Lightning Lord
Banned
Is this what people meant when they spoke of the power of the cloud?
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Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT2 Battle|
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
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Is this what people meant when they spoke of the power of the cloud?
Yeah. It's sad how many compare it to Galaxy, even though it's expected.
nintendoman58
Member
Sonic Lost Worlds |OT| The most X-Treme game we've been waiting for!
Makes more sense IMO.
Shadow Hog
Member
Sonic: Lost Worlds |OT| The Most X-treme Galaxy
Cloud gaming has nothing on those clouds!
Nocturnowl
Member
Well I think overall it's harder for me to deduce this one, I already had knowledge going in on just how this game was structured, in general the setting really does lend itself to some potential open world related exploits, those sky rails alone could have been a way to travel between locations. Areas like Battlsehip Bay and the numerous shops you can enter and proceed to do nothing in while silent NPCs stare right through you do kind of make you think that yes much more could have been done with all this. But as I said my mind had already settled on a take it for what it is approach when I started it up so you'd probably get a stronger answer from someone who went in from Day 1.
I'll tell you that my immersion was completely ruined at one point when I saw a sandcastle on the beach, gleefully approached with the intention of having it crumble in my wake only for me to end up standing on top of it like it were a small stone sculpture. As well as that I tried blasting windows to bits, walloping statues with skyhooks hoping for the heads to topple off but got nothing, it's a shame, it all looks lovely but at the same time it's all so stiff and fixed in place, it misses that final important mark on the attention to detail checklist.
Trusted Gaffer opinions are the new reviews for me, though the same goes for certain reviewers, there are those out there that i'll take the time to read even if I disagree with the scores they bolt on the end because I either tend to agree with them or at least appreciate how they explain things.
Regarding the numbers point, yes it's all too true that some will skip the content and focus only on the ending blurb and numerical value for either positive of negative reviews, often for more negative reviews the content of it goes quite a way into explaining how they reached the score conclusion but well you know, video game review scores are serious business, that high metecritic bonus wont earn itself!
And I finished up my Tales of Graces write up and it's kinda big, to the point that i'll feel odd dropping it into a big old sonic discussion.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Don't buy Remember Me. Holy fuck is it boring.
Nocturnowl
Member
Is the music at least good? I remember listening to the previews and thinking it sounded kind of nice.
I think Donkey Kong Land is one of those games where I feel, you know, that I should like DKC2 more and that it's easier to control, but for some reason I just find more enjoyment out of Land.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Join us next time on "Shit You Already Knew" when we discuss how linear the next CoD game wil be
Nocturnowl
Member
I know that feeling in regard to some game series, I sort of understand.
Now I just need to remember which game inspires such thoughts.
Oh wow! This is amazing! It has to be the title for the game's OT this fall.
Meccanical
Member
It looked bad from the very beginning, I don't know who told you different!
Some Gaffers were talking about buying it "just to support femal main characters" or some stupid shit.
Muh fuckas don't realize all they are doing is supporting bad games.
nintendoman58
Member
Oh my goodness I laugh my ass off every time I revisit that Sonic fragrance thread. Those images. Those reactions.
I brought up bad memories didn't I?
Meccanical
Member
Seven Force
Banned
It's already been gushed about already, but god damn Sonic 3 Complete is amazing.
what thread?
nintendoman58
Member
Allow me to answer your question with a question:
Have you ever wanted to smell like Sonic?
oh god that thread
RobbieNick
Junior Member
Played a demo of it at Wondercon. Was like "Well, that's a game I guess."
Meccanical
Member
Who buys this shit is another good question.
Shadow Hog
Member
Probably the same people who buy E-Tank or FF Potion drinks.
FF Potion drinks?
Hahah.. yeah, what kind of loser buys that...haha..er.
*looks around nervously*
Seven Force
Banned
I remember hearing the E-Tank drinks in particular tasted awful.
Meccanical
Member
Jace...
Nocturnowl
Member
Drinking potion based beverages? not in this post, it's all about gels here in Tales land, I assume it's like jelly or something.
Tales of Graces F (The F stands for friendship, not future)
Its been a long journey to reach this point, what started as a wii game that I kept an eye on but was left in Japan in its original form, it then got an enhanced PS3 port and the odds of it actually making it over possibly increased, then after a long load of nothing Namco suddenly decided that the idea of localizing more Tales games was one that could work and all of a sudden were now at a point where localizations for the bigger entries dont feel so doubtful these days even for PAL regions, unfortunately in the time it took to reach this point any interest I once had in Graces had waned.
So I wasnt there day 1 for Graces, it took a small price drop before I turned up to this party, at this point a general reception for the game had accumulated which seemed to boil down to cool battle system and accompanying mechanics, shitty everything else!.
