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[The Abominable Snowman]

Welp.. beat the game, beat all Robotnik forms. Didn't get Super Sonic.. so I probably should to unlock the 'true' ending.. but I don't really feel a motivation to, and I kind of dislike the special levels, as easy as they are.

This game is definitely worth it at a lower price. I felt as if I was cheated (Even though I got a 1200 points card for free). Wonky physics and sometimes embarrassing level design decisions mar what could have been a great game. Shame too, since I saw some great examples of level design here and there.

Any questions?

 

[Cataferal]

Hold on there; only the first game on the Mega Drive had the music slowed down for the PAL version. 2 onwards had the correct music tempo. How did you hear a slow version of a Sonic 3 tune?

Ah, sorry - I'll take your word for it. It's been about a decade since I last played 3&K.

I'd seen the comparison between PAL and NTSC versions of Sonic 1 on youtube and thought it must've applied to the others.

But that would've been a monstrosity if it were the case. Gosh...

Any questions?

Yes. Do you think you can beat those special levels? They're not as easy as they seem, trust me.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Are we really bringing in "reality" to a game that stars a blue hedgehog that runs at super sonic speeds, who collects emeralds to defeat an egg shaped mad scientist?

? What.

If a game has sloppy controls and physics, it's because it's just a game, now? And complaining about them is being too realistic?

Wtf??

 

[The Chosen One]

I have an acute taste when it comes to Sonic games. Not only have I played all the major sonic games, but I've also played the obscure spin-offs like knuckles Chaotix.

Anyway, I played the trial today and the Sonic definitely feels a bit sluggish compared to the original Sonic games. In Sonic 4, the acceleration feels slower and it seems harder to reach "blast processing" speed. As others pointed out, the mid-air movement also feels weird compared to the originals. I booted up Sonic 2 on Xbox Live immediately afterward and Sonic 4 definitely felt different.

That said, after playing the demo level 3-4 times, once I started playing it the "Sonic 4" way, I was able to reach the top speed easier and the game became more fun.

The demo should have done a better job of providing a sense of speed. Sonic is about being able to breeze through 50-75% of the level (at least the early ones) at breakneck roller-coaster speeds. In the original games, the first couple of Acts were designed so the player could just blaze through the level with little effort. Whereas the demo level in Sonic 4 feels more like a regular platform game or a latter Sonic stage. I think that's why I a lot of older Sonic fans are complaining. They want to be a speed demon through the first level but Sonic 4 won't let them.

I'm still probably going to download the full game at some point.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Ehhh, like I said, he's showing the physics for what they are. Plain and simple.

If you don't see how stopping in midair feels wrong for many people, regardless of past experience with sonic games, then I don't know what to tell you. It's not really their fault we were all born in a universe that doesn't function like that.

If I drove off a cliff in a car and let off the gas, and stopped in midair, this game would feel great.

And if I threw a ball down a slope, and it stopped, etc. Not the way physics work, though .

His video was comprehensive.

Hedgehogs are not perfect spheres and thus even if they were to roll down a hill curled up, the friction and lack of aerodynamics would result in the hedgehog stopping before it reached the bottom. In the real world, that is. Also, hedgehogs don't wear sneakers. And a fox would likely eat a hedgehog instead of building planes and chumming around with it.

But again, it's aside from my point. If a person is enjoying the game, showing them how the physics are different is not going to change their opinion. That is what he was trying to do. That is what I was commenting on. You're responding to a make-believe Segata again.

I'll give you one more swing and then I'll just tell you to have a great summer, fella.

(I agree his video was comprehensive. Someone should send it to Dimps.)

 

[Iknos]

Hedgehogs are not perfect spheres and thus even if they were to roll down a hill curled up, the friction and lack of aerodynamics would result in the hedgehog stopping before it reached the bottom. In the real world, that is. Also, hedgehogs don't wear sneakers. And a fox would likely eat a hedgehog instead of building planes and chumming around with it.

This is telling.

What made Sonic's movement so great was that they made sense. So it made sense when you ran so fast that you could go up a wall.

His point is that the classic games were largely based on physics that made sense while Sonic 4 doesn't.

All that garbage you wrote doesn't address his point.

If a person is enjoying the game, showing them how the physics are different is not going to change their opinion.

It's not about enjoyment its about calling a spade a spade. You can enjoy bashing your balls with a hammer but I'll be the first to tell you that what your doing is not mastrubation.

 

[Vipershark]

Sonic CD really isn't as good as everyone says it is. It's got some nice elements, but it's got funky physics, weird level design, and hunting out robot generator locations without a guide is kind of boring because they're always hidden in some really nasty places.

