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[Hot Coldman]

it's the Game Gear, I just can't take you people seriously

also I checked the ShitPosts twitter for the first time in a while and qq more's favourite person is hard at work

 

[Nocturnowl]

Well, there's their version of Unleashed if you want precedent.

Well now you've just gone and killed their chance for redemption, this is like digging up dirt from their past and successfully tarnishing their future prospects, you cold callous Bunny box.

I've never actually played Unleashed Wii, I just choose to doubt it.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Boss Doggie made NeoGAFShitPosts?

 

[Box of Bunnies]

The first couple of Master System (fuck yo Game Gear) games were my only real exposure to the franchise outside of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog for the longest time.

Underground Zone basically was Sonic to me.

Well now you've just gone and killed their chance for redemption, this is like digging up dirt from their past and successfully tarnishing their future prospects, you cold callous Bunny box.

I've never actually played Unleashed Wii, I just choose to doubt it.

I've never really played it either, but it always looked kinda bland and empty from what I saw. Was also missing two continents. Still managed to review better than the real game somehow.

 

[Dark Schala]

Maybe 3D will give them a kick up the arse, maybe they can have redemption. But yes, Dimps equal doubt.

Well we all know how I feel about 3D blast and its flickie collecting, keeping a wary eye on this whole addition.

The double jump doesn't seem as momentum shifting as the Colours one but that might just be wishful thinking on my part.
The speed is a bit of a concern, maybe I've had too much Boost as of late but at times it did look a bit slow even during sections that could be sped through. Still I don't mind the odd bit of more precise platforming to break things up.

While the stage backdrops are varied and such they can look a tad too bare in parts, hopefully this wont mean the end of some of the more visually striking locations.
I'm thinking of Aquarium Park as I say this which has me wondering how they'll handle water here? maybe a 2D only thing.

See i've been saying this for ages.

They had a chance with Generations 3DS, and outside of Classic Sonic controlling properly, that game was a drag in the middle, and it's absurd that you unlock the missions in an absurd way. Game design.

Yeah, the Flickies have me feelin' weird. If it breaks up the pacing, that'd be disappointing. The thing I liked about Red Rings and some of the Medals in Unleashed Day was that they felt part of the level and it didn't break up the speed or momentum of the level's pacing. Odd how they're sticking Flickies here when it... wasn't a great experimental thing in 3D Blast. And that game was slowly-paced, to boot.

I know JC was remarking about the run time or the run animation in the other thread, and at times it looked slow. It looks like they're trying to create a balance between the two playstyles here, but I won't know if it feels slow unless I get to play a demo or something, you know?

If they have a water level, I hope they'd go with something like a Drill Wisp to speed up exploration because that was a good design decision.

So we're all agreed: Special Stages can be silly, and Blue Sphere is the one that most people like.

Underground Zone basically was Sonic to me.

Oh God. I'm so sorry.

 

[PhantomOfTheKnight]

Is it a running theme in the franchise for the pyramid levels to be incredibly uninteresting?

Boss Doggie made NeoGAFShitPosts?

Link pls.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Put it this way- each new Special Stage was better the last. Sonic 1's are garbage, Sonic 2's are just whatever, Sonic CD's are fun and Blue Sphere is awesome. Everything since then has been a half-arsed version of the halfpipe so whatever (although Rush's was pretty great).

If they return to it now, they could do some cool stuff.

...I just wanna be Super Sonic again.

Boss Doggie made NeoGAFShitPosts?

nope

 

[ViewtifulJC]

...I just wanna be Super Sonic again.

Oh you will

Spoiler

for the secret final boss fight...IN SPACE *spoilers*

 

[Shadow Hog]

I don't get the comparisons to 3D Blast.

In 3D Blast, you have to actively hunt down robots, smash them, then directly grab the Flicky as it runs or hops all over the place, and then hand-deliver them to a specific goal.

In Lost World, there's a counter for how many robots you smashed as you ran through the stage, with bonuses for optionally finding and breaking animal capsules scattered about, or the big one at the end of the stage. You don't have to actively grab the Flickies - just breaking them out is enough. And the enemies aren't hidden in specific locations for you to hunt down - you get this from any old enemy scattered in the stage, of which there are tons.

They're nothing alike.

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Oh God. I'm so sorry.

It wasn't so bad, was only really played for a little bit when I'd be visiting a friend or cousin who had a Master System (the Nintendo/Sega ratio was actually split pretty evenly here in Australia, compared to leaning one way or the other as it seemed to elsewhere). I actually kinda like the stage, and the boss is pretty easy on the Master System. Always had more trouble with the hang gliders in the next zone.