Now Ill get more onto that point in a minute but first this reception raises an interesting point regarding the JRPG genre, while gameplay first is something many of us like to hold as the gold standard when it comes to video games the JRPG genre itself is a bit of a rogue, it plays by its own rules. When youve got a genre with the overall play time shooting off into the far flung distance often using its narrative as both the reason for its length and also one of the central hooks to keep the player engaged I have to wonder just how important it is to the enjoyment of the game itself. A great battle system can keep attention of course but taking say 40 hours into account here is asking an awful lot from the battle system alone to not fall into mass repetition. Graces feels like a shining example of this little role playing game dilemma, glancing at some Gaf threads on the topic its both been viewed as one of the best of its series and one of the worst (of course you know theres that vintage GAF hyperbole to take into account here) yet Id say that from what Ive seen at least the negative folk tend to outweigh the rest (once again thats like a thing on the internet in general but I figure you get the picture here, reception is skewed). So like many things that have such divergent opinions the answer I have lies somewhere in between.
Plot stuff
So to kick things off Graces uses a setup for its core plot that involves playing as the kid versions of most of the main party members, I actually found that this was a pretty nice way to set things up, instead of just being told about a characters past that no doubt greatly effects their future decisions I get to experience it first hand, now its actually been a while since I played this part so I cant remember too much, as its still early days the games various systems are of course limited, theres a lot of setup in place so theres a lot of talking to accommodate that, so this is to say its not an opening thats going to blast you into the game at any rate but I was pretty cool with it, playing as a bunch of brats could easily have been ten times more insufferable than it actually was so yippee, even so it takes a while to get going.
The core focal point of Graces characters, its plot from the opening to its ending is pretty much fuck yeah FRIENDSHIP! Friendship is the ultimate superpower that overcomes all odds, so how you feel about this angle determines just how well youll likely take the plot progression in this game, your Tales of Tropes has never been more tropey. If I were to touch upon the plot as a whole Id say it was pretty inoffensive, it lacks much intrigue to keep you wondering how it all plays out, however I dont find it as insufferable as others seem to, its a Tales game so I figure that I know what Im getting myself into, these games practically run on a formula that you can trace through various entries no matter which Tales team is in charge, for example
you get the idea, its Tales doing Tales stuff, some just do it better than others.
So really the main crime Graces commits in its world building, characters and overall plot are simply being the same old stuff that youll have seen before in other Tales games and in my case having played Vesperia Ive seen it all done a hell of a lot better in these departments. What one could also consider here is the market the tales plots are aimed at to begin with, Im 22 so yeah maybe this stuff isnt quite my cup of tea at this point, yet I totally lapped up Symphonia back in the day so there we go. Regardless its time to poke at the main set of characters just because
Asbell the disco knight
Yo check out those duds, groovy man, ah Asbell wears an interesting getup compared to the other knights, its mainly those flares but I can dig it, sort of. Anyway Asbell is our typically typical protagonist who doesnt stand out as much as the rest, hes all about the power of friendship and being naively optimistic in the face of uncertainty and all that. I never really found him outright bad outside of two moments,
, otherwise hes just bland really.
Sophie of the many tropes
With Sophie its not so much a case of youll want to protect her and more of she wants to protect you, ho, ho! but no that is one of her defining traits. Memory loss, a lack of understanding human emotions and all that jazz, for what its worth this can make for some entertaining bits of silly dialogue. Her attire does well to set up that shes different from everyone else but why the hell
Anyway shes okay, I could have seen this character going a lot worse than she did.
Cheria the obligatory mage and not much else
Talk about playing it safe, Cheria is just kind of boring in every way from where Im standing, whether in battle or in cutscenes she does what youd probably expect her to do, well she has a nicely designed dress at least? Yeah thats all Ive got. Oh she totally crushes on Asbel and stuff, so yeah, expected.
Hubert of the name that works better when he's a kid
Hubert takes advantage of the whole time skip process rather well, both visually and how his actual character changes, from a short and meek red cheeked kid to GROUCH, a tall grouch coming to think of it, he seems to draw a bit of a short straw regarding any further progress though arriving back later than other characters. I rarely used him in battle so he also got the short straw within my own team as well.
Peculiar Prince Richard
hey guys I think somethings wrong with Richard, his eyes just like changed shape completely and hes now glowering at us, laughing maniacally and generally being kind of a dick, he was fine just a few moments ago before he collapsed in scream filled agony, I wonder whats wrong? oh well
The power of friendship may be strong but fuck me is Asbel stupid, with helpful friendship like this no wonder Richard begins to take a bit of a turn.
Pascal the player of shot cube
Far and away my favourite character of the bunch, Pascal runs off the eccentric genius character type and she completely owns it, her voice actress nails it in a way that I have to applaud, she deals with science speak by babbling about bananas both figuratively and sometimes literally as well as making silly sound effects, its like she exists in her own vacuum away from the rest of the characters and her complete quirkiness just works, the best thing about this games dialogue and also a handy solution to any plot related issue that involves having to work out a problem, Pascal just knows so we can quickly move on with our lives and she'll solve the problem with a little ker-plunk and a doo dad or something equally as vague.
OLD MAN Malick
For once being the old man sounds about right at the age of 40, knocking on deaths door in Tales land, hes typical of this type, has a regretful past that he can only overcome mentally because the power of youth have yet to have their spirits crushed by harsh reality. Also hes voiced by Jamieson Price so he automatically gets a pass. He seems to have a lot of fun making the odd innuendo like statement at the expense of other characters, I shouldnt find it as funny as I do heh.