It's still a great game, mind you, but not the gold standard everyone claims.

I haven't gotten my opinion on Sonic 4 out yet but I've been reading through the thread and I'm glad that there's actually somebody else with some sense in here.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

I wonder what kind of discussion would ensue if a Dai Makaimura game was released that removed the games typical uncancellable jump arc. Similar to what CV4 did and was met with mighty praise.

Edit:

? What.

If a game has sloppy controls and physics, it's because it's just a game, now? And complaining about them is being too realistic?

I was referencing your "car over cliff" comment.

Sonic cd engrish > sonic cd jp

Also for those on the fence: did you find sonic rush fun? Like enjoyable in some shape or form. You will probably like sonic 4. Are you a die hard sonic fan from birth and refuse anything but a carbon copy of the genesis days? You will never be happy. Find a new mascot to worship.

<3

 

[.la1n]

Sonic cd engrish > sonic cd jp

Also for those on the fence: did you find sonic rush fun? Like enjoyable in some shape or form. You will probably like sonic 4. Are you a die hard sonic fan from birth and refuse anything but a carbon copy of the genesis days? You will never be happy. Find a new mascot to worship.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Yes. Do you think you can beat those special levels? They're not as easy as they seem, trust me.

I only did three, so I guess I'm already a third of the way there, but it's not very fun. The maze-navigation was always my least favorite special stage design, but Sonic 3 had a decent enough evolution of it. I guess my Sonic experience ruined it for me, although I was trying my damnedest to NOT think of Sonic 4 as a Sonic game.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Hedgehogs are not perfect spheres and thus even if they were to roll down a hill curled up, the friction and lack of aerodynamics would result in the hedgehog stopping before it reached the bottom. In the real world, that is. Also, hedgehogs don't wear sneakers. And a fox would likely eat a hedgehog instead of building planes and chumming around with it.

But again, it's aside from my point. If a person is enjoying the game, showing them how the physics are different is not going to change their opinion. That is what he was trying to do. That is what I was commenting on. You're responding to a make-believe Segata again.

I'll give you one more swing and then I'll just tell you to have a great summer, fella.

(I agree his video was comprehensive. Someone should send it to Dimps.)

He's just explaining that, for a platformer that relies on speed, having the physics like this feels strange for many people. So would mario(3d or 2d) if it behaved like this, so would many other games.

And by comparing a basic reality such as movement and gravity, to foxes and hedgehogs fighting... what?

You made an appeal to reality in your argument. The fox and hedgehog thing was just me being silly. But I was being honest about the rolled up hedgehog thing. He would definitely have some drag in the real world!

Hahaha yeah it would. I guess it would just feel smoother without friction/drag( the rare and delicious shiny hedgehogs).

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

He's just explaining that, for a platformer that relies on speed, having the physics like this feels strange for many people. So would mario(3d or 2d) if it behaved like this, so would many other games.

And by comparing a basic reality such as movement and gravity, to foxes and hedgehogs fighting... what?

You made an appeal to reality in your argument. The fox and hedgehog thing was just me being silly. But I was being honest about the rolled up hedgehog thing. He would definitely have some drag in the real world!

 

[Teknoman]

Posting some videos in abit.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

And by comparing a basic reality such as movement and gravity, to foxes and hedgehogs fighting... what?

It's like people who bitch about specific scenes in movies.

Wolverine for example. I remember reading comments about how when he was walking away from the helicopter as it was exploding, people would say things like, "OMG The concussion would totally knock him down! Movie is so unrealistic!"

My initial thought was that you're watching a movie with a guy who has claws that come out of his hands, fights other mutants, his body heals in a rapid fashion and you're complaint is that he didn't get knocked over by an explosion?

I think it's called versimilitude.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Again, I want to make the qualifier that it's totally understandable and okay that you want the original (quite realistic for its time) physics model. It's part of what made Sonic unique, after all.

All I'm saying is that it's also okay if you don't.

 

[Teknoman]

Splash Hill Zone Act 2

Swinging around on the vines is alot easier than people made it out to be early on. Kinda fun too.

 

[FrostuTheNinja]

Splash Hill Zone Act 2

Swinging around on the vines is alot easier than people made it out to be early on. Kinda fun too.

Great video. I need to get in on the speed runs for this game.

 

[Dark Octave]

I'm still playing the demo and getting used to the changes made.

It's not perfect but this is the best Sonic has been in years.

I just hate holing "right" to maintain momentum when I can and do get bounced around in multiple directions. And abrupt stops in the middle of a loop make no sense what so ever. But everything else is ok.

Get it or don't get it?

