like it takes too long to get moving and he looks weird while building up speed, looks like he's gliding. Other thing that kept bugging me was that movement in mid-air felt weird, there didn't feel like there was any good momentum, you could change direction easily but it feels really awkward.
As someone who only played Sonic 1/2 back in the day, and went through 3 and S&K for the first time earlier this year, even I don't think it feels right. Visually and audio-wise it just comes off as shallow, feels like someone trying to visually upgrade and remake something where no one who did the original was even still alive. I also have to agree with the sentiments I'm seeing though that I don't know that they could really do a 2D sonic at this point that would live up to expectations. I think they could have done a hell of a lot better than this, but I think at this point anything they could possibly put out would still not be good enough for some people. Ultimately this was not fun at all though, and breaking it up into $15 chunks is pretty disgusting.
As someone who only played Sonic 1/2 back in the day, and went through 3 and S&K for the first time earlier this year, even I don't think it feels right. Visually and audio-wise it just comes off as shallow, feels like someone trying to visually upgrade and remake something where no one who did the original was even still alive. I also have to agree with the sentiments I'm seeing though that I don't know that they could really do a 2D sonic at this point that would live up to expectations. I think they could have done a hell of a lot better than this, but I think at this point anything they could possibly put out would still not be good enough for some people. Ultimately this was not fun at all though, and breaking it up into $15 chunks is pretty disgusting.
milkyjay20
Member
FrostuTheNinja said:
my grandma--who's not that old, mind you--still uses 56k AND aol :lol which is ironic considering that she was the first on the scene with a computer and the internet in my family, back when i thought the internet was a virtual town complete with graphics.
and about trying sonic 4... well, i lent my cousin the xbox. so i've got a bunch of ancient games to play coupled with an ancient internet, so needless to say, i've rediscovered the joy of reading.
oh and thanks gravijah
In other words, the homing dash improves the experience to such a degree that it's worth making compensations in other areas for. Sonic 4 has its faults, but in my view this is one change that's been made for the better.I AM JOHN! said:
Of course, I doubt I'm in the majority here.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Gravijah said:
Pretty much what's going on with this game.
smh
Well reading all these impressions has been interesting :lol
When I have access to my Wii again, I'm going to give this a really good go. The promise of supposedly great level design is luring me in to try and get used to the new physics. Though I still don't understand why they took out many aspects of the momentum...it kinda sucks in a way as I use a lot of the benefits that brings when replaying the MD games so I can speed through them (something I weirdly get a kick out of when replaying any game; I was wall jumping like a right nutter on a Super Metroid replay).
But still, I'm confident I can enjoy this, speaking as a huge old school Sonic fan. Sometimes you have to go into a game like this realizing first impressions aren't going to be top notch. And heck I seem to be among the few who liked Advance 3 anyway, so I'll enjoy it to *some* extent.
Oh, not to mention; 2>1>CD>& Knuckles>3
If I change that to include 3 & Knuckles instead of the two separately...that probably makes it and CD interchangeable for me. 2 is still king in my book
When I have access to my Wii again, I'm going to give this a really good go. The promise of supposedly great level design is luring me in to try and get used to the new physics. Though I still don't understand why they took out many aspects of the momentum...it kinda sucks in a way as I use a lot of the benefits that brings when replaying the MD games so I can speed through them (something I weirdly get a kick out of when replaying any game; I was wall jumping like a right nutter on a Super Metroid replay).
But still, I'm confident I can enjoy this, speaking as a huge old school Sonic fan. Sometimes you have to go into a game like this realizing first impressions aren't going to be top notch. And heck I seem to be among the few who liked Advance 3 anyway, so I'll enjoy it to *some* extent.
Oh, not to mention; 2>1>CD>& Knuckles>3
If I change that to include 3 & Knuckles instead of the two separately...that probably makes it and CD interchangeable for me. 2 is still king in my book
RubyEclipse said this on Sonic Retro's forums:
"I've posted this a few times, but it's too early to say regarding the physics for Episode II. The feedback we've seen from many fans is something I'll be taking with me when we begin to discuss the game soon, but I'll make sure it is at least heard and taken into consideration."