So this mob carry the story, while they can be overly plain during central story scenes (except Pascal who is just plain crazy) its the skits and little side stuff that makes them shine, the cast seem to exist on two different levels, blandly basic for the main plot and barmy bonkers for the rest, it almost creates a disconnect at times, Asbel hamming it up post battle, Sophie turning her lack of simple understanding into refreshing comic relief, everyone has like a split personality emerging in the aftermath of a victory or when discussing the finer points of a nearby fruit tree, I cant call these guys outright bad characters because Id be lying if I said that I didnt enjoy them when moved aside from the ho-hum story. This all culminates in the sidequest that has them participate in a fairy tale play, there are times when I feel the need to skip cutscenes yet this event was not one of them.
To use tales series comparisons theyre above the dreck of Abyss but still a ways below that of Vesperia, Pascal is the exception, she gets a seat at the top table.
Gameplay stuff
Right thats enough talk about plot and characters, moving onto the actual gameplay side of things. First of all the CC stuff in place of the TP system is a thing of beauty, no more gel gobbling if you dare to make use of your more potent attacks, more variety in combat, more strategy full stop Id say. Graces has a few tricks to avoid having the battles system fall into being a straight up mash fest, guarding to increase aura, gaining CC from well timed dodges, exploiting enemy weaknesses with the right choice of moves, I just find that its pretty fun to play for the most part. Factoring into your battles are the numerous sub systems in place, the eleth mixer of which you can assign various items that can activate upon conditions being met in battle like a health boost when getting creamed so you can try and turn the tide back, the various stuff in said mixer comes at a price so you have to pay and keep the mixer topped up so it can continue aiding your battles in the way that you choose to, its a nice bit of customization that you can tailor to your playstyle or needs.
Then youve got the titles, in the other Tales games Ive played this was mostly useless yet here they form the core of your characters progression, you earn titles with each one having 5 ranks and a mastery status, each title offers a few stat related changes when used and these I think increase if you go as far as mastery, each star rank is worth a more notable upgrade from increasing attack power, learning a new arte or beefing up your older ones in various ways. This gives you some freedom as to how you progress your characters stats and moves, leaping across titles filling in the ranks to power up in the order you choose, I like it though sometimes it feels like Im taking too many trips to the menu in order to switch titles and ponder what one to fling on next which is a bit of a flow breaker.
Of course the battle system is still flawed in ways, it can fall into confusing chaos as everyone screams out special moves while assaulted from all sides by numerous enemies, special effects everywhere, camera zooming right out, where the hell am I? why am I dying?! You know, clusterfuck stuff. Then theres bosses which can be a cycle of stun locking them to bits in order to deal damage and then running for your life in terror when they suddenly super armour it up and start comboing your arse across the screen (hiya Kurt!), occasionally you have annoying respawning enemies to create a false sense of difficulty since the boss on its own may be considered too easy to stun lock up. And in a tales tradition that Ive never really liked, mystic artes, the boss goes into super mode and then you leg it while your comrades brainlessly dive into the super move that outright kills everyone as you start rummaging through the bag for life bottles to begin the arduous process of getting your shit back together, bosses in general could do with feeling a bit more unique on the whole. Of course you get these super moves as well but I still dont like it that much outside of the rule of cool that comes with characters announcing super moves complete with deliciously cheesy combat quotes and obliterating enemies in a brief flashy cutscene. Even with a solid battle system that has numerous well integrated sub mechanics it does have trouble lasting the long haul, Graces starts up the enemy pallet swapping pretty early and could really use more enemy variety, whether Im in the early valleys or a distant land you bet theres going to be some variety of familiar walking plant waging war upon me.
Outside of the battle system is the world itself, Graces drops the standard overworld of a giant man striding across an open map, instead you head down mostly linear like pathways and often use ships to travel around, I dont mind this so much until you get to the whole backtracking business which is when it starts getting a bit annoying, you can shell out for transport which works like a warp but even then certain transports can only go so far, if youre hoping to actually take the time out to explore the world and step away from the main storyline then youll be waiting a long time to get that freedom, though when you do get said freedom its actually quite spiffy to just leap from place to place with a hassle free menu system.
Dungeon design tends to lean towards being AWFUL, I mean damn there are some real stinkers here in Graces, somehow they manage to run across both ends of the awful spectrum, confusing complexes and also long linear stretches, both of which lend themselves to unclear path finding, copy/paste rooms and corridors to create more headaches and puzzles that are either not actually that bad or just plain annoying busywork. Bathus Citadel is a haven of all the worst things, rooms that look the same, a messy layout, a puzzle like mechanic that just doesnt make much sense to me still. For an earlier example Wallbridge is just plain unclear in how it wants you to progress, doors that are left unopened because theres voices on the other side, a search for a switch but the first switches youll likely find arent the actual switches, then after meeting certain criteria you can pull certain switches and head through those damn doors. Lastly Ill give mention to a place that has you keep backtracking for batteries, and yes every corridor looks the same here as well. Basically Graces sometimes has me longing for the days of that damn fruit and fish puzzle in Symphonia.