 

[Teknoman]

I'm still playing the demo and getting used to the changes made.

It's not perfect but this is the best Sonic has been in years.

I just hate holing "right" to maintain momentum when I can and do get bounced around in multiple directions. And abrupt stops in the middle of a loop make no sense what so ever. But everything else is ok.

Get it or don't get it?

I'll post two more zone videos, if you like what you see, go for it.

 

[Deleted member 21120]

Playing Sonic 2 right now and man he feels nimble. It really makes Sonic 4 feel like he's in a bowl of molasses.

 

[The Chosen One]

Splash Hill Zone Act 2

Swinging around on the vines is alot easier than people made it out to be early on. Kinda fun too.

Nice video, but this is what I'm talking about. You don't ever really go "fast" in the classic Sonic sense.

As a reminder, this is what "fast" is like in Sonic 2 in Emerald Hill zone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMDQtpw-_CY

 

[Teknoman]

Yeah, was bouncing back and forth between Sonic 4 and the classic on Genesis collection. Sonic in Sonic 2 and 3/k had the perfect rate of acceleration.

 

[IrishNinja]

This is telling.

It's not about enjoyment

.

 

[RobbieNick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nDRsjiXiMo

Well haters, I still love the game, but at least I can see where you're coming from now. Consider this a peace offering. I'm gonna hold back a bit more.

BTW, Kane and Kynch 2 is a full $60 game that may be shorter than Sonic 4!!:lol

 

[Aaron Strife]

Speaking of Splash Hill 2, I got my time for it down to about 43 seconds. Yeah boy.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

The more I play Sonic 4, the more frustrated with it I'm becoming. I'm currently trying to get the "complete Splash Hill Act 1 in under a minute" achievement.

It's got the same shitty, poorly-conceived enemy placement of "If the player doesn't come through this area just the right way, he's going to run in to something that will damage him" that dominated the Sonic Advance and Sonic Rush games.

The homing attack seems to mess me up more often than it does help me.

This is, of course, after coming off of spending the last hour trying to get more chaos emeralds. Sonic 4 may just have the worst, most aggravating special stages in any Sonic game I can remember playing.

My review should hopefully be up tomorrow, but if you can't already assume it by the tone of this post, I'm not too pleased by the game at all.

 

[Teknoman]

With the homing attack, its actually more about waiting than speed. Dont try to home in on an enemy too quickly and you should be fine. Also try and take the high route.

Mad Gear Zone Act 1

 

[autobzooty]

Okay, I vowed to stay out of Sonic threads for the rest of my life, but I had to come back to say this.

I caved and bought Sonic 4. And it is one of the worst games I've played in years. Got to Casino Zone Act 1 before I rage quit the shittin' thing.

Fucking Super Mario Bros. had more momentum based platforming than this shit. Sonic comes to a dead halt as soon as you take your finger off the d-pad, and even if you're in the air, he just drops straight down to the ground if you're not holding right at all times.

The range on the homing attack is the craziest thing I've ever seen. It will lock onto an enemy really far away sometimes, and other times you barely have time to do it before you're out of range. More than once I plummeted to a bottomless pit because I reacted too late to the homing attack icon and my stupid ass went careening into nothingness. (By the way, bottomless pits are the fucking worst even in GOOD Sonic games, not sure why SEGA thought it would be a good idea to bring them back in Zone 1 for fuck's sake.)

It takes a thousand hours to get Sonic up to speed if you just run, and if you use a homing attack, you're likely to lock onto one of the many billions of things you can home into and go careening out of control, so you can't use that to pick up speed either. Even the fucking spin dash is useless because you still have to hold forward or else you'll lose speed. Also, why does Sonic pop out of the spin ball after a short time? Makes it even more useless. You don't gain extra momentum with it, you still have to hold forward, and it only lasts for a brief time. Why would a person ever use this move?

After flying through the air into enemies that hurt me because I wasn't spamming homing attack at all times, swinging on vines that seem to be made out of krazy glue for all the momentum they give you, coming to a dead halt more times than you ever should in a Sonic game (i.e., more than 0), I thought that the game couldn't get any worse. But then a pinball spring launcher shot me into a ramp, which then caused the physics engine make Sonic do a 180 and fall right back into the spring. I shut my PS3 off then.

I knew the game wouldn't be anything like the classic Sonic games. I had come to terms with that. But I thought I could enjoy it as Sonic Advance 4. But this game can't even be appreciated on that level. I honestly don't see how anyone could find this fun. This game is busted, straight up. I can't believe the new standards for garbage that Sonic Team continue to set, but damn. Hats off to em.