I always had Super Mario Bros. 3 to go home to, while they were stuck with them.

...I just wanna be Super Sonic again.

Well, if this is as much Colours 2 as it looks to be...

 

[Shadow Hog]

I should probably note that Sonic 2 on the Game Gear was my first Sonic game, too.

So at least Box of Bunnies had the version with the beatable first boss. I didn't.

 

[Nocturnowl]

The first couple of Master System (fuck yo Game Gear) games were my only real exposure to the franchise outside of Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog for the longest time.

Underground Zone basically was Sonic to me.

I've never really played it either, but it always looked kinda bland and empty from what I saw. Was also missing two continents. Still managed to review better than the real game somehow.

Sonic 1 & 2 MS were my original Sonic games, I swear by Sonic 1 MS, but Underground zones boss and the hang glider that I never figured out in the following zone have doomed Sonic 2 for me.

Oh yeah, I forgot about missing two continents, effectively less daytime stages, the ones that are there are shorter and emptier if I recall, BETTER GAME!

They had a chance with Generations 3DS, and outside of Classic Sonic controlling properly, that game was a drag in the middle, and it's absurd that you unlock the missions in an absurd way. Game design.

Yeah, the Flickies have me feelin' weird. If it breaks up the pacing, that'd be disappointing. The thing I liked about Red Rings and some of the Medals in Unleashed Day was that they felt part of the level and it didn't break up the speed or momentum of the level's pacing. Odd how they're sticking Flickies here when it... wasn't a great experimental thing in 3D Blast. And that game was slowly-paced, to boot.

I know JC was remarking about the run time or the run animation in the other thread, and at times it looked slow. It looks like they're trying to create a balance between the two playstyles here, but I won't know if it feels slow unless I get to play a demo or something, you know?

If they have a water level, I hope they'd go with something like a Drill Wisp to speed up exploration because that was a good design decision.

I never even bothered delving into the mission mode, yeah that was absurd design.
I can't get over the visual mess of Emerald Coast in that game, out of place spikes lined up everywhere, strange gimmick platforms that look like they're from space just floating in the air, it hurts.

If the slower pace has one thing going for it i'm not as likley to blitz past a red ring I was actively trying to collect, the pain of Unleashed's medals was blitzing past them.
Is it odd that I sometimes avoid the drill wisp because it will interrupt my beloved Aquarium Pak theme?

Oh you will

Spoiler

for the secret final boss fight...IN SPACE *spoilers*

Ah, one of the worst Sonic trends, i'm serious, these fights all tend to suck.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The first boss on Sonic 2 Game Gear robbed me of my innoncence

 

[Dark Schala]

I'll pick up the 3DS version, I know, but I kinda get the feeling that it's going to fall victim to Dimpsisms.

And yeah! You could be Super Sonic in Colours. There were special stages in that. >.>

Edit: Wait, the boss was easier on the Master System?

I don't get the comparisons to 3D Blast.

In 3D Blast, you have to actively hunt down robots, smash them, then directly grab the Flicky as it runs or hops all over the place, and then hand-deliver them to a specific goal.

In Lost World, there's a counter for how many robots you smashed as you ran through the stage, with bonuses for optionally finding and breaking animal capsules scattered about, or the big one at the end of the stage. You don't have to actively grab the Flickies - just breaking them out is enough. And the enemies aren't hidden in specific locations for you to hunt down - you get this from any old enemy scattered in the stage, of which there are tons.

They're nothing alike.

Well, you're still going out of your way to hunt down enemies to me, hence why I said it. I dunno. Whenever I play Sonic, I don't actively go out and knock around every robot in the stage, or every robot I find. To me, that breaks up the pacing, but everyone else might feel a little differently. Heck, sometimes I just run into the enemies and use the i-frames to get along faster. But I do that in Mega Man anyway, too.

Ehhh, we'll see. If it doesn't break up the pacing while playing the game, good. If it does, well... tough.

I never even bothered delving into the mission mode, yeah that was absurd design.
I can't get over the visual mess of Emerald Coast in that game, out of place spikes lined up everywhere, strange gimmick platforms that look like they're from space just floating in the air, it hurts.

If the slower pace has one thing going for it i'm not as likley to blitz past a red ring I was actively trying to collect, the pain of Unleashed's medals was blitzing past them.
Is it odd that I sometimes avoid the drill wisp because it will interrupt my beloved Aquarium Pak theme?