Graces does do a lot to assist the player in a positive way, playing through Abyss could be a headache when it became unclear on where to head next and the synopsis proved useless, Graces just lets me press a shoulder button and bam Ive got my next task right there in the corner and any paths, shops or buildings of note visible highlighted. Post battle tutorial tips arrive to explain each mechanic at a steady pace so that you can learn as you play and all these tips are put in the menus library which I revisited upon picking this game back up after my long hiatus to great benefit. They also detail how other characters playstyles work and with the ability to jump between characters mid battle with the d pad encourages experimentation, I rather enjoyed using Mailk every now and then and I didnt have to keep switching stuff in the menus to do so. Sidequests get logged into their own area, enemy health bars and weaknesses dont require me to pull out an item on each foe to discover. Failed a boss battle? Retry! Bored to tears by this cutscene talking about friendship, a skit or even standard speech bubble dialogue? Skip it! I want to shake Graces hand for actually going the extra mile to try and help the player out, some JRPGS can feel like a task to wrap ones head around (or maybe its just me) but Graces does a lot to help you through.
Now where is Motoi Sakuraba? I need to scold him for the miserable piss poor soundtrack, damn it Sakuraba I really digged Symphonias soundtrack yet ever since each tales game gets worse and worse, this here is an all time low, Id struggle to name 5 tracks I thought were actually good and my special edition had the audacity to include a soundtrack sampler for this shit. I know you can still go, hell your main theme for Kid Icarus Uprising might have very well been my favourite track from last year, my mind was actually kind of blown when I discovered that you handled the moody Dark Souls soundtrack. Maybe you just got tired of scoring a million JRPG games, maybe they actually told you to make this music as bland as possible but Ive really got to say, Graces has a pretty shocking soundtrack for the most part thats offensive in its sheer blandness. Okay heres two good points, the plinky plonky kid version of the battle theme is kind of neat contrasted to the typical butt rock style version later on, the end credits actually sounded like someone gave a damn even though it was a remix of the sort of ear worming opening of engrishy J pop. Otherwise this is complete cack.
So throwing this all into my eleth mixer leaves me with an interesting result, its a pretty solid JRPG on the whole that trades off overall quality in most supplementary areas but has a strong battle system to counteract this. The nature of the genre, or at least how I tend to view it makes it hard for me to say that the game is great based purely on the strength of its various systems when that which surrounds it could be improved. The thing is this makes me now feel like Im one of those guys in the NSMB threads who apparently gives zero fucks about level design and actual platforming and is more concerned with how pretty the backgrounds look, I dont want it to be this way! Yet here I am.
Vesperia is still my man when it comes to this series, Symphonia has a nostalgic clutch over me but Graces even with its faults is a game that can at least sit alongside them and I wont complain, it avoids the doghouse of shame that Abyss resides in, not sure where I put Symphonia 2, well Graces is certainly better than that one as well.
So since these tales teams used to be one big team cant we just get these guys to handle the games battle and sub systems while team Symphonia tackle world building, plot and characters?
Or maybe they can throw in more shot cube because I found that minigame oddly enthralling.
Side note: I've yet to start the extra post game content, oh and there's probably many missed typos in here.
Okay, that was long, even for me, to the point i'm knackered, need sleep...
Tales of Graces F (The F stands for friendship, not future)
Its been a long journey to reach this point, what started as a wii game that I kept an eye on but was left in Japan in its original form, it then got an enhanced PS3 port and the odds of it actually making it over possibly increased, then after a long load of nothing Namco suddenly decided that the idea of localizing more Tales games was one that could work and all of a sudden were now at a point where localizations for the bigger entries dont feel so doubtful these days even for PAL regions, unfortunately in the time it took to reach this point any interest I once had in Graces had waned.
So I wasnt there day 1 for Graces, it took a small price drop before I turned up to this party, at this point a general reception for the game had accumulated which seemed to boil down to cool battle system and accompanying mechanics, shitty everything else!.
Now Ill get more onto that point in a minute but first this reception raises an interesting point regarding the JRPG genre, while gameplay first is something many of us like to hold as the gold standard when it comes to video games the JRPG genre itself is a bit of a rogue, it plays by its own rules. When youve got a genre with the overall play time shooting off into the far flung distance often using its narrative as both the reason for its length and also one of the central hooks to keep the player engaged I have to wonder just how important it is to the enjoyment of the game itself. A great battle system can keep attention of course but taking say 40 hours into account here is asking an awful lot from the battle system alone to not fall into mass repetition. Graces feels like a shining example of this little role playing game dilemma, glancing at some Gaf threads on the topic its both been viewed as one of the best of its series and one of the worst (of course you know theres that vintage GAF hyperbole to take into account here) yet Id say that from what Ive seen at least the negative folk tend to outweigh the rest (once again thats like a thing on the internet in general but I figure you get the picture here, reception is skewed). So like many things that have such divergent opinions the answer I have lies somewhere in between.