 

[Teknoman]

Really, all this not holding forward stuff is news to me. The only time i've never held forward (relative to the way I was facing) in a Sonic game was:

• When there were lots of small platforms spaced out.
• When there was a chance that spikes would pop out, and I wouldnt be able to jump over them in enough time.
• When I know enemies with shields/spikes were around.

Its definitely not required in the classics, but I never stopped holding forward while in a jump or while rolling down a hill/spin dashing into stuff, so I guess I never noticed.

 

[The Chosen One]

Please tell me this isn't an actual Sonic Team game? This is a farmed out game right?

I refuse to believe Yuji Naka and Sonic Team would forget how to do just the basic physics of Sonic.

Sonic 4 feels like a beta game and not a finished product.

They would have been better off not calling this Sonic 4. But I guess if they didn't, no one would pay attention to the game. I really hope in episode 2 the physics are fixed and the sense of speed is greatly improved.

 

[Yoshi]

Yuji Naka isn't with Sonic Team anymore, he has his own studio now, Prope. The game itself is developed by Dimps iirc.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Yuji Naka isn't with Sonic Team anymore, he has his own studio now, Prope. The game itself is developed by Dimps iirc.

Developed by Dimps, with help from Sonic Team, I think

 

[CurseoftheGods]

I started playing the PSN version. I hate Sonic's acceleration in this game, but I really dig the level design.

Is it just me or does Sonic move faster in the iPhone version?

 

[The Chosen One]

Yuji Naka isn't with Sonic Team anymore, he has his own studio now, Prope. The game itself is developed by Dimps iirc.

Figures.

It feels as if the developers are young and the first Sonic game they played was Sonic Adventure.

But heck, even Sonic Adventure 2 had levels with breakneck speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG3sFkLuQCU

Those who have bought the full version of Sonic 4, do the latter zones have acts where you go insanely fast?

 

[Combichristoffersen]

Those who have bought the full version of Sonic 4, do the latter zones have acts where you go insanely fast?

No, not really.

 

[Pietepiet]

Figures.

It feels as if the developers are young and the first Sonic game they played was Sonic Adventure.

What? Dimps made a perfectly fine "Genesis Sonic" with Sonic Pocket Adventure.

 

[The Chosen One]

What? Dimps made a perfectly fine "Genesis Sonic" with Sonic Pocket Adventure.

Then I don't know. It's just strange that they would screw up the basic elements of a Sonic side-scroller.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Figures.

It feels as if the developers are young and the first Sonic game they played was Sonic Adventure.

But heck, even Sonic Adventure 2 had levels with breakneck speed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG3sFkLuQCU

Those who have bought the full version of Sonic 4, do the latter zones have acts where you go insanely fast?

They're a pretty big company, and they've been around for ten years. They've made a ton of 2D Sonic games. They definitely make a different kind of Sonic from Sonic Team, though.

 

[Juicy Bob]

I started playing the PSN version. I hate Sonic's acceleration in this game, but I really dig the level design.

Pretty much exactly what I'm doing and thinking as well. I'm actually really enjoying it and haven't regretted my purchase once. I love how they've intervened in the original Special Stage design. I'm looking forward to more original level cliches in the next episodes instead of blatant copies of Sonic 2 Zones but other than that, having lots of fun with this.

 

[Stat Flow]

My review should hopefully be up tomorrow, but if you can't already assume it by the tone of this post, I'm not too pleased by the game at all.

So an added frame for 2010 in your avatar? :lol

 

[Veins]

Okay, I vowed to stay out of Sonic threads for the rest of my life, but I had to come back to say this.

I caved and bought Sonic 4. And it is one of the worst games I've played in years. Got to Casino Zone Act 1 before I rage quit the shittin' thing.

Fucking Super Mario Bros. had more momentum based platforming than this shit. Sonic comes to a dead halt as soon as you take your finger off the d-pad, and even if you're in the air, he just drops straight down to the ground if you're not holding right at all times.

The range on the homing attack is the craziest thing I've ever seen. It will lock onto an enemy really far away sometimes, and other times you barely have time to do it before you're out of range. More than once I plummeted to a bottomless pit because I reacted too late to the homing attack icon and my stupid ass went careening into nothingness. (By the way, bottomless pits are the fucking worst even in GOOD Sonic games, not sure why SEGA thought it would be a good idea to bring them back in Zone 1 for fuck's sake.)

It takes a thousand hours to get Sonic up to speed if you just run, and if you use a homing attack, you're likely to lock onto one of the many billions of things you can home into and go careening out of control, so you can't use that to pick up speed either. Even the fucking spin dash is useless because you still have to hold forward or else you'll lose speed. Also, why does Sonic pop out of the spin ball after a short time? Makes it even more useless. You don't gain extra momentum with it, you still have to hold forward, and it only lasts for a brief time. Why would a person ever use this move?