But the drill theme underwater's still good! Booooo.

And Emerald Coast Generations was just... Every time I think of that stage, I have to start thinking of Sonic 06 2D remake, because the stage aesthetics and design just reminds me of that. What were they thinking?

 

[Hot Coldman]

Colours doesn't count, Gameland or whatever the fuck played the same as the main game and you couldn't fuck up and miss out

Resetting the game once you realise you fucked up your chance of getting all 7 emeralds in a playthrough, that's what Sonic is all about

 

[Nocturnowl]

If we're counting the Sonic Simulator as special stages then rejoice, that's one game with genuinely great special stages and not me gritting my teeth and sort of pretending that I looked forward to Blue Sphere.
Quiet Coldman, I will not hear your attempts to discredit it in favour of gimmicky poop i'm required to do so I can stop Sonic 1 from ending with TOO BAD!

Speaking of enemy pace breaking, I don't much like that big old caterpillar fellow from the Wii U Lost World trailer with his three hits to beat, the whole process just grinded the video to a halt.

 

[Dark Schala]

Colours doesn't count, Gameland or whatever the fuck played the same as the main game and you couldn't fuck up and miss out

Resetting the game once you realise you fucked up your chance of getting all 7 emeralds in a playthrough, that's what Sonic is all about

Grab all the flickies. Make a good future Happy Peaceful Valley in the Zone. Get Chaos Emerald. I don't know. If they include special stages, I hope they're designed well. I want to see something other than a halfpipe. An homage to Blue Sphere. Something.

My mind is now going back to Sonic 4: Episode 2's special stages and they were designed so stupidly. That Seventh Chaos Emerald is bullshit.

 

[Shadow Hog]

Wait, the boss was easier on the Master System?

Larger screen area, and the ball bounces were consistent every time. The Game Gear version shrank the arena and made the balls bounce in different fashions (some tall, some short), which you couldn't tell until it was pretty much on your head.

Yeah, the MS fight is actually pretty manageable. The GG fight is just sadistic.

Well, you're still going out of your way to hunt down enemies to me, hence why I said it. I dunno. Whenever I play Sonic, I don't actively go out and knock around every robot in the stage, or every robot I find. To me, that breaks up the pacing, but everyone else might feel a little differently. Heck, sometimes I just run into the enemies and use the i-frames to get along faster. But I do that in Mega Man anyway, too.

Ehhh, we'll see. If it doesn't break up the pacing while playing the game, good. If it does, well... tough.

See, I do kill every enemy I see in every game, generally, unless I know for a fact that the fight is definitively not worth it. It's just kinda instinct to me. But either way, as far as we know, the game isn't going to prevent you from progressing if you don't compulsively kill enemies you come across. (Unless they pull that medal shit from Unleashed again. But Ruby seemed to be implying that it unlocked "secrets" instead, not "the next level", so they probably won't.)

 

[Hot Coldman]

Yes, I don't want half-pipes again. Luckily that some Dimps bullshit that Sonic Team don't seem to care much about any more.

just do blue sphere again

 

[PhantomOfTheKnight]

I'd rather have a non-crap version of UFO Chaser Special Stages than Blue Spheres.

 

[ColtraineGF]

Maybe the game did start as a Wii-based title - the levels shown off have a sparse feel, probably aimed at making the main gameplay as smooth as possible on a system that can't do the complex Generations-style backgrounds.

Still looks good though - hopefully that remark about the Wii U version being close to 60fps is true, plus there's plenty of time to improve.

 

[Shadow Hog]

I liked Chaotix's special stages, actually.

But that wouldn't make any sense for this game, because this game already plays like Chaotix's special stages - just without you always running forward. (Except for certain levels, apparently.)

 

[PhantomOfTheKnight]

Wow, I just noticed that I'm still a trial member on Retro. I should post more.

EDIT: Just noticed two more things in the WiiU version: there's no rank at the end of the stage, and the timer is actually counting down, not up.

 

[qq more]

Saw just the 3DS footage so far. It looks fantastic so far!

 

[Shadow Hog]

Saw just the 3DS footage so far. It looks fantastic so far!

I'd say you like emphasizing its incomplete nature, so far.

 

[Dark Schala]

EDIT: Just noticed two more things in the WiiU version: there's no rank at the end of the stage, and the timer is actually counting down, not up.

That's... interesting.

I'm not sure how to feel about that! I'll think about it when I'm doing my groceries, but for some reason, it sits well with me, and other times, it doesn't (the timer thing, not the lack of a rank, because that might not be in the demo).