Plot stuff
So to kick things off Graces uses a setup for its core plot that involves playing as the kid versions of most of the main party members, I actually found that this was a pretty nice way to set things up, instead of just being told about a characters past that no doubt greatly effects their future decisions I get to experience it first hand, now its actually been a while since I played this part so I cant remember too much, as its still early days the games various systems are of course limited, theres a lot of setup in place so theres a lot of talking to accommodate that, so this is to say its not an opening thats going to blast you into the game at any rate but I was pretty cool with it, playing as a bunch of brats could easily have been ten times more insufferable than it actually was so yippee, even so it takes a while to get going.
The core focal point of Graces characters, its plot from the opening to its ending is pretty much fuck yeah FRIENDSHIP! Friendship is the ultimate superpower that overcomes all odds, so how you feel about this angle determines just how well youll likely take the plot progression in this game, your Tales of Tropes has never been more tropey. If I were to touch upon the plot as a whole Id say it was pretty inoffensive, it lacks much intrigue to keep you wondering how it all plays out, however I dont find it as insufferable as others seem to, its a Tales game so I figure that I know what Im getting myself into, these games practically run on a formula that you can trace through various entries no matter which Tales team is in charge, for example
TRAITOROUS TEAMMATE, OLD MAN TEAMMATE WHO MAY NOT ACTUALLY BE THAT OLD, OPTIMISTIC MAIN CHARACTER, OUTER SPACE TWIST, VILLAIN IS EVIL BECAUSE HUMANS ARE TOTALLY DICKS, BUT HUMANS ARE NOT DICKS BECAUSE FRIENDSHIP, WARRING CONTINENTS, A BUNCH OF GIBBERISH TERMS UNIQUE TO EACH GAME EXPLAINING HOW MAGIC WORKS HERE
So really the main crime Graces commits in its world building, characters and overall plot are simply being the same old stuff that youll have seen before in other Tales games and in my case having played Vesperia Ive seen it all done a hell of a lot better in these departments. What one could also consider here is the market the tales plots are aimed at to begin with, Im 22 so yeah maybe this stuff isnt quite my cup of tea at this point, yet I totally lapped up Symphonia back in the day so there we go. Regardless its time to poke at the main set of characters just because
Asbell the disco knight
Yo check out those duds, groovy man, ah Asbell wears an interesting getup compared to the other knights, its mainly those flares but I can dig it, sort of. Anyway Asbell is our typically typical protagonist who doesnt stand out as much as the rest, hes all about the power of friendship and being naively optimistic in the face of uncertainty and all that. I never really found him outright bad outside of two moments,
raging at Sophie for considering self sacrifice as it was the only option they actually had, DO YOU DOUBT MY POWER OF FRIENDSHIP WOMAN?! And then there was the whole ending itself with Lambda which was just too much cheese for me
Sophie of the many tropes
With Sophie its not so much a case of youll want to protect her and more of she wants to protect you, ho, ho! but no that is one of her defining traits. Memory loss, a lack of understanding human emotions and all that jazz, for what its worth this can make for some entertaining bits of silly dialogue. Her attire does well to set up that shes different from everyone else but why the hell
would you make a robo assassin to take down such a monstrous threat look like a little pig tailed girl? Is it just funnier that way when they accomplish their task? Insult to injury, you got owned by a widdle gurl?
Cheria the obligatory mage and not much else
Talk about playing it safe, Cheria is just kind of boring in every way from where Im standing, whether in battle or in cutscenes she does what youd probably expect her to do, well she has a nicely designed dress at least? Yeah thats all Ive got. Oh she totally crushes on Asbel and stuff, so yeah, expected.
Hubert of the name that works better when he's a kid
Hubert takes advantage of the whole time skip process rather well, both visually and how his actual character changes, from a short and meek red cheeked kid to GROUCH, a tall grouch coming to think of it, he seems to draw a bit of a short straw regarding any further progress though arriving back later than other characters. I rarely used him in battle so he also got the short straw within my own team as well.
Peculiar Prince Richard
hey guys I think somethings wrong with Richard, his eyes just like changed shape completely and hes now glowering at us, laughing maniacally and generally being kind of a dick, he was fine just a few moments ago before he collapsed in scream filled agony, I wonder whats wrong? oh well
The power of friendship may be strong but fuck me is Asbel stupid, with helpful friendship like this no wonder Richard begins to take a bit of a turn.
Pascal the player of shot cube
Far and away my favourite character of the bunch, Pascal runs off the eccentric genius character type and she completely owns it, her voice actress nails it in a way that I have to applaud, she deals with science speak by babbling about bananas both figuratively and sometimes literally as well as making silly sound effects, its like she exists in her own vacuum away from the rest of the characters and her complete quirkiness just works, the best thing about this games dialogue and also a handy solution to any plot related issue that involves having to work out a problem, Pascal just knows so we can quickly move on with our lives and she'll solve the problem with a little ker-plunk and a doo dad or something equally as vague.
OLD MAN Malick
For once being the old man sounds about right at the age of 40, knocking on deaths door in Tales land, hes typical of this type, has a regretful past that he can only overcome mentally because the power of youth have yet to have their spirits crushed by harsh reality. Also hes voiced by Jamieson Price so he automatically gets a pass. He seems to have a lot of fun making the odd innuendo like statement at the expense of other characters, I shouldnt find it as funny as I do heh.