"I've posted this a few times, but it's too early to say regarding the physics for Episode II. The feedback we've seen from many fans is something I'll be taking with me when we begin to discuss the game soon, but I'll make sure it is at least heard and taken into consideration."
FrostuTheNinja
Member
RagnarokX said:
PR speak for, "It's not going to happen"?
milkyjay20
Member
Jazzem said:
how come 3 and knuckles are at the bottom?
and since you're listing, well, i can't resist.
1. sonic 3 and knuckles - i hate using the word epic, but putting the two games together makes it so. in my eyes, the games don't exist unless they are together. it's long, but with perfect pacing; levels with platforming and levels that you fly through are placed right where they should be. exquisite backgrounds, and sonic and his shitty friends have never looked as good before or since. awesome music.
2. sonic 2 - terrific. i don't know what else to say.
3. sonic cd - like someone said earlier, the levels were designed by a lunatic. grating music and sound effects. awesome special levels.
4. sonic 1 - fucking water levels
Segata Sanshiro
Member
The critical error guys like this make is in assuming that people who like the Dimps Sonic games don't realize there's a difference in the physics. We know there's a difference, guys. You're not some kind of geniuses among humanity that need to explain it to the proles. We just don't care.Gravijah said:
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Teknoman said:
The Japanese version.
Yeah, I went there.
Edit: Beaten... AGAIN!
Segata Sanshiro said:
Thread title should be changed to, "Real Sega fans, just don't care"
milkyjay20 said:
I dunno...
To be honest & Knuckles and CD might be interchangeable. Unless I prefer any instalment by a significant amount (2 in my case), I'm not too good at 'measuring' where each game in a ranking should go.But I'm not quite as fond of 3 & Knuckles. That's not to say I don't wub 'em and all that jazz, but there's something almost intangible about the style of 1 and 2 that I prefer, plus I feel they're more consistent games (though I'll admit 1 dips a little here and there, sure has weird pacing). Oh and 3 has that blasted awful carnival zone theme
Why does that song not get more hate; it's terrible, gaah! [/petty]Regarding you not liking the music of CD...is that the JPN or US soundtrack? I'm only really familiar with the latter but I absolutely love it myself...each to their own.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
No no no, don't pull that 'real fans' thing, please. The guys who like the classic physics have just as valid a viewpoint as anyone's. The only thing some of them are guilty of is the all too common trait of not understanding the point of view of others.FrostuTheNinja said:
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Jokes man, jokes.
Just trying to be "Hip and Ironic" like kids these days, or some such crap.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
Oh my god Mad Gear Act 3 was TEETH GRATING.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
I like jokes too, but they should be funny. 'Real fans' is just a match getting tossed into a shed full of gunpowder.FrostuTheNinja said:
Which in Sonic 4, would result in a body flying six inches and then coming to a complete mid-air halt.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Segata Sanshiro said:
Point taken. Ninja Edit: You know, "Sega fans..." would've sounded better and not as pretentious. Thanks for the lesson.
Unless you were holding right.
Heh, JP Sonic CD sounds closer to what i'd expect in a Sonic game:
Tidal Tempest: Present
Collision Chaos: Good future
Special stage (which really fits the style/pace of the stage)
Collision Chaos: Present
Boss theme not sure why, but I just really like this and the Sonic 3 MJ boss theme.
EDIT: :lol no bait, just wanted to see, especially since I missed out on a few 3d blast genesis tracks that were kinda cool.
Tidal Tempest: Present
Collision Chaos: Good future
Special stage (which really fits the style/pace of the stage)
Collision Chaos: Present
Boss theme not sure why, but I just really like this and the Sonic 3 MJ boss theme.
EDIT: :lol no bait, just wanted to see, especially since I missed out on a few 3d blast genesis tracks that were kinda cool.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
Actually, he's explaining why the old games feel good to play, because of the momentum and movement mechanics.
Then he explains, in detail, why this game feels off.
The fact that the old sonics even exist does nothing to worsen the way this game plays or feels. He's not going "it should play like this!", just showing why they become classic games, and why this game never will. Even looking at the games as independent existences.
milkyjay20
Member
Jazzem said:
i know exactly what you mean. sonic 1 and 2 is clean and bold, while sonic 3 and knuckles is more organic, yet "dirty" at the same time.