 

[Sciz]

Maybe the game did start as a Wii-based title - the levels shown off have a sparse feel, probably aimed at making the main gameplay as smooth as possible on a system that can't do the complex Generations-style backgrounds.

I would expect it's mostly a matter of cost-cutting. This game's simpler, more modular style is much cheaper to produce content for than Generations' massively detailed theme park rides. Probably cheaper than even Colors' larger stages, from the looks of it.

 

[ColtraineGF]

I would expect it's mostly a matter of cost-cutting. This game's simpler, more modular style is much cheaper to produce content for than Generations' massively detailed theme park rides. Probably cheaper than even Colors' larger stages, from the looks of it.

Mm, maybe when the other levels come in it'll be clear. But it's looking very much like an intentional sequel to Colors (more platform-y, double jump, red rings, Wisps, callback to Sweet Mountain and Terminal Velocity). Considering they started making this before they heard about the Wii U and all (apparently), they probably never planned on making this a Hedgehog Engine game in the first place.

 

[Pietepiet]

Just checked out all the footage, it looks really fun! I'm surprised the 3DS version is even a full 3D platformer, what with Gens 3DS and all...

I'm a bit bummed that it doesn't really have the same crazy-ass setpieces as Generations, and that it's a liiiiiittle too much like Galaxy, but overall I'm excited about it. The parkour system looks hella fun

 

[qq more]

Just checked out all the footage, it looks really fun! I'm surprised the 3DS version is even a full 3D platformer, what with Gens 3DS and all...

I'm a bit bummed that it doesn't really have the same crazy-ass setpieces as Generations, and that it's a liiiiiittle too much like Galaxy, but overall I'm excited about it. The parkour system looks hella fun

It's more like X-treme than it is Galaxy!

 

[Pietepiet]

It's more like X-treme than it is Galaxy!

It really isn't. You go from planet to planet and do short platforming bits before moving onto the next one. Huge springs replace the star-cannons from Galaxy. X-Treme, from the footage I've seen, does not send you from small planet to small planet like this. Hell, even the camera positioning is like Galaxy a lot of the times. This game screams "We looked at Mario Galaxy and learned from it", and not so much "Oh, maybe those American devs were on to something with X-Treme 10 years ago". I think it's highly unlikely that they looked at X-Treme instead of Galaxy

One more thing I don't like: the super-peel out feet look ridiculous in 3D.

[EDIT] Don't get me wrong, by the way. Being comparable to Galaxy is probably a good thing. I just liked the Modern gameplay from Unleashed and Generations a lot, and I'm bummed they're already dropping it after two games.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I just am now seeing the footage...looks pretty good, well so far as the 3DS version is concerned, I still have to watch the other footage. It does give me Galaxy vibes but that's because my gaming knowledge is kinda limited...well I don't really know how to explain it...I just don't play a lot of games so it's tough to come up with comparions. Like the music so far as well...I imagine with the 3DS version, I'll end up turning off the 3D so I can enjoy it even more.

Wii U footage is SO GOOD. I must have it...and a Wii U again down the line.

 

[qq more]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Desert level on the 3DS version. It looks alright though, no DIMPS-ish BS traps, but the pacing I'm not so sure about. Maybe it'll grow on me. Could be just the way the guy is playing it.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Desert level on the 3DS version. It looks alright though, no DIMPS-ish BS traps, but the pacing I'm not so sure about. Maybe it'll grow on me. Could be just the way the guy is playing it.

What truly is Dimps BS?

 

[Nocturnowl]

Having to wait around and stop the boulders on the switches as well as that whole block platform and switch gimmick being present for like the entire level also leaves me unsure about it.

What truly is Dimps BS?

Everything unique to their level design.

 

[qq more]

What truly is Dimps BS?

Cheap enemy/spikes/pit placement. I'm seeing none of that so far. I'm glad.

Having to wait around and stop the boulders on the switches as well as that whole block platform and switch gimmick being present for like the entire level also leaves me unsure about it.

Yeah, that's the thing I'm a bit worried about.


Also just watching Wii U footage... looks amazing.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Cheap enemy/spikes/pit placement. I'm seeing none of that so far. I'm glad.



Yeah, that's the thing I'm a bit worried about.


Also just watching Wii U footage... looks amazing.

To be perfectly honest, that showed up in the early games too. I remember Marble Garden Zone being particularly bad about that, remember the grasshoppers? And the springs that would lead directly to spikes? And nothing can match the death spikes of the original Sonic game.