So this mob carry the story, while they can be overly plain during central story scenes (except Pascal who is just plain crazy) its the skits and little side stuff that makes them shine, the cast seem to exist on two different levels, blandly basic for the main plot and barmy bonkers for the rest, it almost creates a disconnect at times, Asbel hamming it up post battle, Sophie turning her lack of simple understanding into refreshing comic relief, everyone has like a split personality emerging in the aftermath of a victory or when discussing the finer points of a nearby fruit tree, I cant call these guys outright bad characters because Id be lying if I said that I didnt enjoy them when moved aside from the ho-hum story. This all culminates in the sidequest that has them participate in a fairy tale play, there are times when I feel the need to skip cutscenes yet this event was not one of them.
To use tales series comparisons theyre above the dreck of Abyss but still a ways below that of Vesperia, Pascal is the exception, she gets a seat at the top table.
Gameplay stuff
Right thats enough talk about plot and characters, moving onto the actual gameplay side of things. First of all the CC stuff in place of the TP system is a thing of beauty, no more gel gobbling if you dare to make use of your more potent attacks, more variety in combat, more strategy full stop Id say. Graces has a few tricks to avoid having the battles system fall into being a straight up mash fest, guarding to increase aura, gaining CC from well timed dodges, exploiting enemy weaknesses with the right choice of moves, I just find that its pretty fun to play for the most part. Factoring into your battles are the numerous sub systems in place, the eleth mixer of which you can assign various items that can activate upon conditions being met in battle like a health boost when getting creamed so you can try and turn the tide back, the various stuff in said mixer comes at a price so you have to pay and keep the mixer topped up so it can continue aiding your battles in the way that you choose to, its a nice bit of customization that you can tailor to your playstyle or needs.
Then youve got the titles, in the other Tales games Ive played this was mostly useless yet here they form the core of your characters progression, you earn titles with each one having 5 ranks and a mastery status, each title offers a few stat related changes when used and these I think increase if you go as far as mastery, each star rank is worth a more notable upgrade from increasing attack power, learning a new arte or beefing up your older ones in various ways. This gives you some freedom as to how you progress your characters stats and moves, leaping across titles filling in the ranks to power up in the order you choose, I like it though sometimes it feels like Im taking too many trips to the menu in order to switch titles and ponder what one to fling on next which is a bit of a flow breaker.
Of course the battle system is still flawed in ways, it can fall into confusing chaos as everyone screams out special moves while assaulted from all sides by numerous enemies, special effects everywhere, camera zooming right out, where the hell am I? why am I dying?! You know, clusterfuck stuff. Then theres bosses which can be a cycle of stun locking them to bits in order to deal damage and then running for your life in terror when they suddenly super armour it up and start comboing your arse across the screen (hiya Kurt!), occasionally you have annoying respawning enemies to create a false sense of difficulty since the boss on its own may be considered too easy to stun lock up. And in a tales tradition that Ive never really liked, mystic artes, the boss goes into super mode and then you leg it while your comrades brainlessly dive into the super move that outright kills everyone as you start rummaging through the bag for life bottles to begin the arduous process of getting your shit back together, bosses in general could do with feeling a bit more unique on the whole. Of course you get these super moves as well but I still dont like it that much outside of the rule of cool that comes with characters announcing super moves complete with deliciously cheesy combat quotes and obliterating enemies in a brief flashy cutscene. Even with a solid battle system that has numerous well integrated sub mechanics it does have trouble lasting the long haul, Graces starts up the enemy pallet swapping pretty early and could really use more enemy variety, whether Im in the early valleys or a distant land you bet theres going to be some variety of familiar walking plant waging war upon me.
Outside of the battle system is the world itself, Graces drops the standard overworld of a giant man striding across an open map, instead you head down mostly linear like pathways and often use ships to travel around, I dont mind this so much until you get to the whole backtracking business which is when it starts getting a bit annoying, you can shell out for transport which works like a warp but even then certain transports can only go so far, if youre hoping to actually take the time out to explore the world and step away from the main storyline then youll be waiting a long time to get that freedom, though when you do get said freedom its actually quite spiffy to just leap from place to place with a hassle free menu system.
Dungeon design tends to lean towards being AWFUL, I mean damn there are some real stinkers here in Graces, somehow they manage to run across both ends of the awful spectrum, confusing complexes and also long linear stretches, both of which lend themselves to unclear path finding, copy/paste rooms and corridors to create more headaches and puzzles that are either not actually that bad or just plain annoying busywork. Bathus Citadel is a haven of all the worst things, rooms that look the same, a messy layout, a puzzle like mechanic that just doesnt make much sense to me still. For an earlier example Wallbridge is just plain unclear in how it wants you to progress, doors that are left unopened because theres voices on the other side, a search for a switch but the first switches youll likely find arent the actual switches, then after meeting certain criteria you can pull certain switches and head through those damn doors. Lastly Ill give mention to a place that has you keep backtracking for batteries, and yes every corridor looks the same here as well. Basically Graces sometimes has me longing for the days of that damn fruit and fish puzzle in Symphonia.