Oh and 3 has that blasted awful carnival zone theme
your guess is as good as mine, it sounds unbearable. that music mixed with that damn barrel :lol
US. i'm stupid when it comes to imports, so i've never played the JPN version.
milkyjay20 said:
Hmm, I guess that's a good way of putting it, though there's still a bit of grittiness to the earlier games on certain zones. They're two different and very recognizable styles, but the former just clicks with me moreso, and it's what I think of when I think of Sonic. I don't mean to put down 3&Knuckles too much though. Ice Cap and Flying Battery man
milkyjay20 said:
Haha, I'm a victim of the barrel myself
I got so close to perfecting a jumping technique to make it go down far enough...but I could never quite get enough room to jump off at the bottom. Grr >:|Aside from initial barrel woes and the blah music (can we start a hate club on that?
), I actually quite like the zone. Though those floating platforms with the red bulbuous underside always freak me out a bit...Cataferal said:
Hold on there; only the first game on the Mega Drive had the music slowed down for the PAL version. 2 onwards had the correct music tempo. How did you hear a slow version of a Sonic 3 tune?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
That sounds a wee bit like a subjective opinion masquerading as an objective one.FunkyMunkey said:
To say nothing of the fact that it's aside from my point and contrary to what the guy in the video himself said. It's very clear he feels that people who don't care about the different physics only don't care because they don't know, and that if he somehow just shows them they are different, then the lightbulb will come on and they'll realize that game they're having fun with is crap after all. It's also very clear he feels Sonic 4 should play like the old Sonic games.
milkyjay20
Member
Jazzem said:(can we start a hate club on that?
sign me up.
and that barrel, it's made even worse with tails screwing up the jumping. i recently discovered the easy way to get past it; just move your thumb around the d-pad in a circle. lol ~_~
FrostuTheNinja
Member
I've been reading the words "feel" and "feelings" a lot in this thread...
Gravijah said:
I see your point...
Consider that most people agreed that Mario 2 was so different than Mario 1 that its as if Nintendo replaced sprites from a totally different title to Mario sprites.
The fundamentals are the same. Mario still can't walk up walls in those games.
Nintendo has been good at renaming the Mario games based on the key differences in gameplay. Mario Sunshine was called that for good reason. Miyamoto introduced some new concepts built on Mario 64 but the end result was very different so the renaming made sense. So much from Mario 64 was still there but they were smart in not implying a direct sequel.
Sonic 4 breaks the fundamentals from the classic Sonics. Each Sonic game added something new but there is too much different here. One thing is game breaking and takes away from the platforming.
Accessibility is great but you aren't going to expect a company like Nintendo release a "Super Mario Bros. 4" that doesn't live up to the previous games in terms of controls and challenge. New powerups and abilities can work but there won't be anything like a win button or auto-attack.
Can't imagine a 2D Mario game with an auto-attack. It would break the game for me. Same idea applies here.
Just trying to explain why people are disappointed here. Had Sonic 4 been a spin off game based on one of his friends it might have made sense. It would explain why he runs and jumps weird and has a homing attack. Expectations would be different and people would see past these big differences and try to have fun with it.
But that wouldn't sell...so Sega had to slap on the name "Sonic 4".
FunkyMunkey
Banned
Segata Sanshiro said:
Ehhh, like I said, he's showing the physics for what they are. Plain and simple.
If you don't see how stopping in midair feels wrong for many people, regardless of past experience with sonic games, then I don't know what to tell you. It's not really their fault we were all born in a universe that doesn't function like that.
If I drove off a cliff in a car and let off the gas, and stopped in midair, this game would feel great.
And if I threw a ball down a slope, and it stopped, etc. Not the way physics work, though
.His video was comprehensive.
FrostuTheNinja
Member
Iknos said:
Even if the game was called, "Sonic Without His Shitty Friends" it would still sell like gangbusters. I said it in an older thread, kids love Sonic. I couldn't tell you why,(I think it has to do with that Sonic X cartoon on a few years back)but he is. He has shirts at Wal-Mart and Target.
Also, NSMBWii has an autoplay option. Which in theory, is game breaking.
FunkyMunkey said:
Are we really bringing in "reality" to a game that stars a blue hedgehog that runs at super sonic speeds, who collects emeralds to defeat an egg shaped mad scientist?