 

[qq more]

To be perfectly honest, that showed up in the early games too. I remember Marble Garden Zone being particularly bad about that, remember the grasshoppers? And the springs that would lead directly to spikes? And nothing can match the death spikes of the original Sonic game.

Games will always have a bit of a flaw somewhere in the level design (I was never a fan of Metropolis Zone). Difference imho is that Dimps tends to do it much more often. Not to mention they have a fetish for bottomless pits.


EDIT: Oh shit, the end-of-act emblems from Sonic 1 makes a return in Lost Worlds?!

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Games will always have a bit of a flaw somewhere in the level design (I was never a fan of Metropolis Zone). Difference imho is that Dimps tends to do it much more often. Not to mention they have a fetish for bottomless pits.


EDIT: Oh shit, the end-of-act emblems from Sonic 1 makes a return in Lost Worlds?!

Honestly, they are an issue yes but it feels like if you get used to the trick actions they put in and put them to actual use, a lot of those notorious levels with death pits become less of an issue, I remember HATING Sky Canyon at first but after I tried it years later and used more of the trick actions and the like, that level was so so simple, I wondered why I had an issue with it.

 

[Dark Schala]

What truly is Dimps BS?

They forgot to talk about this, too.

-_-

 

[qq more]

Honestly, they are an issue yes but it feels like if you get used to the trick actions they put in and put them to actual use, a lot of those notorious levels with death pits become less of an issue, I remember HATING Sky Canyon at first but after I tried it years later and used more of the trick actions and the like, that level was so so simple, I wondered why I had an issue with it.

Well, actually, it kind of goes beyond the trick system. I've noticed in that half of the games Dimps has made, the cheap placements comes from not memorizing the level. I'm just not really a fan of that style, I kind of wish I was given a warning of an incoming spike/enemy/pit so I can get a chance of dodging them. It was very common in some of their games.

Though, I really wonder if the resolution was a big part of the problem in the Advance games.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

They forgot to talk about this, too.

-_-

You're gonna have to explain a little more than just a pic...I've forgotten where these guys show up...

 

[qq more]

You're gonna have to explain a little more than just a pic...I've forgotten where these guys show up...

Sonic 4 for the majority of the game. 10% of the game is spent you destroying a line of them. I feel it gets super stale because they hardly make actual interesting use of the idea.

Not exactly offensive level design thankfully, but I feel it's kind of lazy.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

Well, actually, it kind of goes beyond the trick system. I've noticed in that half of the games Dimps has made, the cheap placements comes from not memorizing the level. I'm just not really a fan of that style, I kind of wish I was given a warning of an incoming spike/enemy/pit so I can get a chance of dodging them. It was very common in some of their games.

Though, I really wonder if the resolution was a big part of the problem in the Advance games.

I always thought one of the tenants of Sonic games was trying to memorize the level. You memorize the level and you can honestly breeze past a lot of the enemies, spikes, pits or what not.

Sonic 4 for the majority of the game. 10% of the game is spent you destroying a line of them. I feel it gets super stale because they hardly make actual interesting use of the idea.

Not exactly offensive level design thankfully, but I feel it's kind of lazy.

Yea but while that stuff is there, I'm talking about the Dimps BS so I kinda don't see why Schala would bring up these enemies.

 

[Dark Schala]

Wii U prices are a little steep for my wallet right now (I'm saying this because I went to Best Buy to buy a new HDD for my PS3 and decided to check things out). 360's going to get a price drop later, so I'm holding off on that or getting a refurb because I just want one to play LO and BD.

One more thing I don't like: the super-peel out feet look ridiculous in 3D.

[EDIT] Don't get me wrong, by the way. Being comparable to Galaxy is probably a good thing. I just liked the Modern gameplay from Unleashed and Generations a lot, and I'm bummed they're already dropping it after two games.

I honestly thought that I was the only one who thought the Super Peel-Out feet looked super-weird and inconsistent after the first trailer! It's nice knowing that you feel the same way about it.

And I feel the same way with respect to the Unleashed/Gens play. Like someone else said, this is more of a sequel to Colours, so I wonder if we'll eventually get something that's more in the direction of Unleashed/Gens play.

Yea but while that stuff is there, I'm talking about the Dimps BS so I kinda don't see why Schala would bring up these enemies.