Graces does do a lot to assist the player in a positive way, playing through Abyss could be a headache when it became unclear on where to head next and the synopsis proved useless, Graces just lets me press a shoulder button and bam Ive got my next task right there in the corner and any paths, shops or buildings of note visible highlighted. Post battle tutorial tips arrive to explain each mechanic at a steady pace so that you can learn as you play and all these tips are put in the menus library which I revisited upon picking this game back up after my long hiatus to great benefit. They also detail how other characters playstyles work and with the ability to jump between characters mid battle with the d pad encourages experimentation, I rather enjoyed using Mailk every now and then and I didnt have to keep switching stuff in the menus to do so. Sidequests get logged into their own area, enemy health bars and weaknesses dont require me to pull out an item on each foe to discover. Failed a boss battle? Retry! Bored to tears by this cutscene talking about friendship, a skit or even standard speech bubble dialogue? Skip it! I want to shake Graces hand for actually going the extra mile to try and help the player out, some JRPGS can feel like a task to wrap ones head around (or maybe its just me) but Graces does a lot to help you through.
Now where is Motoi Sakuraba? I need to scold him for the miserable piss poor soundtrack, damn it Sakuraba I really digged Symphonias soundtrack yet ever since each tales game gets worse and worse, this here is an all time low, Id struggle to name 5 tracks I thought were actually good and my special edition had the audacity to include a soundtrack sampler for this shit. I know you can still go, hell your main theme for Kid Icarus Uprising might have very well been my favourite track from last year, my mind was actually kind of blown when I discovered that you handled the moody Dark Souls soundtrack. Maybe you just got tired of scoring a million JRPG games, maybe they actually told you to make this music as bland as possible but Ive really got to say, Graces has a pretty shocking soundtrack for the most part thats offensive in its sheer blandness. Okay heres two good points, the plinky plonky kid version of the battle theme is kind of neat contrasted to the typical butt rock style version later on, the end credits actually sounded like someone gave a damn even though it was a remix of the sort of ear worming opening of engrishy J pop. Otherwise this is complete cack.
So throwing this all into my eleth mixer leaves me with an interesting result, its a pretty solid JRPG on the whole that trades off overall quality in most supplementary areas but has a strong battle system to counteract this. The nature of the genre, or at least how I tend to view it makes it hard for me to say that the game is great based purely on the strength of its various systems when that which surrounds it could be improved. The thing is this makes me now feel like Im one of those guys in the NSMB threads who apparently gives zero fucks about level design and actual platforming and is more concerned with how pretty the backgrounds look, I dont want it to be this way! Yet here I am.
Vesperia is still my man when it comes to this series, Symphonia has a nostalgic clutch over me but Graces even with its faults is a game that can at least sit alongside them and I wont complain, it avoids the doghouse of shame that Abyss resides in, not sure where I put Symphonia 2, well Graces is certainly better than that one as well.
So since these tales teams used to be one big team cant we just get these guys to handle the games battle and sub systems while team Symphonia tackle world building, plot and characters?
Or maybe they can throw in more shot cube because I found that minigame oddly enthralling.
Side note: I've yet to start the extra post game content, oh and there's probably many missed typos in here.
Okay, that was long, even for me, to the point i'm knackered, need sleep...
Wow, the final boss of Sonic 4 Ep1 is even more underwhelming than the rest of the game. You'd think with so many recycled enemies, bosses, and obstacles they'd at least try something different once for the final boss, but no. This whole game is just Sonic 2 developed by a B-tier developer at best. It's completely pointless.
And with that, my new games just came in the mail. I really shouldn't do this.
Threw Sonic '06 in there so it would feel at home.
And with that, my new games just came in the mail. I really shouldn't do this.
Threw Sonic '06 in there so it would feel at home.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Your formatting skills could use some work, Nocturnowl. I enjoy your posts a lot, but long-form writing can be a bit tricky to read when paragraphing is inconsistent, and it can be pretty exhausting to read.
It all reads a bit too much like stream-of-consciousness, when it really shouldn't. I've managed to not say anything until now, but dropping a massive post like that compels me to say something. Hope you don't take that the wrong way.
It all reads a bit too much like stream-of-consciousness, when it really shouldn't. I've managed to not say anything until now, but dropping a massive post like that compels me to say something. Hope you don't take that the wrong way.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I love Nocutrnowl's stream of consciousness posts. Maybe a bit too much for me to read about a Tales game, but everytime I see a post of his in my subscriptions, I get happy.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Holy guacamole, Nocturnowl! Hahaha, even I never wrote that much about Graces (I don't think; I should check). Regardless, I'm gonna have to sit down, think, and construct something in Word to post in response to that. With that said, I'm surprised that in the gameplay section you didn't pay much mind to the fluidity all of the systems have with each other in that all of them affect each other in some respect. I'll get into that when I post my response much later. I appreciate that you took the effort to put all of your thoughts to a post.