After flying through the air into enemies that hurt me because I wasn't spamming homing attack at all times, swinging on vines that seem to be made out of krazy glue for all the momentum they give you, coming to a dead halt more times than you ever should in a Sonic game (i.e., more than 0), I thought that the game couldn't get any worse. But then a pinball spring launcher shot me into a ramp, which then caused the physics engine make Sonic do a 180 and fall right back into the spring. I shut my PS3 off then.

I knew the game wouldn't be anything like the classic Sonic games. I had come to terms with that. But I thought I could enjoy it as Sonic Advance 4. But this game can't even be appreciated on that level. I honestly don't see how anyone could find this fun. This game is busted, straight up. I can't believe the new standards for garbage that Sonic Team continue to set, but damn. Hats off to em.

Exactly what my thoughts have been after watching videos. I'm glad to know that they are accurate after playing the game and I can bury any thoughts of buying this.

 

[BlazeHedgehog]

So an added frame for 2010 in your avatar? :lol

If I change my avatar it's probably going to be something complete new.

 

[MarshMellow96]

It plays and looks like a bad fan remake. Shocking.

 

[hank_tree]

I finished this on Wednesday night and I thought it was pretty good. Not as good as the originals or anything but still pretty fun. Definitely a step up from Unleashed.

 

[Suzuki Yu]

i got the untouchable achievement

 

[accolade]

I'm sorry, what? You can't be serious. All people ever complained about when it comes to the current Sonic games like the Advance series was that they were too focused on speed and "holding right to win" and how that was nothing like the classic games, and now you're saying that that was something the classic games did? God..

I never played any of the Sonic Advanced titles, but I know for fact that you can zip past speedily through the zones in Sonic 1, Sonic CD, and Sonic 2

All the modern Sonics I played were Sonic Heroes, Sonic Adventure 1&2, Sonic the Hedgehog '06, and Sonic 4 and they are anything from the speedy classics I enjoyed in my youth.

 

[Roto13]

Please tell me this isn't an actual Sonic Team game? This is a farmed out game right?

I refuse to believe Yuji Naka and Sonic Team would forget how to do just the basic physics of Sonic.

Sonic 4 feels like a beta game and not a finished product.

They would have been better off not calling this Sonic 4. But I guess if they didn't, no one would pay attention to the game. I really hope in episode 2 the physics are fixed and the sense of speed is greatly improved.

Where the hell have YOU been?

 

[Spectral Glider]

I suppose I'm with the majority that thinks the initial animation and control is so wonky and sluggish. It's bizarre, how could nobody on the team not pick up on that? I don't mind the graphics actually, think they're a decent blend of old and new HD....but the feel of the game is just so off. I won't be buying the full version.

 

[jonnybryce]

Okay, I vowed to stay out of Sonic threads for the rest of my life, but I had to come back to say this.

(snip of the no truer words ever spoken)

I suppose I'm with the majority that thinks the initial animation and control is so wonky and sluggish. It's bizarre, how could nobody on the team not pick up on that? I don't mind the graphics actually, think they're a decent blend of old and new HD....but the feel of the game is just so off. I won't be buying the full version.

I keep going back to the demo. I must have played it at least 10 times. I'm trying to give this thing a chance, see something I missed, let it connect with me. "Maybe I'm going in with my mind made up" and "Let's judge it as a game and not a Sonic game" are things I tell myself before giving it yet another shot.

In the end it's not me. It's everything about this game and I will not be giving it my money or time. Fuck you, Sega.

 

[The Technomancer]

oh ok well i found this 11 minute long youtube video for you to watch on sonics physics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6-1cGzPn3E

should only take a few hours to load

Skip the guy's prelude and go straight to the comparisons and that's exactly the problems I had with the games physics. No mid-air momentum: you have to continually hold a direction or Sonic drops straight down. Applies even to going off edges: if you spindash off an edge, Sonic doesn't continue forward and keep rolling, he hits the ground a few feet away and stops. No rolling down hills....ironically, I think that this is the game that they made more Mario like, by giving you such complete 1:1 control over his movement. Sonic was based on knowing the characters innate momentum in order to predict where he would move and land, not having complete mid-air control of him.

Spoiler

The debate rages that Mario's more precise control is tighter and more enjoyable, but I'm of the opinion in the same way that Mario's jump height hits that sweet spot of just "feeling right", Sonic's old momentum physics also hit that sweet spot of "feels right"