Because their level design hasn't been very good since theoretically Advance 2. It's generally sloping downwards, designing levels with pits and supplementing momentum-breaking bubble chains or boosters in general, a fixation on enemy beat-downs (ie: bosses and enemies shouldn't take that long to defeat, nor should a ton of enemies be in your way in general), and awkward hazard placement throughout the level. That's what led people to put those absurd hazard signs in Generations at times... when the level design should flow as opposed to coming to some sort of stop.

Point is, those bubbles decrease forward momentum.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Talking about that whole level design stuff up there...

I wouldn't slay a game for the odd sudden death pit (though this is mainly a Sonic issue due to the speed thing) or "gotcha!" moment but they always have to be pretty limited across the game.
Dimps design can stray into this territory far too often, while older Sonic games do have their moments in this regard (Wing Fortress cannon platforms leaps to mind for me) they tend to veer on a more fair side of things, in fact Sonic 2 outside of Wing Fortress is pretty easy all the way through because it doesn't really resort to cheap tricks.
Of course if you play a death trap filled level plenty of times you'll eventually be able to breeze through it aided by memory but one can't so quickly forget the first trips through these sort of stages where every cheap shot that kills you has another one just behind it so when you do pass it you then get sucker punched by shitty stage design once more.

Of course sometimes the level design is just genuinely difficult, I died tons of times playing CV3 last year but rarely did I feel the game was to blame and therein lies the difference. Simply put too many cheap shots just starts feeling plain unfair which in turn gets frustrating which eventually escalates to moments of FUCK THIS SHIT!

Seeing what qq said up there about visible warnings is an interesting point to make here as Generations warns the player of incoming pit areas, therefore you know what to expect without it just being sprung upon you, this works well enough to cover some of the issues.

 

[qq more]

I always thought one of the tenants of Sonic games was trying to memorize the level. You memorize the level and you can honestly breeze past a lot of the enemies, spikes, pits or what not.

True that you need to memorize the level to breeze through it. That's perfectly fine and that works. But IMO, getting hurt or dying just because you don't memorize the level design is kind of cheap. The classic and recent (non-dimps) games gives you a chance to realize there's an enemy/pit/spike. I feel that's a nicer approach than just running into a spike wall without warning. Like you've said, the cheap stuff sometimes happens in those games too, but they aren't so common so it doesn't bug me that much. As long as Sonic Lost World 3DS doesn't pull that often then I'll be down for it.

 

[Shadow Hog]

I will say that hidden cannon with the fake bottomless pit is just bullshit. At least use a ring to indicate that there's a secret down here and not falling to your death like all the other bottomless pits. Play DKC2, you fucks!

Was rewatching the footage. You come up on that pit at a curve, and the camera angle clearly shows the balloon down there.

 

[Dark Schala]

I think the signs in Generations are dumb.

This thing? You see this thing?

It should be obvious to the player that there's a bottomless pit in the area. In terms of level design, if it isn't obvious to the player that it's a darn bottomless pit, then there aren't be a bottomless pit there. Level tropes and level cues should make the player somewhat aware when and where there's going to be a pit, especially in terms of pacing the level out. It's almost instinctive sometimes. If you're in a hilly zone, there's going to be bottomless pits there. If you're in chemical plant, the water's toxic half the time, and the rotating/shuffling platforms are there to mess you up, so you know there's a bottomless pit there. If you're in Wing Fortress or whatever, you're up in the sky, so watch your butt.

It's these things that I like in terms of level design. Shoot, I think these things are unnecessary when the level is designed well, and adheres to the level's tropes.

qq, you design levels, tell me what you think. Put your game developer hat on and sound smart for a minute.

 

[tiggerkiddo]

True that you need to memorize the level to breeze through it. That's perfectly fine and that works. But IMO, getting hurt or dying just because you don't memorize the level design is kind of cheap. The classic and recent (non-dimps) games gives you a chance to realize there's an enemy/pit/spike. I feel that's a nicer approach than just running into a spike wall without warning. Like you've said, the cheap stuff sometimes happens in those games too, but they aren't so common so it doesn't bug me that much. As long as Sonic Lost World 3DS doesn't pull that often then I'll be down for it.

The classic ones or non Dimps versions often had instances where if you didn't memorize the level or didn't know what to expect, you were utterly hosed (Hello Mystic Cave). Sonic....shoot even other platformers are sometimes predicated on you getting to know the level or else you're screwed. I came from an era when we had Bubsy and that was literally a game where jumping up would get you killed so you sure as hell better memorize stuff! Yes Dimps gave us that GOODNESS AWFUL Episode 2 but I feel as while they're flawed, they get killed for too much at times.