Wow. I'd just hate to follow that up with something that I haven't thought about, hence my delay in a response. With respect to your last bit, Nocturnowl, both Tales teams are now merged into one team now. You got Xillia and Xillia 2 out of that. Er. I'll get back to Xillia 2 when I feel damn well ready. I'll just tell myself to not chase the trophies this time around because they are boring as hell.
Oh, uh. I bought these at HMV today. Also, I saw Good Charlotte classified as punk rock and I died a little inside. I'm surprised having been an Oscar Peterson fan since high school, I have never ever owned one of his albums to play in the car before. And I bought a Jamiroquai album that I didn't have for the car, too.
I think it's about time I made a mix CD again. Fuck, I miss making mixtapes.
And Sonic 4: Episode 1's final boss is gosh darn awful. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the bit when the boss explodes and unsuspecting players are caught unawares if they don't jump.
Wow. I'd just hate to follow that up with something that I haven't thought about, hence my delay in a response. With respect to your last bit, Nocturnowl, both Tales teams are now merged into one team now. You got Xillia and Xillia 2 out of that. Er. I'll get back to Xillia 2 when I feel damn well ready. I'll just tell myself to not chase the trophies this time around because they are boring as hell.
Oh, uh. I bought these at HMV today. Also, I saw Good Charlotte classified as punk rock and I died a little inside. I'm surprised having been an Oscar Peterson fan since high school, I have never ever owned one of his albums to play in the car before. And I bought a Jamiroquai album that I didn't have for the car, too.
I think it's about time I made a mix CD again. Fuck, I miss making mixtapes.
ONE (two, imo) OF THOSE THINGS IS NOT LIKE THE OTHER. Hahahahahahaha!
And Sonic 4: Episode 1's final boss is gosh darn awful. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the bit when the boss explodes and unsuspecting players are caught unawares if they don't jump.
Oooh, elaborate. Noi told me he thought it was boring as hell when he played it at PAX.
I waited 2 hours in line to play that turd at PAX. It's 2 hours of my life that I'll never get back, the hired booth babe dressed up at the MC was the only thing worth looking at for those 2 hours.
And to think I was almost willing to write a lot of it off as "early build woes" but every piece of media afterward shows 0 improvement. Buying it on principle my ass.
Hot Coldman
Banned
My local HMV shut down.
Wah wah.
Also, great job guys, now I feel like a dick
Wah wah.
Also, great job guys, now I feel like a dick
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Don't. It was constructive criticism, and that's merited and acceptable. I don't say it, but I love how you all have grown over the past 2-3 years with respect to your writing skills. The practice certainly helps.My local HMV shut down.
Wah wah.
Also, great job guys, now I feel like a dick
Also, did you grab the album yet, or not yet?
Shadow Hog
Member
I don't even think the States has HMV
I thought that was a British thing. Their website only shows British locations. You're telling me they're in Canada, too?
I thought that was a British thing. Their website only shows British locations. You're telling me they're in Canada, too?
Seven Force
Banned
My local HMV shut down.
Wah wah.
Also, great job guys, now I feel like a dick
HMV hasn't been a thing here for nine or so years.
It was constructive criticism, though! I'm sure everyone here would appreciate getting it every now and then.
Man, I miss record stores. Used to be a ton in NYC. HMV, Virgin, Tower Records...
Hot Coldman
Banned
It's on Spotify, so I'll give it a listen tomorrow. Didn't realise it was out until yesterday, and I've been away from home.
I heard good things, though!
It's time for you to do what I did. UNTOUCHABLE.
No, it's shameful enough that half the trophies on my PSN account are going to be Sonic trophies.
That caught me too. I jumped, but didn't react to the homing attack indicator telling me I was supposed to attack him fast enough. I didn't care that much except the boss is so slow, easy, boring, and blatantly copied and pasted from Sonic 2.
Dark Schala
Eloquent Princess
Yeah, the guy at HMV said it was one of the better albums of the year so far, so I'm excited to give it a full listen. Ah, I just went in just to see if they had anything neat and decided to pick it up then and there. I was going over whether or not to buy the recent JT album until I said to myself, "Man, nothing I heard from it is FS/LS material, so eh."
Canada is a Commonwealth nation! I've also ordered a thing or two from HMV Japan before.I don't even think the States has HMV
I thought that was a British thing. Their website only shows British locations. You're telling me they're in Canada, too?
It... looks like it's mostly Commonwealth countries?
Oh yeah, the boss is completely boring. It takes a while to beat, too, which is incredibly unfortunate. But yeah, that jump at the end definitely caught me.
It shouldn't be embarrassing. It's not like you have Hannah Montana or something on your trophy list. Haha. Though this isn't half and more like... way less than half. And it doesn't include the racers or SA2 before I had to clear the fridge.
(I am not playing Sonic 4: Ep 1 again to get some of the easier trophies in it because oh lord no it's like pulling teeth for me)
Meccanical
Member
Platinuming games are for losers.
>_>
Seven Force
Banned
I have Sonic 4 100% completed on my trophy list and I wasn't even the one that did it. >__>
Professor Beef
Banned
Got all the emeralds in S3C with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles. Feels just like old times.
Seven Force
Banned
That reminds me, I still have to get the Savior of The Planet trophy in CD. I keep putting that off.
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